Oh how sweet the end of a long project can be. The honey colored go juice is flowing. Got home and jumped under the hood and switched out the 3 way valves. I bolted and soldered the new ones in and fired her up. Sounded good, got my air pressure up and hit the switch. No sputter and all seemed well. I checked the vacuum gauge and it was pulling 3.5 Hg vacuum. Awesome, I think?
Got on the road as my wife fired up the satellite so she wouldn't miss any American Idol, uhggg! Hit the highway and flipped her over to the WVO system. Nothing!! No change no sputter no loss in power. Mashed the throttle and went up to 75 for a minute or two then backed out. Came to a stop and mashed the throttle all the way up to 75 again and backed out of it. Then I just cruised my old 55 for about 20 miles. Just kickin it at 55 while the sun was going down. THe weather is extremely nice this week. This will be the last of it I am sure.
Shout out to Divinerightstrip, she turned me onto the larger SV200 valves from Greasecar. They are high dollar but they got some flow to them. DVR thank you very much. I do hope someday I'll go northeast or you southwest, Shiner Bock is on me.
Shout out to Neoplan, thank you for turning me onto the surge tank idea. I like it, it works and it made a lot of sense after I got my mind wrapped around it.
All others who chunked a tidbit or two I thank you all as well.
Oh how I love the golden juice ;D
Now you gotta teach her to run on snake oil...Cable
Funny, that's what I call it to "On the juice" Too bad I missed the part about the bigger valves as I had some and 3 or 4 12v solenoids, I forget the name at the moment but they weren't too awful expensive.
Glad to hear your on da juice, don't forget to purge before shutdown.
OK, Now I am really getting impatient and chomping.....
Great news from you Wal. Simply great news.
I guess you will still be making Bio for the winter and to cut you #2 tank for the cheaper switch over befor shutting down.
Are you doing anything at all with WMO? Future plans?
I read a thing the other day that said that "large" D combustion chambers run too cool to allow burning WVO. Now just how many thousands are doing just that? Wonder what they mean, though. Always a kernal of truth in every lie somewhere.
Great news...again.
John
Hello Johned, I still have to make the bioD for the tractor, lawnmower, the Excursion, the bug and the Jetta. I store the oil in 300 gallon totes. I draw off of the top after settling and that is what goes to the bus tote. What comes out of the bottom of the totes goes to the bioD factory in the opposite corner of the barn. Settling and drawing off of the top will save a whole lot of work trying to dewater and filter. We are standing on top of a huge centrifuge called earth. Gravity is friendly magic when it comes to water and particulate matter in your oil.
Johned you say you are chomping at the bit. What is wrong with your bus? When your ready I have a parts list for conversion. Of course it is in my head but I can write it down and get you started when your ready. That was the probably the toughest thing for me was not having a "Been there done that" person helping my here at the house. Standing there and pointing is one thing, typing it is another.
I'm starting to feel regret for selling my WVO Jetta--as diesel climbs above $4/gallon in my area!? ???
Maybe i won't sell all my WVO filtering stuff just yet!
Steve Toomey
pabusnut
Quote from: wal1809 on April 07, 2011, 03:41:25 AM
Hello Johned, I still have to make the bioD for the tractor, lawnmower, the Excursion, the bug and the Jetta. I store the oil in 300 gallon totes. I draw off of the top after settling and that is what goes to the bus tote. What comes out of the bottom of the totes goes to the bioD factory in the opposite corner of the barn. Settling and drawing off of the top will save a whole lot of work trying to dewater and filter. We are standing on top of a huge centrifuge called earth. Gravity is friendly magic when it comes to water and particulate matter in your oil.
Johned you say you are chomping at the bit. What is wrong with your bus? When your ready I have a parts list for conversion. Of course it is in my head but I can write it down and get you started when your ready. That was the probably the toughest thing for me was not having a "Been there done that" person helping my here at the house. Standing there and pointing is one thing, typing it is another.
Oh I forgot about your WMO question. I use it sparingly. I filter it and drip it from one container to another with the drips hitting a magnet. When I fill up anyone of my vehicles I put a little in the tank. It is a good way to dispose of the used oil, create superior lubricity in the fuel system and adds to the long term savings of fuel.
There could be some truth about the too cool to burn. I don't quite see it that way but hey some could be right. I think what you were reading was involving fuel passing the rings and contaminating the motor oil. It is a concern of mine and hsould be for others as well. To comabt that let's say on my Jetta, which calls for a 10,000 mile oil change interval. I change it at 5,000. I will develope a plan to do the same for the Eagle. I don't know what that will be but heck, I have plenty of time now.
I believe I will be fine as I will probably be using a 10% Pump diesel and 90% WVO mix through the 2 tank system. I have to run some miles before I find out if I need it or not. It would certainly help the flow of the oil and I would imagine up the explosive reaction in the chamber. We shall see, the main thing is we are off the $4.00 a gallon pump diesel teet.
In the main tank I will probably run 50/50 or 25/75 diesel and bio D.
wal1809 said; Johned you say you are chomping at the bit. What is wrong with your bus?
Johned, did you buy a bus? I hadn't heard.
Quote from: usbusin on April 07, 2011, 05:57:21 AM
wal1809 said; Johned you say you are chomping at the bit. What is wrong with your bus?
Johned, did you buy a bus? I hadn't heard.
I don't know if he has a bus or not.
Quote from: wal1809 on April 07, 2011, 05:54:09 AM
There could be some truth about the too cool to burn.
I read somewhere a while back, about some engines forming coke deposits because the WVO was catalysing in the combustion chamber. You know anything about that? I would imagine, that to get optimum combustion you need different injector nozzles and different timing.
With anything new there will be new problems to surmount. The easy course is to stay diesel all the way, no muss, no fuss. But using a resource that is readily available, using it twice in essence, is smart. Glad to see some pioneers working it out.
Yes isn't it great to no be using all that high priced stuff. I got mine going last fall with Omar valves and used it to go to Yuma. I only had abaout 10 gallons left when I got there so gat another hundred plus scrounged up and made it just north of Wells before I ran out and had to switch. I find no problem with Omar valves as would still do 75-80 ok Jerry
Bio-Diesel (home made kind) costs WAY over $4.00 a gallon when you consider all the equipment you have to buy. Also you should figure at least $50.00 an hour for your time involved with collecting, filtering, etc the fuel to the point of it being usable.
Just how much did that Bio-Diesel system cost to install in your bus-and how long did it take to install and get running correctly?
Now-if you were running 120,000 miles a year (like most commercial vehicles do) I'd say it was well worth it. But at our low mileage per year (how many do anything more than 5,000-10,000 miles per year). Good Luck, TomC
Hello TomC I have answers. I spend 1 hour total for each collection stop. That is always mixed with another reason to go to that location, example- I work an extra job as basically a security gaurd in the city. I do this every Tuesday night from 10 PM to 6 AM. I have an oil collection barrel about a mile from that job. I hook onto my trustee Super Sucker collection trailer and leave about 20 minutes earlier than normal, collect the oil (3-mins). So that way I did not spend 50 miles worth of bio diesel to collect 55 galons of oil. I was already headed that way anyway. I try to double up my collections at all stops to avoid spending solely to collect.
I spent less than a $1000 to build my processor. In my calculations that is 2, maybe 3 fill ups on the bus or 20 fill ups on the Excursion. After that I am in the savings. That was 5 years ago. 400 gallons a month x 12= 4800 gallons a year x (now prices) $3.80 a gallon = $18,240. I assure you I have not spent that for bio diesel, not even close.
The bus system I have not factored but a quick run down is $60 for surge tank, $60 for bracket for the large holding tank, Large holding tank was free BIL favor, $300 for valves and lets step out there with $200 for fittings, hoses and filter. I would say the cost of 1 or 2 pump fill ups paid for the whole 2 tank system.
Quote from: Jerry32 on April 07, 2011, 07:39:11 AM
Yes isn't it great to no be using all that high priced stuff. I got mine going last fall with Omar valves and used it to go to Yuma. I only had abaout 10 gallons left when I got there so gat another hundred plus scrounged up and made it just north of Wells before I ran out and had to switch. I find no problem with Omar valves as would still do 75-80 ok Jerry
I tried the Omar valves and I got a restriction at the valves. They are a lot cheaper (still a great quality valve) but I had to go with the Greasecar valve. Cleared the restriction right up. I will use the Omar valves for the Excursion when I regain the urge to break into another huge project. Let's see that will be after completing the pontoon boat refurbish job.
Quote from: artvonne on April 07, 2011, 07:06:03 AM
Quote from: wal1809 on April 07, 2011, 05:54:09 AM
There could be some truth about the too cool to burn.
I read somewhere a while back, about some engines forming coke deposits because the WVO was catalysing in the combustion chamber. You know anything about that? I would imagine, that to get optimum combustion you need different injector nozzles and different timing.
With anything new there will be new problems to surmount. The easy course is to stay diesel all the way, no muss, no fuss. But using a resource that is readily available, using it twice in essence, is smart. Glad to see some pioneers working it out.
Yes I do. Coking comes from running cold WVO. The burn is not complete when entered into the engine cold. It has been found heating the oik to 170 plus degrees will allow for a complete burn in the cylinder. Imagine a cold pan on the stove and you place a tablespoon of oil then turn the burner on. By the time it reaches 600 degrees your going to have a black tar mess on your pan. Now heat the pan to 600 degrees and then throw the tablespoon of oil into the pan. It will flash out leaving no traces of a burned glycerin build up. Thus no coking the injector tips.
It may be that I used an electric fuel pump to pump the grease and did the job. I set up a 4 valve system bypassing the diesel back to the tank since I didn't use the engine driven pump. I also put an electric water pump on the coolant heating lines to get good curculation there. Jerry
I thought about useing a 12v pump at the tank to send fuel to the vales and then onto the engine pump. I promise you, last night I would have paid $300 for a 12v pump when I was trying to re- prime the WVO fuel line. Nothing worse than a mouth full of Dino D and WVO.
I had to build a better mousetrap becuase that was just nasty. I took an old plastic 5 gallon gas can and stuck clear tuning in the pour spot and taped that with duct tape. I stuck the other end of the clear tubing inside the fuel line from the WVO tank. I took a vacuum pump and attached a line to the vent hole on the gas can. I turned the pump on and let her rip. I could see a whole lot of air and fuel air and fuel air and fuel. It took about 1.5 gallons before I got a steady stream of fuel with no air bubbles. I pinched the fuel hose with a clam and then pulled the clear tube out and attached it to the valve. Not a problem or an air bubble sputter.
the electric pump is great for priming as I have a 24 volt pump and all the rest of the system is 24 volt. I just hook a line up to the pump intake and stick it in a can of diesel and turn it on and fills the engine up just fine. My electiric pump is set for 60 lbs pressure and seems to work fine that way. Jerry
Mine is setup to pump from anywhere to anywhere and if need be prime
I got more 3 way valves and pluming than a meth lab
I might throw a pump in there later. Right now I am just glad to be done with the major project and on the juice. I can go to the lake just to go to the lake if I want to now. It doesn't have to be an event planned around a fuel expense account.
WAL,
Info from the Blenders is as follows: Mixing a little fuel into WVO or WMO, be that mix DinoD or BioD or RUG, bunches of stuff separates out and settles out faster than gravity will do. In the case of WMO you get stuff to settle out that won't separate any other way. The addition of RUG to WMO at a 10% ratio will give the settled WMO the same viscosity as Dino. They run that as a fuel and "claim" no problems. It is settled for a long time after blending. The centrifuge does it in hours but if you have the time and space I wouldn't bother with one either.
Try this: put some settled WVO in a bottle and add 25% DinoD and let it settle for a couple weeks. Do the same with WVO and RUG and then with BioD. Blending seems to bring even more stuff out to settle and clog filters. I never done it but I have heard this more than a few times. Can't tell how well they filtered and such, however. curious what you find out.
Thanks for your help and info,
John
I understand priming and such. I keep hearing about running the pump that is back at the tank to fill the line and filter. the problem, as I see it, is that you need to open the line ansd spill the fuel till you ghet a good clear flow.
SOOOOO, why not plumb into the "spill return line" with a valve and let the purging flow simply return to the tank? WVO or DinoD spill return is controlled by a valve so input the prime return into the line before the fuel select" valve. I am trying to "not" touch fuel for ther priming task. Any good in this idea?
Thanks,
John
All good information John Ed. The prime pump would work very well as you described the set up. I just lat the vacuum continue to draw the fluid into the gas can until I saw it run clear and no bubbles then I hooked the line up to where it belongs. I didn't even get a sputter out of the engine. The Detroit is good about clearing some air initially. A lot of air I wouldn't try. All that has to happen is it to die and then your in for a prime job you din't want.
So far as settling. I am not sure what the different thinning agents will do either and it only stands to reason they would settle differently. I have though about filling the the surge tank to a certain point on the gauge and then have another pump to pump diesel on top of the WVO in the surge tank. But I quickly dispatched that idea as I will only put x number of gallons in the bus for x number of miles. That way I have semi purged tanks and not a lot of drop out sediments to clear out later.
The large holding tank I am installing now is 100 gallon. I intend to later install a 200 gallon tank in its place. It will be whatever dimension it takes to get to 200 but as tall and wide as the bay itself. Be it a rectangle tall and wide it would take up less space than the cylindrical tank I have now. That would take me nearly 1200 miles on one fill up.
That is the problem now having enough to get there and back or some place to get more on the way. My main tank is 105 gallons and I have a aux tank for about the same and that will get me the 1200 miles to Yuma but with littleleft over for the return trip. One problem I had was getting the engine up to temp. I found that the louvers were off and open on the radiators so turned them back on and was able to warm up the coolant. It still took about 20 miles down the road though. Jerry
My boss and I were discussing a trip to Sturgis, SD June 2012. We will be taking the bus and figured out we have to take 500 gallons of fuel to get there and back. We have to tow a car so the trailer idea is out. This is going to take a little engineering.
Quote from: Jerry32 on April 07, 2011, 06:40:46 PM
. I found that the louvers were off and open on the radiators so turned them back on and was able to warm up the coolant. It still took about 20 miles down the road though. Jerry
That just doesn't sound right. If your louvers were disabled then the thermostat might have been removed. All engines need to be brought up to operating temp as soon as possible. All the expansion of the block and all is engineered and clearances are set. Operate at low temp under heavy load and you are going to experience accelerated wear. THEN there is the oil issue.....oil is too thick at below normal temp and doesn't get around as fast as it should and even more importantly the stuff will just keep accumulating water and acid unless it is brought up to its normal 180 degree temp.
In every vehicle I have driven since that 56 thru 59 Oldsmobile fiasco crap with the "do not drive till the "cold engine" light goes out". They took that back cause the engines were dieing of sludge build up. Everything I have read since then has advocated that the engine be run under light or moderate load and never at full RPM till the temp rises to "normal". Oil must also be raised buy that might take a lot longer.
All my experience is automotive sooooooooo?
John
Quote from: Jerry32 on April 07, 2011, 06:40:46 PM
That is the problem now having enough to get there and back or some place to get more on the way. My main tank is 105 gallons and I have a aux tank for about the same and that will get me the 1200 miles to Yuma but with littleleft over for the return trip. One problem I had was getting the engine up to temp. I found that the louvers were off and open on the radiators so turned them back on and was able to warm up the coolant. It still took about 20 miles down the road though. Jerry
Hey, if I am reading this right, you are carrying 210 gallons and running 1200 miles. Is that right? That would be about 6mpg (give or take a few) on the trip average. I carry about 150 gallons in the main (65 gal's in the aux) and usually get about 800 miles on a tank, which is about 5.5mpg. Hard to figure because we use the genset quite bit and that enters into it and of course, messes up the math.
I usually crank mine up, let it run until the air buzzer kicks off and then I just drive it like I own it, seems to be working okay for us.
BCO
As close as I can get the figuring, I am getting 7.8 mpg on diesel fuel. That is with no tow and regular load underneath. I won't know until later what wvo will do so far as mpg. I lost some power and mpg with my Excursion. We shall see.
I lost no power or MPG
How big is the trailer your pulling the car on? You could carry some oil on the trailer with the car.
Here's what I did on a Sturgis trip
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn34%2FCharleyDavidsonshow%2FBus%2F006-2.jpg&hash=04d1891b5c59be3efbf75219bbab662dd85b7cde)
I get a little over seven MPG when not towing and over six with 4K lbs behind . It could be that the thermostats are not right but the coach has always run around 160 but takes about ten miles to get there. It may also be that with the extra cooling I get from heating the grease makes it harder to get the engine warm. I know with the heat exchanger in the tank the grease is good and warm after a few hours on the road. I have thought about carrying some cubies in the pickup when I go and then could dipose of them after arrival. I'll keep looking for an answer to that problem and maybe something will pop up. Jerry
Charlie tell me that green tank has oil in it ;D. I have plenty of 35 gallon poly drums. I could load them into another bay and just pump from them into the main tank. The main tank should get us as far as one day (South Nebraska or northern Kansas). We could just take a few minutes and pump the main full. Then do it again when we get there and once more on the way home.
I am not using a trialer for my toad, I have a dolly. I intend to get a double decker trailer eventually so I can tow the toad and a boat.
Everything ive read shows WVO at around 130K btu per gallon, while diesel, because of all the screwing bythe EPA, is averaging around 135K btu today. As such, you really shouldnt see any significant drop in fuel economy on WVO, unless its not burning properly.
It should be pointed out, to those who may not know, that the larger diesel engines have different injection timing specs for fuels with different Cetane ratings, and they use different injector nozzles for different grades of fuel, such as Bunker fuel, etc..
If I were running WVO exclusively, I would research the Cetane rating and find the correct nozzle for that viscosity fuel. I believe you should be able to closely match the economy of diesel with the proper set up.
What your saying makes a lot of sense, but it is on an everyday occasion I will be running on both WVO and Dinosaur diesel. Having to run Dino D to get started and reach operating temps, then switching over to WVO. I can't wait to put this baby on a long trip. The last weekend in April we are headed on a 300 mile trip to Freer, Texas. I got to pick up a load down there. It will be a run down Friday night and return Saturday morning after I do my purchasing for the year. It'll be good to get her on a long stretch and see what little bugs I need to work out.
I just figured out that will take around 80 gallons of WVO to get to Freer and back. Lets see $8.00 worth of WVO vs $320 worth of dinosaur diesel. Sleep on the bus $0.00 vs hotel $100. $420.00 knocked down to $8.00 plus incidentals. Oh I forgot however much dinosaur diesel the gen will burn for a 24 hour period needs to be factored in there as well.
You will burn a little dino warming it up to go on grease. but that is small in comparison. Jerry
I've done the arithmetic many times 36,000 miles on $1,000.00 in diesel fuel has virtually paid for my bus. Sometimes I wish I was still traveling full time.
Charlie D you just got to love those kind of figures. I have so many trips planned I don't know which direction to go other than I know I am headed south in April. If the timing works out I will be headed to Ft. Knox in August to see my syep son who is returning for a few weeks from the sand box. His wife is expected to have their new baby in that time frame he is home. So a week off to go up to Ky, I can dig it as I have never been there.
Quote from: wal1809 on April 11, 2011, 05:03:37 AM
What your saying makes a lot of sense, but it is on an everyday occasion I will be running on both WVO and Dinosaur diesel. Having to run Dino D to get started and reach operating temps, then switching over to WVO.
If your only using diesel to warm up, but traveling on WVO, then I would tune the motor for WVO. It will still run on diesel, it just wont be quite as efficient. I would guess the trade off would be about equal in either direction, excepting the difference in btu energy per gallon. But also, if its possible to get coking from WVO not burning optimally, then its even more important to tune for that fuel.
So your running the Gen on WVO also?
Hello Art, No the gen set runs off of diesel. The previous owner had a line attached to the main tank. I kind of like it that way. I have yet to tackle the fuel gauge project. So if and when the genset quits I know I have 40 gallons left in the main tank. I was headed to Weatherford last year when it cut off and believe me it takes about 1.5 seconds to be well over 100 degrees in htat beer can on wheels. It was a holy crap moment to say the least.