I happened across a website detailing the increased restrictions on vehicle emissions in London, which might be of passing interest to some. Such restrictions will doubtless be adopted by many cities and urban areas in the future, and be a major problem for people with big lumbering diesels (or even small lumbering diesels - vans, pickups and 4x4s are included in the London scheme now). And it doesn't just apply to commercial vehicles - privately owned vehicles are included too.
The daily fee for using a buses or motorhome which doesn't meet the required emission standard is £200 (approx $330).
The website is here:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/default.aspx (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/default.aspx)
Jeremy
Wouldn't a Dyson vacuum cleaner do the trick?
Quote from: Flatspot on April 20, 2011, 07:03:29 PM
Wouldn't a Dyson vacuum cleaner do the trick?
No... :-\ but i have heard that if you couple dual Oreck air scrubbers to your exhaust the situation would be deemed acceptable.....
I forgot to mention that this involves mounting two 150 gallon aquariums to your exhausts... :o
Is London just going to regulate itself out of existence? How are businesses going to survive in London if they can't get deliveries or deliveries become more expensive due to vehicle requirements? Do all transit buses meet these standards or are government operated vehicles exempt?
European government want citizens to use less fuel so many people drive diesel vehicles. Now government is banning diesel vehicles that are not cars due to emissions.
Quote from: belfert on April 20, 2011, 08:11:52 PM
Is London just going to regulate itself out of existence? How are businesses going to survive in London if they can't get deliveries or deliveries become more expensive due to vehicle requirements? Do all transit buses meet these standards or are government operated vehicles exempt?
European government want citizens to use less fuel so many people drive diesel vehicles. Now government is banning diesel vehicles that are not cars due to emissions.
That is exactly what many Londoners must be asking; obviously it's a balance between making the city a cleaner and more attractive place to live and work, versus the expense of living and working there. The authorities there are obviously confident that the demand to be in London is so strong that insisting on higher standards won't put too many people off. I'm sure the same would be true in Monaco, Manhatten, Hong Kong and Tokyo (well, perhaps not Tokyo...)
There is also the point that tougher standard forces domestic vehicle manufacturers to build better vehicles, which makes them more competitive on the global market (or alternatively, prevents foreign imports from being sold in the domestic market - you won't find many Freightliners, Peterbilts or MCIs being sold in the UK).
Lastly, it's another way for Government to encourage the development of new technologies such as electric vehicles. These are exempt from the congestion charge as well as the emissions regulations (and the basic very high cost of diesel), so there's lots of motivation for people to use pure electric if they possibly can. Which hopefully will help make Britain a leader in this new industry.
Jeremy
PS. You can get bolt-on particulate filters to help make older vehicles meet the new standard. I doubt they would make a two-stroke Detroit meet Euro IV standards, but presumably they can help in lots of marginal situations. Here's one made by Pirelli:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgreenurban.co.uk%2Fstore%2Fimages%2FPirelli.jpg&hash=f7278a66f41521fc7b12c2cea113a47b1bd82449)
So in essence, what you are saying is that its going to increase the costs a great deal... Wonder if i need one of those scrubbers on my bicycle in Weston... ;D
This article was published in 2009 http://www.enviro-news.com/news/plans_for_100000_electric_cars_in_london.html (http://www.enviro-news.com/news/plans_for_100000_electric_cars_in_london.html) London is very serious about electric cars! Obama is quoted in the article as saying he wants 1 million evs in America by 2015....... hmm, makes me think we are being strong armed thru our wallets!
Im very much a "treehugger" in many aspects of my life (I compost, cook vegan, dont use poison weed killer, believe in alternative energy as our future for everything, etc.) BUT I really think this should be a more gradual change and that forcing people to do the change over too soon is going to come with consequences...... especially for the poor who cant afford the price of fuel nor can they afford a $50,000 car.
Quote from: chev49 on April 21, 2011, 02:54:43 AM
So in essence, what you are saying is that its going to increase the costs a great deal... Wonder if i need one of those scrubbers on my bicycle in Weston... ;D
There's no extra cost if you have a truck or bus with the latest generation of engines, as they obviously meet the standards. The £200 per day fee is if you have an old vehicle that doesn't meet the standards.
No doubt this kind of thing will push the values of older vehicles down even more. Old buses (and by old I mean anything built before say 1995) are already dirt cheap here compared to the US, where depreciation appears to be much lower and very old buses seem to stay on the road much longer. Which, environmentally speaking, is a very good thing. Throwing away a perfectly serviceable vehicle because it doesn't meet some arbitrary emission standard is environmental vandalism. Built-in obsolescence is great for the economy though.
So far London is the only city here to have these draconian emissions regulations, and fortunately I cannot imagine a scenario where I would want to take my bus into London anyway. I do know that some other cities have 'soot control' rules specific to their transit bus fleets - I remember seeing a local TV program where shopkeepers in Sheffield (local city to me) were saying that they were surprised at just how much difference it had made to quality of life for shoppers and workers in the city centre.
Jeremy
As much as I love my old vehicles there has to be a starting point to reduce the carbon gasses we are dumping into the air.
People/businesses don't do it voluntarily so the government needs to make it hurt the bottom line ($). Right now there is no reason for anyone to get a vehicle that pollutes less except for better fuel economy which saves you money. So if it costs you money in fees to have/keep an old vehicle then you are more likely to buy into a newer vehicle.
They can't make you get rid of your old vehicle, but they can sure make you pay to keep it. This is just the beginning so don't be surprised at what comes next...
Climate change is happening right now....
If individuals and businesses aren't going to do something then the government will have to force us to do it. And we will bitch and moan about how they shouldn't be able to force us to do anything we don't want to do. But in the end we HAVE to do something.
I don't like it any more then anyone else but but if we want to keep our standard of living we will have to change a lot of things.
OK, I'll shut-up now...
.
Quote from: zimtok on April 21, 2011, 06:44:19 AM
As much as I love my old vehicles there has to be a starting point to reduce the carbon gasses we are dumping into the air.
People/businesses don't do it voluntarily so the government needs to make it hurt the bottom line ($). Right now there is no reason for anyone to get a vehicle that pollutes less except for better fuel economy which saves you money. So if it costs you money in fees to have/keep an old vehicle then you are more likely to buy into a newer vehicle.
They can't make you get rid of your old vehicle, but they can sure make you pay to keep it. This is just the beginning so don't be surprised at what comes next...
Climate change is happening right now....
If individuals and businesses aren't going to do something then the government will have to force us to do it. And we will bitch and moan about how they shouldn't be able to force us to do anything we don't want to do. But in the end we HAVE to do something.
I don't like it any more then anyone else but but if we want to keep our standard of living we will have to change a lot of things.
OK, I'll shut-up now...
.
Wonder if the government is going to regulate Mother Nature, too? That volcano that went off last year pretty much wiped out all the gains in CO2 emissions you liberal tree huggers claim to have made since this whole greenhouse gas manmade global warming hoax started over a decade ago! That's gotta make you feel a bit stupid to know that you could shut down every vehicle in the world for a year, and then one volcano erupts and spits up more CO2 than all those vehicles combined could possibly put out!
It's not about the carbon... it's all about the cash!
Quote from: Jeremy on April 20, 2011, 05:07:12 PM
I happened across a website detailing the increased restrictions on vehicle emissions in London, which might be of passing interest to some. Such restrictions will doubtless be adopted by many cities and urban areas in the future, and be a major problem for people with big lumbering diesels (or even small lumbering diesels - vans, pickups and 4x4s are included in the London scheme now). And it doesn't just apply to commercial vehicles - privately owned vehicles are included too.
The daily fee for using a buses or motorhome which doesn't meet the required emission standard is £200 (approx $330).
The website is here:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/default.aspx (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/default.aspx)
Sounds like time to move to somewhere else. I hear California has or is about to outlaw across the board 2 stroke Detroits even grandfathered. We are losing all our rights in the states. I live in S/W Mo and on 40 acres can burn wood garbage and do what I want. But as California is chasing out their residents they are going to descover the cheap land prices and houses and then laws will be passed here as well. It a scarey world with the EPA scene. I hope EPA gets defunded before we ALL lose our buses. But the fuel prices are helping that anyway. I got a bus in South Dakota that I got to get moved and there is no way I can afford it at this time an old Western Flyer
Where did you here Cally is outlawing 2 strokes? I havent heard that...... but I do know it pretty much has with Commercial diesels, but not private..... (yet! gulp >:( )
Grumpy is right...
Lets see now...
A woman has a right to choose.... you dont. Just our guvmt at work.
Did I miss something?
I'm just ignorent of course...