Hello,
I have been dreaming for a while now of making a green home from a 20' ocean shipping container.
This would be a guest cabin with a small bathroom and kitchen area.
The plan would be to experiment with many of the ideas I've written about here before.
To make a house from a shipping container, I would need to get a container to my house and be able to regularly move it to the area a few blocks away where I can park it overnight without disturbing people.
At first I thought about buying a Class 8 semi truck and a traditional shipping container chassis. I live in San Francisco, CA.
I called a couple of insurance companies today to find out how much it would cost to insure a non commercial Class 8 semi truck and a container chassis. I got a quote from Progressive of about $3,300 per year! This is just too much, since I would probably only put 500 miles a year on the combo. I would also need to get a non-commercial Class A license. I found a truck driving school that would train me for only $595, and they said it would take only 4 hours!
This is a non commercial pet project of mine, so these expenses are just a lot of money. A semi truck might be $5,000, the container chassis might be $3,000 and the shipping container might be $2,500. Add in $3,300 for insurance, and this is getting pretty expensive before I even start work on the dwelling.
Then I thought of an idea I want to run by you:
I can buy a 40' front engine school bus for around $3,000.
Then I could cut off much of the passenger compartment and recycle it.
Then I could weld some supports to the frame so that I would have 4 corner supports matched to where a 20' shipping container would sit if it were placed on the bus frame.
I could use the same corner supports found on an actual container chassis trailer, so a container could be attached to the bus frame by the same solid twist lock attachment method as is used by semi truck drivers.
The result is I would have a bus with a box on the back that could be removed at will by a forklift or crane.
I would think this would qualify as a motorhome once I install the stove, fridge and toilet inside the container. Thus, I can skip the class A license and the very costly semi truck insurance. I got a quote from AAA today for my car and a random EBay school bus. The rate was less than insuring just my car! They explained this by saying that by adding the school bus I got a multi-vehicle discount. In effect, I can insure a 40' school bus at less than zero cost -- they will be paying me.
If the DMV won't count the shipping container as part of the vehicle since it's removable with the twist of 4 corner connectors, I could leave 5 feet of the original bus passenger compartment and put a minimal duplicate motorhome installation in there. Then the vehicle would still be a motorhome even without the shipping container on the back.
The cost savings of doing the above are dramatic, especially over the years, since I will pay less than zero for insurance and can use my Class C license.
I am wondering how to cut off the majority of the bus passenger compartment. Can I just use a sawzall to just start removing manageable chunks by myself until I'm done? As I understand it, school buses are just passenger compartments on truck frames, and the passenger compartment can be cut away without ruining the truck frame.
Does anyone have an idea how much the passenger compartment weighs? A shipping container is about 4,500 pounds (20' long). I found info on the Internet that suggests an empty 40' school bus weighs about 19,000 pounds and has a GVWR rating of about 30,000 pounds. I would guess the passenger compartment might weigh 3,000 pounds, so I could add a container plus extras weighing about 14,000 pounds without going over the GVWR.
I would hope the total length could be closer to 30 or 35 feet, so the container would not overhang the rear wheels as much as a passenger compartment does.
I would think a school bus based platform would be easier to drive than a semi - trailer combination, and that repairs would be cheaper since the engine in school buses seem to be smaller than found in a full fledged semi truck. Even if the engine blew up, I could buy another school bus cheaply to just get the engine from it.
One downside is a school bus based platform will look funny and attract more attention than a semi and container chassis, but I think I can deal with that.
One important point I want to make: This crazy idea is to enable me to experiment and learn about building a home from a shipping container, which I am extremely interested in. I still have and will continue to convert my RTS bus conversion.
I can't just put a shipping container in my backyard because there's no obvious place for one, and the crane charge is $4,500 each visit.
Comments?
Thank you,
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
I use 20' shipping pods for our outdoor festivals they weigh 8,000 lbs w/ ac unit
If I understand you right, You want to take a shipping container and put the front and rear sections of a school bus on it , am i close ;D, Why not nothing ventured nothing gained. I would think you going to need some pretty stout iron to support the container and then built a frame that the two halfs can be tied to the container. Sounds like a worth while project.I have mated front ends of cars before takes some time and a lot of measurement but sounds like you got the time. Iam just thinking out loud here. 8)
No, I want to put a 20' container on the back of a school bus, as if the school bus were a flat bed truck. The driver area of the bus will be untouched.
An empty 20' steel container without an AC unit is 4,850 pounds, per this link:
http://www.shipping-container-housing.com/shipping-container-standard-dimensions.html (http://www.shipping-container-housing.com/shipping-container-standard-dimensions.html)
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
Neat ideas.
The school bus body is not going to yield easily, it just might be able to go head to head with the shipping container in ease of cutting up.
Arrange to buy a school bus from a local bus company as it drives into the yard from its last school run, not one that has sat around.
For the DMV, get that "bus" word off the title. Do whatever it is they need you to do to change the registration to truck or RV or whatever your insurer wants to see on there. Seat removal is all you need for "truck", "RV" depends on jurisdiction and the whims of the counter staff.
After that, keep your flap firmly shut about all the rest of it, you'll just make trouble for yourself by confusing or scaring them.
You don't want them thinking you are up to no good and misrepresenting yourself.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Oh I got it lol Iam such a dunch sometimes Sure go for it
Here's a link to the kind of bus I have in mind.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/2340986870.html (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/2340986870.html)
Imagine cutting off the passenger compartment 5 feet behind the back of the driver's seat, and putting the 20' shipping container right there. Then, shorten the bus frame if it extends beyond the other end of the 20' container. My guess is the overall vehicle length will be 30' when done, so 10' for the driver.
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
I have access to both a plasma cutter and an oxyacetylene torch. I don't know how to use the plasma cutter but I do know how to use the torch. However, I've only used one for a few cuts in plain, clean 3/8" steel. How does it work on painted metal like the passenger compartment of a bus? What kind of special respirator might I need to wear so I don't breath burning paint fumes?
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
Go check at a scrap yard how they deal with school buses, no easy way.
Depending on the construction methods, hundreds/thousands of fasteners to remove, judicious use of the hammering air chisel, many sawzall blades, insulation and whatever goop and plastics are in there, lots of torch gas, fumes and fire, and then,
you get to start on the next panel.
Be sure your time/effort and expense estimates are informed!
A buddy of mine thought an old 6 wheeler school bus would make a great donor frame for a late 40's White truck body he had, due to the flat frame it had. He found out the hard way that they don't come apart as easy as it looks. They are tanks.
It was so long in the making, and so long ago... I wonder if it ever got finished?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Well your also going to need a welder either a 200 amp buzz box or wire feed. as far as the plasma cutter it's like cutting butter it's fast. You might want to do a little practice before you start cutting. A torch is slower but in the hands of an expert same results. as far as a resperator I would go to your local welding supply shop and ask them.
You want to make sure you have all meteriels that can lite off out of the Bus for sure. scripe your lines wiht soap stone or something that you can see and measure measure measure as many time as it takes to make sure your making the right cut.
Bare in mind Iam no expert just alot of doing it my self stuff. Chopper Scott is the one to ask ;D
I know someone that did something similar except he cut open the schoolie and attached a travel trailer to the frame. Sort of an instant bus conversion.
I have access to a lot of tools, including MIG and TIG welders in the 225 amp range, courtesy of my membership in TechShop, which is a healthclub like membership workshop. I pay $99 a month but get access to their $750,000 worth of tools. They have an outside area where I can park the bus while I work on it. If you're near a TechShop, I recommend a visit. You'll be drooling.
http://techshop.ws/ (http://techshop.ws/)
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
Why not mount the shipping container on a two axle heavy duty trailer? If you have access to a real good 3/4 or 1 ton pickup, it may be the easiest and cheapest of all. When you are done with the container renovation, sell the trailer.
OTOH, there are several former schoolies in our area that have found a new life.
Grain truck, tire-service truck, tow truck. All had the passenger compartment shortened dramatically, but all used the rear wall of the bus body as the rear wall of the cab.
There's also at least one International bus that had the entire body removed and a regular International cab was installed to make a real truck.
I saw it in a couple of different stages of work, but never saw the finished product. It had been licensed, safetied and was gone.
Well hell your good to have fun . Thats a neet idea
On dog-nosed school buses they come to the bus builder as a cab and two long frame rails. The bus body unbolts, and you can lift the whole thing off in one piece if you wanted to. Make a nice cabin, or chicken coop, in its own right.
This is great news that the passenger compartment can be lifted off a dog nose school bus! Would it be clear where to cut to separate the driver cab from the back compartment?
Is this the way all dob nose school buses are built, or only before or after a certain year?
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
The dog nose chassis go to the bus builder with the hood and the steering wheel sticking out into space. The rest is added on.
You'd have to get under neath and intimate with the particular bus to choose the right place to cut in relation to the frame attachment points.
There's more to them than what attaches a truck body, as body/frame separation in a collision would fail the code.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Forget schoolies I would get an old international straight truck with a DT466 and put the container on the back.. Schoolies are much better built than most busnuts think. especially a Bluebird. My opinion... Mike/
If I get a truck, won't I be forced into 'commercial truck insurance' which is what I'm trying to avoid by using a school bus, which, don't forget, has a negative cost to insure with AAA. Just so you can see the numbers:
My car plus a 40' school bus, per year, in San Francisco proper: $1,213
My car alone: $1,300+
Car is 2001 BMW 525i
The above quote is for $500K liability on car and bus, plus full comp and collision on car.
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
something fishy, the word "Bus" puts insurance through the roof, comparatively.
Better get some clarification as to the details of what they think that other vehicle from your car is.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I am pretty sure I am right when I say as long as the truck/bus is 26,000 pounds or less it is under the DOT weight. (DOT kicks in at 26,001 or more.)
Jack
Kevin, if you put an ISO shipping container on the frame rails of a typical skoolie, what about the rear wheel arches? Some other things to think about:
1. Shipping containers are immensely strong when they're supported by their twist-lock corners, but don't have anywhere near as much strength elsewhere. You absolutely must support it by its corners, and not elsewhere.
2. I've bought 13 containers so far at work for storage, seven 40' and six 20', and when positioning them on the ground we found they had to be shimmed at their corners to prevent them twisting if the ground was even slightly uneven. The slightest twist means that the doors won't close or open easily, if at all, and won't have the completely airtight seal they should have. (Have you ever seen pictures of containers that have fallen off ships in bad weather? The darn things float for so long that they are considered a shipping hazard, and have to be dealt with by salvage companies or the coastguard! When I worked on a gas platform in the North Sea we had a 20' container slide off the back of our supply boat as it was being offloaded, and it bobbed about in the sea for an hour or two until our standby boat could put a line on it and tow it back to the platform. When we eventually opened its doors there was hardly any water in it!)
3. Most skoolie bodies are attached by substantial bolted hangers to the frame rails, so it's not a major job to disembody them. (However, don't try this with Crowns or Gilligs - their bodies are welded to the frame rails to make massively strong integral structures, so there's no easy way to take one of them apart!) Even with this fairly basic construction technique, skoolies are still the toughest people-carriers on the road. Have you seen videos of skoolie destruction races - they survive even deliberate ramming and crashes without too much serious structural failure.
4. Some of the imaginative and fearless folk on the Skoolie forum have done, or have seen examples of others doing, serious reconstruction jobs, such as carrying a Mercedes Unimog on the back of a cut-down skoolie, or putting a logging crane and stake-bed platform on the rear half of a skoolie (imagine a log-carrying school bus!). There's really very little one cannot do to them, and they're cheap enough that if it all goes wrong you scrap it and buy another to try again!
Good luck, John
Most straight trucks that have what I am talking about DT466 engine , hydrualic brakes can be rented by Ryder or budget. and driven by class F drivers. A school bus is still a commercial vehicle and you need a schoolbus endorsement to drive one if registered as one which takes a class "B" liscense and that requires general knowledge plus a passenger endorsement then a Schoolbus endorsement. Where anyone can rent a moving truck from ryder or Penske. They have a DT466 and hydrualic brakes. When you get into airbrakes it gets sticky. BUT!! in Mo and South Dakota my buses are registered as motorhomes and the insurance is like 300 a year for me. Even though I possess a class B lisence as I was a schoolbus driver. I still have my buses registered as motorhomes. If you get a straight truck with hydrualic brakes it is a truck and the word "BUS" never enters the conversation and you would be much further ahead. And an international 4800 chassis with a DT 466 would be more than enough for your project. The DT466 is one hell of an engine!!!!! If you want to build something that won't use a bus as what it is than go with a truck frame it is easier to find a shop that will repair it and the word bus won't make your costs more than you can afford. My advice. I love buses for what they are that is why I have them. But what you want to do you would be MUCH better off with a straight truck then cutting a bus apart to make basically a truck. I mean that is what you will end up doing by cutting a bus down to the floor and all that mess. Worse comes to worse spend 10 G for an old tractor and ad some frame to it and then install the container. But again I would just get a straight truck and be done with it. Easier in the long run cheaper in the long run and less trouble than cutting a bus apart. Mike
I was very clear with AAA today when getting the quote. I told them it's a 40' yellow school bus over and over. I expressed shock that the price to insure the bus conversion plus my BMW was less than just the BMW. We went over that several times as I was so shocked. GMAC wanted $529 per 6 months to insure just the bus conversion!
I will call on Monday to find out how much a Class 7 truck would cost to insure, but I suspect it won't be less than zero, like a school bus conversion with AAA appears to be.
Yes, I would love to just buy a truck and drop a container on the bed and be almost done with it... but not if I have to pay a lot for insurance. Remember the quote was $3,300 per year for a Class 8 truck and chassis trailer. Ouch.
Thanks for all these fantastic comments.
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
With regard to supporting the container by its 4 corner posts, yes, I will have to fabricate supports that clear the rear wheels of the bus.
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
When a bus is retitled a motorhome the insurance rate drops dramatically.
How about when a Class 7 or Class 8 truck is retitled to a motorhome? Does the insurance also drop dramatically?
TomC, how much is your truck conversion insurance, may I ask?
Maybe that's the trick to using a medium duty truck affordably... titling it a motorhome after I drop the shipping container on the back and outfit the container with living quarters.
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
Quote from: Kevin Warnock on April 22, 2011, 09:12:06 PM
When a bus is retitled a motorhome the insurance rate drops dramatically.
How about when a Class 7 or Class 8 truck is retitled to a motorhome? Does the insurance also drop dramatically?
TomC, how much is your truck conversion insurance, may I ask?
Maybe that's the trick to using a medium duty truck affordably... titling it a motorhome after I drop the shipping container on the back and outfit the container with living quarters.
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My RTS has a GVWR at 36000 LBS and it wieghs in at 27000 LBS unlaiden weight. I PAY ABOUT 300 a year for insurance and it is registered as a motorhome. I would rtegister it as a motorhome and be done with it. I think that is the best way to go. 2500.00 for a truck like the one I showed you with a Cummins m11 and the truck chassis with the tranny and all is about the best you will do. He is in Calif as I think you are. That is the cheapest you will ever do and 300 HP is enough for what you want and much lighter than an 8v71 or any Detroit 2 stroke. Plus you are way ahead 2500 for a truck frame and cab and all that this guy is offering. Go for it!!!! I would if I lived in Calif!!! I think you need to get that truck. Mike.
Anyone have any idea how much a truck conversion costs to insure?
I am wondering if the shipping container is really appropriate for what you want. From my limited experience with them, I have found them to be extremely rigid. Vehicle bodies as on trucks and buses flex. You can jack up one corner, and the other three stay on the ground. If you jack up one corner of the shipping container, one of the two adjacent corners also lifts so in essence you lift one entire side. Is it really a good idea to permanently attach a structure with such rigidity to a vehicle frame that can torque and flex?
That's an interesting point about flexing.
I am now looking over the various 'truck nut' sites.
Looks like the $3,300 insurance quote I got for a Class 8 truck plus a container chassis might have been far higher than it needed to be.
I think what I might need to do is register a Class 8 truck as a motorhome, which is not what I explained I would be doing to Progressive today. Then, with Class 8 truck motorhome, I think I could tow a shipping container on a chassis as a 5th wheel. Maybe all I need to do is spot weld the container to the chassis so it's really a true 5th wheel travel trailer.
What do you think?
I think a container on a container chassis might still flex, but I doubt it will be an issue at all, since the container will be so light compared to what a true container chassis can handle.
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
Kevin, Im in awe of the way your mind works! You are always coming up with neat ideas! Keep us updated on the insurance deal and this idea for another project.
[quote Maybe all I need to do is spot weld the container to the chassis so it's really a true 5th wheel travel trailer.
[/quote]
How many 5th wheel bodies are welded to their chassis? I would hazard a guess at zero. The standard 4 corner latches should be sufficient.
Quote from: Kevin Warnock on April 22, 2011, 09:26:22 PM
Anyone have any idea how much a truck conversion costs to insure?
Kevin, My be Tom C, will have that answer, I believe he is doing a truck conversion. If that's not correct
I apologize.
Steve 5B.....
Quote from: Iceni John on April 22, 2011, 08:48:03 PM
... (Have you ever seen pictures of containers that have fallen off ships in bad weather? The darn things float for so long that they are considered a shipping hazard, and have to be dealt with by salvage companies or the coastguard! When I worked on a gas platform in the North Sea we had a 20' container slide off the back of our supply boat as it was being offloaded, and it bobbed about in the sea for an hour or two until our standby boat could put a line on it and tow it back to the platform. When we eventually opened its doors there was hardly any water in it!)
Shipping containers and sleeping whales are the biggest hazzards in ocean yacht racing, and have been responsible for more sinkings and deaths than you can imagine. Both are invisible to radar and very difficult to spot by the naked eye, especially when a racing yacht is travelling at 25knots at night and on autopilot. If the yacht isn't holed, it loses it's keel and capsizes, usually 1000 miles from land. Then it floats about long enough for someone to find it and take photo.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smh.com.au%2Fffximage%2F2005%2F01%2F13%2Fskandia_wideweb__430x259.jpg&hash=6a9cd9e692b350657cdf69eac75b185449057251)
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Jeremy
(Sorry - completely bus-less post)
Kevin, I know you made it quite clear to AAA what you were thinking of buying. However, the person that you were speaking to might not have fully grasped it. I live in Antioch, and have AAA. I have 3 cars, a work truck, and homeowners with AAA. I have every discount imaginable and they would not insure my bus. I have had auto insurance with them since 1976 without an accident, and homeowners since 1990 with no claims. I tried everything I could and was told they do not insure conversions of any kind. I have Progressive and am very happy. I hope it works out for you. Just make sure they will write a policy before you make a decision based on them.
Good Luck,
Mike
Yes, I was shocked that AAA was so eager to cover a school bus conversion.
Progressive won't cover school bus conversions, to my knowledge. Progressive insures my RTS conversion.
I have pretty much decided against cutting up a school bus, since I discovered since my original post that I can get a Class 7 or Class 8 truck titled as a motorhome and will then pay reasonable insurance rates, not the $3,300 type rates.
What I need help with now is how do I get a container chassis plus attached container to be considered a 5th wheel 'travel trailer' that's insurable at motorhome rates.
On the Heavy Duty Truck to motorhome board, some advise that to title a Class 7 or Class 8 truck as a motorhome it's advisable to remove the air lines to the trailer. It's also apparently advisable to remove the commercial 5th wheel hitch and replace it with one for consumer sticks and staples 5th wheel travel trailers. However, I need those air lines and the commercial hitch, since the container chassis will require them. I also want an air ride chassis so I can install a campground leveling system that uses the air bags, just like my RTS conversion. My sense is there must be a way to still get what I propose titled correctly for low insurance rates. Any ideas?
Thank you for all the great advice.
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
Kevin we have a toter home. Freightlinner chassi with a 12ft living quarters fully self contained Titled as a RV. Then 5th wheel to pull our steam engines with. cost us 750 a year. Bob
Will the city allow you to keep what essentially is a commercial vehicle at your home? I know around where I live some cities require commercial vehicles to be kept inside if you park at home. Yours may be titled as a motorhome, but I doubt that will stop the city from seeing it as a commercial vehicle.
Anyone have any idea how much a truck conversion costs to insure?
Our truck conversion: $724.00 per year with Progressive.
http://www.ustruckin.blogspot.com/ (http://www.ustruckin.blogspot.com/)
Gary ,our's was a full size semi with one axle dropped & frame stretch and a custom box built in Elkhart with a 5th wheel to pull steam engine. It is $750 a year at Allstate $500 deductible with towing & uninsured motorist etc.
I guess im confused. Why buy a school Bus and tear the body off to install a container to convert into liveable space, when you could just as easily convert the Bus itself. You would save yourself a mountain of work, a mountain of money, have much more room, and would be parkable as is and be a bonified Bus Conversion. Old School buses are cheap, you could buy several for the cost of one container.
Art, it was my understanding that mainly he wanted the container to be movable from location to location and taken off the truck to sit on the ground. The reason he was looking at making a school bus into a motorhome is because of insurance costs opposed to getting a freightliner....
Once you park the the trailer, where do you park the truck?
They make these nice movable prefabs, about two-thirds the length of a single wide. Check 'em out.
Truck conversion and bus conversion insurance costs are almost the same. They are both converted to a "motorhome", that is the key.
My liability cost is very small compared to Comprehensive and Collision. $63 for liability; vs $505 and $194 for Comp and Col
Quote from: happycamperbrat on April 23, 2011, 09:04:49 PM
Art, it was my understanding that mainly he wanted the container to be movable from location to location and taken off the truck to sit on the ground. The reason he was looking at making a school bus into a motorhome is because of insurance costs opposed to getting a freightliner....
I understood what he said, I just dont understand why. If the only purpose for the Bus is to move the container, you could just as easily drive the Bus down there and park it. No?
Quote from: artvonne on April 23, 2011, 10:00:24 PM
I understood what he said, I just dont understand why. If the only purpose for the Bus is to move the container, you could just as easily drive the Bus down there and park it. No?
The purpose isn't to build a motorhome. The purpose is to experiment with building a home inside a shipping container - which he needs to be able to move about.
There's lots of stuff on the internet about people building homes inside shipping containers - it's an attractive concept. Using only a single 20' container would make for a pretty small home though.
Jeremy
Talkin' about thinking outside, (Or is it inside ) the box! ;D
JACK
Kevin,
Have you considered a roll-off type truck for your project?
Roll-off is excellent idea, most all of the storage company's use them for delivery. However one would need to consider the build out weight. Also here is another idea and link. The same would have to be considered with weight.
Fred
http://www.kingequipment.com/cow.htm (http://www.kingequipment.com/cow.htm)
THANK YOU TO THIS BOARD AND EVERYONE WHO HELPED ME ON THIS QUESTION!
After reviewing the answers here, I really looked into making a proper 'truck conversion' with a medium duty truck chassis like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-International-4700-Cab-and-Chassis-/290556384359?pt=Commercial_Trucks&hash=item43a6829467#ht_772wt_1005 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-International-4700-Cab-and-Chassis-/290556384359?pt=Commercial_Trucks&hash=item43a6829467#ht_772wt_1005)
I would attach a 20' shipping container to the frame, perhaps by making cross beams that mirror what you find on a shipping container chassis trailer.
The low cost insurance trick is to attach the container permanently, which I can do by welding the corners to their attachment points, in addition to using the traditional twist locks, which will be doing the actual holding of the container.
If I permanently attach the container and add living quarters to the container, the insurance rate I was quoted via Progressive was just $376 a year for $500,000 liability plus $40K of collision/comprehensive coverage, with a $250 deductible. This is with my San Francisco city zip code! That's less than I pay Progressive for my RTS bus conversion!
This $376 rate is about 1/10th the annual cost if I were to use a class 7 tractor with a container chassis attached as a 5th wheel. Progressive wanted about $3,300 per year for that combination!
I spoke with an International dealer today, and he said the 4700 straight truck weighs about 10,000 lbs empty. The model I would buy has a GVWC of 26,000 pounds, so I will be able to drive it empty to take it to a shop to have the cross beams added to accept the container. I will have about 16,000 pounds of capacity to add the cross beams and the container and contents, which should be enough to do a high quality and attractive job.
If and when I decide it's done, I can grind out the welds and have a crane remove the container and set it in my backyard. I can then sell the truck frame and probably not loose much at all along the way.
So, here's a new question: What's the 'best' truck frame, engine and transmission combination for what I want to do? I've been told the DT466 engine with a manual 7 speed transmission is ideal.
Thank you.
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
Kevin, I had a DT466 mechanical and a 5 speed with two speed rear end in my toter home. The DT466 is a very reliable engine but not a world beater. I think mine was 210HP. The 5 + 2 was fun to drive, but you had to keep your mind on what you were doing. Gears for most any situation.
I also drove a company truck with and electronic DT466 and 7 speed. The electronic engine was also not a world beater, but the 7 speed was a slick transmission. Could shift almost any gear without the clutch. Did not drive it mountains, but I think it would have been fine there.
By far, the IHC product would be your best bet and their are a ton of them around.
You are not going to use it as a motorhome, but they are kind of rough riding with pure spring suspension. I built air bag suspensions for both the front and rear of mine and that helped.
Jim
I cannot figure out the insurance deal here AAA is going to write it with Progressive they have on everything I have with them.
It is not going to be a bus any longer when you modify it to a roll off neat idea but questionable to me
good luck
what about this
I am not interested in using a conventional box truck box for this project, because you can't stack truck boxes like you can shipping containers.
If my prototype turns out well, I may well stack two or three. You can't do this with mobile homes or buses, thus this crazy project.
Anyone know a source for used shipping container twist lock connectors, or, even better, the cross support bars from a container chassis, with the twist lock connectors intact? Are there junk yards for container chassis parts? I did find an online source that sold used axles for container chassis.
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
check your heavy truck wrecking yards container haulers crash hard & often!
;D BK ;D
Im a little confused about your project now, could you fill me in on some details? Ive seen these box cars stacked on ground with openings and stairs and they make for very unique living...... But are you thinking about moving them around and then parking and stacking? Im getting confused now with the whole "mobile" and "stacking" concept? What are you planning?
After reading all the posts... no one has mentioned putting front axle n rear powerplant on a shipping container and making a motor home out of it? Don't forget the windshield... ;D
If your plan is to stack the container on a chassis and be mobile, it won't be possible. A "high cube" container on a standard container chassis is about 13 feet tall. The tallest you can transport on the interstate system is 13ft 6in. Now if you are going to ground them you can stack them very high. They do use corner locks when they stack them on trains but in the yards I think they just stack them on top of each other.
Use a 20' box from a delivery truck. Same dimensions, MUCH lighter and easier to work with and can be removable. Easy to find used and price is about the same or less. I have mounted a few on the back of class 8 trucks to convert them to RV style race car pullers. My 2 centavos.....
I am sure you have Googled and found stuff like this: http://www.shippingcontainerhousedesign.com/ (http://www.shippingcontainerhousedesign.com/)
I found a source for the shipping container twist locks:
http://www.tandemloc.com/0_securing/s_N2501BA.asp (http://www.tandemloc.com/0_securing/s_N2501BA.asp)
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
I have a 8' and a 20' aluminum delivery truck boxes for some storage... much much lighter than my neighbors 40' steel containers, and at least i can move mine with the forklift, not the cat...
Good luck Kevin!!!!!! I dig your thinking!!! ;D I was really liking your idea of using a bus (cause I love them and think they are an under utilized resource). I have also been intrigued with building with containers for several years. It helps that I have a welding and fab shop that would make that venture much easier. ;D
The ideas and designs are only limited by one's mind. They are a kin to Lego's!! ;D ;D ;D The other folks that keep recommending other containers must not have looked up all the great and cool ideas and designs you can do with containers. (Condo's, dorms, apartments, etc.) They really are diamonds in the rough. I've did some designing in my head at one time and it so cool what a person can do with them. Especially when you get a little further into it using hydraulics, etc. for some fun stuff! To have a bus and travel part of the year and a cool container house to come home to would be very cool!! ;)
PLEEEEESE, please please keep us posted!! I can't wait to see how it turns out. Wish I would have gotten on this thread a little earlier but it looks like you have most everything covered by now. Oh...a plasma cutter will become your best friend!! I have used both Oxy/acet and plasma for many years and it will be the hot ticket - no pun intended!! ::)
I'm so inspired again I may have to do some surfing and see if there is anything new out there in container building. ;D ::)
Keep creating!
Chaz
May repeat good stuff already answered as I haven't read all the posts on this excellent thread. Nearly sold my '74 Crown Supercoach 40-foot 10-wheeler to a water well drilling company as they needed a well column tender immediately.
They would have just installed a small "headache" rack next the front dashboard and cut a big round hole in the rear bulkhead connecting the interior to the rear trunk and several ''bungs" mounted thru the floor to the main frame in the middle floor. Seat mostly removed.
Then they could have easily hauled over 12 tons of 33 foot well casings in the Coach! 24000 empty; 47000 gvw. Sounds like you want to make a "roll off" container hauler out of a school bus. Sounds cool to me. How about adding rollers and tail gate ramps also? HB of CJ (old coot)
Wow! 24000 empty; 47000 gvw! 23,000 pounds of capacity!!! That's a lot.
I've decided to go with a truck, not a school bus. The reason is that Progressive will not insure school buses at all. But they will insure truck conversions - and the whole thing... not just the chassis. If I insure a school bus with GMAC, they will only cover liability, and the price for that is higher than Progressive wants to insure a truck conversion with liability and comprehensive. So this all argues strongly for using a truck.
One other big advantage to using a flatbed truck is that they can come with a tailgate lift, which would be very helpful to have to load appliances into the container. Also, if I ever had a wheelchair bound visitor, they could be strapped to the lift to be brought onboard. Does anyone know if letting a person use a truck tailgate lift is a violation of some rule or law?
Thanks,
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
Here's a couple things to consider. If you want to stack the containers the corner locks are different than the ones used on the chassis. I found them on the link you posted under "tiedowns". They look like a two sided twist lock.
If you are going to use a 20 foot box, there are two different roof heights. The "standard" container is only 8 ft 6 in tall. The "high cube" is 9 ft 6 in tall. If you check the outside of most containers you will see either 8.6 (standard) or 9.6 Hi cube. The larger boxes (40-53 ft) are all high cube. The standard will get you under low overpasses easier but you do lose some head room. The high cube will be about 13 feet tall on a standard chassis.
You might want to think about finding a used or wrecked chassis to canibalize parts from or just attach to the frame of the truck. This will make your engineering job a little easier. The chassis are pretty simple in design so you shouldn't have any trouble making it work on a straight truck.
Finally, these boxes can be very top heavy and are prone to flipping (especially when overloaded with freight all the way to the ceiling) so remember to be careful when turning corners or you will need the services of a wrecker to set you back on your wheels.
Also, most of the boxes are treated with an insecticide. You may want to make sure that what ever is used is not harmful to humans. I think they used to use chlordane...which kills everything that moves and has been banned by the US EPA. Just a thought.
Sorry about the length of the post. If you have any questions about containers just give me a shout. I have hauled thousands of them in and out of the "Windy City" rail heads for many years.
Uh oh... please tell me more about the containers being treated with insecticide. Do I need to remove the wood floor to start 'fresh?' I would hate to slowly poison myself.
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
I don't remember exactly what the tag on the back of the boxes said but I do clearly remember on the back doors was a tag that said the box had been sprayed/fumigated with insecticide. I seem to remember chlordane but that may have changed. I don't know how often they get fumigated but they all had that same "smell" that I always figured was the bug dope. You could probably pressure wash the can and be ok but I would talk to someone with more knowledge than I have. Swing through a truck stop and you will see containers and they all have the sign...on the right door I think.
I have to wonder if it is a problem since all sorts of freight, including food stuffs are shipped in those containers but the people that load/unload are only in the boxes briefly.
Quote from: Kevin Warnock on April 30, 2011, 08:11:49 PM
Wow! 24000 empty. . .
If 24,000 means lbs empty weight, that's either a mistake or a custom very heavy container.
An opinion:
There was a point in time when containers were dirt cheap.
Port cities were plugged with 'em, scrap prices were down, and the container reutilization market had not yet grown. However, today, almost all that was going for reutilizing containers then, is against 'em now.
My opinion is that if a person is somehow involved in the container business, and has access to containers at minimal purchase and transportation cost, then they could be reutilized for some basic industrial applications. But otherwise, unless being mobile, modular, and stackable are a very high priority that's worth a premium to the end use, heavily reworked containers are not a particular value.
Just to support my statements, I'll mention that I once ventured into the container reutilization game. Although I had storage property, containers, and the equipment and manpower to move and modify them, unfortunately, I found that except for needs that closely matched the container's original application of basic secure mobile and modular storage, other uses were just not practical. We even tried airplane hangers! LOL Basically we found that unless the containers were somehow very inexpensive (in total cost) it almost always seemed that some better less expensive alternatives were available; at least here in the "land of plenty" US. Granted, things could be different elsewhere.
While at first glance it may seem practically idyllic to reutilize an "old" container, believe it, there are a lot of devils in the details, as Kevin Warnock is finding.
Ted
I don't know how the project got on but a friend of mine was contracted to turn a container in to a portable bar. The concept was to just drop it, plug it in, and start serving at a venue of any type. (that allowed booze)
Brice
I do want to eventually stack the container homes 5 high, like they do successfully in Amsterdam. I don't know of any other relatively cheap way to allow for that.
I also want to be able to move them with a crane, since when I'm done traveling with it, I want to put it in my backyard. I live right in the center of San Francisco, so the only way to accomplish that is by crane over the top of my two story house. There is not enough room between the houses here to take one in the side way. I suppose a really heavy duty helicopter could also work, but I'm pretty sure a crane is cheaper and safer. The quote I got from Sheedy Crane Company was $4,500 including all city permits and crane company workers to direct traffic during the lift.
Finally, I love the fact that containers can be quite resistant to earthquakes, and, I'm guessing, tornados, provided they're anchored properly. Does anyone know for sure about tornado resistance? With all the tornados in the news recently, I'm particularly curious.
I learned today that containers still can cost $1,000 each, but you have to buy from the shipping line directly, not a middleman. I don't yet know if that means I have to buy in large quantity. For my first test, I will probably just pay the $2,500 retail here in San Francisco, California.
Thanks again for all the great comments. I really have learned quite a bit here.
Kevin Warnock
http://kevinwarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com) - my blog
Kevin, here a 20' is 2100.00 and a 40' is 2900.00 but that's thru a middle man. Im in the market for one for my backyard for storage. I think the place to get them direct is in Long Beach, if you order direct down there and have them sent to San Fran let me know....... I will order one as well to be dropped off in route to San Fran This "could" help both of us.....
Up here 20' ones are more expensive than 40' ones! :D lot's of people have room for a little storage container, no one has room for a forty footer...
Brian