Plus extras. . .
http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0411/22_million_pricetag_for_Obamas_new_armored_buses.html (http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0411/22_million_pricetag_for_Obamas_new_armored_buses.html)
http://www.hemphillbrothers.com/ (http://www.hemphillbrothers.com/)
He should be riding in a school bus.
How much armoring can you really do with a total budget of $1.1 million? Isn't the shell alone like $500,000? Then you have the cost of a normal conversion on top of that.
The real cost of these buses will probably be hauling them around. The president's vehicles are normally shipped on a cargo plane wherever he goes. I'm pretty sure the military has a plane big enough to hold a bus.
Who says Hemphill is buying new shells probably just rebuild a couple of their H-45's they have and re title as new,I with you Boomer maybe a Jeep to save money
Quote from: Boomer on August 15, 2011, 08:03:55 PM
He should be riding in a school bus.
"A short one."
BCO
The buses are brand new and have the Volvo engine. All black, no markings but stobe lights front and rear. One of the new ones had a problem and it was serviced at Prevost in Nashville when I was there for some training and they had secret service guards around it every hour of the day.
The shell probably had a cost of $550,000 or more depending on options.
Seems to me.... That The President of The United States should not be driving around in a bus not built in the U.S.. But I guess that's just the way SOME people roll.
Im torn. On one hand I can see the need, on another it seems frivolous. On the one hand the POTUS needs protection while carrying out their duties as POTUS, I just dont know where the line ends when they start going out on the campain trail to serve themselves.
I think they should at least have to pay the real costs of using it, as well as pay the full costs of security, when they are self serving. Just like AF1, the Pres Chopper, and the whole gaggle of junk that transports the POTUS, when he does his own thing it should be on his nickle.
Quote from: artvonne on August 16, 2011, 04:01:12 AM
Im torn. On one hand I can see the need, on another it seems frivolous. On the one hand the POTUS needs protection while carrying out their duties as POTUS, I just dont know where the line ends when they start going out on the campain trail to serve themselves.
I think they should at least have to pay the real costs of using it, as well as pay the full costs of security, when they are self serving. Just like AF1, the Pres Chopper, and the whole gaggle of junk that transports the POTUS, when he does his own thing it should be on his nickle.
Not torn at all... Campaigning should be on their dime and the bus is clearly a campaign tool... Just like
SOME people... Tool that is.
I guess he's thrown the state of IL. ahem, under the bus. By not buying a pair of MCI J4500's from the IL. based company.
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on August 16, 2011, 04:11:00 AM
I guess he's thrown the state of IL. ahem, under the bus. By not buying a pair of MCI J4500's from the IL. based company.
That.... is not all that has been thrown under the bus
Quote from: paulrobie on August 16, 2011, 04:00:21 AM
Seems to me.... That The President of The United States should not be driving around in a bus not built in the U.S.. But I guess that's just the way SOME people roll.
Seems to me the President of the United States should be "made in the USA" too.
The was a bus-related storyline on 'The West Wing' once when the opposing parties were campaigning against one another:- one side made a big splash to the press about the fact that their opponents were 'Un-American' because they were using Canadian-built buses. Only to realise later that their own buses were also Canadian.
I doubt that a $1.1m bus can really be 'armoured' in the proper sense. The amount of work that goes into a genuinely armoured car is immense, and to do the same to something the size of a bus would surely cost a lot more than $1.1m (and the end result would weigh about the same as a railway locomotive). 'Armour' can be anything from fitting a set of lexan windows to full ballistic hardening on all sides, plus hermetic sealing & air supplies in case of chemical attack etc. And then the vehicle gets beaten by a minor bump in the road and everyone looks very foolish.
Video of Obama 'Beast' Cadillac limo stuck on ramp in Ireland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BvABn7L_So#)
Jeremy
Yup, I agree with Jeremy. I seriously doubt that it is really armored. It would weigh a inordinate amount, if so. I must admit, my first thought was that 1.1 mil each was a little low.
But they probably don't have to worry too much about weight issues. Methinks they wouldn't be hassled to much with pulling through weigh stations ;D. Some coop officer comes out and says, "I am sorry, but you are overweight. You will have to lighten it up, before you can proceed. Here is your fine." ;D :D ;D
John
Yeah Airforce 1 has to be armored to a point as well. But then again, if it had as much armor as the secret service would like, that 747 would never get off the ground. It would be interesting to see what these 2 things look like inside.
The article says that additional work will be done by the secret service after delivery, just like the houses the presidents live in after they leave office. I expect that the real money will be spent there.
One of those buses will be used by the republican nominee as soon as they get Secret Service protection.
If the president really needs protection on his trip, he could have gotton one of these.
http://www.mcicoach.com/media-center/2011-08-05-la-county.htm (http://www.mcicoach.com/media-center/2011-08-05-la-county.htm)
I understand anyone currently in office who is campaigning and gets Secret Service protection has to pay for use of planes and other transportation based on what an ordinary citizen would pay. If it costs $1000 for a first class ticket from DC to San Francisco then the campaign pays $1000 each for the president and those accompanying him for campaign reasons. Presumably he would he would pay for use of the limo based on car rental rates and use of the bus based on charter costs.
It would be a serious handicap to the sitting president if he/she had to pay the full cost of using government transport for campaigning. I doubt there would be much support for just letting the president have no security during a campaign and moving around like other candidates.
Yes, I know some wouldn't mind to see the current president without security, but what if the next president was someone you support?
Does anyone make a coach bus in America? MCI and Prevost are made in Canada. Isn't Setra made overseas? Silver Eagle doesn't seem to be making buses.
The President probably doesn't actually spend much time in the bus. His real transportation is via normal Presidential secured transportation. They probably stop a couple miles from the destination and move him to the bus. The bus is really a short-term campaign prop and maybe a mobile office (although the expense of outfitting it with secure comm would be more than the cost of the bus.) Probably light armor if any. My guess is that Hemphill is not an approved vendor for armoring a vehicle for the federal govt., much less the Secret Service.
They are using ArmorCore for skinning and bullet proof glass and no Trent told me they did not pay a 1/2 million each for the shells they will still have the prevost roof and front and rear caps that is about all he would tell me but the price is not a fix price probably will cost more.
And FWIW they have 2 with the Armor Core siding in their fleet now leased to the government and they are building 2 on the X3 chassis for some mid eastern prince
Obama will not always be in office so across the board Secret Service should be enforced otherwise, we change the rules as we go along and we can't set that as a standard(even though Obama does this all the time). MCI's are built in Canada but at least they are based in the USA so that's as close we can get. Other than skoolies, the only buses I can think of that may built here are are some of those rental car shuttle buses that you see at airports such as ELDORADO NATIONAL. GILLIG is built in America. There was a company called SBM that built a limited number of over the road buses built on FREIGHTLINER chassis while they mostly built double deck sightseeing buses that had the front cap of an MCI E4500. Their website doesn't seem to exist anymore so unless that changes, I think they are now defunct. There are a bunch of bus builders that use FREIGHTLINER chassis many of which can be used for over the road but I have heard mixed feeling about their overall quality. SILVER EAGLE has their website up but they have said that new specs are coming soon for about 2 years now.
Might first thought is (and I'm still not convinced other wise) that Hemphill didn't buy or pay for the chassis at all, but rather ordered what they needed and the govt picked up the tab!
Then Hemphill has a blank canvas to start with and a blank check to go with it!
Jeremy I love the video of the pres limo getting high centered on the ramp! That is awesome and shows that Obama is not all "brotha" or he'd had "bags" on that ride and coulda raised it to clear the ramp! LOL! ;)
;D BK ;D
Total waste of our freaking tax money!! This guy doesn't have a clue. On the other hand, they will be for sale at a government auction in the near future.
They'll likely be sold off at some point years from now. Most likely though, they'll be stripped clean of the armor, communications equipment, and furniture. But hey, whomever ends up with these things can HOPE to find CHANGE in between the cracks. :)
We started out with a President who was a General on the front lines of our Colonial Army, who stood beside his fellow men taking shots from the British, freezing and starving with them in the woods around New York, trying to eat his food with wooden dentures. I really think the guys who founded this country, who willingly pledged their fortunes and their sacred honor to fight for it, would be appaled at what we have turned the Office of the President into. Does anyone think it was safer for a man to expose himself in Public 200 years ago with everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, walking around armed with pistols?
Let him buy his own damn Bus like anyone else who wants one. We did.
I just heard it's the "One Nation Under The Bus Tour" also the bus is dubbed as the "Death Star" from Star Wars :o
Quote from: van on August 16, 2011, 05:10:43 PM
I just heard it's the "One Nation Under The Bus Tour" also the bus is dubbed as the "Dark Star" from Star Wars :o
On da road agin ... on da road agin ... Okay, here you go. Aw, what is a bus or two among friends, c'mon.
I believe that there are two forces struggling to dominate this country. Reinvention and nostalgia. The first seeks to imagine and work toward a better future by changing the status quo. The second insists that things were better in the past and works to undo change (any of the above would certainly qualify). Oddly, the opposing forces have come to be represented by colors. Blue and red. It's no secret where my sympathies lie (you will most always find me in the gray areas).
As I've always been a big fan of reinvention. My life is a testament to it. There is simply no way that a scared, sickly, vaguely educated white pasty faced kid from the middle of a Johnson Grass Prarie in Oklahoma gets to live the life he's living now without being willing to scrap old, unworkable ideas and start over
(Of course it also helped that I didn't have a rosy past to feel nostalgic towards).
Which brings me to the point. I'm confused by people who seek to return to a life that wasn't that great to begin with. Oh, I get it if you used to be the ruling class. If your childhood memories include watching your granddaddy sip a mimosa on the veranda while being serviced by the upstairs maid, then sure, nostalgia makes sense. But, if you're like me and didn't know anyone who had a veranda, let alone a maid, let alone an upstairs, then why not consider reinvention?
Maybe we can make this country a better place to live. It's certainly a more exciting way to go. You know, an uncertain future, filled with mystery and adventure. Of course, if nostalgia wins the day, if we are to attempt to reverse the course of history, then I will do my best to cooperate -- starting with buying me a bullet proof Prevo with smoke black limousine acrylic windows and hitting the campaign trail in 2012.
He's most likely going to pay for it with his spare "change." (oh, I think I just hurt myself!).
BCO
Debt Man Driving??
They could have used this one on his tour and nobody would ever suspect that it was the president.
http://www.photosbytomandpolly.com/zenphoto/cache/urban-landscapes/WBR%20Home/wrd%20bus.jpg_w800_h600.jpg (http://www.photosbytomandpolly.com/zenphoto/cache/urban-landscapes/WBR%20Home/wrd%20bus.jpg_w800_h600.jpg)
Well, it is a flat nose.
Im smart enough to know the BigBlackBus wasnt Obamas idea, it likely wasnt even his followers idea. We have these government entities like the secret service, DEA, IRS, etc., who no longer need ask for things they want, they can simply request it as appropriations and they get it. Gulf Stream jet aircraft? Sure, why not. Likely the Buses are a drop in the bucket compared to the materiel and infrastructure they have aquired, and being the secret servive, they can keep a lot of it secret under the guise of national security. It might be our money, but once they get their grubby hands on it they can just blow it to their hearts content. I mean, who doesnt want to protect the POTUS? Well, sure, we wanna protect him or her, but shouldnt their be limits on the expense? Shouldnt their be some level of risk that we can accept? I mean, I doubt anyone smart enough to wanna be Prez is ever going to be dumb enough to go riding through a major city in an open convertible again, right??
I agree and I only posted that old skooklie as a joke. I don't like Obama but I would not wish him ill or dead and since he is president, he automatically gets this protection and don't begrudge him this. But you are right in that there is a fine line between providing extra protection and just foolish excess.)I'm sure Obama didn't complain about having to ride on that handsome PREVOST XL or that 747) This bus thing is very close if not over that line. The cries for impeachment would have been louder if "W" had done this since the press hated him. Always remember that presidents can only serve 2 terms so we can't change the core mission of the Secret Service just because we like or dislike the current president.
As I understand it, buying these buses is actually cheaper. In the past, the government would lease buses and then spend a ton of money installing communications and security gear and then restoring the buses when they ended the lease.
Seems that I may have created a stir.... When I first noticed it was a Prevost, I sent an email to the editors of The Blaze regarding an American President riding around in a Canadian built bus with links to the relevant info. Low and behold, they did a story on it today.
Hey, all you Obama haters, give it a rest.
If these had been for George there wouldn't have been one complaint!!
This is supposed to be a bus board, this garbage isn't about busses!
Ride him around in your bus Gus and save us taxpayer some bucks
Fair enough but this is about buses abeit indirectly. I don't want to make the moderator mad but I'll just say that we had to put up with constant bashing from the left for 8 years over trivial things in many cases. Now your guy is in their, nobody can say anything. Indeed, back to buses.
Actually, it's directly about buses.. Nothing indirect at all.
But then, isn't that the lefty way, change the subject when they have no argument and the discussion is about their guy. Oh.... and bring up Bush. Can't forget to bring up George Bush.
OH LOL!
I really think George and Barack are related ! How could they not be? Just look @ those EARS on bof of 'm!
Bawahahahahahahhahahah!
OK I'm going to duck now!
;D BK ;D
Now that thar is just too funny! ;D ;D
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on August 17, 2011, 01:49:41 PM
OH LOL!
I really think George and Barack are related ! How could they not be? Just look @ those EARS on bof of 'm!
Bawahahahahahahhahahah!
OK I'm going to duck now!
;D BK ;D
Ok, I laughed my as$ off for the day.... thanks!
Just look @ those EARS on bof of 'm!
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi582.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss263%2Fboxcarokie%2Fimages-5.jpg&hash=23c7977c7a7a1e7455b8d0251f453c25b0cee37a)
Gawd Bless Texas
;D
That's the way to do it. Some of us may disagree on politics but at least we can laugh at ourselves instead of acting like little kids fighting over the last chocolate bar. So true about Bush and Obama and their ears.
Quote from: paulrobie on August 17, 2011, 10:06:13 AM
Seems that I may have created a stir.... When I first noticed it was a Prevost, I sent an email to the editors of The Blaze regarding an American President riding around in a Canadian built bus with links to the relevant info. Low and behold, they did a story on it today.
Did you suggest another USA made coach they could have purchased? Probably not, because I'm pretty sure no coach bus is made in the USA. If I remember correctly MCI coaches start life at the plant in Winnipeg and then are transferred to Pembina, North Dakota for final completion.
If nobody makes something in the USA I would much rather they buy from Canada than from China.
Quote from: belfert on August 17, 2011, 04:26:51 PM
Quote from: paulrobie on August 17, 2011, 10:06:13 AM
Seems that I may have created a stir.... When I first noticed it was a Prevost, I sent an email to the editors of The Blaze regarding an American President riding around in a Canadian built bus with links to the relevant info. Low and behold, they did a story on it today.
Did you suggest another USA made coach they could have purchased? Probably not, because I'm pretty sure no coach bus is made in the USA. If I remember correctly MCI coaches start life at the plant in Winnipeg and then are transferred to Pembina, North Dakota for final completion.
If nobody makes something in the USA I would much rather they buy from Canada than from China.
Somebody, somewhere, in the USA must make a motorcoach suitable for the Potus.... Not necessarily a bus conversion per say but an American made product he could use, (since i doubt he's like, actually using it for anything other than rolling into a town.... not like he and the family are out camping in it or anything... right?)
Don't be to tough on him the bus does have the piece of crap D13 engine built in the USA lol
If you were buying a bus for your conversion would you choose a fiberglass shell on top of a Freightliner or Spartan chassis or a real bus like an MCI or a Prevost? I guess they could have used a transit bus as they still make those in the USA. They probably need all the bays for communications equipment and a generator and batteries to run it all.
Hundred amp Clifford?
They could of bought him a new Dina. They are still produced in S. America ! LOL!
ducking again! LOL!
;D BK ;D
I thought they were building Eagles over in Oklahoma? What about a Newell or something? Surely someone in this freakin country could build a one off custom coach for the Prez for $1.1 million.
I wouldnt have a problem with an MCI, its more American than anything else on the road.
Like I said, MCI is based in IL. That's Obama's home state. If they replace Airforce 1 with a non BOEING(Chicago based) aircraft, then we'll just confirm that he doesn't show loyalty.
Most of you American bus nuts have foreign buses, (except Eagles), so what is wrong with your President using one?
Just to stir this pot a little, LOL.
JC
I doubt that the President is the one who decides what brand of plane/bus/limo is going to be used. :)
Silver Eagle is based in Tennesee now. My understanding is they haven't produced any buses since they moved from Texas. Everybody wants the government to cut spending yet they want government to order a completely custom bus just to have it made in the USA and it would probably cost more to boot. A lot of vendors charge government extra because of all the extra red tape to sell them anything.
At one point the Air Force was seriously considering an Airbus as a replacement for Air force One. The issue was that Airbus makes a larger plane than Boeing. If they went with something like an A380 they would restrict the choice of airports. The 747 can land at more places than the A380.
Could it be as simple as going with the lowest bidder?
Ours is a Belgium built Eagle, with a USA drive-train. So there ya go! ::)
Quote from: Len Silva on August 18, 2011, 08:14:07 AM
Could it be as simple as going with the lowest bidder?
Don't government request for bids almost always take the low bid all other things being equal? I don't know if there are preferences given for made in the USA. I remember when the Pentagon wanted to order a whole bunch of berets a number of years back. The only manufacturer that could meet the deadline was Chinese. I don't recall if they ended up buying them or not.
There are plenty of manufacturers who have right on their website the specific terms to put in a bid request so only their equipment will meet the requirements of the request for bids. If the Secret Service specifically wanted a Prevost and not just a coach bus they could have made the requirements tailored so only a Prevost would qualify.
You got it Belfert the suppliers for government contracts use the agency's guide line and write their own specs were only their products meets the spec and the amount is not written in stone either never saw a government contract that didn't have a cost overrun clause in it we will never know the true cost of those buses
good luck
That may be true Ed but Obama could have pushed for an MCI J4500 shell even if the Secret Service wouldn't budge. Regardless of who holds the office, they do have a bully pulpit and could put pressure on them and if he still came out short he could have held his head high and tried to come close to "Buy American" as possible and give a plug to IL. Oh well, at least it wasn't a SETRA but then again, I don't think they are offered in shell version nor VAN HOOL. If you go to MCI's site, the D series is "Buy American" compliant. But the D is not available as a shell either. SILVER EAGLE...well who in the heck knows what's going on with them.
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on August 18, 2011, 09:30:50 AM
That may be true Ed but Obama could have pushed for an MCI J4500 shell even if the Secret Service wouldn't budge. Regardless of who holds the office, they do have a bully pulpit and could put pressure on them and if he still came out short he could have held his head high and tried to come close to "Buy American" as possible and give a plug to IL. Oh well, at least it wasn't a SETRA but then again, I don't think they are offered in shell version nor VAN HOOL. If you go to MCI's site, the D series is "Buy American" compliant. But the D is not available as a shell either. SILVER EAGLE...well who in the heck knows what's going on with them.
I hear yeah there! Heaven forbid they by something of quality! ;)
;D BK ;D
HEHE or the last of BCI FALCON 45. Seriously though, I thought SETRA's were highly though of. Depends who you talk to huh? NEOPLAN USA buses were built here but I have heard mixed feelings about them too.
Do you really think that President Obama had any idea what brand of bus he was on? I don't think he is a busnut. I would venture that 98% of the general public would not have any idea about who manufactured whatever bus they were looking at.
Here's a nice looking bus. He could have chosen this one.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.ecvv.com%2Fupload%2FCompany%2F20095%2FChina_Zonda_Auto_Group_Tourist_Bus_Coach_City_Buses_Intercity_Mini_Coaster_Bus200951210115310.jpg&hash=30375df92562b9bc71f8e4eab16cb32c0d3b40eb)
That looks like a SETRA in Europe. Or is it? You're right, he probably doens't nkow or care either...BUT WE DO. :)
Actually, it's a Chinese made Zonda.
Quote from: Len Silva on August 18, 2011, 10:04:28 AM
Actually, it's a Chinese made Zonda.
Len ya beat me too it I was just fixing to say that is one of those Chinese knock offs of a Setra.
;D BK ;D
Here's one that's apparently built in America that the President and First Lady can sneak away go by themselves. http://www.stallionbus.com/images/home/stallion-900.jpg (http://www.stallionbus.com/images/home/stallion-900.jpg)
I don't remember any Bush bashing on this board during his eight years?
I remember a lot of Clinton bashing during those eight years though.
As much as I love this board I get the impression that it is about 95% right wing. I think most moderates are too timid to speak up against the constant right wing tirade, but I'm too old to let this junk go unanswered. If nobody speaks up this stuff from Fox and Rush will be accepted as the truth.
The worst part is that most of the attacks on Obama are personal (Racial?). Wonder why that is??
Unfortunately right wing politics has gotten really nasty and is getting worse as '12 approaches.
It would be really nice if all you guys could drop politics and racism from this BUS board and concentrate on BUSES.
You are one funny guy Gus you bashed Bush on every move on different boards now we are racists because your guy is black,he could call himself white stupidity is just not a white or black issue and most of it cannot be fixed
good luck
Quote from: gus on August 18, 2011, 11:30:57 AM
The worst part is that most of the attacks on Obama are personal (Racial?). Wonder why that is??
It would be really nice if all you guys could drop politics and racism from this BUS board and concentrate on BUSES.
Gus, Look. I get REALLY tired of all of the "if you don't like Obama, then you are racist stuff." Puhleese! Is that the best you can do? I don't give a single red penny's thought, about a mans color. I would have voted for an ethnic man any day, over McCain IF, and again I say IF, the man had morals. McCain was simply the lesser of two evils. I won't go into all of it now (since as you said this is a bus board). But Obama sure pretends not to have any morals (I won't say what I am talking about either, to keep from starting another debate).
When you guys start all of the racist stuff, that makes me wonder who really are the racists. You all are the ones bringing it up so much, I am starting to think that you guys are the racist ones. If you are not, then please come up with something better than that.
You said that it would be really nice if everybody quit talking about politics and racism (look who's talking about it, you brought it up...). I think that would be a great idea. Why not follow your own advice?
Btw, I sure haven't heard much to tell me that the "right wingers" are too wrong.
Mods, sorry. If you want, feel free to kill my whole post. I just get tired of hearing about all of this stuff.
Btw, Cliffords and my posts just crossed. I agree with him. Call it whatever, but stupid doesn't change.
John
This topic is locked until further review by the Moderators.
Paul