Can you afford a bus ?
Over the years of reading posts here, we occasionally read someone make the comment that if you don't have the money to do the project, or the available cash to replace a motor, you shouldn't be in the "bus hobby". Well, I'm here to say that I can't afford a bus. If my motor goes, my bus will be down for a long time. If I blow a tire, its going to kill my budget to spend $300 on a new one. If my tranny goes, my bus will become a semi-permanent fixture in my driveway till I can scrape together enough money to repair it. But, I love my bus.
When we first bought our bus, we scraped together enough money to go to Nashville to look at it. It looked like a bus to us and we were very excited. We had done our homework and looked at all the "problem area's" with good results. It was as close to seeing a real bus that we had been in the year of looking and I'm sure we looked too excited. Everything went well until we took it out for a ride. It only went 54 mph due to a governor. We ended up using the money we had saved for fuel for the return trip to rent a car and get home empty handed. The up side was that we had met some good folks the we trusted to help us get a bus. The bus went to a Nashville Detroit diesel shop were a chip was supposed to be replaced to remove the governor at a cost of $350 and aprox two weeks time. This worked out for us as we needed that time to scrape that money together. When the job was done, we sent the money down and the bus was picked up with the new chip. We got a call from the bus dealer telling us it didn't work and the bus was still at 54mph. The bad news was that the dealer did the work as promised of replacing the chip and would not budge on the price.. Ya, lesson learned.
He told us he had another bus that was straight and in good shape and was not governed. He also had a driver that wanted to go to Toronto, so if we got him there from our house, he'd bring the bus up for the cost of fuel. We trusted in the dealer, sent down a check and we were on our way. We made arrangements for the bus to come up in a couple weeks to allow us time to save the money for fuel and we were on our way. The bus arrived a few weeks later and ran out of fuel in our driveway as it was backed in. Sooooo, we saved for a few more weeks and started hauling fuel in 5 gal cans. With the help of members here, and 20 gal of fuel, we were able to prime the fuel and we were off and running.
We stripped the interior and scrapped the alum and steel. We got enough from that to fill the fuel tank. With our empty tube and a full tank of fuel we were off and running, and this time on the road! We have followed the advice of Jack Conrad and have taken the bus out once a month no matter what state its in. We started out with a big empty tube with sheets for walls to where we are today at a working but nowhere close to finished conversion. We have traveled with family and friends and have had the time of our life. We have held parties and gtg in our driveway and we camp at the state campground a few miles up the road. We replaced the starter last week at a cost of $250. Could we afford it or was it in our budget ? Nope, but luckily and coincidentally we had scrapped parts from the a/c earlier in the week, so we had a little extra money. I guess the underlayment for the floor can wait. With the cost of fuel, we are doing a lot of close to home camping trips but we are loving our bus. We were blessed with a mechanically sound bus that has new brakes and runs great. It needs paint and a ton of other stuff that we can't afford to do now, or even in the near future. We really want to make it to Acadia with our bus, not just a car, but we'd like new tires before we make that trip. 2 more months and the credit union no longer has an interest in the bus and we can apply that payment to purchasing tires. Fla for 2012 / 2013 rally!!!!!
Can we afford our bus ? You bet we can. Its been worth every penny we've spent and every drop of sweat we've put into it... And if it breaks, once we get it back home, we'll work on it and enjoy it in the driveway till we can afford to get her back on the road ! Bussin... it's a journey, not a destination.
if there were a "Like" button I would be clicking it now. ;D
I don't think anyone is disrespecting anyone for purchasing a bus on a budget. Folks just want others to know what they may be up against. We have had people posting that purchased their dream bus to be stranded on the side of the road with a big tow bill on the way and storage costs while they ponder throwing more money at the project. Forum's are worst case and best case scenarios. If I ask how to check my oil I will get 10 differing ways. It's the way it is. I do believe that most folks are good hearted and for sure want everybody to have good luck. The main thing we all want is for others to enjoy their journey and not wish they had never even thought about buying a bus. But if one is buying such a vehicle expecting to travel all over carefree....... consider yourself warned. I think that's all folks are trying to say. At least that's what I'm thinking.
I certainly meant no disrespect to anyone's opinion. Just sharing my journey ! And yes, everyone should be forewarned on the financial end of buying a bus.
I'm sure you didn't John as nobody else is either. I sat down and added up what I have into my bus and basically couldn't buy the tow rig for a 5th wheel trailer much less include the cost of the s&s trailer that is falling apart as I tow it. So basically we are on the same path. I use mine more as a local camper but more because of my limited free time than anything else. I keep telling the wife that someday we are going to be "homeless" when we retire and turn into fulltimers. Hopefully it won't be because of all the $$ I put into the bus!! :D :D
I sometimes tell folks "My bus is not one that is likely ever to be a featured bus. Rather, it is an example of what you can do when you have have to and have no money." And I am currently limited to the local area by virtue of five old tires that I don't trust for the highway and no budget for the fuel.
But I love my bus. For about 4 years it has been home sweet home and I still enjoy living in it. The engine is a good one and when I do get her on the road she rides like a dream. The bus is solid and without any serious rust. I shopped carefully and as patiently as I could (being me that is a relative term I'm sure). As a result I got a great bus at a great price. That is my biggest advise to anyone considering buying a bus. Take your time and shop carefully, taking full advantage of the advice and help available in this forum.
The last time down to Florida it set me back with a new tire needed on the side of the road after business hours and a water pump when I got down there. But I found a good price on the water pump and some great friends helped me with the R & R of it in through a space man was not meant to traverse (at least not one my size).
I consider myself blessed with my bus. And if the economy keeps going the way it is, some of my non-bus friends that thought I was crazy just might end up deciding it is the way to go.
Ever since the wife and I gave up the house , we say we are HOUSELESS not HOMELESS. We have a "home" and for a lot less than the money we had in Houses!
Full-timing is great and we are working for our spot each month 40 hours a month on the river. We love the Bus we built.
Dave 8) :D ;D
In every group of people who share a common interest, there will always be different classes. Some have so much income or money salted away that cost is truly no object. Others will always come up short. Most people whether wealthy or not so much, all more or less get along with one another. But there will always be some, usually on the high end, who just dont want to share road or parking space with the lower end of life. But its their loss.
Whats sad is when some who really arent poor, just conservative, ask about fuel economy. Thats kind of a touchy subject for me, because regardless of income or wealth, there just is no need to be wasteful or unconscious. I dont really care if theirs gets 5 or not, jusy dont shoot me for askin if there is somethin that does a lil bit better. I dont have that fat a wallet that I wanna blow the whole wad on fuel up to Alaska and not have fun along the way buyin somethin besides fuel.
For me, ive been blessed to have lived on both sides of tracks, and fortunately (or unfortunately) more than once. I learned young to never look down on people for their station in life, but rather their attitude. Ive known wealthy people who you would never know were wealthy because they dressed down and were humble, and ive known a few mediocre wannabes who blow every dime they can muster (or their dads dimes) trying to "look" wealthy. They are usually the ones looking down their nose at everyone.
My attitude is if you can do it, and still keep your family satisfied and your bills paid, it aint nobodies business how you done it or how your doin it. Long as you aint a jerk or a total brainless moron, you can park alongside anytime. Backerin.
In all my years school bus people were the happiest group a 3000 dollar bus and you thought they own a 1mil Prevost they always wanted you to check their bus out some were well done some not so well done
I enjoyed our buses but when you put 12 to 30 thousand miles a year on one like we did those suckers can get heavy on the wallet lol be happy and spend time with family that's what it is all about no matter what bus you own.
Then when you get done with bus gig you buy a boat and a helicopter lol
good luck
Quote from: luvrbus on June 27, 2011, 09:38:43 PM
Then when you get done with bus gig you buy a boat and a helicopter lol
good luck
LOL. Thats pretty funny. Just make sure you let someone test fly that dude first.
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When we got ours eight years ago our budget was tight, as time went on we did what we could. We always came up with money to do this and that, and now we live in it full time going on three years now. We have enjoyed making new friends in the bus community over the years and would not trade that for anything.
I've been lucky to acquire quite a few things along the way that were pretty good deals on used equipment. Did all of the interior work ourselves and now we get the opportunity to do an engine/tranny swap. We have managed to scrape up the fuel money, buy new tires and a few other things along the way. Would I do it again, yur durn right!
I had always wanted one and I fulfilled my dream. 8)
My wife even enjoys it, although sometimes the space is a bit tight for her! ;)
If you concentrate and thank God for what you have instead of what you don't have you will be happier! He will make sure you have what you need not want at the exact moment you need it, Not before and not after. You just have to believe.
The Irish have a saying,
When asked what they have or want.
They say,"I have enough" "I have what I need"
Dave 8) ;D :D
My wife and I were told many years ago, "Don't have children until you can afford them". Here we are 27 years later and our children, who we couldn't afford, are grown up and out of the house. Now we have a bus. We love our chldren, but we have much more freedom with our bus. I think it it actually costs less to raise a bus.
Good Luck,
Mike
"I think it it actually costs less to raise a bus."
Amen.
My biggest concern would be (and still is) a catastrophic failure thousands of miles from home. If I couldn't find a way to limp home, I would probably have to abandon it where it sits for scrap. A $10,000 repair on the road would be out of the question.
Yes to all the above. Kids cost for sure.!!!! our bus is a extention of our lives personality -skills-experiences- dreams-values. Life is good. Busses are good. bus family is priceless. If things get to rough at home there is always the bus! Bob
In my situation I couldnt afford to NOT buy my bus. I got it for a very good price. Even in this market I can stand to make good money on it if I needed to. My family and I have no intentions on selling tho. As much as we travel to derbys and to races it makes it so much easier to travel with the family and pets.
We travelled with a slide in bed camper for about 10 days and it took alot of the fun out of it. Alot happier times in the bus.
As for the cost of getting it towed or repaired. Mechanically theres not a repair that I wouldnt/cant tackle on it myself. As for right now we dont plan on leaving the state and my budy who has a tow service will pick me up for no up front charge within the state. ;D
I can barely pay attention, let alone afford this conversation,but we get by. "Where there is a will, there is a way" (Mom '62)
We stay close to home also, mostly due to an engine that, quite frankly have no confidence in what so ever! Have been fortunate that it gets us around locally though (counting the Blessings here), but under no uncertain terms would I make the wrong decision and chance pushing the limits on the mill. That being said, I'll bide my time until we are ready to build a fresh mill with a tad more poneys ;)
Havin a blast
just the same! ;D
I have been using the pay as you go system. When I have the extra cash I work on the bus or take it out and use it. When funds are low it sits. If something catastophic happens I'll adress it when the time comes. You can buy running parts busses pretty cheap these days...
Anytime you think a bus is expensive just look at the prices of comparable sized S&S! There is no contest and a bus is probably just as cheap to operate.
Of course our buses are ancient, mostly, and require a lot of attention but they make a great hobby and each trip is an adventure! It wouldn't feel like much of a trip if something didn't break!!
Quote from: gus on June 28, 2011, 12:20:44 PM
Anytime you think a bus is expensive just look at the prices of comparable sized S&S! There is no contest and a bus is probably just as cheap to operate.
Of course our buses are ancient, mostly, and require a lot of attention but they make a great hobby and each trip is an adventure! It wouldn't feel like much of a trip if something didn't break!!
I use this justification often. I have less than 20,000 cash in my conversion and I figure if I had to do a complete repower I'd still be ahead of the game. I guess what comes down to is if you are "all in" or not. I'm in.
Quote from: buddydawg on June 28, 2011, 12:11:49 PM
I have been using the pay as you go system. When I have the extra cash I work on the bus or take it out and use it. When funds are low it sits. If something catastophic happens I'll adress it when the time comes. You can buy running parts busses pretty cheap these days...
Couldn't have said it better !
Every month I look at the featured RV in the Motorcoach @$#. mag. It always makes me feel good about how much I have in my bus. A little class C starts at $100K. And $200K and up for a cheesy class A. Ain't real buses great!
JC
Quote from: gus on June 28, 2011, 12:20:44 PM
It wouldn't feel like much of a trip if something didn't break!!
My feelings exactly. I only remember parts of certain trips because of equipment failures. Spent 3 days in a Wino hotel in Winnipeg, waiting on parts for my bike (my mcgyvered V reg had fried the ignition)....once I had cobbled together a points ignition, I hit the road again, feeling great, man I was broke, good thing the hotel only cost $5 a night.
Quote from: gus on June 28, 2011, 12:20:44 PM
Anytime you think a bus is expensive just look at the prices of comparable sized S&S! There is no contest and a bus is probably just as cheap to operate.
Of course our buses are ancient, mostly, and require a lot of attention but they make a great hobby and each trip is an adventure! It wouldn't feel like much of a trip if something didn't break!!
i'm very happy if nothing breaks, thank you very much!!! We looked at a new S&S. Glad we chose a bus, even if it's a little tight (homey?) without slides.
roughly 1500 mi since we pulled the engine and no problems. it still feels like a trip to me!
Quote from: Len Silva on June 28, 2011, 07:23:44 AM
My biggest concern would be (and still is) a catastrophic failure thousands of miles from home. If I couldn't find a way to limp home, I would probably have to abandon it where it sits for scrap. A $10,000 repair on the road would be out of the question.
This in particular has been the primary issue I would like more control over. There have been some blown engine threads over the last months that I know left a few of us speachless. $10K or more in repairs while on a road trip and I probably would have joined you in leaving it. So my decision now will be bandaid repairs to get it home and fix it there as I determine. Short of a broken crank, block or head, there doesnt seem to be much that will actually stop a big Detroit. There are workarounds for almost every major failure that will allow the engine to continue to operate.
That's a big advantage to the old mechanical Detroits. Limping home, even on half an engine, is often very doable.
Guys there is more to it than just a engine you shell a rear gear on any bus you are talking 5g's +on the road lose a drop box setup on a MCI 5 or a Eagle most of the time it will take both the drop box and ring gear out big bucks there the main gear in a drop box is over 3 grand alone then the pinion drive gear is 1500.
The GM setup can cost a small fortune also when it goes south 2000 miles from home
The Eagle club members have a network if a member has lost his drive train on the road one of the members has a complete set differential and drop box on a frame ready to ship to a member in need then they rebuild their unit and return it saving the member the $10,000 hicky on the road pretty neat huh.
A transmission of any type can be very costly to repair at a dealer when on the road trust me just don't worry about the engine there are other things that on the road can cost dearly
good luck
I can't afford my conversion, but since I have no other hobbies, I can justify the cost. I have kept it through periods of unemployment, and underemployment, kid's college costs, moving, and house remodels.
I have the "pay as you go" mentality. I try to "do it right the first time", and focus on practical functionality. I don't hunt or fish, go golfing or racing, or other interests that benefit only me. I save money by doing 95% of my car maintenance and repairs myself. I only buy used cars, and my cell phone only allows me to talk(I'm not savvy enough for all the other time wasting features).
I don't really keep up to date with the latest technology(until it is really cheap!) I joke with my friends that I am almost Amish!
So financially, I justify my bus expenses by referencing all the money I save on everything else. It is my one hobby that benefits(actually future--will benefit) the whole family. Still not an ironclad justification, but defendable.
As Fast Fred says I am "doing it my way."
Steve Toomey
pabusnut
I cannot afford my bus. So I bought another one!!! I could not afford to send two children to the University of Texas, buy a new house, and many other things. I just did it. I get up at 5 am and usually work until 9 pm on something. Im only 62, so I need to get started on my retirement. Work hard, play hard. It will all even out.
Big John
It's only money guys you can't take it with you but as my brother said you sure as hell can't go any place without it. I still cannot figure the term hobby when used with bus ownership LOL I don't call my boat a hobby that thing is bottomless money pit
good luck
Quote from: luvrbus on June 29, 2011, 05:35:07 AM
The Eagle club members have a network if a member has lost his drive train on the road one of the members has a complete set differential and drop box on a frame ready to ship to a member in need then they rebuild their unit and return it saving the member the $10,000 hicky on the road pretty neat huh.
good luck
Gawd, it is getting to where I am almost afraid to pull it out of the shop.
Didn't Byron Pigg shell out a rear-end last year Clifford? If I remember right, he had to get the parts he needed from outside the club, and they had to be shipped to him back east where he had the bus at the time.
Isn't that right, am I recalling this correctly?
He has one of the nicest Eagles around, but still, it broke down on him and we both know, he takes great care to maintain the coach.
BCO
Hey, someday my lil' red wagon will grow up to be a full bus conversion. Right now we just make believe, but this is what we will be shhotin' fer. :)
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Quote from: van on June 29, 2011, 11:12:21 AM
Hey, someday my lil' red wagon will grow up to be a full bus conversion. Right now we just make believe, but this is what we will be shhotin' fer. :)
Wow, Dejavue! I started out with a red wagon myself.
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Okay, okay, so it aint actually "red" but whadya expect for free. How is the GM prototype coming along, the Red Ryder one is that right?
BCO
Yep Don that did happen to Bryon he is the one that came up with the idea he will ship the rear and drop box to you all he asks is rebuild yours and send his back can't beat that deal anywhere.
I shipped Bryon few parts I don't think any thing came from outside the club except labor on Bryon's breakdown
It would have saved Larry a few thousand if it was in place when he lost the rear gear in Tenn our buddy Sonnie delivered a 3rd member to Jim from Texas to my place for a 1/3 of what Jones paid on the road keep it in mind if you lose one it is pretty neat network and system Bryon came up with for the Eagle's Club.
We pretty much hang together on breakdowns on Eagles
I can always put a 2 strokes together in a few days for a Eagle and get it shipped now a MCI that is a different story I don't have a MCI engine really don't want one lol .
good luck
Yeppers, I thought that was how I remembered it. Jones cost him over $8K when he broke down in Memphis, that is a lot of coin, in anyone's book.
BCO
So the drop box, diff, and tranny can/could/might blow up. Which means it might not be such a bad/stupid idea to pull them and go through them now, in the yard, rather than a big bucks gotcha, later, in Timbuktu??? Is that what yer sayin???
Drop boxes don't give many problems but with you bus I would remove it and check the bearings and lashes not that hard to do just nasty.
FWIW the 8 grand was for just for the rear gear nothing was wrong with Larry's drop box like every thing on the road he got ripped big time the ring gear and pinion cost less than 1500 bucks for him to buy if he was home he complains more about a 500 dollar tester they stole while his bus was there than the bill lol
good luck
Quote from: luvrbus on June 29, 2011, 06:41:28 PM
Drop boxes don't give many problems but with you bus I would remove it and check the bearings and lashes not that hard to do just nasty.
Any good reason not to pull the differential??
With exception of brakes, I'm more a fan of if it ain't broke don't fix it. Having said that and hearing what things cost, I would buy a running driving parts bus. Sounds like cheap insurance. Buy a shell for $2000-$6000 and have everything you need for future parts swaps. Then if you break down on the road, catch a ride home, get your parts and go back to the bus with them. If necessary pay someone to install your parts. No way around paying the labor, except to get a quote upfront and accept it or decline the repair.
Boyce
Quote from: rampeyboy on June 30, 2011, 04:48:59 AM
With exception of brakes, I'm more a fan of if it ain't broke don't fix it.
I used to think that way. I remember seeing an ad in a flyer for the local parts store with water pumps on sale, buy it NOW!!
I thought then, why would you buy a water pump when its working fine? Then I was working out at this old dusty airport fixin the puddle jumpers. One day we were working on a Beech Baron that was flying passengers for hire and thus was under part 135. Things like landing gear motors, flap motors, IIRC even alternators, were specified to be replaced at something like 250 hour intervals. Apparently the FAA could care less what you do on your own or with free flying passengers, but the minute you hang out a shingle and start holding out your hand to get them into your plane, the rules change. But also, by operating that way you bring inflight failure rates almost to zero.
While I really wouldnt cherish the prospect of pulling the differential and giving it a once over, I would much rather pull it here in the yard and fix anything questionable here, rather than have it rear its ugly head 1500 miles from home headed for Alaska. Gaskets and seals and bearings are lots cheaper to replace in your driveway than gears and housing assemblies away from home in someone else shop.
And while a parts Bus sounds good, just like a parts car you just have a bunch more unknown used parts with a hulk in your yard. Better would be to strip a Bus of its major components you might use, scrap the shell, freshen up the goodies and exchange yours for those, then freshen yours and shove em under the workbench for spares.
Better would be to strip a Bus of its major components you might use, scrap the shell, freshen up the goodies and exchange yours for those, then freshen yours and shove em under the workbench for spares.
now that idea definitely has merit!
I was terribly impressed with Johns' opening comments. I guess that's what makes us Busnuts.
I was in the chat room this evening with a young man (who shall remain anonymous) who's hoping to buy and finish a bus. Yes, I challenged him about how much effort and talent he had and was willing to put forth to achieve his dream and as to whether or not he had the support of his wife. And I was totally reassured.
While I played Devils' advocate I got all the right answers...and felt that he had not only the talent but the dedication to see his dream come to fruition.
I might be in the autumn of my days...and my bus and I might go to graves in the not too distant future I am bouyed up with the fact that there are young people who would like to join us in this rare but rewarding brotherhood.
As long as these old buses run the spirit will live on.
Bob
Quote from: van on June 29, 2011, 11:12:21 AM
Hey, someday my lil' red wagon will grow up to be a full bus conversion. Right now we just make believe, but this is what we will be shhotin' fer. :)
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Call me crazy for asking this and it will be OK. Van where is your driver seat?
Wayne, I had to barter off the drivers compartment refurb to furnish the brass stripper pole in the bedroom :o ;D ;)
Videos? ;D ;D