and say a prayer for my wife and I. We are leaving out of here in a few hours bound for the round up in Freer, Texas. It will be the first long trip we have run on vegetable oil.
To keep this story short I can tell you this has been an epic uphill battle trying to finish the system. The system itself was not bad but the tank I am using to store the oil in has been a bear to say the least. To keep it short the tank is still not ready after 14 months and 2 different welders.
Ready or not we are going. With that tank not being finished I will have to stop every 100 miles and hand crank stored oil to feed the installed heated tank. Yes it will be a pain in the hiney but I have 500 miles to go and I am not leaving the 10 cent a gallon fuel at home and paying $4.00 at the pumps.
So if you would blink an eye to the sky and wish us luck.
Luck!! and awaiting report some day on how to escape pit falls with this method. Will it work on electronic engines? Good Luck that is!!
If I am following you too close will I smell french fries or eggrolls??? :D :D :D
Steve Toomey
PAbusnut
"Former WVO burner" & "Aromatic Exhaust Creator"
it will probably be $5.00 on the way back ;D
Wishing you the best! (Actually bowed and said a Prayer!)
Jack
Well dern it!!!! Right after I posted this I called a friend of mine who has a humongous ranch in Freer. We were going to park at his place, visit and go do our bidding on Saturday morn. I told him we were headed his way and his reply was "Come on, I would love to visit but the round up isn't until next weekend". I swear I looked at the websight right but sure enough those were last years dates. SO I took a couple of hours just to clean the dirty old girl. So tomorrow we are heded to Easter weekend in Flatonia, Texas with the fam damily. I won't have to hand fill the small tank now as one filling will get me there and back.
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Quote from: pabusnut on April 22, 2011, 06:12:33 AM
If I am following you too close will I smell french fries or eggrolls??? :D :D :D
Steve Toomey
PAbusnut
"Former WVO burner" & "Aromatic Exhaust Creator"
It is an aromatic aroma now doubt, kind of a mix between french fries, chinese food, fried shrimp and whatever Pakistan people eat.
::)
Quote from: robertglines1 on April 22, 2011, 05:56:54 AM
Luck!! and awaiting report some day on how to escape pit falls with this method. Will it work on electronic engines? Good Luck that is!!
Robert I am not sure if heated wvo will work in electronic or not. We can dang sure find out. I did run mine for 22 miles on the system while testing the new valves. I don't want to jinx it but we should be good to go, especially when I get this tank BS over with.
Best of luck, a wing and a prayer. M&C ;D
Best of luck! You are taking off in a beautiful bus and going to have the time of your life, and get by very cheaply too! I want a FULL report of your trip too! My bus is down right now and part of the reason is because Im setting it up to run wvo too. I run bio in it now but I want to have the option of running svo as well.
I just filled up my little cobalt chevy and it was almost $60.00 for about 12 gallons :o But in that little car, it will take me about 400 miles.
As for the electronic engines..... sigh, I have read that the vo messes with the fuel sensors. I would be real careful (or real desparate) before trying this in that kind of engine.....
I am curious as to what kind of problems your having with the tanks and plumbing etc., can you explain???
Wayne you have a nice bus, but are you kidding me, with snake breaker.com. You work with rattlers and moccasins!? Thats your job?WOW!
Quote from: Pete359EX on April 22, 2011, 06:39:28 PM
Wayne you have a nice bus, but are you kidding me, with snake breaker.com. You work with rattlers and moccasins!? Thats your job?WOW!
Not so much Wow anymore. It is not my real job, but a side job. For my real job I am a Crime Scene Investigator. I used to be big time into training retrievers. I really wanted to do that for a living but it is a tough low paying job. Hard to make a living. I really am apposed to where the dog industry has headed. I like a good old fashioned family pet that will retrieve. I am trying to not type AKC here but I am apposed to how they run trials. A trainer has to train the dog right out of the dog. BEfore I get off on a tangent, I started training hunting dogs to stay away from rattlesnakes a long time ago. My wife and I intend to set up 2 clinics in each state twix here and California when I retire. We could make a supplement to the retirement and travel the whole southwest. An adventure!!! Oh and thank you for the compliment on the bus. She was pretty dusty before I put the wash job on it.
Quote from: artvonne on April 22, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
I am curious as to what kind of problems your having with the tanks and plumbing etc., can you explain???
"Welding" the tank is not the problem. Brother in law promising to have it done next week, 14 months ago is the problem. I finally said screw it and went to the shop and picked it up. I was kind of in a pickle barrel but enough was enough. So I take it to a local welder. I would do it but I don't have a TIG for aluminum. So 9 days ago I drop it off. It still isn't done!!!!!! They said they found a pin hole, translates into they blew a hole in it. That tank is cursed. I looked at a 300 gallon poly tank today. That has my interests up but it was 2 inches too tall to get into the bay. I would only put 200 gallons in but that is a later project.
Quote from: happycamperbrat on April 22, 2011, 04:08:04 PM
Best of luck! You are taking off in a beautiful bus and going to have the time of your life, and get by very cheaply too! I want a FULL report of your trip too! My bus is down right now and part of the reason is because Im setting it up to run wvo too. I run bio in it now but I want to have the option of running svo as well.
I just filled up my little cobalt chevy and it was almost $60.00 for about 12 gallons :o But in that little car, it will take me about 400 miles.
As for the electronic engines..... sigh, I have read that the vo messes with the fuel sensors. I would be real careful (or real desparate) before trying this in that kind of engine.....
Well thank you HCB! She looks good but If I would have waited I might have been able to purchase Luvrbus' beauty. The wow factor kind of got me when I bought it. The price was OK but If I had waited I could have gotten a whole lot better deal. The PO was also a liar. I have discovered all the reasons he was getting rid of it and failed to tell me. Notice the air scoop on the rear bay door. He told me he put it on to just get air into the bay. He did that because the genset is in there wrong and on really hot days it will heat it up and shut off. That is my next project. The other was he flat told me that he, his wife and 3 kids could travel in it for a week before dumping the 1 tank black and gray. LIAR. WE could barely get 24 hours and that was with as soon as the hot water came out of the shower, get wet and turn it off, soap up and rinse off. I put in a gray tank and things are right now. We can go 5 days without dumping the black tank and never have to dump the gray as it just goes to water the nearest tree. Yep I said it!! Another thing was the middle air unit. He said it worked fine but leaked once. ONCE!!!! Liar. I have had it at PP and L twice and they still have yet to fix it right.
And finally he said he never ever ever put Delo 400 in the oil pan. I was digging through some service records he gave me after I bought it and found every oil change was Delo 400 not 100. I changed it immediately and miraculously it stopped smoking out the tailpipe and I barely burn any oil at all now. This is why in the other thread I told you that you have a clean slate to do whatever you want to do. That baby is your baby. Have fun with it.
Quote from: wal1809 on April 22, 2011, 08:29:21 PM
Quote from: artvonne on April 22, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
Brother in law promising to have it done next week, 14 months ago is the problem. So I take it to a local welder 9 days ago. It still isn't done!!!!!! They said they found a pin hole, translates into they blew a hole in it. That tank is cursed.
You run into stuff like that too?
Quote from: artvonne on April 23, 2011, 04:42:04 AM
Quote from: wal1809 on April 22, 2011, 08:29:21 PM
Quote from: artvonne on April 22, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
Brother in law promising to have it done next week, 14 months ago is the problem. So I take it to a local welder 9 days ago. It still isn't done!!!!!! They said they found a pin hole, translates into they blew a hole in it. That tank is cursed.
You run into stuff like that too?
Oh yeah!!I can't call him and chomp on his butt because of my sister. I have to keep the peace and in the end it bit me. Next time I will know.
Are you still needing a shop to fix your tank right or start over? There is a shop by Hobby airport called Fabco that we used to make our aluminum coupling guards. They can build anything with aluminum.
A little tid bit for those interested in WVO. Yesterday was the first day I have seen the oil in my WVO tank. It has been settling for a while. I can tell you the oil that went in there was nothing short of freaky nasty. What came out the pipe and into the bus was pure gold. IT has only been run through 1 ten inch filter prior to bus entry. I tested for water and nada zip zero water. The point here is if anyone is about to venture off into the WVO world take this advice. You can buy an expensive centrifuge, you can work your butt off trying to dewater, you can do whatever, but earth's gravitational forces will do most of it if you let her.
Quote from: eddiepotts on April 23, 2011, 05:42:37 AM
Are you still needing a shop to fix your tank right or start over? There is a shop by Hobby airport called Fabco that we used to make our aluminum coupling guards. They can build anything with aluminum.
I appreciate it!! The shop I am using should be done Monday. We are a catholic community and they are the hub of it. They were fish frying and ect ect all week last week. He knew I was ticked because I told him, after all he aint married to my sister ;D
Quote from: wal1809 on April 23, 2011, 05:44:42 AM
A little tid bit for those interested in WVO. Yesterday was the first day I have seen the oil in my WVO processing tank. It has been settling for a while. I can tell you the oil that went in there was nothing short of freaky nasty. What came out the pipe and into the bus was pure gold. IT has only been run through 1 ten inch filter prior to bus entry. I tested for water and nada zip zero water. The point here is if anyone is about to venture off into the WVO world take this advice. You can buy an expensive centrifuge, you can work your butt off trying to dewater, you can do whatever, but earth's gravitational forces will do most of it if you let her.
So what your saying is you pick up the oil from the Pakistani Restaurant, park it in back of your shed to let it settle, then run it? How long??
You not going to let that fish fry oil get away, are you? Fish oil outta smell funky.
Curious, are you running oil, or grease? I mean, does it solidify like lard or crisco, or is it liquid at room temperature?
If you do get it from a Pakistani restaurant check your roof before you leave. You will probably have 12 workers on top of your bus hitching a ride home. ;D
Quote from: artvonne on April 23, 2011, 05:53:09 AM
So what your saying is you pick up the oil from the Pakistani Restaurant, park it in back of your shed to let it settle, then run it? How long??
You not going to let that fish fry oil get away, are you? Fish oil outta smell funky.
Curious, are you running oil, or grease? I mean, does it solidify like lard or crisco, or is it liquid at room temperature?
I am running vegetable oil. Cooking oil with fish is awesome. Very little free fatty acids. You want it liquid at room or barn temp. The oil I used today has been settling for 6 months because I never dreamed it would take this long to get it all done. I have 1500 gallons so the oil I am getting now will probably sit for 6 months. Tomorrow I will draw a sample of the oil in a glass jar, photograph it and post it.
Here you go with a pic of the golden juice. It looks nothing near like it did behind the restaurant.
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Well here is the official report. 100 miles round trip and not a hitch. I ran her up to 75 and she had a lot of peddle left in her. No need to roll that fast so I backed her down to 60 and just cruised. I couldn't tell any difference in the two fuels. Here we are somewhere west of Sealy, Texas on I-10.
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hmmm, Im kinda rethinking my "plan". You saw the room I have under my bus in the other thread... I wonder what would happen if I used ALL that space underneath for fuel tanks and put my water and gray and black all inside. I know I obviously would lose a lot of potential storage space, but.....
I intend in the future to install a 7 foot long/2 foot wide and 3 feet tall fuel tank. That will carry 200 gallons multiplied by 7 mpg is 1400 miles. Any further than that I will haul a trailer with a 300 gallon poly tank I picked up yesterday for FREE! With those 2 I can go 3500 miles.
So on you bus you could dedicate 1/2 of on bay to oil and the other half to gray tank. You still have the rest of your bays open for storage.
what about the weight though? what is the weight difference of vo compared to water or diesel?
Quote from: happycamperbrat on April 23, 2011, 09:19:47 PM
what about the weight though? what is the weight difference of vo compared to water or diesel?
WVO is about 9 pounds per gallon. 200 gallons would be 1800 pounds. I am not sure what the rating is on your bays but the Eagle is I believe 1600 pounds per bay, and the old heads say they will carry a whole lot more than that. I am sure we could do 3 tanks or 1 in each bay that is 7' long 3' tall and 1' wide. That would be 100 gallons each and spread over the length of the coach. That still gives you around 2000 miles.
Hi,
just color me a bit confused.
Water weighs 8.3 pounds per gallon, I don't see how water will settle if the veg oil weighs 9 #/gal. Is the 9 a typo, or is there another explanation?
Thanks
Dick Egler
Congrats, Wal, on your successful first run on WVO.
I have begun collecting oil and am setting up a "cold-upflow" settling/dewatering system. I have not yet begun to collect the bits and pieces (not the least of which is an aluminum tank) such as valves, heat exchangers, etc, for my 4104.
Have you any pictures of your system? Do you switch manually, when engine and WVO temps are good? Would love to know what valves you are using, how you purge prior to shutdown and a system-flow diagram.
Anyway, good on you that you're up and running! That has to be a great feeling being able to travel about for pennies! (well, once the fuel savings pays for the cost of conversion components anyway, and that won't take long at current diesel prices ;)).
Kevin
Quote from: dickegler on April 24, 2011, 07:55:38 AM
Hi,
just color me a bit confused.
Water weighs 8.3 pounds per gallon, I don't see how water will settle if the veg oil weighs 9 #/gal. Is the 9 a typo, or is there another explanation?
Thanks
Dick Egler
The numbers are close, but that is why it takes so long fro the water to settle out naturally.
This is also one of the hardest things about making the stuff, is making sure ALL the water is out. If the water is not completely out it will kill your engine! My brother boils his out because settling just doesnt cut it for him.
What I'd like to see is bus nuts who collect and sell in each state for when others are traveling thru....
Veg oil is actually lighter than water I think about 7lbs oil 8lbs water these are approximate weights so don't anybody puff up their chests to correct me.
I run a 22 gallon tank and have to stop every 100 miles or so to pump more oil but at least mines electric pump ;D
If you have the convenience of being able to settle your oil for long periods a centrifuge is just a convenience, if you need to pump and run it's a necessity. I had some oil (about 400 gallons) sit at Gary Labombards (sp) house for about 3 years, talk about nice and clean
Glad your up and running,
As far as electronic engines I run it in my ddec II engine just fine, I did take some precautionary measures and removed the fuel temp censor.
A bit of a warning/headsup on oil used for fish fries, some use corn meal which is very light and floats on top or stays suspended in the oil, it is very hard to deal with but can be managed.
Quote from: dickegler on April 24, 2011, 07:55:38 AM
Hi,
just color me a bit confused.
Water weighs 8.3 pounds per gallon, I don't see how water will settle if the veg oil weighs 9 #/gal. Is the 9 a typo, or is there another explanation?
Thanks
Dick Egler
I really don't know the weight of veg oil. A 4.5 gallon box weighs 35 pounds so lets see. I just hit it with a calculator and it says 7.7 lbs per gallon. Well that is good to know, I can carry more oil now.
Quote from: Kevin on April 24, 2011, 08:17:13 AM
Congrats, Wal, on your successful first run on WVO.
I have begun collecting oil and am setting up a "cold-upflow" settling/dewatering system. I have not yet begun to collect the bits and pieces (not the least of which is an aluminum tank) such as valves, heat exchangers, etc, for my 4104.
Have you any pictures of your system? Do you switch manually, when engine and WVO temps are good? Would love to know what valves you are using, how you purge prior to shutdown and a system-flow diagram.
Anyway, good on you that you're up and running! That has to be a great feeling being able to travel about for pennies! (well, once the fuel savings pays for the cost of conversion components anyway, and that won't take long at current diesel prices ;)).
Kevin
Wonderful Kevin. I say go for it. I will post some pics tomorrow. I use the SV200 valves from greasecar.com They were $320 after shipping. They run on 12v through a toggle switch at the driver seat.
I robbed Neoplans idea of a surge tank at the rear of the bus. The 100 gallon tank is in the bay. The surge tank is only 22 gallon. I can hit a toggle switch at the driver seat which is wire to a relay switch, opening a 110 volt circuit. That circuit runs a clear water pump, the blue one from Harbor Freight. It feeds oil from the large tank to the small surge tank. So when my fuel gauge from the surge tank is down to half I flip the switch and pump it up again.
The surge tank in my opinion is the only way to go. Easier to heat and if you get air int he system it will be gone when it hits the surge tank. The loop systems have to be bled off if air gets in there.
On purge I just switch the one valve back to diesel 10 miles before I get to where I am going. THe other valve (fuel return) I leave on. It is OK if diesel gets int he WVO surge tank but you don't want it the other way around, WVO in the diesel tank. You can literally watch the fuel gauge climb in the surge tank. When I stop I just turn off the return fuel toggle, back to diesel.
I have been talking to some heavy hitting WVO guys and they like my idea of planning ahead and emptying the surge tank, back filling it with diesel as you drive, switching back to the surge tank and running on diesel through the WVO system to purge the whole WVO side with diesel. This will combat WVO becoming polymerized by repeat heating while driving on Diesel and WVO just sitting in the heat exchangers.
I will try to draw it out some time soon. Hooking it up was not hard at all. Getting all my parts and waiting on a DA bother in law is what has taken so long. If I had all the parts laying there I could hook it all up in less than a day. When you get ready hollar at me. I already converted a buddy to a bus and now WVO in his bus. It is a catchy tune, all you got to do is start whistling it.
Quote from: happycamperbrat on April 24, 2011, 04:58:01 PM
This is also one of the hardest things about making the stuff, is making sure ALL the water is out. If the water is not completely out it will kill your engine! My brother boils his out because settling just doesnt cut it for him.
Your brother is probably getting some hydrogenated oil. It is a pain in the buttocks to get water out of it. Water wants to get out of the oil but it needs a little help. Heating to 110 degrees, circulate spraying back to the top of the drum will drive the nastiest clinging water out of oil.
Thank you Charlie. I mounted the heat exchanger parallel with the exhaust pipe. There is .5 inch clearance twix the two. It gets absolutely smoking hot from the water going through it. The heat is not allowed to escape it because it is hotter on the outside because of the exhaust pipe. After a run I can't even touch the heat exchangers. If your ever blowing through Texas just stop by. I'll send you packing with some more juice.
Not that this will ever happen, ....but...
If you're significant other ever gets in the driver seat while running on WVO---make sure you have the clear instructions laminated on a card in full view and readable while driving. Just going over the directions verbally multiple times just doesn't suffice.
I made the mistake of letting the wife drive my WVO powered Jetta without such instructions on a short 50 mile jaunt by herself. About an hour later I get a near-frantic call that there is something wrong with the car, and something is leaking out of the rear of the car.
So, I load the tow dolly onto the back of the Suburban, and pack a small toolbox with metric tools, etc and head out. I get there, and discover that she had it on the purge cycle the whole trip, and now the WVO tank is full, and pushed WVO and diesel mix into the trunk, almost completely filling the area around the spare tire, until it leaked out through the hole where the heated lines enter the trunk. Didn't save a dime on that trip, and had to fill both vehicles up again before heading home.
Steve Toomey
Thanks, Wal, for the information on your system!
That is an interesting concept using the surge tank. I agree that it makes alot of sense, particularly in regard to quickly heating the WVO prior to switching. I had planned on just a two-tank set-up and wondered how long it would take to get the (probably 100 gallon or so) WVO tank heated sufficient for switch over.
Looking forward to any pics/diagrams you may share. I am very anxious to begin my conversion. I hope to find a used aluminum 18-wheeler fuel tank as primary WVO tank. I can possibly fab-up a smaller surge tank. Are you content with the 22 gallon capacity of the surge tank? What type of heat exchanger do you use? Are you also heating the supply WVO line from surge tank to engine via a hose-in-hose (fuel line within engine coolant hoses) set-up?
Thanks for any/all information you might share!!!
Kevin
Hello again Wal,
Saw your pics on other post and as you remarked, that post was more of a poll. I wonder if you might share your pics and, if at all possible, a rough fuel-flow diagram with explanation of what valve does what, in terms of switching from diesel to oil, purging cycle, etc on this post. Hope that's not too much to ask! :o
I have been studying Chris Goodman's Frybrid site/system for the past five years. It seems that your system is very similar - and you are obviously aware of the dangers of polymerization due to reaction with mild steel, copper, and the fact that the oil must be a minimum of 160 degrees F prior to introduction to engine. So many are not.
Anyway, thank you very much for so generously sharing information (and necessary cautions!) on WVO systems in general, and your system in particular. Photos are great. I love photos! The more the better!!! (hint, hint!!!) ;D
BTW, are you using the "hot pan" test to check for water content? As mentioned in my first post, I will rely on a cold-upflow set-up to settle/de-water my oil pretty much exclusively. It will be interesting to see how successful I am.
We will be taking our trusty '04 on a 400 mile round trip next weekend to visit the out, er inlaws. Sure wish I was up and running already, dangit!!! I've let her run down to about a quarter tank. Gonna cost a small fortune to fill up! >:(
Anxiously awaiting more pics and a diagram if possible.
Cheers,
Kevin