I had to cancel my big trip this evening. We came up one day short on getting things ready enough for the trip. The major issue is the entrance door quite working. It is not a hinged door and needs to close to be able to drive the bus. I suspect a bad ground and no power to the air selenoid, but haven't had a chance to look at it. It would take a full day to finish the plumbing leaving no time to fix the door, install seats and such.
I've decided to sell the bus. I only go on one or two trips a year and it isn't worth putting more time and money into this thing and not use it for another year. With my luck recently, the engine would be siezed when started in a year anyhow. I'll lose a lot on the sale, but it would take at least $5,000 more and 100s or 1000s of hours to really whip this bus into shape. I can't afford to spend another summer of my life neglecting everything else in my life to work on a bus.
Brian Elfert
I don't kinow what to say, Brian. From what I saw the other day, I can't believe you'd let a little thing like plumbing stop you like this, but this is something every busnut has to decide on his own. Sorry to hear this.
If this is really what you want to do, figure out what you think you'll want for that new generator and we'll talk. Also, send me some measurements on those matresses, if you want to sell them (the standard ones, not the one with the cut corner.
craig
Brian,
That's a tough one. Not knowing all things going on with family, work, other pressures, etc.. Hard to know what to say.
One thing I do know with our bus. If I push too hard, then family gets stressed out, I get stressed out, and it is NOT fun for anyone. Then, I bear the brunt of the unhappiness. Not good. And believe me, I have done that before. Once or twice, or three times. Or more. This is really supposed to be fun for family, friends, etc. Maybe even providing some help, service to others as well with the bus.
When I slow down. Things look a LOT better. Everyone is happier. Take time away. Next day, next week, month, etc., I get a better perspective. Things which looked impossible while under pressure, later look possible. Usually.
But obviously, I don't know all factors involved. So I don't want to suggest too much with that in mind.
I would just like to offer encouragement in whatever way you determine is best for you and your family.
Kind Regards, Phil
Someone wisely observed, "Life is what happens while you're making other plans." :)
As we drift through or drive our way through this experience we sometimes call mortality, things
happen and stuff doesn't always go the way we expect or prefer or want it to. That's life. Sometimes
we have to change the direction we've been going, even when it isn't particularly pleasant to do so.
Something I have been learning from many long years of experience is: Never underestimate the
value of the experiences you gain by trying things, whether they work out or not. When I was in
college, I bought a corporation that owned two small-towm cable TV systems and a retail TV repair
shop. I ran that business for two years while going to school, and tried a lot of interesting things.
For example, I built a 40-foot-diameter dish and hung it on a 60-foot TV tower (with some help from
my wife) so I could pull TV signals from Albuquerque, NM to 20 miles north of the Colorado border,
a distance of over 180 miles. It worked unbelievably well. So well that I was getting a full tenth of
a volt of signal off of the antenna instead of the usual one one-hundredth of that amount (which
would have been acceptably adequate)!
After shutting the systems down because they weren't making the money I was told they made, and
pulling the plug on the TV shop because there wasn't enough business for just me and I was sharing the
marketwith eight competitors, I went and got a job at Hewlett-Packard as an electronic technician on a
precision digital voltmeter assembly line at $3.30/hour in 1969. I was one class short of graduating with
a degree in physics with a minor in mathematics, but HP wanted people with real engineering degrees
before they hired them as engineers. I worked that job for 15 months, then enrolled in a graduate
electrical engineering program at Colorado State University where I went to school via video tape for
5 long years. After 2 years I became an engineer. I never finished the MS degree, but five years later
I got licensed as a registered professional engineer in Colorado. In 1999, after 30 years with the
company, I took my retirement and left. I was making $75,000/year at the time. Yet, when I
figured inflation into the picture, that $75,000 translated to barely 10% more than I was making as a
brand-new electronic tech with no credit for experience 30 years earlier! I felt like I really got a raw
deal after figuring that out. I made and saved that company many millions of dollars in that time!
People thought I failed when I shut down the business in 1969. Some thought I failed when I didn't
finish the MSEE degree. I have tried other things that didn't work as planned. Did I fail? Absolutely
not! We have nine *good* children who are productive adults. Our youngest daughter is pursuing a
PhD degree right now (I think she's nuts but she wants to do it). Our youngest son was inducted into
a the Beta Gamma Sigma international business honor society last spring (he's a junior at CSU studying
international finance and is learning Spanish and Chinese -- he already knows French).
The whole point of this is to tell you, don't be afraid to try stuff, and if it doesn't work, learn to
appreciate the value of the experience. When really bad stuff happens, as it sometimes does, don't
sit and feel sorry for yourself. Always try to look for the hidden value in the experience. It is true that
in every adversity in life lies the seed of an equal or greater benefit. So when garbage lands in your
lap, start looking for the benefit whle you deal with the garbage.
After a few years, you'll be able to look back and see the value.
But if you do what many do -- get a case of the po' po' pitiful me's -- plan on having a lot of pitiful
days in your life.
We have the power to choose how we look at life. Within that power lies the key to personal
happiness.
Happiness doesn't come from always doing what you like to do. It comes from learning to love what
you have to do, while keeping an eye on the eventual reward if you don't give up on the important
things.
Don't let what matters most suffer at the hands of what matters least. That is what wrecks lives,
marriages, nations, and societies.
Clarke
Dang, Clarke.... the longer you hang around here, the more I like you!!!!
GREAT story and GREAT advice!!!
I agree with every word... :)
Brian- maybe just call it a bad day and remember that at 30,000 feet it's ALWAYS a beautiful one...
Cheers
Gary
Brian, looking back on 4 years plus working on my bus and very little use of it, I realized early on that working on it is my hobby and something that I enjoy doing. If you read back a few years on the BNO board or look at old issues of BC mag, you'll only recognize a few names that are still around now actively posting and sharing info. I beleive for these guys, buses are a hobby also.
I dont know of another way that it works. After buying a bus to convert, it either becomes your hobby or you get discouraged and sell and move onto something else.
We are all in search of the thing that ignites our passion....when we find it, the motivation is easy, without it, it's only a struggle and a hassle. If its not the bus for you, then perhaps its the next thing you try. You gave it a shot. Congratulations.
Either way, I wish you the best of luck. Chuck
Quote from: ChuckMC8 on September 24, 2006, 03:56:43 AM
Brian, looking back on 4 years plus working on my bus and very little use of it, I realized early on that working on it is my hobby and something that I enjoy doing.
I'll second that. 4 years for me too and it was all worth it. If doing the conversion isn't something you enjoy...Well....That's why the manufacturers build them every day.
Ross
I put so much time into the bus that I've neglected every other thing in my life this summer. Heck, I haven't even mowed my lawn in more than a month! The inside of my house looks like a tornado hit it. Luckily I'm not married and live alone.
I don't really want to put another summer of my life into a bus if I am never going to be able to use the darned thing. No, it doesn't have to be a Taj Mahal, but it least has to have functional plumbing which it does not right now.
I didn't really see any point in spending $1500 on fuel for a trip in a steel tent when a conversion van will get 4 MPG better and cost less per gallon for gasoline instad of diesel. I am not going on the trip anymore, but my friends are taking a conversion van and just staying in a tent out in the desert.
Brian Elfert
Quote from: Ross on September 24, 2006, 05:53:36 AM
I'll second that. 4 years for me too and it was all worth it. If doing the conversion isn't something you enjoy...Well....That's why the manufacturers build them every day.
No manufacturer makes any production motorhome anything like what I wanted for my use. They don't exactly come with six or eight bunks. A custom manufacturer could do it, but I could never afford it.
I should have bought the custom motorhome I saw for $75k that had six bunks, a 450 HP motor,, and a 12 speed automatic tranny. It was a 2004 built for some race team or something.
Brian Elfert
Brian,
I have been there so many times that it's scary. Just face the fact that you lost focus and were rushing far ahead of the reality of the conversion process. The fact is that we all do it many times after starting a bus conversion project.
I couldn't say that what motivated you to was entirely out of line but like most of us you probably should have stepped back to look at the longer term of your project and not so much of the short term. Which over the past months has appeared to me to be more like you were trying to compress 2 years of work into 6 months and doing everything by yourself without help from anyone.
All that I can say is " Don't Bail Out Now ! " You have come so far in such a short time. Maybe just work on getting the rest of your life back to normal a little. Get a BIG tarp and cover your bus up, Park it and go back to it later when the time and motivation returns, Maybe it will take 6 months maybe 2 years. You have spent way too much money and time to waste it now.
Please don't sell your bus. The other problem is that you will start looking for another one within months....
You already have the "Affliction" or "Disease" and there is no cure !!
Dave....
Quote from: DrDave-Reloaded on September 24, 2006, 06:35:39 AM
Please don't sell your bus. The other problem is that you will start looking for another one within months....
If I sell this bus, there isn't the slightest chance of being able to afford another for several years given all the money I will lose on this one. I would never buy another Dina and I could never afford a 102D3 or 102DL3 with Series 60 and B500 which is the only other bus I would ever consider.
Brian Elfert
Quote from: belfert on September 24, 2006, 06:01:01 AM
Quote from: Ross on September 24, 2006, 05:53:36 AM
I'll second that. 4 years for me too and it was all worth it. If doing the conversion isn't something you enjoy...Well....That's why the manufacturers build them every day.
No manufacturer makes any production motorhome anything like what I wanted for my use. They don't exactly come with six or eight bunks. A custom manufacturer could do it, but I could never afford it.
Brian Elfert
That's why we build our own. If you can't build it, you have to buy it, and that gets expensive when you step up to a converted bus. I almost sold mine a couple times over the last 4 years, but I stuck with it and now I'm traveling full time in a finished bus. There is no way I could have afforded to buy this bus done or even have it built.
No offense, but what gets me is you've only had the bus a few months. Surely you didn't expect to knock this out in that quick, especially after reading this board.
Quote from: belfert on September 24, 2006, 06:01:01 AM
If I sell this bus, there isn't the slightest chance of being able to afford another for several years given all the money I will lose on this one.
There's a perfect reason not to sell it. Just take a break, regroup and get back on it after you clear your head. We all go through the "What the %^#* did I do. This thing will never get done" stage.
Ross
Brian, I have to agree with Dr. Dave.
I haven't really put any effort into my bus in the last year or two. It just sits and we survive in it.
However, now that some of my medical problems are being taken care of, I've found a renwed interest in getting things done.
And, like Dave said, just throw a tarp over it, and walk awayu fromit for a while until you've had time to slow down and reflect on what you actually want to do.
I think that you have focused so long and so hard on the one thing that you've lost sight of the journey itself. This is suppose to be a labor of love not a sentence of hard labor.
Give it a break for a while and see if things look a little brighter later.
Dallas
Quote from: Ross on September 24, 2006, 06:48:24 AM
No offense, but what gets me is you've only had the bus a few months. Surely you didn't expect to knock this out in that quick, especially after reading this board.
I way underestimated what it would take in terms of time to get a working bus. I would have never started on this if I knew I wouldn't have a usable bus to leave on Sept 27th.
If I just had one more day, the bus would be ready, but I don't have another day. I can't take any more time off work as I have training Monday and Tuesday.
Brian Elfert
When I get sick of working on mine, I just stop and do other things. I have used mine as a steel tent ever since I bought it, and although it didnt make sense to use it that way, I still enjoyed it. I have left it for months at a time, but its patient and always waiting for me when my motivation returns. I just love that bus.
its true, we all have to find that balance in our lives. It seems that you have been putting so much of yourself into this for a while, and it really seems a shame for the rest of us to see you walk away. We have all been rooting for you. and still are.
And why loose so much to sell it right now?
Maybe we shouldn't have all talked you into trying to finish before your trip. I think we have all appreciated your enthusiasm and your energy and the quantity and depth of the questions you've asked. It would seem to us from reading your posts that you are doing a great job. If you do hang in there, it will be rewarding.
Whatever you decide, I'm sure this community will support you and try to help you.
It may have missed this trip but it will be there for the next one if you stop and take a breath.
Good luck to you.
Well
All I can say is walk away from the old bus and put on the back burner for awile so to speak.
I think all bus owners have suffered from burn out while we were working on our project.
Keep after it don't sell it and you will be on the road one day soon.
jlv
Brian, I am at a loss of words here! I agree all above! I really think since you all ready know and admit yer gonna take a huge loss on it if ya sell it, that deep down you really don't wanta do it! Now I personally agree with H3Jim ! Get it basically useable, and USE it go camping get away from everything for a few days and develope a new bond with the bus! If you try you might find it's fun to get out once in a while in it, and not just use it once a year as planned. Heck get out and use it tailgating at a PACKERS or Bears game, or whatever. Heck I really hate to see ya take a huge loss on it, but if you insist could you reverse what you've done to it and make it charter ready again for me? LOL! Just kidd'n ! It would make a good start on a "Limo or Party Bus" Just think about broading yer perspective of the use of the bus, and take it out and use it as is once or twice before dumping it! BK ;D
Brian, I may be too new to my bus hobby to be to the burn out stage, but I have seen many other burn outs in life. I would start something, set a goal and put all of my focus and energy into it (business projects, hobby projects, home and even relationships/marriages). This often times brought me success and the rewards that go with it. However it also brought me total and complete burnout and in some cases failure. Over time I learned that "all things in moderation" applies well to how we apply ourselves to the things we choose to do.
So my advice to you is similar to what others have said. Take some time away. Afterwards, consider things carefully. Was this outing the only reason you were doing the bus conversion? Was this investment a casual decsion? Do you really want to lose the money and time you have put into it? Would you still enjoy it when it is done? If you limit your time spent on it to no more than 3-5 hours per week, would you be able to enjoy the other aspects of your life too?
If you are only one day away from having it functional, then give it 3 hours each weekend for the 3-4 weeks. From there on, limit your time spent on it to just a portion of your free time. That way you will enjoy it more, your quality of life will improve and you will ultimately have the bus conversion you dreamed of.
Whatever you choose to do, I wish you the best.
I way underestimated what it would take in terms of time to get a working bus. I would have never started on this if I knew I wouldn't have a usable bus to leave on Sept 27th.
If I just had one more day, the bus would be ready, but I don't have another day. I can't take any more time off work as I have training Monday and Tuesday
Brian Elfert
Brian,
Maybe I am just too simplistic....Just leave ONE DAY later than you planned.....Take your first vacation day and make that the "If only I had one more day, day" and make it usable.
But, since your friends are already going and your not.....Scrub your planned vacation days and reschedule to take a trip to one of the rallies coming up....
Where when you are in the company of other Crazy Busnuts you will appear to be Normal again ;D
Rallies are very inspirational and the break until the next rally will give you a little cooling off period before you give up on the project.
And the brotherhood of busnuts said: "AMEN" ;)
Cliff
Brian,
There have been a lot of good suggestions here.
Whatever you do, make sure that you will be happy with the long term decision.
Remember the thrill when that big diesel fired up behind you and you took it out and headed for home?
How about the cool feeling of going down the road and sitting up above most everyone else and just whispering along?
What about the plans and dreams and goals you set for yourself? Sure, they may not have panned out exactly the way you would like, but you have proven to yourself that you are capable of building something that will bring you a lot of joy for years to come.
Maybe Cliff, (Florida Cracker), has a point... reschedule some vacation time and drop down to one of the rallies, Christy and Larry's in Carthage, Mo., Bryces Tn. Bus Bash in Union City, Tn. or even Cat and my little get together in Timmonsville, SC.
You may learn stuff that will make your converting easier and for sure you are going to have loads of fun!
(Oh, and if you really want to take a loss on the shell, I'll be glad to take it off your hands for the nominal sum of, say, $50?) ::) ::) ::)
What a tax write off that would be!
In closing, even though I don't know you personally, I have you pictured in my mind as a person that is driven to succeed and is goal oriented. I just can't see you as a person who will give up this easily.
30
Brian, I've waited and have given careful consideration to my thoughts about your situation. While I feel for you in your despair I have to admit honestly that you have no one to blame but yourself.
Now, I'm by no stretch of the imagination, flaming you. You became a new Member of this Board in April, the same month in which I went and took delivery of my bus. In that relatively short period of time you have become a Hero Member of this Board.
I spend a lot of time both on the Board and in the Chat Room...and some of my friends here have brought their concerns about my being burned out on my project to my attention...and they were right...I was approaching burnout.
It strikes me that you have not been a good manager of your time. Valuable time which could have been spent on your work was spent here on the board attaining your Hero Status...which it seems was more important than the work at hand. My comments may sound cruel and heartless, but they're certainly not meant to be that way. Anyone who know me here knows that I'm a pretty congeniel person and try to have a good relationship with all.
If you want to have a "Pity Party", go off by yourself and have one, friend. You've bared your problems to all who will listen and are asking for sympathy, which in my mind, you don't deserve.
Channel your energies into constructive work or sell your bus...but in either event...get a life or straighten out the one you currently have.
Whichever you choose to do, I wish you all the best.
cordially,
NCbob
NCbob,
I gotta say that was probably uncalled for. I suspect all you have to go by in basing your opinion are the posts on this board. Not really a fair judgement, in my opinion.
I've followed Brian's conversion from before he bought the bus. I've personally seen what he's accomplished in this short time, and I have to say I'm pretty impressed with how it's turning out. I've read his posts on the boards, and a good number of them are seeking advice and information.
That being said, I've always considered his plans overly ambitious. I didn't agree with his choice of a shell, or the reasons he had to making that choice, but it was his to make, not mine. He's made other decisions I would not have done myself, and I still don't understand his refusal to take the bus in it's current state, but I respect his decisions and admire his efforts. At least he made the decisions and moved on. I know people (myself included) who will stew on a problem for weeks or months without making a decision, and then when they do, it may turn out to be the wrong one (myself included a number of times).
Bus conversison is an individual hobby, with group suspport, but in the end, it's the individual part that matters.
craig
Hi Craig,
I'll also have to comment here,
Brian may have only been too aggressive in his goals. And came up short. But, Myself and many others here have invested some time in helping Brian and
We are somehow left feeling a little empty. The last thing we want to hear from Brian is what he has just told us.....Saaaad....
My opinion is what ever road he takes, He should not feel the way he does period. He will come away with tons of knowledeg.
Nick Badame
Quote from: FloridaCracker on September 24, 2006, 12:12:45 PM
Maybe I am just too simplistic....Just leave ONE DAY later than you planned.....Take your first vacation day and make that the "If only I had one more day, day" and make it usable.
But, since your friends are already going and your not.....Scrub your planned vacation days and reschedule to take a trip to one of the rallies coming up....
There is no way the others going would agree to this and I wouldn't want to either. The event pretty much starts Thursday evening and leaving a day later means we would get there Friday evening. Too late for this idea now since the bus didn't get worked on today really.
I was going to take 28 hours of unpaid time to go on this trip so I can't really go to any rallies as I would prefer to save that money. Besides, the bus is not driveable. The entrance door is still broke. The page in the electrical diagram book for the door is missing and I am sure it was never there. I need to call MCI Monday.
To go to a rally would require finishing the plumbing and I really need to spend time getting my yard ready for winter instead of working on the bus. I planned to dive into the yard the moment I got back from my trip.
Brian Elfert
First, I wanted to say it is indeed sad when someone loses sight of their dreams.\\
That being said, and with no intention of flaming Brian but to educate others:
Brian Recieved alot of advice and comments from some knowledgable people prior to making his coach choice. Despite the simplicity and long history of the DD 2 stroke brian was dead set against owning one.....
I personally advised him against the Dina.....for alot of reasons that were justified prior to his latest decison to sell.
Of the buses I have personally sold I have talked more people out of buying because they were not properly informed on what is involved in bus ownership let alone Doing a conversion.
Most people are better served by buying a sicks and staples and calling it good.
Then there are those who either have the wherewithall to do a conversion, or aare looking for a "hobby"
To all future bus owner prospects.
1. Buses are expensive, to own, to operate, to fix.
2. Your conversion cost will be dictated by how nic3e a conversion you want. There are people that are quite happy with a very bare bones, non craftsman type conversion. I have seen happy folks in schoolies with a little portable honda generator.....all the way through they guy who has a 750k professional conversion
3.Busaes are expensive to own operate and fix
4.unless you are retired, or at least are a good manager of time....a converion takes time
5.When you do chose you bus buy one after considering all information available to you.
6. Buying a bus without knowing how it was maintained is a gamble, Yes you can get a good deal, but do you want to risk a shop bill in excess of a thousand dollars
7. Buying a bus not made in the US is a huge gamble......the support/infrastructure is not there.
8. The used bus market at the time of this posting is a buyers market.....keep that in mind......
9. There are reputable used bus dealers out there, and then not so reputable ones. Stay away from the latter......and heed the warnings of others.
10. Have the bus inspected by a reputable shop that knows buses......the DD shop might know your engine but not your bus.
11. Always be there when they inspect your coach.
12. Aleways drive your coach prior to buying it.
13. overall c ondition of the coach is a hint at how it was maintained......someone who doesn't have the wipers adjusted properly......a 5 minute job....likely wasn't to concerned with other things
14. Tires........the owner who buys good tires likely was not tight about spending on other items......hankook vs michilin type of thing
15. I could go on and on........most people on this and other boards are helpfull and knowledgable.......heed their advice and it will save you $$$$ and Heartache
Quote from: tekebird on September 24, 2006, 04:41:54 PM
First, I wanted to say it is indeed sad when someone loses sight of their dreams.\\
That being said, and with no intention of flaming Brian but to educate others:
Brian Recieved alot of advice and comments from some knowledgable people prior to making his coach choice. Despite the simplicity and long history of the DD 2 stroke brian was dead set against owning one.....
I personally advised him against the Dina.....for alot of reasons that were justified prior to his latest decison to sell.
The real issue here is not having the bus ready for my trip. It would have been pretty much the same with any brand. Something else critical besides the door might have broken on another bus. The only issue I have with my Dina now is the I would much rather have a hinged entrance door, but I knew that up front.
I WAY underestimated the amount of time required to get a basic bus with electric and plumbing ready to go. I had already pared back on anything not absolutely essential. No kitchen at all for this trip.
Everything was coming together to make a very good trip this year. Diesel prices are way down so the trip won't be as expensive. I could wait another year and go next year, but with my rotten luck, diesel prices would be $6 a gallon and we couldn't go once again with another year down the drain working on a unused bus.
Even in today's market, I don't think anyone could find a rust free bus with Series 60/B500 for less than what I paid unless maybe another Dina. MCIs with this config are still sky high expensive.
Brian Elfert
Hey Brian:
Sorry to hear about the bus and the trip! Bummer.
Sounds like you've made up you mind on the bus, so I won't try to talk you out of it. For your usage pattern, you might consider throwing all of the expensive stuff you're stripping out of the bus and putting it into a decent TT or 5-th wheel that you can modify to suit your needs. A trailer won't have the expensive upkeep of a bus. Insurance should be less, too. And they don't "need to be towed" the way a bus really "needs to be driven". Just a thought.
I'd say for two trips a year, your bus would be pretty expensive in terms of $ per mile. We try to use ours about six weeks a year and at least once a month to justify having it around. Even then, it's a pretty expensive hobby in terms of $ per mile. We do love it, though.
And don't beat yourself up. We've all made unrealistic expectations and over-commited to projects and passions. You've been working like a dog on the bus and winding yourself up in knots over this one trip. Crazy as it sounds, enjoy not working on the bus and not going on the trip. Your stress level, blood pressure, and sanity will all thank you.
There will be other trips... maybe even other busses... either way, you gave it a shot. Here's an idea... go out and sit in your bus. And do nothing. Enjoy that.
Peace,
Brian B.
aka Dr. Feelbetter
I had a travel trailer and a Ford F-350 dually. The trips we went on were so long that I finally sold the truck and trailer because nobody likes being jammed into a crew cab truck for hours and hours on end.
The whole bus thing came about because we wanted something that we could move around in during long trips and not be jammed in together. Obviously, this didn't pan out. I wouldn't go back to a truck and travel trailer.
Brian Elfert
If you are gonna build a conversion, ya gotta have patiance.!!!! :-\
I started my bus 10 years ago. I used my bus the first time about 4 years ago, and that was just to go steel tenting. I have waited 10 years to get to go on a trip, across country, and now I have been hurt, and probably will never get to do as I have planed, but, I will not stop, and if I don't live long enough to get to use it the way I want, I will give it to my son, and let him live out my dream.
Get your bus running, and use it. It don't have to look like a 750K conversion. If you wait for it to be good enough, It probably never will, and you will never use it.
Get that door shut, duct tape it shut. Get some flashlites, for inside lites, and a 5 gallon bucket, and git-ur-done. (just jokin about the 5 gallon bucket).
DON'T WAIT.
Just my 2 Cents
Steve
Ok I'm in a motel room and on my laptop. To make it quick and to the point...
I second what NCbob said!
If some of these guys that are TRYING to convert a bus into a motorhome of sorts whether it be a steel tent or luxurious coach, how about spending MORE time on the project than on the COMPUTER! DUH...
One can always tell how much time another spends on thier project from the time they spend talking about it HERE!
It doesn't go to say your not welcome here but if your on here spreading words of pity, then obviouxsly your time is not being spent on the bus!
Whatever you do, quick making excuses and JUST DO IT!
Either finish the bus to where you CAN use it or cut the grass. The house will be there when you return.
Also if your worried about fuel prices down the road, then your probably making a good decision on bailing out now!
Ace
Quote from: belfert on September 24, 2006, 06:53:09 AM
I way underestimated what it would take in terms of time to get a working bus. I would have never started on this if I knew I wouldn't have a usable bus to leave on Sept 27th.
I'll bet everyone here is guilty of that. What you're going through is nothing new. To make a usable RV/bus in just a few months single handed is just unrealistic. I thought I could do it in a year and that was a severe underestimation. If you had just one more day, you'd still need just one more. That's the way it goes. I'm with Bob. Stop looking for pity here and get out there and work on the bus. It won't fix itself.
The good news is that is you really want to bail and are willing to take the substantial loss you claim, you should be able to move it quick.
So sad to hear of your "fed up!" >:( Definetly know that frustration. Sounds like you need to go on this trip no matter how you get there at this point even if it's a bicycle.
I'm not sure, but this is my take on this.
-it seemed you were opting for going in a conversion Van to the desert with tents. Also sounds like your buddies were'nt really into it either. However, if they still are, Temp latch the door and get down the road in the bus, same facilities as a Conversion van but has genny, more room, and get's better mpg. At least drive it around the block before you make the final decision whether or not to take it.
Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda, DOESN"T MATTER NOW! just going on the trip, push has come to shove so are you going? You can't talk about selling the bus because you can't do it before you go.( of course if you leave kyle4501 the key's he'll come get it and add it to his collection before you get back :D his wife won't mind ;D :D)
We expect post next week on how the trip was, especially on how the bus was or could have been. ( :)and we know you can post Mr. Hero Member ;)) this board is here for exchange of facts and ideas (and an opinion every now and then)
Why your adventure may iinclude being glad you're only having to get a conversion van unstuck. ::)
-now it seems that you also mentioned not going with your buddies, if you don't, go some where in the bus, even if it's close by. (I farmed out getting the grass mowed money well spent and allows me a little time too work on the bus). You don't need plumbing cause you have to stop to potty any way and the campgrounds have good potties and showers. You may find that you want to work from the bus. or live in the bus(no grass to mow)
Do it your way, and if it's not workin out how you planned, change your way to make it work for the best.
Life is short, go enjoy some of it. ( and have enough fun that you know that your havin it, relax too)
Look forward to your reports of adventure.
8)
I haven't touched my bus in a couple of years. Life has gotten in the way of that project but I am starting to see that I will be back on it in another year and a half. Sounds to me like you need a break from your bus. It will wait for you.
Most of the posts in this thread have been pretty understanding and supportive of Brian, recognizing the symptoms of burn out. But I am suprised to see some of the tough love posts, some even reading as accusational. From the very start (not just this thread but the one where he first realized it was probably not going to be ready) Brian recognized his personal responsibility for falling short. Unlike half the people in this world, he did not try to blame others for his situation. he took responsibility. That in my mind demonstrates strength of character. He burned himself out trying hard and doing his best and missed his deadline anyway. He came here in his frustraton and despair to share his news with the friends and comrades that he had found in this forum. I beleive he came here looking for understanding from the only people that could truly understand. Not to have a pity party or to get ridiculed for being down and out.
Some have pointed to his post count as being time poorly spent. Yet it appears that most of his posts have been related to his seeking answers to his questions. Would it have been time better spent beating his head against the wall trying to reinvent the wheel? I think not. Sure, some posts were merely conversational, but then not so many as to indicate wasted time.
Most of all, to those few who have been critical of the way Brian is feeling, I have to ask - have you never been burned out? I don't mean just bummed out about something, but truly burned out. Have you ever worked 140 hours per week (that's 140 not 40) on a project for two or three months trying to meet a deadline and then missed the deadline anyway and had someone critique your dedication or attitude? Or maybe you spent weeks or months in a 100+ degree jungle or desert carrying 100+ pounds of gear. You don't expect the shavetail riding in the jeep or humvee to understand or share your view. But at the end of the day you expect that your fellow grunts will understand the tiredness that goes right through your bones. Or maybe your burnout was from too many hours in cold water while the DI hurled insults at you. Or too many hours carrying a water pack and shovel in the mountains fighting fire. Or in the ER working 72 on and 24 off doing your best saving some and losing some. Or maybe your burnout was purely emotional as your marriage went from bad to worse no matter how hard you tried.
In all of these cases you go to your friends who have gone through it. Not looking for pity, nor a kick in the @$#, maybe not even advice. But just to talk about it with people who have a common frame of reference. Any one of us may not agree with a particular decision he made or may consider the goal to have been unrealistic (something Brian already recognizes). But I think each of us have been there some time in some way. Some of us several times.
Brian, as I said before, I do hope you will wait to make any decisions about your bus until you have had time to refresh yourself and spend some time doing other things. You will likely see things quite differently.
Quote from: Ace on September 24, 2006, 07:07:12 PM
Ok I'm in a motel room and on my laptop. To make it quick and to the point...
I second what NCbob said!
If some of these guys that are TRYING to convert a bus into a motorhome of sorts whether it be a steel tent or luxurious coach, how about spending MORE time on the project than on the COMPUTER! DUH...
One can always tell how much time another spends on thier project from the time they spend talking about it HERE!
Most of my posts here are during downtime at work or during short breaks from working on the bus. I spent a good ten hours on the bus Saturday and I actually spent 8 hours Sunday trying to get the entrance door fixed and fixing some other things that need to be fixed if the bus is sold or not.
Brian Elfert
HighTechRedneck,
OOHRAH, USMC 85-91 ;D
Brian,
Seriously though, it took me a couple years to get my bus usable and after 6 yrs it still isn't the way I want it. We took several trips while the ole bus sat in the driveway. :'( My opinion is Brian just shove the bus in a corner someplace and forget about it for a little while. If you just let it sit and take a break from it, I can promise you that it won't eat anything or won't waste money. Trust me on this issue as currently I am converting my bus, restoring a 57 Chevy, restoring a 63 VW, and trying to change professions. ;D
Dale
Brian,
Sometimes you gotta know when to fold. Selling the bus may be a plausible idea. Not because of any shortcomings in your time management or otherwise...but you gave the reason in you initial post...."only take one or two trips a year." The time between those couple trips per year are likely to cause untold issues. This becomes even more complicated an issue if the bus is stored outdoors.
If you keep the bus, you'll have to get it on an exercise schedule. They can sit for some time, but it doesn't appear that you'll use it enough to merit keeping it.
We use our bus almost every month for 3 or 4 days each outing...personally, I wouldn't fool with it for any less. Way too much work. And it never ends. You got to have some misplaced priorities in life to own a bus and maintain it. It ain't for most people...those of us that pay to maintain and use them probably tend more to the "mentally obsessive" side of life.
Most dedicated bus owners have only one hobby...the bus. Maybe two hobbies...one of them depends on the bus..like my music. The bus is an adjunct to get me to music festivals 8 or 10 times a year. Another plus is that my wife enjoys the music too. This keeps her on board. If not for that...the bus would be a net liability. Hell, it's net liability no matter how you look at it.
Been working on the bus since 01 and it's still far from finished. And this is without any major mechanical issues.
Good luck with you choice Brian, JR
I was waiting for HTR's post - new it was coming, just didn't know from who - Thanks HTR, couldn't have said it better
Brian:
This is a good thread for someone thinking about doing a conversion. #1. Whatever time you "think" it's gonna take you to convert your bus -- you've likely under estimated it (both financially and time). #2. You're either bitten and you're a BusNut ... or you're not. I am sure many of us have hit some sort of wall during our conversion process (we each hit the wall a bit differently). However, if you step back ... take a breath ... take some time off ... return and eagerly and happily resume, then I think you're a BusNut. If you bail [on the bus] and move on without regret and no looking back, then I think the idea of being a BusNut may have been a fleeting thing. #3. You've got to have desire and passion to do a conversion (in my opinion).
Before prematurely selling your bus, go mow and bag your lawn, straighten up your homes inside, and take a vacation. Return with renewed energy and (hopefully) desire.
However, you might as well do the math now. If you're concerned about spending money on diesel fuel now ... buckle up. In addition to the fuel, you'll have oil changes, tires, etc., etc., etc. This, above and beyond the cost of the bus and conversion itself. What I am curious about ... you note that you should have bought custom motorhome you saw for $75k. If you had $75k to start with, you likely could have found a decent bus set up with bunks, etc. that you could have tweaked to your own needs over a period of time.
Anyway, go get a drink ... walk away ... don't sell. Come back and pick up the tools and resume with renewed enthusiasm.
Jerry H.
Jerry,
I have to disagree with you. A person does not have to do a conversion to be a busnut. There are hundreds of os out here who have purchased a bus or two already converted and we are, in my opinion, just as much a busnut as any of those with more skills or time who have done their conversion themselves.
Richard
Quote from: JerryH on September 27, 2006, 04:43:25 AM
Brian:
This is a good thread for someone thinking about doing a conversion. #1. Whatever time you "think" it's gonna take you to convert your bus -- you've likely under estimated it (both financially and time). #2. You're either bitten and you're a BusNut ... or you're not. I am sure many of us have hit some sort of wall during our conversion process (we each hit the wall a bit differently). However, if you step back ... take a breath ... take some time off ... return and eagerly and happily resume, then I think you're a BusNut. If you bail [on the bus] and move on without regret and no looking back, then I think the idea of being a BusNut may have been a fleeting thing. #3. You've got to have desire and passion to do a conversion (in my opinion).
Before prematurely selling your bus, go mow and bag your lawn, straighten up your homes inside, and take a vacation. Return with renewed energy and (hopefully) desire.
However, you might as well do the math now. If you're concerned about spending money on diesel fuel now ... buckle up. In addition to the fuel, you'll have oil changes, tires, etc., etc., etc. This, above and beyond the cost of the bus and conversion itself. What I am curious about ... you note that you should have bought custom motorhome you saw for $75k. If you had $75k to start with, you likely could have found a decent bus set up with bunks, etc. that you could have tweaked to your own needs over a period of time.
Anyway, go get a drink ... walk away ... don't sell. Come back and pick up the tools and resume with renewed enthusiasm.
Jerry H.
Hey everybody,
I just got off the phone w/Brian a little while ago, and he's not selling the bus (not yet atleast!) and he's gonna try na make it to the "TN FALL BUS BASH @ KNUCKLE"S" Oct. 26th-31st! I told him to get his butt back on the board too! He's currently working on getting the door to work!
Ok ya'll NCBob & Jackie, Ross, Steve & Ethel Hurst, Brian, Danny(last I'd heard anyway) & Family, Steve & Dorothy Nichol, (Hopefully, the man who suggested this gig in the first place) El Sonador, Huck_A_Buck (Scotty our do anything he can to help out Buddy), Myself & a few others who have said they'd be here and I either didn't get a name or I forgot it! Are ALL gonna be here at the "TN FALL BUS BASH" ! SO COME ON OUT AN JOIN THE FUN! BK ;D
On a side note I don't own a conversion, & never have owned a conversion. But I love buses so I'm a nut,
............ who loves buses which in my opinion makes me a "Busnut" LOL! BK ;D
Somedaay I'll convert and still be a "Busnut"!
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on September 27, 2006, 07:39:27 AM
I just got off the phone w/Brian a little while ago, and he's not selling the bus...
You're a good man, Bryce. And a busnut if there ever was one.
Quote from: DrivingMissLazy on September 27, 2006, 07:16:49 AM
Jerry,
I have to disagree with you. A person does not have to do a conversion to be a busnut. There are hundreds of os out here who have purchased a bus or two already converted and we are, in my opinion, just as much a busnut as any of those with more skills or time who have done their conversion themselves.
Richard
Richard - I certainly WASN'T excluding those who pruchased a completed conversion as being a BusNut ... my apology to anyone out there whos took offense. Those who know me from up in Canada ... several bought their buses "as-is" and are certailnly every bit of a BusNut.
Ok, that said ... I'd like to add to the comments here :D.
Many a bus gatherings I've missed -- for many reasons. Whether it be mechanical, work, financial, something not being ready. LIFE can be frustrating, but when things appear to "suck" ... we take a moment to gather our thoughts and then move forward when we feel ready. Most of us don't "throw in the towel", suggest we're selling our bus, or delete our profile from the board. I have more projects around here than Carter has liver pills (as I am sure we all do). They (usually) do get done, but maybe not at the pace we'd like. THAT'S LIFE!!
I know I'll get chatised for saying this, but I think that Brians premature post of saying he's selling the bus and quitting the board was (pretty much) a juvenile response -- regardless of the frustration at the moment.
Ok, firing line is now open.
Jerry H.
Thanks Jerry, I was sure you were not excluding me and others like me.
Also, based on what I have read, I have to agree with you on your second part.
Richard
Quote from: JerryH on September 27, 2006, 05:13:26 PM
Quote from: DrivingMissLazy on September 27, 2006, 07:16:49 AM
Jerry,
I have to disagree with you. A person does not have to do a conversion to be a busnut. There are hundreds of os out here who have purchased a bus or two already converted and we are, in my opinion, just as much a busnut as any of those with more skills or time who have done their conversion themselves.
Richard
Richard - I certainly WASN'T excluding those who pruchased a completed conversion as being a BusNut ... my apology to anyone out there whos took offense. Those who know me from up in Canada ... several bought their buses "as-is" and are certailnly every bit of a BusNut.
Ok, that said ... I'd like to add to the comments here :D.
Many a bus gatherings I've missed -- for many reasons. Whether it be mechanical, work, financial, something not being ready. LIFE can be frustrating, but things appear to "suck" ... we take a moment to gather our thoughts and then move forward when we feel ready. Most of us don't "throw in the towel", suggest we're selling our bus, or delete our profile from the board. I have more projects around here than Carter has liver pills (as I am sure we all do). They (usually) do get done, but maybe not at the pace we'd like. THAT'S LIFE!!
I know I'll get chatised for saying this, but I think that Brians premature post of saying he's selling the bus and quitting the board was (pretty much) a juvenile response -- regardless of the frustration at the moment.
Ok, firing line is now open.
Jerry H.
Hi all
as to being a busnut,
#1 -- If you love a bus, any bus, i think that could qualify you as a busnut. if you didn't build your own unit, it doesn't discount your love of the vehicle.
#2 -- There are I think a select amount of people who love all busses. I for one break my neck when going down the road to see ANY bus, be it schoolie or otherwise, converted or not.
#3 -- I and my family have chosen to live in a bus fulltime. This requires a certain amount of sacrifice as well as a lot of enjoyment that the "mainstream public" has no connection to. We are fortunate to have an occupation that allows us to live this way, and fulfill our busnut dreams daily.
To Brian
Hang in there, you have made the leap, and if you just give yourself the time to develop your hobby you will in time thank yourself for that very hobby.IMHO
I do appreciate the posts that you made in the course of your project. I even learned a few things from your discourse.
so, good luck in all of your endeavors.
Devin
Brian,
About only going on two trips a year. That's probably because you didn't have a bus before. Just think of all the new doors that will open up to you. (except the bus door :D just kiddin) There are things you can do with a bus that you never could do before with out a bus. Like sleep in the walmart parking lot for example, or get invited to stay at Busted Knuckles, or have an engine with more than 1000 ft-lbs of torque. You'll add your own example.
Good luck and hope you enjoy your time off anyway.
8)
Quote from: Devin on September 27, 2006, 06:45:36 PM
#1 -- If you love a bus, any bus, i think that could qualify you as a busnut. if you didn't build your own unit, it doesn't discount your love of the vehicle.
My wife and I bought ours already built, but needing some love. We are in the process of supplying the love. The love takes the form of time, and $$$. We have some time and we have some $$$. We are applying each as available.
Quote from: Devin on September 27, 2006, 06:45:36 PM
#2 -- There are I think a select amount of people who love all busses. I for one break my neck when going down the road to see ANY bus, be it schoolie or otherwise, converted or not.
When I drove down the road prior to buying our 4103 I looked at buses because a good friend has a 1951 Beck that he and his family use to go to the race track. I've always liked older buses.
Since purchasing our 4103 both my wife and I crane our necks to figure out what kind of bus we just passed in our "other" vehicles. Just the other day my wife saw a bus she didn't recognise. I was driving and asked her what she saw. She responded with, "It has an Eagle on the front." My response was that was probably an Eagle, and sure enough when I could finally see it in the mirror it was an Eagle. Just don't ask me what model. Neither of us has reached that point. Yet. ;D
Quote from: Devin on September 27, 2006, 06:45:36 PM
#3 -- I and my family have chosen to live in a bus fulltime. This requires a certain amount of sacrifice as well as a lot of enjoyment that the "mainstream public" has no connection to. We are fortunate to have an occupation that allows us to live this way, and fulfill our busnut dreams daily.
Neither my wife nor I are ready for that kind of life. In fact we are also enjoying the house we just purchsed. It, too, is a lot of work, but it's like our bus, just not mobile. (ignoring the inconvenient facts that the house sits on a tectonic plate that is "floating," and that the earth is rotating about it's axis, revolving around the sun in a solar system that is moving within a Galaxy, that itself is chugging through the Universe)
Quote from: Devin on September 27, 2006, 06:45:36 PM
To Brian
Hang in there, you have made the leap, and if you just give yourself the time to develop your hobby you will in time thank yourself for that very hobby.IMHO
I agree wholeheartedly! I've burned myself out with a number of things, and when I eased back into them I found I enjoyed them more than I thought.
To borrow and modify a phrase from the the Police: "Place your hands on your head and step away from the Bus."
Take a breather from the bus, rejoin life. Trust me, life is waiting for you, and will welcome you with open arms. When you are ready to work on the bus again it will be there waiting for you with an open door (sorry, I couldn't resist). :)
As Clarke mentioned way back in the early pages of this thread, Life is what you make of it. I've just been kicked. I lost my job a couple of weeks ago, and when I was sure I was losing it I was bummed out for a few days, until I saw it for what it was. A break from what I've been doing for close to 12 years. It is an opportunity to take some time off for me and my family (I had over 260 hours of accrued time off), and figure out what I want to do going forward. I did not dread it, I did not fear it, I accepted it, and I'm moving forward.
When I figure out where I'm going, it'll be full steam ahead. Until then I've stopped to smell the roses, and work on our bus, and on our house, and on our racecar, and our street cars (my wife and I own 13 wheeled vehicles not including ride-on lawn mowers...).
If we could be at any of the upcoming rallys we'd be there, unfortunately we have plans of every weekend through November.
Hope to see you sometime on the road. If you are ever in the Raleigh/Durham area of North Carolina, give us a shout and we can hook up for a bite to eat.
- John & Natasha
You know, I also went through a "I'm going to sell my bus" stage a few months ago. I had some other major issues to deal with and soon became overwhelmed by the bus. As it turns out, the bus is very therapeutic. Of course, a therapist would probably be cheaper, but at least this way, I'll have a bus left over after therapy! ;) I've set so may 'deadlines' to have the bus useable that I've lost count. Several people ask me when I'm going to have my bus ready 'cause I keep using my pop-up. What I finally figured out was that I was being unrealistic. I've only had the bus since May 2005. I'm working on the bus by myself. I've had a couple of days with help with removing seats, but that's all. I learned to weld. I learned how to use a plasma cutter. I learned how to work on the air and brake systems. I've had to learn how to do almost everything I've had to do to the bus. I also work 40 hours per week. I'm also neglecting the house somewhat, but it's 65 years old and a few more months of neglect won't hurt it! With all this, how COULD I have finished it? Things have been much better since that attitude adjustment! I like working on my bus again.
Now, I have a REAL deadline I have to meet... 'cause I'm going to the get-together at Timmonsville. I'll be replacing the rest of the interior aluminum wall panels tonight. Then I'll make a bed frame. Next I'll need some window coverings and a passenger seat. Hopefully, I'll have the most basic water system installed (no tanks). If not, it'll still be fun, and it'll still be better than that cheap S&S motorhome that I took last time! I tell friends that my bus will be like a studio apartment for a bit... just one big room with a partition for the bathroom, but I can't wait to drive it! I haven't driven it since I test drove it prior to buying it (although it's gonna be scary).
David.
David!
We don't care if you show up driving a Vega with your pop up behind it, just as long as you show up!
I reached the burnout stage before the last T'ville get together and I am just now starting to get back into the groove.
I have 16google things to do on the bus and just haven't been able to do it. Now I'm starting to perk back up a bit.
I've never considered selling the old girl, but have considered sending her to a scrapper to make bobbypins and toothpicks.
Now that's passed for the moment and I am at work again.
Quote from: DavidInWilmNC on September 28, 2006, 08:29:47 AM
Then I'll make a bed frame. Next I'll need some window coverings and a passenger seat. Hopefully, I'll have the most basic water system installed (no tanks). (although it's gonna be scary).
David.
"Passenger seat"....lawn chair. "Bed"....air mattress. "Window coverings"....not necessary (old bedsheet if you must)! ;)
The bus needs exercise!
Lookin for you at T'ville!
JR
Brian,
I sold my bus a couple of months ago. It was sad to see it go, but something that is not making you happy is not a blessing, it's a curse. In my case, I loved my bus, but had no where to store it while I live the nomadic lifestyle of a travelling government employee. Right now, my family and I are living in the beautiful Wilkes-Barre, PA area. I just got a promotion and I am a manager of a department. We are just going wherever life and the Lord leads us.
I have talked to so many people here who say, "why did you move to Wilkes-Barre" I reply, "This place is paradise. I live on top of a mountain, I drive down one mountain to drive up another one to go to work everyday. It's a long way from Mississippi, but anywhere is home as long as my wife and son are there."
My point...there is no such thing as "bad luck". Life is what you make it. If you always look on the negative side of things, you will always have regrets and depression. Instead of looking at this as a failure, think of it another way. At least you had the GUTS to try in the first place. So many people refuse to take a chance on anything, preferring to live their little boring lives and die at a ripe old age, with no decent memories to reflect on. So, maybe the bus thing didn't work out. Well, don't give up. Maybe selling your bus is not actually giving up, maybe it's just stepping back. Who knows, you may end up buying a fishing boat next, or taking up mule riding, or whatever. The point is, stop looking at yourself as a failure because things didn't work out like you planned this time. I have learned that things rarely ever work out like you planned. The happy man makes new plans and optimistically pursues them with his whole heart!
Bloom wherever you are planted. If you sell the bus, you will take a hit. But living a good life is not how successful we are, but rather how determined we are to succeed.
Chin up, buddy. 5 years from now, you won't care, one way or the other.
I hope everything works out for you, or rather, I hope you make everything work out for yourself.
Jimmy
I'm resurrecting an old thread here.
It was probably a darn good thing I didn't go on my trip since I sprung a good sized oil leak in the engine with only 250 miles driven since the day we were supposed to leave on the trip. The oil leak isn't fatal, but I wouldn't have wanted to drive another 3,750 miles without getting it fixed. (I was hoping by gettnig a Series 60 I wouldn't have issues like this!)
I mentioned that I have spent about $75k on my conversion to date and somebody wondered why I didn't buy something already converted for $75k. Two reasons I guess: 1. I thought I could do my conversion for around $60k and I WAY underestimated on that. 2. I would never find an already converted bus with bunks for $75k that has a Series 60 in it.
I'm a little bit frustrated as I still cannot get my entrance door to operate properly. I fixed the electrical problem, but now it won't lock which is an air thing, not electrical. I've talked to MCI tech assistance and they faxed me technical bulletins, but I simply cannot get it adjusted right. I am thinking I may need to stop at the MCI service center in Chicago on my way to BK's rally to get it fixed once and for all. The service manager assures me that he has mechanics who have experience fixing Dina entrance doors.
I will get to BK's rally one way or another. I hope I can get the oil leak on the bus fixed before I leave. If not, I will have to drive my car instead. Even if I take the bus, I may end up at a hotel for the evenings as I have no heat and no water plumbed in yet. I hope to get the water plumbing done over the next two weekends, but I also have to clean out my garage and pick up leaves before BK's rally.
Brian Elfert