Hello everyone!
First, a little background information. I am a Boy Scout in Nebraska who is currently working on my Eagle Scout project. A church I work with offered the project of painting their old schoolbus from yellow to blue. There is a catch though. One side of the bus was near a burning building and as such, the paint is charred on one side.
I chose this forum because the people here seem to be very well informed about buses. Also, all the car bodyshops I visited in my town recommended I try the internet for my specific questions.
So, here goes.
1. Can you paint over burned metal? One of the gentlemen at the car bodyshops said you couldn't and I can't find any information about it on the web. If you can paint over it, would you just sand off the charred paint first?
2. Is it possible to use a roller to paint a bus? I found websites that claimed to use a roller and websites that recommended a sprayer.
3. What sort of protection do I need? Facemasks for personal protection seem obvious, but I do not know about environmental protection.
4. Is there an online resource I can use to determine the kind of paint I would need? I am aware you need different kinds for different surfaces and temperatures, but I haven't found any resource that lists them.
I appreciate all responses!
Thank you in advance,
EagleS
I'm not a paint and body man but I don't see why you couldn't repaint the bus. You will most likely have to remove the charred paint in your prep. Your paint supplier can give you good advice here.
You can paint it with a roller but it will not look very good. Rollers leave a pattern that is visible. You want a pattern free, smooth finish. You could paint it with a brush, or sponge too but I would use a gun. A decent paint gun will go a long way toward making a good looking paint job.
If you use automotive paint you will need at least a cartridge type respirator and possibly a fresh air supply respirator. Some of the paints that are available can cause permanent lung damage and collapsed lung. Again your paint supplier can help you here. You will also want a tyvek suit too.
I would recommend that you find a paint and body guy to help you in your project. He will have the tools available that you will need as purchasing everything can get very expensive, as can the paint and other chemicals that are needed. If you want to learn to shoot the paint, go to a junk yard and get a body panel, and some "mistake paint" from the paint shop and practice. You will soon get the hang of it. This is a very big project for a first time experience but not impossible with good guidance. Others will chime in with more advice. Good luck with your Eagle Scout.
I would definitely use a spray gun. It is easier, and possibly faster.
Also, If cost is a factor, I would consider using Rustoleum. $23/gallon at Lowes, and then you reduce it with Acetone I think. I don't recall the ratio, but that's cheap painting! This may also be advisable since the thing is charred.
The paint suits are nice, but you could just wear old clothes and throw them away when done. If you spray, you will get overspray on you. If you wear glasses be sure to remove them, or wear an old pair, as you will get paint on them too unless you wear a safety shield of some sort.
Remember this too. Unless you're lucky enough to have a huge bus barn, you will be painting it outside. If spraying be considerate of any other vehicles, buildings or property in the vicinity. No need to get paint on them too!
Recently, I used Duplicolor paint shop to paint a corvair van. I liked the simplicity because there's no mixing what so ever. You stir it up and spray it. Well, it is Laquer. It has a semi gloss finish. In order to get it to shine you have to rub it out and clear coat it. Now, think about that in terms of the size of the bus. That's a lot of rubbing! For this reason I cannot recommend that product for this application. Good luck with the project!
Boyce
I watched a man paint a car with a brush and thought what an idiot! Had to eat my words, when he was done it did not look bad!
I believe in the early days of auto's all cars were painted with a brush? Also in the 50/60's there were special paints available for painting a car with brush.
Tractor Supply Co. sells a reasonably priced paint. Valspar tractor and implement enamel. They also sell an additive for it which makes the paint easier to brush and leaves less brush marks. I think they call it a hardener? I used this once to do my wheels with a brush and was very impressed with the results.
Brushing is doable, but if the funds are available spraying might be a good learning experience.
I would be tempted to make up some slingers and post them on local church bulletin boards asking for help.
Burnt metal? Is a subjective description, if you could post a picture would be helpful.
HTH JIm
3.5 gals Rustoleum and 2 brushes.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NPvEc0kOqBg/TeqwVtYDbpI/AAAAAAAABFw/ombAa9oU8dM/s640/060411153538.jpg)
Being a Scoutmaster and Just getting my son to complete his Eagle this last winter. Points to remember... It's not your work. It's the coordination of your volunteers work, the funding for the project, and the documentation of the project. As far as painting a bus... Sanding and surface prep, Lots of manpower required there and plenty of opportunities for your help to "Help out". Sand, Strip, or clean off all the burnt paint. The unburnt paint can be roughed up either by 360 or finer paper or scotch bright pads but only after treating with some kind of prep. Not that the church bus was ever waxed but to remove anything that could effect the new paint such as grease or oil before being ground in to the paint that will stay on the bus. After Prep and rough up, Mask anything you don't want painted. Then spray per mfg of paint directions.
My $0.02
Brice
I know I will catch a bunch of slack here but..... You can roll on tractor paint and make it look decent. Do the neccessary prep as mentioned. and thin the paint a little.
I have even used gas (yes gas) to thin the tractor paint from tsc. I have rolled, brushed, and sprayed it using gas. On a regular size car it will be dry before you make it back around the car if donE out in the sun on warm metal.
THIS IS NO WAY NEAR THE PROPER WAY!!!! JUST IS MY WAY!!! ;D
last post is right. you can roll on paint and make it look like its sprayed on. the man next to my property had a contract at a big food store here to paint all the railings and some other stuff and they specified that it not be sprayed. I cant remember which roller covers he used, but he mixed his reducers and hardner just right and used their color of equipment enamel and did the work. The finish looked as if it was sprayed, but it took him a long time.
And even though gasoline is a very bad reducer now with the alcohol in it, you can still use it to reduce the mix for your equipment. One of my friends used it on his 68 Camaro last fall just to see if it still worked... I wouldn't use it, but there is always the sandblaster...
I've used foam rollers before & have had great results with rustoleum. The worst merely resembled a slight "orange peal" - which could have been minimized if the paint had been thinned a little.
With the roller, you don't have as much overspray. ;D
Eagle projects are about the candidate demonstrating leadership, not what you do or the task. This sounds like a GREAT project that will provide you with plenty of opportunities to lead others & show your leadership skills.
If you to spend some time to develop a nice flier describing your project, you will be surprised at the results when you use it to solicit donations of time, skills, supplies & donations.
Send it in an email to local businesses & churches. You will be amazed by how many Eagle scouts are out there willing to help.
(Don't forget the restaurants, your helpers will need to eat!)
Best of luck!
Kyle,
(An Eagle scout since 1979)
If I had to do it outside I would maybe prefer rolling, as I think spraying might pick up dust etc in the air and blow it onto the surface. I have rolled a few cars and vans in my day....never looked as good as I wanted but never looked bad and always fooled folks 'til they looked close. As far as prep in concerned roll or spray is almost the same as rolled needs to be taped off as well to speed up the painting. I've used rustoleum as well, and even oil enamel house paint. Since the prep is the big part I would do all that outside then find an interior barn/whatever to do the final coats. I rolled a car once outside and had about 50 little midge flies in my final coat. They liked the smell I guess.
Finally do not use regular masking tape to mask it off....the sun will bake it on and it will never come off....(ask me how I know) Use the blue (not green) tape it is the least tacky and it will bake on as well so try to have a quick turn around.
I think i should try rolling a vehicle instead of spraying like i have done for 50 years. Reason being, as long as the paint was really thick, it should color sand down to a glassy finish, like i do when i color sand a spray paint job. With thick paint and my normal body equipment, i dont think it would take any longer than the normal spray work, because the starting grit is usually 600 machine work.
Thank you all so very much! I am amazed I received so many responses in so short a time! In the back of my mind, I worried I would not get any input at all. What a silly thing to worry about now!
I am carefully reading all the responses for tips and information so I can put together new questions for you wonderful folks!
A couple of notes:
I am going to see how much funds I have before I commit to either rollers or sprayers. I'm leaning towards rollers, because I think it is more realistic, but I won't rule out sprayers.
I am going to visit some local paint shops to get their input as well, I can't believe I had not thought of them before.
I am going to put up fliers and send some emails to gather support and supplies for my project. I had not thought of doing this before!
I would like to thank you all again! It means so much to me!
If someone has any other thoughts to add, please feel free to respond!
Thank you!!
EagleS
If you do go with a roller. Does the bus have rub rails like mine? If so, there is not too much you will be able to use a roller on. Just a heads up.
Hi EagleS: Congratulations on working toward your Eagle, I also earned Eagle Scout, but unfortunately I turned 18 before the time I had to wait between awards and was unable to accept it. Hope you have better luck. Everyone here has given you some great advice, but I think some of them have forgotten the amount of skill involved to run a spray gun, it becomes second nature and is a great skill to have, but it takes lots of practices. My advice would be to go the brush, or roller route. I think the end result would look much better because you run less a risk of getting runs and sages. The majority of your time will be prepping for paint. The side of the buss that had its paint blistered and scorched may have suffered damage from the heat, which will cause the metal to warp. This will be difficult to repair and I would choose a paint color that will not show it as much. A dark color will show surface imperfections in greater detail than a light color, white is the best color to hide damage and black will make every little imperfection stand out, also a high gloss will accent damage more than a semi gloss, or a mate finish. Depending on how badly warped the metal is, your best bet might be a mate, or flat color. You do not have to remove all the paint, but you will have to remove all damaged paint on the burnt side. The rest can be scuffed up with some 240 grit on a DA sander. An electric hand held will work well if you do not have access to compressed air. You will have to prime any spots that go down to bare metal and you cant leave any uneven surfaces, anything you can feel with your hand or fingers will show, you can not fill anything with the paint. Yea you will have a lot of sanding to do. I would suggest you find a good book on body work. You could try Eastwood.com I haven't read any recently, so I cant recommend anything currently in print. I would recommend what is called a single stage enamel, the rustoelum mentioned in a previous post is a good example. Also any rust will have to be removed, if you just sand it down and paint over it, it will come back, you must get it all. If sanding does not remove it, try a wire brush, it that wont get it you may need a grinder, or sand blaster. The grinder will be more accessible, but any rough grinding marks will have to be filled with body filler and sanded smooth, to do this well is also a skill that needs to be developed, but a good auto body book will fill you in on what you need to know. Good luck on your project and keep us posted on your progress.
por15 works good over rusted areas that are wirebushed n still a bit rusty... i have used it for probably 24 yrs for some customers. course it still has to be topcoated
I have painted alot over the years worked on many eagle scout projects as well. You have many options. The first thing you should do is wash it done with bleach water this will remove any wax or grease do this first if you don't you will sand that right back into the paint. I would strongly sujest rolling or brush the top no one will see it anyway. Spray guns are cheap now and use less paint. You can rent or borrow a compressor try a rental place maybe the will donate it. Single stage enamel is a great idea rule of thumb is 2 parts paint to one part reducer.Old ref. boxes are a great place to practice you can you colored water to get the motion down. Overspray and dirt will be a problem if you don't have a barn to paint but you can buy rolls of thin plastic and with rope make a spray area the dust because of static elec. will want to stick to the plastic. Disconnect the battery and drop a chain from the frame to the floor this will also help with dust fat spots roofs top of hoods is were this is the biggest problem.Feel free to Email mail and we can talk on the phone and get into more details.It is not that hard and have showed a few of my scouts how to do it. A good book I think bondo use to sell one and many of paint companies have videos check with a local high school that has a votech maybe can recuit some vol. to get practice. I not saying I am the best in the world but did have one on DuPont's paint calender.Thank's feel free to email and get # Richard
Interesting. I haven't seen bleach dissolve grease, but I've seen it cause immediate rust. How do you rinse it out of blind rivets and overlaps?
I have always washed it good and wiped down with prep-sol. Mineral spirits works also.
When I wash with bleach water it is about a qt. to a 5 gallon bucket wash with a long handle rv brush and rinse with water just like washing normal never seen instant rust maybe high acid water don't know that is a new one on me yes there is many poducts out there just for this reason but this is the cheapest and has always worked for me alot of thinners reducers what ever they tend to make the existing paint sticky and the rag stick esp. if you use a colored rag heck you can wash it with comet and sand at the same time spray the windows with pledge shoot let dry good wash and go seen that done on many old farm truck. Richard