OK guys, who is our resident authority on air compressors on Detroit's?? (700 something I think it is.)
PLEEEEASE lend me your ear...
As many of you know, I have had some issues with REI over a rebuilt compressor they sold me. (BAAAAD deal) Well, I FINALLY got them to send a replacement after many months only to put it on yesterday - and I believe this one is worse. Now, I know there is a possibility it could be me but, I can not imagine what it is that I could have done wrong. It was just a straight over swap.
I put it on yesterday and finally fired it up today. (dead battery) It took 14 minutes to get it to air up to where the buzzer went off. (95+ lbs. or so) It was probably 12-13 minutes to get to 90psi. It REALLY got slow airing up as it got up into the higher pressures.
My "original" compressor, that Dallas diagnosed and said I should look at replacing, was waaaaay better than this one and the first one I got from them was even better than this one! Now, I must say, I did air it up at a regular idle, not a fast idle as something is wrong with that feature. Do you think they could/would have screwed me again? I must admit, I read the guy (JR) his pedigree when the credit card company got the three of us together on a conference call. I tried to hold back but when he tried to make it out as "MY FAULT" for not calling them a FIFTH time well, I couldn't hold back. If this one would have worked, I would have probably even called him back and apologized. I still may if I find that I did something wrong but the reason I tore into him was for lack of integrity in customer service (calling back) not the workmanship as I am totally aware that things do happen. Anyway................
There is also a hollow whistle sort of noise coming from it and if I put my hand over the inlet pipe, it will suck it in but just barely.
So........ what can I do?? ?? ?? I'm at wits end with this whole deal. And trying to type all this out is driving me crazy!! >:( >:(
I appreciate anything any of you can tell me but, if one of you thinks you can help diagnose this over the phone, I will be more than willing to give you a call and let you hear the noise it makes or even talk me thru whatever could be the problem.
Thanx in advance. Sorry I am ranting.
Chaz
dumb ? there wasn't a shipping plug in intake you forgot to take out? I do stuff like that all the time Bob or a piece of packing material?
Ive heard of a over pressure safety valve going bad and causing symptoms similiar to this. I have no idea if that is what your problem is.
Good luck
Eric
Chaz is from Batesville is that close to you Eric? Might need some hands on help.
all I can say is you need to understand how to set the governor or the compressor will not charge properly....did you set it by the book?
Bob, Batesville is about 2 hours away but I will be in his neighborhood in two weekends for a race in Rushville.
A budy of mine also suggested looking at the governor. Did it come with paperwork on how to set it?
what about the govener mouted on the air compressor? just a thought.
Chaz try holding the peddle at 1800 to 2200 to build air without the fast ideal working. Try cleaning the contacts on the switch.
Make sure your Governor is set between 112 and 118 cut out PSI
Dave
QuoteChaz try holding the peddle at 1800 to 2200 to build air without the fast ideal working. Try cleaning the contacts on the switch.
Make sure your Governor is set between 112 and 118 cut out PSI
I don't have any electrical stuff on my compressor.
QuoteA budy of mine also suggested looking at the governor. Did it come with paperwork on how to set it?
It did not have any paperwork - either time - with it for setting anything up. Heck, I'm not even sure what the governor is! I'm thinking it is on the right side and has a valve stem on it. (??) But it doesn't seem to have any sort of way to "set it". Is this it?
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi58.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg279%2FSkulptor%2FMotor%2520Coach%2FDSC00259-1.jpg&hash=50e73c895d236b877ba218b645aa940510b98dcd)
This is the first thing out of the air compressor.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi58.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg279%2FSkulptor%2FMotor%2520Coach%2FDSC00261.jpg&hash=6a12dda9c0c458f0dfc66ad8fbc4037df9fc6331)
Could it have something to do with it??
I'm lost........
Chaz
Yes Chaz that is your governor. On the lower end it will have a plastic cap screwed on to an adjustment bolt.
Call me I'll do some esplaining. 731-986-fifty nine 99
;D BK ;D
Thanx for the phone call BK. But sadly, taking the hose off the exhaust side didn't really solve/discover much. As a matter of fact, I took the "L" off at the double male coupler on the compressor and put my thumb on it and could hold back the air for a couple seconds. It seemed to be able to build pressure but not cfm's. Very little air was coming out. Could/does the governor regulate that?? Could IT be bad and have something to do with that??
It still has that hollow whistle sound as well.
>:( Back to square one!!!! >:( The "REAL" square one - begging for help. :'(
Time for lunch and pondering.
google it/check your owners manual...untill you know your governor is good you can't really know if your compressor is good. basically without the right (air) signal from the governor the compressor will not pump air...ie if the cut out is set low (say 40 psi) you will not get more than 40 psi...also the the cut in could be set wrong. On my bus I can tell when my comp is pumping or not by the sound of the pump, it is more rackety when it is not loaded. Some call the governor the loader/unloader 'cause that's what it does.
You may have a problem with your discharge line. They are normally copper tubing or braided stainless hose. The heat from the compressor discharge will melt and harden the rubber inside the line creating a restriction. Remove your hose and see if it is still flexible, you can buy the correct style of hose at any truck dealer, they come in many different lengths.
Quote from: azdieselman
You may have a problem with your discharge line. They are normally copper tubing or braided stainless hose. The heat from the compressor discharge will melt and harden the rubber inside the line creating a restriction. Remove your hose and see if it is still flexible, you can buy the correct style of hose at any truck dealer, they come in many different lengths.
azdieselman welcome and think you for the idea. But that is exactly what we just discussed on the phone and he took that hose off and the compressor itself is not putting out good pressure to that hose. (and yes we discussed that it should be replaced with the proper hose soon too!)
;D BK ;D
Chaz,
I will call you back in a bit, you are right about time for lunch I have mine on the griddle now!
;D BK ;D
This may help
http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/haldex_d2_governor_service_data.htm (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/haldex_d2_governor_service_data.htm)
governors are cheap, I would just buy a new one for starters, especially as you have a new(rebuilt) comp.
Pull the govenor off the side of the compressor and make sure there is no 1/4 pipe plug in the unloader pilot hole.
The governor has a exhaust port make sure you removed the plug it will be marked clearly
good luck
I would have thought a 4108 and the 4905 used the same compressor with the governor mounted on a horizontal plane
Thanx guys. It's great to have all this info to come back to after lunch. :)
Again..... I'm no diesel mechanic, obviously, but the governor regulates the psi, Correct?? ?? ?? It seems that I am getting the psi needed, just not the cfm's to get me there faster.
Hargreaves - I'll pull it off and check. But, I kinda doubt that. Wouldn't that totally keep it from working?
Zubzub - Thanx for the link!! It gives me an idea of what I am up against. I think mine is serviceable so I might pull it apart and clean it out. But again, would/could that have a major bearing on the cfm's?
Azdieselman - you and BK think alike. ;D He was not a fan of the hose (hydraulic I think) on the exhaust side. I did pull it off and check it and it's not clogged. It actually seems fine but I'll look into replacing it. Oh, and..... Welcome!
My biggest concern it that if I take the gov. off and clean it - or even get a new one - that I get it set properly. The link tells a bit about it but......... it IS my first rodeo. ;D ;D
Thanx a boat load!!!!!!!!!!
Chaz
Looking at the photos to me it looks like the governor is installed upside down I never saw one on a GM with the adjustment on the bottom,fwiw I never seen the problems you guys have with a governor all the time they are a real simple design not much to one
good luck
it's more like the governor turns the comp to load mode until max psi is reached....then the comp is unloaded until you have used up the pressure (80-90 psi cut in depending on the bus etc..) then it tells the comp to load again.
Chaz - It sounds like you need more systematic troubleshooting.
If the unloader port were plugged, pressure would rise until system pressure reached relief valve blow-off pressure.
Restricted discharge will diminish performance. If the discharge plumbing is "coked up" that would do it. Worn compressors often pass oil which with heat the oil "cokes" discharge plumbing. Usually that also brings high discharge temperature, at even low flows.
Cracking the discharge line at the pump head and again further down the line, to compare flow rates, may help to pinpoint a restriction. For example, if while pumping, the system is at a low pressure, -say 30psi- but cracking a fitting gives flow velocity comparable to a 100psi system pressure, then it's a safe bet that a restriction exists downstream from that point.
As mentioned, a restricted intake will drastically cut performance.
Ted
Chaz,
Ted is right, as far as it goes. If I were you I'd disconnect the inlet from the compressor and adapt it to the shop air with a shut off valve.
If I recall correctly, there was a LOT of crud coming from your original compressor. There is a big possibility that the wet tank and maybe even the subsequent tanks are loaded with so much crap that the engine compressor can't function.
When was the last time you drained all the tanks? I know I didn't do it, and there was sludge coming from the engine shut down line and Skinner valve. (That's why I set up the easy pull cable to shut the engine down from the side of the bus). There was no time to find the problem with the Skinner valves.
If you want to, you can call me, and I'll walk you through cleaning all those air lines out. Just beware..... I'm going to tell you to get some air line antifreeze, about 2 gallons of it. If you can't get that, you'll need to get a couple of cases of rubbing alcohol.
My phone number is 843.496.9176 leave a message.... I give it out all the time and have learned not to answer..... it's amazing the spam you can get.
And for all of you that will holler about the alcohol killing the desiccant in the air dryer........... He ain't got one! Next caveat is the alcohol killing the air lines and diaphragms... it might, but those will be small easily fixed leaks and can be taken care of at leisure.
Good Luck Chaz... We're pullin' for ya.... Keep your stick on the ice!
Ok, since my last post, I pulled the gov. and opened it up......................................YUCK!!!!!!! Man, it had a bunch of crud - kind of on the harder side type crud - in it. I cleaned it out with spirits as recommended by the link.
I ran up to NAPA for a couple new O-rings. It had the green AC rings in it but I could only get the black ones in that size.... They didn't fit. When I put them on, the piston would not slide in so I re-used the old ones. They "looked" OK but...(??) I lubed everything up with Marvel air tool oil. (hope that works) Now I guess we put it on and try it. I'm hoping, however this thing works, that cleaning it might have helped. Like I said earlier, with both inlet and outlets open on the compressor, it didn't seem to have a lot of cfm. So would that have any bearing on what you are calling "restricted discharge", Ted?? I'm not sure how to gauge "flows" unless it's "by ear" or "feel". And the intake is wide open to the compressor. Only about a 3" tube between the intake and atmosphere.
Question: where the gov. is attached, there is 2 holes for the bolts and a middle one for unloader port. There is this same configuration on both sides of the compressor. "SHOULD" one side be plugged and the one, where the gov. is, be open?? I can stick an allen wrench 1.5"+ in the side where the gov. goes but the other side is in a bad place to be able to do that. (see pic.)
Thanx again guys!!
The one on the compressor side is open the outside is plugged 3 ports for the unloader 1 on each side and 1 in the middle
good luck
I think in the beginning he said it worked but just really slow. If that be the case. It should be installed correctly. hopefully the cleaning of the governor will help.
The "extra" governor mounting flanges are alternate locations so that the same pump can be used on various applications; the unused ports should be plugged.
If it's suspected that the governor is unloading the compressor partially, or early, then a performance test could be run with the governor removed from the pump. Of course there will be no unloading, so the engine should be stopped before dangerously high pressures are reached. Pressure rise of course will be no faster than if the governor would be in place, so there's no danger of sudden pressure spike.
I guess I can't describe an exact scientific way to evaluate the "fitting cracking" test, except to compare results to shop air velocities, which you may be familiar with. The poor flow while "idling" the open compressor is suspicious. But then again, flow volume at idle won't be spectacular. Inlet suction is a good indicator of pump performance, but, other than comparing to past experience of how much suction a pump places on a finger, I don't know how to describe a comparable. No chance that the shipping plug which robertglines1 mentioned was partially left behind? Sometimes the plug is paper.
FWIW, in the pictures it looks as if at some time in the past the discharge hose could have been replaced with smaller and more restrictive hose than OE design. In the picture it looks like #8 with a tight bend, if so, that's restrictive. Right now though the compressor should at least be able to reach past performance with that same hose.
Ted
also if there is so much crud in the line going to the wet tank that it is blocked, the gov will think it has achieved full pressure and unload the comp. That would be a lot of crud though. Hey maybe he is hydro locked with a wet tank full of sludge..
Y'all are all correct in the areas you mention. BUT the problem is the COMPRESSOR is not sucking in or putting out hardly any air!
He took off the discharge line and held his finger over the outlet and it hardly blew his finger off it and took like 3o seconds or so to build enough pressure to do that.
So checking lines, cracking fittings, and cleaning lines and tanks is not going to solve the problem until he gets air pressure out of the compressor first.
He did find one port that was missing a plug and plugged it and is now recharging batteries because they are down from the starting it and short run times he's been doing testing have not gave them time to recharge.
Some where there is a reason it's stopping the compressor from pumping as it should.
;D BK ;D
Those compressors have a port on each side to mount a governor I cannot tell because of the water line if the front is plugged or not
good luck
I just got done talking with BK a little while ago. He is correct with what he said except it only takes about 3 (three) seconds or so to blow my finger off. ;)
Zub - Hydrolocked, huh? Hmmmm....... I guess if that is a possibility, I can air it up via shop air and try to blow it. As Dallas mentioned, I need to purge the lines and tanks of crud. That system has been neglected for quite awhile before me.
QuoteIf it's suspected that the governor is unloading the compressor partially, or early, then a performance test could be run with the governor removed from the pump. Of course there will be no unloading, so the engine should be stopped before dangerously high pressures are reached. Pressure rise of course will be no faster than if the governor would be in place, so there's no danger of sudden pressure spike.
My guess is that the pressure would come up like a "good system" should, say, 3-5 minutes maybe?? Mine took 14 minutes.
The plug was just a piece of cardboard held over the ports with plastic inserts in the bolt holes. (they aren't plugged)
The discharge hose is 1/2" Weatherhead Air Brake hose. Not hydraulic line as we initially thought. Is 1/2" too small??
Since I cleaned the gov. it now has a leak around the big "C" ring opening where the guts come out. Looks like I need a new one now.
After the batteries charge awhile, I'll give her another go. My guess is, the same result as I really haven't done anything that seems to be "the fix" I was looking for. I'll post after I try it to let ya know , otherwise, I'll get a new gov. and then retry it. I will then probably come "begging" yet again. :-\
I have drained my tanks a couple times. I'm not sure which one the "wet tank" is or where. And that goes for the "skinner valves" as well. But I do think I will be bothering Dallas or at least someone on how to slick up the system. I know it needs it!!!
Thanx again guys.................
Chaz
The one between the 2 bolt holes on the front has to have a 1/4 inch pipe plug
good luck
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on September 05, 2011, 01:29:58 PM
Y'all are all correct in the areas you mention. BUT the problem is the COMPRESSOR is not sucking in or putting out hardly any air!
He took off the discharge line and held his finger over the outlet and it hardly blew his finger off it and took like 3o seconds or so to build enough pressure to do that.
So checking lines, cracking fittings, and cleaning lines and tanks is not going to solve the problem until he gets air pressure out of the compressor first. . . .
I guess I missed the finger-test description. Regardless, if the governor is unloading the compressor, there will be no air flow pumped through the compressor. So unless the compressor is tested while isolated from the system and governor, the "no air flow" condition doesn't necessarily indicate a compressor problem.
Ted
Chaz after reading responses and thinking 2 things come to mind.
One go ahead and turn the adjustment screw on the governor counter clockwise one full turn. (It can't hurt, & might help.)
Two try taking the return line (signal line, return line, what ever you want to call it, but the 1/4 line coming into the governor from the air system) lose from the governor. It could be plugged up and causing the problem. (I kinda doubt it and still lean toward the governor itself especially missing the cap & O-ring)
The wet tank will be the first tank in the system from the compressor and like I said b4 I don't know much about GM's except they put the motor in funny!
;D BK ;D
What is under your intake pipe? Do you have a reed valve? Check the intake poppet valves, maybe 1 has a broken spring. What is the part number of the compressor you have?
Chaz
Your wet/dry tank is located in the fuel tank compartment. The drain valves are quarter turn ball valves located on the after bulkhead towards the outside skin. Remember GM valves are backwards., inline is closed.. You might `even pull the lines at the tank bottom.
Can't wait to read the rest of the saga - the previous owner did it in the system with dirt. Stolen from CLUE without permission.
Good luck
Bill
No good. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
After 4 minutes I had a grand total of about 20 psi. The Gov. is leaking bad.
My next move will be getting a gov and seeing what that does.
Then the next will be blowing the tank (s). What tank is in the AC bay on the passenger side?? I don't recall the one in the fuel bay as the fuel tank takes the whole thing up. There is also one under the driver that I purge as well.
Thanx a million guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We'll see what tommorrow brings. (enough disappointment for one day) :-\
Chaz
has anybody checked the drive gears, the 2 piece drive gear will slip in itself. i have seen this a lot, will cause slow air build up,also hard to find.make sure driven gear is solid steel. whats the all rebult compressors are bad?
do you have an Air Dryer.....it will be the first MAJOR point of restriction.
A compressor operates continuously until it is told to stop.
The Governor is told by the signal line that the tanks have reached the set gov pressure.
In the air tank filling portion of the compressors job the movement of the pistons are essentially all that is in play.
The piston down stroke pulls air past the unload-er into the cylinder while also holding the discharge valves on their seats.
When the tanks send a pressure signal to the gov. the air pressure then tells the unload-er to not allow air to pass the intake valves (basically).
This then causes the two piston to push air back and forth from one cylinder to the other until the system pressure drops and relieves the pressure on the unload-er valve and allows the compressor to recycle the process over.
I would check or bypass my air dryer...alot will disagree BUT air dryers are for places where air lines can freeze or for people who don't drain their tanks DAILY or more.
The two "bolt" looking things on top of the compressor are the discharge valve "holders".....I< as in me< would get a BIG breaker bar and open them up, the discharge valves are nothing more than a thin square piece of metal.Take a magnet stick and take them out,if they are new they will not have a circle (about the size of a nickel) worn into it's face. IF you find that this circle is prominent on both sides,you have bought a paint job.<some rebuilders simply flip the valves over>
If it is ( a worn circle)on one side and you can "catch" a finger nail, it is probably not seating and this may indicate that your compressor is thinking it is in the unload-er cycle...in other words your compressor cylinders are primarily "swapping" air and not discharging it to your tanks at the CFM of your unit capability.
A human finger would be hard pressed to withhold/contain 2psi.
My bet is the air dryer or the discharge valves or discharge valve springs.
If it were the piston rings it might never get to 120-130 psi.
In the arctic (Alaska) we used cases of fuel deicer to flush oily air tanks...simply by filling the air line down stream of the dryer and the draining the air tanks, simply leaving the tank drain open over nite will let gravity drain any oily/water mix out of your tanks.
If you do this without pumping your brakes none of this deicer will get to your brake diaphragms.
We used HEET.(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kitchen-biodiesel.com%2Fimages%2Fheet1.jpg&hash=95427beaf539fe18fa5ffea3717047e1aebe30aa)
This may not help but was free and may give you something to scratch your itch with.....
And I am sure someone will tell me where I am wrong, but I understand me....
So CHECK OUT THE LINK>>Get some coffee.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:CSoawqvXRJoJ:www.bendixvrc.com/itemDisplay.asp?documentID%3D2383+bendix+tu+flo+500+troubleshooting&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiiU4AI8HbicY758-laCshjWFRySryloaurnjYP-wPJEVPTzcPEQLUJ2xKNSMFWgyB5meqye1EhsP1lceSzofijcFrP6i7Ii91AGgZPl-O1UdoBhRWhVqKsyEg2GIkhZ6IvhsqK&sig=AHIEtbRD-UP0wl2WTpByc39lA1CWWfR_7g&pli=1 (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:CSoawqvXRJoJ:www.bendixvrc.com/itemDisplay.asp?documentID%3D2383+bendix+tu+flo+500+troubleshooting&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiiU4AI8HbicY758-laCshjWFRySryloaurnjYP-wPJEVPTzcPEQLUJ2xKNSMFWgyB5meqye1EhsP1lceSzofijcFrP6i7Ii91AGgZPl-O1UdoBhRWhVqKsyEg2GIkhZ6IvhsqK&sig=AHIEtbRD-UP0wl2WTpByc39lA1CWWfR_7g&pli=1)
Get some more coffee,
http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/haldex_d2_governor_service_data.htm (http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/haldex_d2_governor_service_data.htm)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beamalarm.com%2Fimage%2FGovernor%2FHALDEX%2520D-2%2520Governor.jpg&hash=8d237e9d9fcd2bf45468ac8f4c21eb5d0ff777ac)
One thing I noticed is that he said his discharge line from the compressor to the bus is only a 1/2" line. I don't know the exact size but mine is closer to an inch.
Brian
Hopefully he will figure it out this what you get with a retort by the PO he is no where close to a OEM,the OEM compressors on that bus don't even have unloader valves you can work on from the top and they do have a 1/2 line coming from the center of the head so his line is OEM and is the right size but wrong type
good luck
All the governor does is regulate the on/off of the compressor-not the amount it pumps. If it is pumping and cutting out at around 120psi, then coming back on around 90psi, then the governor is working. The slowness of your compressor maybe caused by you mistakenly getting a turbocharged compressor. The turbocharged compressors have lower compression ratios (just like a turbocharged engine) and initially pump up very slowly. But when you're on the road and pulling a hill with full turbocharging pressure (the air compressor air feed line is on the pressure side of the air intake), the air pressure goes up very quickly from 90-120psi-like only taking about 20 seconds to refill.
Since you don't have a turbocharged engine, I would suggest taking it back and having a new one installed. Sometimes things like this happen.
On my Mercedes 300 turbodiesel, we went through 3 Bosch factory rebuilt starters before we found one that worked right (and that's taking it on and off the car everytime-luckily it was my mechanic and not me). Good Luck, TomC
Time for another pot of coffee...
http://www.tamesisriver.com.ar/PDF/Compresores%20Bendix%20Tu-Flo.pdf (http://www.tamesisriver.com.ar/PDF/Compresores%20Bendix%20Tu-Flo.pdf)
http://www.bendixvrc.com/ (http://www.bendixvrc.com/)
I think (and am trying to find) that DOT reg and proper installation of a compressor discharge line should never go "up" but always down and that for safety (heat/fire) related reasons the first pieceshould be Velvac or copper....
http://www.easternmarine.com/24-Air-Compressor-Discharge-Hose-142524-0/ (http://www.easternmarine.com/24-Air-Compressor-Discharge-Hose-142524-0/)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageserv8.team-logic.com%2Fstore-logic%2Fproducts%2F5%2F8484%2Fst_8542.jpg&hash=5f8fb5ab0375dfd8543b6f080f55f1b05008a74e)
this is pretty fancy new wave MCI but lotsa knowledge here...Maybe a two pot....
http://www.mcicoach.com/service-support/technicalTrainingWebinar/chassis101_110310/chassis101_110310.pdf (http://www.mcicoach.com/service-support/technicalTrainingWebinar/chassis101_110310/chassis101_110310.pdf)
Here's the Bendix troubleshooting guide - may help some:
http://www.bendix.com/media/documents/products_1/compressorsgovernors_1/troubleshootingguide.pdf (http://www.bendix.com/media/documents/products_1/compressorsgovernors_1/troubleshootingguide.pdf)
tg
Thanx guys!
I am going to go over all this - even tho I don't drink Coffee. ;D ;D If I need the boost, I'll get some Earl Grey. ;) (I just may! You sent a LOT of info!!! :o :))
I ordered a D-2 gov. that should be here tomorrow. It is leaking so I figured that would be as good a place to start as any.
Thanx again for all the input.
Chaz
air Govnors are just to darn inexpesive and important to mess with,NOT cost effective.... >:(
Man you guys have a lot of trouble with governors if they leak air from the exhaust port I change one that is about it for me they are so easy to maintain,they are part of your 6 months or 50,000 miles PM why wait till a 20 dollar item shuts you down I never will understand that part
good luck
Well, this is the first I even knew about a governor to be honest. I do not have the experience that most of you have but I am learning. It would have been nice to have all this knowledge before I bought a bus but..........
Like I have said many times, you guys are the only way I can own one. Thank you.
Chaz
Chaz, I hope the governor solves your problem but I have my doubts and fwiw I was not trying to single you out it is just every time people say change the governor.
I never have problems with one I have replaced very few over the years $1.38 and 5 minutes of your time you are good too go
good luck
Chaz, after looking at your air system a couple of years ago, I'm really trying to tell you to clean the gunk out of it.
The new governor might help it for a bit, but it's just a bandaid. You still need to clean out all the crud and corruption from the tanks and the lines.
The governor probably wouldn't have needed to be replaced if the lines were cleaned out before you had a problem.
I will bet you dollars to donuts that the next problem you'll have is going to be in the brakes or the wipers. If I lose, I'll send you a dollar, most likely a Silver Certificate. If you lose, you get to come down here and show some of these good old boys how REAL metal work is done! And you get to buy me a dozen donuts from our local Korean Donut maker!
DF
Quote from: luvrbus on September 07, 2011, 06:37:43 AM
Chaz, I hope the governor solves your problem but I have my doubts and fwiw I was not trying to single you out it is just every time people say change the governor.
I never have problems with one I have replaced very few over the years $1.38 and 5 minutes of your time you are good too go
good luck
I don't know that the gov. will solve my problem. I have no idea. But, it does leak (bad) so that is where I am starting. I figure it needs to be done first.
I guess I could hook up shop air (and maybe that is the best way ??) to clean my system but I'm trying to take this one step at a time so I can learn as well as know what it was that was the problem. The HEET stuff sounds good if I can't get airline anti-freeze. (I guess)
I'm also VERY interested in pulling those caps off and seeing what the discharge valves look like. I wonder if I will get grief when I send it back and he can see if they were opened??
I'll fill you all in more when I get the gov. on.
Chaz
Chaz,
Dallas is right on cleaning out the system now while you're do'n.
As for popping those caps off pop away my friend, he ain't gonna care as long as he gets the "core" back.
I ain't to sheer of those Korean donuts it could be a trick. Ya know "Charley always sneaky!"
;D BK ;D
BK, you need to be careful with that guy you open something up he is warranting he will charge your credit card lol been there done that with him and his secret little marks
good luck
been there done that with him and his secret little marks
So who would this be....i wanna be sure not to spend any of my $$$ there.
Quote from: luvrbus on September 07, 2011, 01:33:03 PM
BK, you need to be careful with that guy you open something up he is warranting he will charge your credit card lol been there done that with him and his secret little marks
good luck
Quote from: eagle19952 on September 07, 2011, 03:25:18 PM
been there done that with him and his secret little marks
So who would this be....i wanna be sure not to spend any of my $$$ there.
NO $#!% ? Wow what a piece of work this guy and his company REI are! I never have dealt with him and most likely won't either now knowing this! I mean after all what's the big deal in looking how it's built for future reference?
SORRY CHAZ DON"T LISTEN TO ME!
;D BK ;D
Ya know it's funny how things like this work out!
I just spent $3,330 dollars of a local church's $ this afternoon @ Welch Industries on a rebuilt 05G A/C compressor, new clutch, new high & low service ports, core, and S&H ($575 core refunded when I send toasted compressor back & they know it's locked up!)
I found online where I coulda saved $450 alone on the compressor from REI, but I already had a bad taste in my mouth for them from hearing Chaz's ordeal here with them, and others too!
;D BK ;D
OK...we're getting warmer.....who the heck is REI ?
Quote from: eagle19952 on September 07, 2011, 08:45:18 PM
OK...we're getting warmer.....who the heck is REI ?
It's who Chaz bought his compressor from.
http://www.rebuildersenterprises.com/ (http://www.rebuildersenterprises.com/)
And not highly recommended by most here on the board. (several lucky ones have had OK deals with them, but more have not!)
;D BK ;D
Should there be two lines on the Governor? One to the EXH. (exhaust port( and one to the RES (reservoir post) ?? One should one just be capped off?
No the exhaust port is open 1 line goes the reservoir the other to the unloder port
good luck
Three ports should be in use on the governor. one to the air dryer, one to the air tank and the exhaust port.
See the pic in the link: http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/haldex_d2_governor_service_data.htm
The reservoir ports are the ones farthest away from the plastic cap. There are actually three of them, you have to plug the two you do not connect a hose to with 1/8th pipe plugs. That port connects to your air system tank. The reservoir port is how the governor senses the air pressure in the system
The unloader ports are the middle set, between the two mounting bolt holes. You have to plug one, put the hose to your air dryer on one, and the final one is usually connected to the compressor by being bolted to the side of the compressor with a gasket if your governor is mounted directly on the compressor. The unloader port tells the compressor to unload and stop delivering air, and it tells the air dryer to purge.
The exhaust port is on the underside of the governor, there is only one, not three like the others, and you just leave it open, you don't connect anything to it and you don't plug it. Some installations you put a hose on it so it doesn't blow on anything important, but it is open to atmosphere.
So, you should have one line connected to the reservoir ports, and the other two plugged with pipe plugs, on line connected to the unloader port, and one plugged, and nothing in the exhaust port. Total of three pipe plugs, two hose connections, and the governor bolted to the side of the compressor.
Makes sense? probably not... Hard to describe in words.
Brian
He doesn't have a dryer he only uses 2 ports,his exhaust port should pointed down with it on the top as shown in the photos it will never stay clean
good luck
Thanx LUVR. I was just going to write that.
I have one hose connected, one port open and it's bolted to the compressor and an open exh. port.
I fired her up and it took 6 minutes to get to 80psi. 9min. 20 seconds to shut the buzzer off. That is about 95 psi or so. And about 16min. to get to max of about 120. That was all on slow idle. It still has the loud howl/hollow whistle noise coming out of it. Man, I wish i could find someone to hear it/check it out here. :-\ It still can't be right. But....... the next thing is to clean the system as was recommended. Maybe that will help in some way.
Thanx for all the help guys, I really REALLY DO appreciate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guess I'll just send the first exchange compressor back and chaulk it all up as lesson learned. :P
Chaz
Did you plug all of the unused ports on the governor? No leak at the governor anywhere? If it's making a howl can you tell where that noise is coming from? What kind of air cleaner does it have? No restrictions? Try taking it off and see what happens? If you take the discharge hose off, does the air output seem good? Does that change the noise in any way?
I am starting to be very glad when I got my new compressor it was a genuine Bendix rebuild - because I had no clue about any of this when I bought it!
Brian
Yup, all ports are plugged. No leaks. Noise comes from the inlet to the compressor (almost like it's pushing out as well as sucking in...sorta) No restrictions on inlet as I have it open to atmosphere. Discharge will push finger off after a couple secs. but little cfm. Noise does not change. That's the Cliff's notes version as I did all this and it's in earlier posts. But thanx for checking. Seems great minds think alike. ::)
I would be happy too. I'll not make this mistake again and, I am very hopeful others here will learn from my mistake. God knows I make enough of them.
do you still have the other compressor. or a differant one?
??? Not sure what you mean Bob, sorry.
I have the first rebuild I got from them, ready to go back. I also have the second one they (finally) sent as a replacement on the bus. That is the one I have been writing about.
(How was the "Frog's", Bob?) :)
little over 4200 cars. was thinking the other one you have you could take apart and look at to get idea or it might be better than new one.. by the way nice weather in 80's for frogs. Bob
Are the intake valves leaking?
Quote from: Chaz on September 09, 2011, 04:00:15 PM
. . . Noise comes from the inlet to the compressor (almost like it's pushing out as well as sucking in...sorta)
Time to check the check; check-valve, that is. After building a head of steam, with the engine stopped, loosen the discharge line to see if system pressure is leaking back towards the compressor.
So far, I'm not leaning towards a compressor problem. My hunch is that the first stop beyond the compressor, the cast manifold/moisture collector/cream separator, is crudded up.
Ted
For something that should be rather simple this is sure getting long. Im leaning with Ted, that sumthins amiss downstream.
But look at the bright side, your problem has everyone head scratchin, so were all going to learn something if we pay attention.
He needs to run the engine at 1200 rpm to check the compressor idling at 500 rpm the 750 compressor produces about 1/3 of it's rating, air up must have been a problem on his bus in the past or he would not have the 750.
Great thing about paying 450.00 for a Bendix rebuilt compressor he could go to a Bendix dealer and get answers,independent rebuilders use very few new parts if they do use new parts they are some kinda of after market.
I was told by a GM bus mechanic that a 4905 holds 16 gals of air if empty on startup
good luck
BK "Charley" was Vietnamese. Koreans were called Gooks short for Hanguk Americans are called Miguks(ME GOOKS)
Hmmm larn somtin nu avry da!
;D BK ;D