I don't have a spare $20,000 I read I should have on hand to recover from a big breakdown. As a result, I don't venture more than about 50 miles from San Francisco, where I live.
From what I've read, about the worst thing that can happen is for an engine to blow up, resulting in a big tow bill and the price for an engine and labor. Since the shop will know they have you in a situation, I presume this is not the time to negotiate price.
What seems unfair is that I can buy an entire RTS bus with a Series 50 engine for under $5,000 most months, on EBay. That bus would have whatever parts I might need while on the road. I wouldn't want to pay to store an extra bus on the off chance I might need the parts, but I do have room to store an engine in my garage, as I have a large two car garage. I could certainly fit 4 Smart cars in there. Would it make sense buy a bus and take out the expensive parts: the computer, the engine, a few windows, the windshields, and then put them on a pallet in my garage?
If I was far from home and disaster struck, I could just call a shipping company to go to my house to pick up the pallet. I presume if I have the engine, a shop would only charge a couple of thousand to swap engines. Is that about right?
I could scrap the second bus after taking out the good parts to recover some of my purchase price.
Is this all just crazy thinking?
Thanks,
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
Chances of completely blowing an engine and having to find a replacement is IMO, very remote.
More likely, a break down will involve smaller parts that aren't as expensive, and can be looked after on the road.
An engine is not going to totally crater so that you need a replacement shipped out. It will give you some warning that it is getting tired.
At worst, you'll be stranded somewhere waiting for a replacement transmission or rear end for a few days. Have good towing insurance.
Be diligent with your preventive maintenance at home, so that you know what you have for a road trip.
Drive the sucker across the country, via Alaska, LOL.
JC
Kevin:
I am thinking along the lines you are. Brian could not find a two stroke so he put in a Cummins M11. That is a great idea, but since I have zero talent, that option is not available to me. So I am kinda looking for a 6V92 silver, that I can have ready as a spare, just in case, and I do not want to have to find one in 3 days.
Chuck
I posted this in another thread, but here are a couple of 6V92's one could play with and stash:
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=604265 (http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=604265).
Please don't take this as a criticism but hopefully as constructive advice.
I am presuming most if not all of us are driving commercial buses rather than conventional motorhomes because they are significantly more stout and reliable. They will not only offer a longer life measured in hundreds of thousands (and maybe millions) of miles, but they offer significantly more protection in the event of an accident.
But their reliability is only as good as their previous maintenance and amount of use. If an engine is such that we lack confidence in it and are concerned about having a spare, my guess is the whole rest of the coach is in a similar condition. If that is the case before spending a penny on the house portion I would suggest efforts and resources should be put into the chassis, motor, transmission, differential, brakes, suspension, tires, etc. Unless and until I can have confidence in the reliability of the chassis there can never be a trip of any length in which I would be recreating. Just waiting for an air bag to let go, or a brake line to fail or an engine to overheat, or a transmission to fail I would be a nervous wreck.
It is one thing to be on a trip and have the house water pump fail or an AC to quit working. Stuff like that doesn't make us a danger on the highway and is an inconvenience. Issues with the drivetrain can leave us in the middle of a highway, a danger to ourselves and others. That crosses the line in terms of potential risk to ourselves or our family.
But to answer the question I seriously doubt a catastrophic engine failure will occur. The items I would most expect would be loss of coolant due to failed hoses, early warnings of potential problems like coolant of fuel in the oil, failed transmissions, or ruptured emergency brake diaphragms on coaches equipped with spring brakes.
It is a superb idea. The problem is KNOWING the condition of the engine.....for certain.
I would think that the concept of spreading the costs would appeal to some. Say 4 Knuts go in on a engine they share and make sure of the condition and properly prepare it for long term storage with syn fluids and lubes. Share all expenses and let the user that breaks his engine buy the others out when the time of need comes. Make the shares sale-able with the approval of the remaining partners and with clauses. Your risk would be reduced to 1/4 but your potential benefit would be 100%.
Don Fairchild, AKA The Don, comes to mind in this arrangement as the provider of storage and storage and prep. For a fee, now. Not suggesting he has adopted any of us or should. ;D
Make sure that one of the partners doesn't have a "dead but forgot to fall over" 8V71 with 650Kmiles "known".
John
John
Some buses have major components that are getting rare. On an Eagle, the big issue is the drop box and the rear end ring and pinion.
Our Eagle Chapter has a sort of informal supply system where we can get parts to a member reasonably quickly.
I think that having a spare engine is not a bad thought. There are failures that can put you in a real bind (failed injector taking out a valve or piston, for example).
You could look at it like you do insurance. Hopefully you will not need it. Maybe you can help save some stranded bus person.
Some people subscribe to the thought that if you make the effort to be prepared you will never need the part. In my case, Murphy is too close of a "friend" for me to believe that ;D
If you buy a bus with a good running system and take the time to strip off the useful parts, you can then scrap the rest of the bus from some pretty good $$$ Big project, but might be worth it.
Jim
Hey Kevin,
The way people talk about the bottom falling out on converted bus prices, just buy a standby bus. I second the tow policies. I just hooked up with coach net.
Glen
sounds like a good excuse to build hot rod engine! don't tell Judy ! 1000hp 60 series. Now which one to leave on the stand? All kidding aside. Know your engine. It is sad you here about failures on this board. I assure you it is only a fraction of 1 percent of the miles these guys drive. In several 100 thousand miles I have lost a fuel pump and had a few electrical problems. I do keep up on maintenance and and know my equipment. It happens and I could loose a engine any time but I know my bearing clearances and miles on oil change also keep a eye on slobber tubes on two stroke and listen for changes. Keep them happy and they are tough as nails. A engine co-op would work if spread out across country. I know several guys that have extra 2 stroke sitting. If you are concerned enough to not use your bus spend the $500 and have Detroit evaluate the condition of you engine.
Good advice Bob. I wonder how fast that bus of yours would move with 1000 hp?
glen
I was thinking along the same lines I found a bargain on a complete DD8V71 with a recent rebuild I was thinking about buying it crating it up ready to ship and storing it at a buddys business with a fork lift. Cheap insurance plus if I never had to use it I could sell it 10 years from now for a nicer little profit.
Happy Trails
Kerry
Has anyone hear from The Don. What would he charge for what services....inspect the candidate...store the crated engine.....lay it up for long term storage...ship it. I don't know what all might be involved let alone what the charges might be.
I'll bet that when he travels he has someone that can access the shop and all.....ya think? He just seems like the obvious choice to involve in this type adventure. How about the HTRN on the east coast. Choo Choo would seem to fit.
If we could get our arms wrapped around the cost to do this we might have a better chance of a "deal". It might be doable with two or four or six. This is contrary to the "spirit" that pervades this group in that we are comprised of frontier challenging entrepreneurial explorers and they don't "unionize" easily...if at all. The flip side is we are simpatico and prone to selfless assistance. Almost in conflict.
Ruminations, I suppose,
John
I should say that I believe my engine is in great shape. But I dread the thought of having to buy an engine on the road, where I might have to pay $10 or $15K for just an engine, when I can buy a whole bus for less than $5K.
At some point you have to give your head a shake and ask if this is an obsession or a hobby. For me, stashing rebuilt spare engines around the country, or in a warehouse, so that I can venture more than 50 miles from home, it's an obsession and I would run away and hide. I hope I would, anyway. I think my wife would make me. I hope, anyway...
I will never, ever, under any circumstances, need to have a spare engine in my garage so I can have it shipped to me.
Brian
Let nature take it's course.
The weak and infirm get eaten.
The strong and cunning have half a chance.
The rest is good fortune, nothing more.
If you have no stomach for it, sell the coach now and stay home.
Spousal unit will thank you!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Most of the failures ive read about here were with unknown engines, usually something recently bought and trying to get home. Or a first trip out after converting something with no history, and/or no maintenance. Its a recipe for disaster.
But surprisingly, most of those failures were not so extreme you couldnt have nursed it down the road a ways with some jerry rigging. The 71 series seems more robust in that regard, the 92 with wet liners, once they start leaking it looks like your done. But even that is rare and generally, and again, its older stuff with no records.
I think in many cases its too easy to freak out and find yourself at a shop far from home, and the next thing your talked into a big expensive job you didnt plan for. Logic suggests it would be wise to find a place to park and talk about it here first, before making any decisions.
Quote from: artvonne on August 18, 2011, 07:31:57 PM
. . . But surprisingly, most of those failures were not so extreme you couldnt have nursed it down the road a ways with some jerry rigging. The 71 series seems more robust in that regard, the 92 with wet liners, once they start leaking it looks like your done. But even that is rare and generally, and again, its older stuff with no records. . . .
Even though he's probably ignoring me and thus won't see this, I have to agree with artvonne. ;D
I've seen some terribly sick puppies crawl all the way home. Sometimes with practically a steady IV feed of oil or water to keep 'em alive, but they made it, and then the trucks were lifetime rust-proofed to boot. :D
With most engine troubles, it seems like you can always scratch around and come up with some workable solution. Especially the same person who's able to pull-off buying a spare bus, dismantling it, and having parts on the ready for shipping.
Although a spare diff or trans or drop, when one shows up at the right price, probably isn't a bad investment. With some driveline stuff, if you have to "buy it now" you can really be on the hook. And of course driveline may be more practical to store, ship and field install than an engine too. So if I was going to spend parts "insurance" money, driveline is probably where I'd invest it.
Ted
Trying to keep a engine in reserve to ship if not specific for your model bus would be a nightmare Don I don't think would touch that.
So many different configurations for bus engines buy the time you changed everything over you could have yours out and rebuilt ask Brian lol
We do have a small network for Eagles parts drop boxes rear gear and etc but no engines to ship no 2 engines are the same in that group I can tell you, raise the skirt on one of those old girls no telling what you find could be a 650 hp series 60 to a 160hp 6v53 lol
If engine failure happens it happens not a thing you can do about it could happen in your driveway or 5000 miles from home,just control what you can in your life let part you have no control over slide has worked for me lol
good luck
Quote from: luvrbus on August 18, 2011, 08:04:25 PM
Trying to keep a engine in reserve to ship if not specific for your model bus would be a nightmare Don I don't think would touch that.
So many different configurations for bus engines buy the time you changed everything over you could have yours out and rebuilt ask Brian lol
We do have a small network for Eagles parts drop boxes rear gear and etc but no engines to ship no 2 engines are the same in that group I can tell you, raise the skirt on one of those old girls no telling what you find could be a 650 hp series 60 to a 160hp 6v53 lol
good luck
Or a BIG OL' YELLA CAT!
;D BK ;D
BK our pal Sonnie has a small kitty now, Mel has a C15 in his Eagle big kitty there lol
good luck
i found a bus that looked just like mine on the outside, said it had a good 8v92 with maintenance receipts, good rubber, but only partially finished inside. Bus bathroom and a small kitchen area with 2 sleeper sofas.
on ebay for just $15k. i was ready to buy for a spare. put a tow bar on it and pull it behind. if "Just Cruisin" failed, just rotate it to the back.
Momma said NO!!! Loudly.
Honey, can I buy another bus or maybe build up an engine to ship to myself?
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi582.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss263%2Fboxcarokie%2FDSC00796.jpg&hash=eecbc47cbc29d2f3c219c30ae9002dcbc92a2aed)
Now that is funny ... no really ... that is REALLY FUNNY ... ship it to myself.
That is almost as funny as all those nimrod's over at Off Topic at You Can't Fix Stupid commenting on something that isn't even there ...
Have a good weekend (or don't it's your choice).
BCO
Quote from: boxcarOkie on August 19, 2011, 01:45:19 PM
Have a good weekend (or don't it's your choice).
BCO
Well I am retired so not only do I NEVER get a day off but I keep forgetting it is Sat or Sun and I can back off a touch and relax. Every day is a good week-end.
Thanks for the kind wishes, though,
John
Quote from: JohnEd on August 19, 2011, 02:34:40 PM
Quote from: boxcarOkie on August 19, 2011, 01:45:19 PM
Have a good weekend (or don't it's your choice).
BCO
Well I am retired so not only do I NEVER get a day off but I keep forgetting it is Sat or Sun and I can back off a touch and relax. Every day is a good week-end.
Thanks for the kind wishes, though,
John
As long as you are "on the right side" of the dirt, that is all that matters. I ran into a guy not long ago and he said, "What's up?" and I said, "I just got back off vacation." And he looked at me kinda funny like and said, "How do you know when you are on vacation and when you are retired?"
Good question eh?
BCO
just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. It was a good topic, you aren't supposed to delete topics anyway it's against the rules here.
Nimrod
Quote from: bevans6 on August 19, 2011, 03:20:08 PM
just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. It was a good topic, you aren't supposed to delete topics anyway it's against the rules here.
Nimrod
You aren't supposed to hijack 'em either ...
Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there? The comments didn't even relate to the subject matter. I understand what you are saying, in the future, I will just "
edit my stuff" as I see fit and that way I don't break any rules. It is there now, in all its splendid glory, go chew it to pieces, have at it.
End of story.
BCO
If you read some of the problems the owners of new grossly overpriced S&S are having and the problems they have getting mfgs to make good on their warranties you would realize our buses do very well without those real big investments.
I just returned from a 5000 mi trip in my 4107, first one since I bought it in Dec '10. My genset failed and I had to get another used one. It was 24 yrs old so what could one expect? I had a couple of other minor problems which I took care of myself.
I drove the 4104 for five years and put 64,000 mi on it. Every long trip I made something broke or failed. What could one expect with a 53-56 year old bus? The last trip I blew the front main seal but kept pouring oil into it and made it 150 mi home. It is now for sale but only because at my age I need AT and full time PS.
I've been lucky in that every problem or failure was near a repair place or I could fix it myself. I've never used road emergency service except to get information on repair shops.
The point is, if you're afraid to venture far in your bus, you're missing the most fun part of all and many adventures to tell your grandbabies!!
The very first trip I made in my bus was driving it 1,400 miles to home. The first camping trip I made was 4,000 miles round trip. I'm planning to drive my bus nearly 5,500 miles before Oct 1st. No real worries about any drive train problems.
Quote from: gus on August 19, 2011, 06:17:59 PM
The point is, if you're afraid to venture far in your bus, you're missing the most fun part of all and many adventures to tell your grandbabies!!
Some people cant afford some of the adventures they read about. Some people cant fix too much themselves, and so are dependent on shops if the worst happens. And reading of shops that are less than helpful, getting into full overhauls, it does make one ask some hard questions.
I dont know about too many Buses, my MC5, IIRC most figured 13 hours to remove the motor. You can then plan on another 13 hours to put it back in. At $100 hour thats almost $3000 to R&R the motor without doing anything to it. I seem to recall hearing 4 to 5 hours to pull a GMC sidewinder. Your still talking $1000. IIRC, Jumpsuitman got out of Williams for about $4500. I dont know how a spare motor sitting at home would have saved him any money.
But in his situation, I honestly believe he could have limped it home and fixed it at his liesure. In fact, his situation taught me a lot that could be done to keep one hammering toward home.
There will always be failures we cant foresee. We could rebuild and overhaul everything, replace it all with brand new, and still have a major failure simply because we are human, and things we make, break, and sometimes when its a bad time. Like when the Challenger launched that day.Or when the Columbia came home on another day. We flew a Beech Debonair around for an hour running in a freshly, completly overhauled engine, and it froze to a stop 5 minutes after we parked it when a lead plug came out of the crank. A Bus could do a lot of bad things, but I can absolutely assure you, that you will never have to worry about landing it into a freshly plowed field at 80 mph when the engine throws a lead plug out of the crank and the engine siezes. You also wont ever have to worry about the intake choking on ice and trying to kill your engine while your flying low over trees.
"The point is, if you're afraid to venture far in your bus, you're missing the most fun part of all and many adventures to tell your grandbabies!!"
Hear - Hear. We take our grandbabies with us most of the time, so they already know about "fun issues" with a bus, you make a good point.
BCO
Quote from: TedsBUSted on August 18, 2011, 07:54:24 PM
Even though he's probably ignoring me and thus won't see this, I have to agree with artvonne. ;D
Why would I be ignoring you?
Quote from: artvonne on August 19, 2011, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: TedsBUSted on August 18, 2011, 07:54:24 PM
Even though he's probably ignoring me and thus won't see this, I have to agree with artvonne. ;D
Why would I be ignoring you?
Why wouldn't you?
Okay, it was a joke.
But yes, trying to second guess the Fickle Finger of Fate can be futile.
Ted
Quote from: TedsBUSted on August 19, 2011, 11:15:56 PM
But yes, trying to second-guess the Fickle Finger of Fate as to what may fail is almost futile.
Ted
I am truly amazed things work as well as they do, as long as they do. For every disaster or tragedy there are millions of succeses, but not many see those. we sure freeze when we see stuff break though.
I remember this friend, we were talking about stuff, airplanes and things, getting scared. He brought up how when we were kids and went on rides at the fair or carnival, we just went and had fun, didnt think anything about it. But at 40 or 50 we start looking at the bolts and pins and stuff holding the different contraptions together. How safe is a roller coaster? For all the people that ride them day after day, hour after hour, the accident rate is almost nil. But all we gotta do is see one plunge off a track somewhere and it scares us half to death.
Probably the same with big Bus repair bills. EEEK! Dang, were all probably really nuts to drive these things very far.
FWIW I have always had a spare engine in the garage for my old cars and vans. I have never once needed to use one, I just pick them up when I see one for free or close to free. The provide a certain piece of mind for me. But then I always seem to be driving high milage vehicles (my last van had 445,000 kms on the clock when I sold it) and my "new" one has 405,000 kms (but it came with a spare 220,000 kms parts van). Those might seem like crazy figures, but I see VW T4s for sale round here with 600,000 kms plus on the original drive train so I'm good for now. If I had room to store it, I would probably pick up a spare 6-71 (uh oh I just realized i do) just to have a spare head etc...around.
I would say 85% of engine failures are drivers error here where I live we have some good climbs out of this valley and you see it almost every day here in the 110 degrees weather the old buses setting on the side of the road with oil and water pouring from the engine, enjoy your bus just drive it right for the conditions, ask Van lol
good luck
Clifford I have to agree with you totally on that one. I have a friend with a 4905 and he grenaded 3 engines in about a year and a half. He just puts the hammer down and goes as fast as he can, usually about 70-75 mph. On my last trip of 300 miles, ambients were mid 90's and to maintain 70-75 to keep up with him, I had to use the misters quite a bit to keep it under 200deg. I usually run 60-65, at which I only need the misters on long steep grades. This last trip I actually ran out of water and ended up having to slow down anyway. Next time I'll just tell him "see you there". I don't need to go that fast anyway.
Thomas,
Aren't your misters fed by your freshwater supply? What is the gallon per hour or minute rate of consumption for your misters?
Have you looked into water injection to reduce the engine temp? Your findings?
Do you happen to know what the condition of the three engines was that were grenaded? I heard that BK! I meant before they were grenaded. :P
Thanks,
John
My misters are fed from my fresh water supply, which was maybe 2/3 to 3/4 full, I am guessing around 80 gallons was used. I had .1 gph misters but they plugged last year and I removed them and never got around to putting them back in, so the "misters" as of right now are simply 1/16 holes in the piping. 6 on each side. That equates to a lot of water. I have a mist water filter that I need to install to keep the hard deposits from clogging the outlets, then I can replace the mister heads. I just never worried about it much because they are rarely ever used, accept for this last trip because of trying to keep up with my buddy.
as for water injection, I really don't have an overheating problem. This trip was different because I was travelling with someone who thinks speed limits are optional. I generally maintain an average speed of 62 to 65 mph, at which I never need the misters unless I have a long hard pull. If the ambients are say below 90, the misters don't even come into play.
The first engine he blew was old and tired, and blowing copious amounts of oil out the exhaust. He had a rebuilt 8v71 put in, and a few hundred miles later blew out 3 pistons. Got that fixed, some months after that he found out just how hot a detroit will get before it lets out all the steam. After that, he had a 6v92 with a v730 dropped in. Still waiting for him to blow this one. Some people have no business owning a bus. He's my good good friend, but some people just don't learn. He is used to driving his class a with a 300 kat.
Mechanics can generally get much more service life out of engines than non mechanics.
Bad mechanics are a dime a dozen.
Crooked mechanics are even more prolific, but most crooked mechanics are actually very good and very intelligent mechanics. I guess it just proves you gotta be good at something to know how to screw people at it.
A friend took apart a Ferrari engine and found someone had welded a hole in the top of the piston. If your mechanically inclined at all, think about that. It was done in place. And it was done to make money.
Being out on the road we are all at someone elses mercy if we find ourself in unfortunate circumstances. Knowing even basic mechanics can save you a lot of money and BS. I hear so many say they are not mechanically inclined. Well, it can be learned by anyone with normal intelligence, you just have to try. Certainly we arent going topull the head off a Detroit by ourselves, but between some studying and knowing who to ask, we can figure out if we need to or not. We can figure out if the engine runs welland is safe to drive. If we learn enough we dont have to be afraid to drive it. But the same could be said for ignorance. If you dont know what you dont know, your likely to learn the hard way. Youll be the guy by the side of the road watching your motor goup in smoke, and wont have a clue whats wrong with it, or why it happened.
Okay, maybe I need to explain myself. I agreed with having a spare engine, why? I have an early serial number 6V92, it would be a waste of time for me to rebuild it if something unfortunate happened to it. I know that at times you can buy entire buses for scrap and perhaps get an silver block engine for not very much money. But those opportunities do not happen often and I guarantee they would not happen when my engine failed. So I want to be ready, at minimal expense to be able to replace my engine when necessary.
I am not afraid to drive my bus, you have seen pictures of me camping in the middle of the winter in Montana, so not paranoid, I just want to be ready if something bad happens. I think it is call preparedness.
Chuck - who changes his oil way before necessary, has his bus safety checked by C&J bus repair yearly, manually shifts his Allison to avoid lugging his engine, and will never turn down a chance to go somewhere.
I can see your point owning a green engine,but this all started with a guy owning a 4 stroke series 50 a modern engine I don't think he ever got his answer lol but he would be wise a few parts for those will cost him 3 or 4 grand a rebuilt ECU alone for him would be over 2 grand and head would be 3000
good luck
We were racing at Waterford Hills outside for Detroit years ago, and a friend of mine dropped a valve in his Mini. It was a big weekend for him, it was a Trans-Am reunion race, his car had run in Trans-am back in the day, so he wanted to fix it. He pulled the head, the local welder wandered by and said " I can weld that hole up for you" "Yeah, right, so could I if I had my shop here" Local guy pointed over to the trailer parked no more than 50 feet away down the paddock - "Shop's right there" He welded up a 1" diameter hole in the piston, head back on, won the race, and left it in for the next race just so he could talk about it (he could talk your arm off...).
Brian
If I had the cash for a second engine I would buy a 12.7L non EGR Series 60 and replace my engine with something bigger. I don't know that I would keep my old engine.
I seriously considered buying Ken and Ruth's (ruthi) Series 60 they bought out of a wrecked Setra, but it would have cost me as much as the engine to get it home plus at least that much again in parts and labor to get it running and installed.
Nothing wrong having spares, good idea even. But if your afraid to go anywhere for fear of trouble, having spares probably wont change anything.
Quote from: boxcarOkie on August 19, 2011, 01:45:19 PM
Honey, can I buy another bus or maybe build up an engine to ship to myself?
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi582.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss263%2Fboxcarokie%2FDSC00796.jpg&hash=eecbc47cbc29d2f3c219c30ae9002dcbc92a2aed)
BCO
Don,
That face cream you started using seems to have worked wonders. I, for one, would never have recognized euw. Nice pic and congrats on robbing that cradle.
John
I don't under stand what the problem is, I used to bring two along just in case ;D Cheaper than towing a spare bus along Lol!
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi457.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq292%2Fcwvanhagen%2F4-15-09triptokansas-denver008.jpg&hash=b8940a5a1a02262f3b0b1994b3e110791aba4d1f)
So whats a good price for an 8V71 these days? There was one down south of me out of an MC7, the guy wanted $1000 for it complete with an allison 740, but I wasnt in a situation where I could leave and I missed it. What would work in an MC5 without a lot of work??
I think that is fare core value, give er take a few Duckies
van
Its seemed fair to me, I just couldnt get away at the time, and it went pretty fast. Maybe next time.
Anyone know, does an MC6 or 7 use the same engine as an MC5, same angle to the left, same cradle?
Quote from: JohnEd on August 20, 2011, 02:46:03 PM
Quote from: boxcarOkie on August 19, 2011, 01:45:19 PM
Honey, can I buy another bus or maybe build up an engine to ship to myself?
BCO
Don,
That face cream you started using seems to have worked wonders. I, for one, would never have recognized euw. Nice pic and congrats on robbing that cradle.
John
CBS said this morning that sales of "anti aging face cream" will increase from $80B a year to $114B a year due to the fact that most baby boomers are now aging. Gives new meaning to the word revitalized doesn't it. Next month I am going for "Sexy Hair!"
Yeah, uh huh, sure.
That child is my sweetheart, my co-pilot, my parsimonious grocery shopper. She is a hoot. Oh by the way, she was also Made In China.
BCO