I figured I would start a new post since we have a new issue...
I picked up the bus from Williams and now the alternator is not charging. There is no dash gage, so it took the systems getting weak for me to realize it. We took the alternator to an alternator rebuild shop. They tested it and it works fine. The only question would have been the voltage regulator, so we had them replace it ($30). Reinstalled it and it is still NOT charging. Absolutely nothing. Just running on battery.
We checked the wires going to the alternator and there is no voltage coming in. I am including a picture of the alternator. It is 12 volt as the entire bus is 12 volt.
The wires lead to different relays and I do not know where to look for the problem... Ideas?
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1218.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd407%2Fthejumpsuitman%2F100_9684.jpg&hash=3cf285874acc8ccd4d9efacd5905c25a4a2e880b)
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It looks like there is an unused terminal on the back of the alt. What's it supposed to do?...Cable
I have No idea. By the way, ignore the newer of the two red wires, we ran that one as a bypass (to no avail).
I don't know if it was charging when we took it to the shop or not. It did act up the day before they got it, but I didn't think anything of it. NO alternator gage. Only noticed the batteries dying with lights getting dim.
Quote from: fe2_o3 on March 30, 2011, 04:57:27 PM
With alt. installed, does it have 12v at any terminal on it? Or is it not being excited...Cable
No 12 volt going into the alternator. The wires read dead.
From the title of the thread I thought they did the work for free. :o
I think it needs to be excited.( 12v to alt). Can you run the gen set to charge the batts while on the road? Might get you home to friendly territory...Cable
Quote from: fe2_o3 on March 30, 2011, 05:11:57 PM
I think it needs to be excited.( 12v to alt). Can you run the gen set to charge the batts while on the road? Might get you home to friendly territory...Cable
We are safe and sound here at Gary's and he has more privacy than we do. I did run the genset to keep the batteries up enough to get here. But I'd rather fix it here before driving it any further. We will probably go home in the car and deal with it next week.
I just looked at mine. It is a delco. I have 1 lug for the tach and1 for my main. My main runs to the hot side of my soleniod. It should be a prett short run to trouble shoot. Where is your main line going. I do know that mine takes a few miniutes to start charging.
I notice you have a battery isolator. have you verified voltage at the isolator? A failed isolator will prevent you from getting any charge.
Nothing at the isolator, but I figured since there is no 12 volt going into the alt, that it is not a surprise..
What if I just run a new lead from the hot side of the starter solenoid to the alt?
That should excite the alt. if you connect to the proper terminal...Cable
Don't sweat it....charge your batts and run it home, set up a temp voltage gage so you can monitor things ( I have used a multi meter tied into the electrical). KISS is the way to go, one of the advantages of a diesel is you don't need much DC to get it home, ( I'm guessing here but even DDEC can't use that much juice). Finally as long as your generator is properly exhausted there is no problem keeping it running while you are OTR.
Just remember, if the bus is not running, it could drain the batts. So be sure you can unhook it at the starter when off...Cable
there was a post I think on this skoolie person's site about the isolator interfering with the charging on his conversion. Something about the typical wiring not being compatible on his bus. Might look into it a bit....
http://www.vonslatt.com/bus-main.shtml (http://www.vonslatt.com/bus-main.shtml)
Boyce
did you check for voltage at all 3 terminals on the isolator? It's been a while since i fooled with isolators but if memory serves me correctly you should have voltage at battery post 1 and battery post 2, provided there is not a relay or switch in the off position between the isolator and the 2 sets of batteries which there should not be. the regulator you replaced i assume is built into the alternator? the larger wire on the alternator will only have voltage if the smaller wire is "seeing" voltage (only when engine running obviously). the smaller wire is the "field" wire and should have voltage when the engine is running or ignition in on position. if you're not getting any voltage on the field wire with engine running then you need to start there.
you'll have to forgive me if I'm not 100% accurate on this, it's been a long while since i messed with that kind of stuff.
That is not a Eagle setup,they run the wire from the solenoid to a relay in the rear the power from the switch activates the relay he should be able to run a wire from the hot side of the solenoid to the output terminal on the alternator then he should have a ignition terminal on the alternator 2 hot terminals he should lift off.
I am thinking they wired from the solenoid through the original charging relay because he has good voltage on the battery side of the isolator and only a 1/2 volt coming from the alternator side of the isolator and that is just leaking from the battery side of the isolator
It is going to be a simple fix they always are just to make you look dumb happens to me all the time lol
good luck
There now, you've gone and done it AGAIN Clifford! Just when a feller thinks he might know something you come along and show him he don't! Note to self...remember BUS,BUS,BUS,BUS....being a BUS it will be different than anything else in the world.
I don't have an eagle so this may not apply --- my voltage regulator has a setting that is for a set up with the isolator -- before I learned about that I connected a wire from the batteries to the center connection on the solenoid with a momentary switch --- touch the switch when the engine was running and it would start it charging -- now with the proper setting on the regulator I no longer need to use the switch.
HTH
YMMV
Melbo
where does the white wire go????? Does it have BATT stamped in the Alternator housing ???
Quote from: luvrbus on March 30, 2011, 05:52:14 PM
That is not a Eagle setup,they run the wire from the solenoid to a relay in the rear the power from the switch activates the relay he should be able to run a wire from the hot side of the solenoid to the output terminal on the alternator then he should have a ignition terminal on the alternator 2 hot terminals he should lift off.
I am thinking they wired from the solenoid through the original charging relay because he has good voltage on the battery side of the isolator and only a 1/2 volt coming from the alternator side of the isolator and that is just leaking from the battery side of the isolator
It is going to be a simple fix they always are just to make you look dumb happens to me all the time lol
good luck
Could it be the isolator that is bad and couldn't he just connect the alternator cable direct to the Battery 1 cable to see if it is charging that way? I have a 12v and a 24v belt driven on my MCI and I have 1 hot cable that goes from the alternator direct to the Battery on each. and thats it.
Quote from: robertglines1 on March 30, 2011, 06:21:57 PM
where does the white wire go????? Does it have BATT stamped in the Alternator housing ???
I think the white wire might go to an idiot light inside. The idiot light is hooked up to the wrong lens, so "low air" comes on which I think was supposed to say "No Charge".
Start at the batts ( both banks)1st, Voltage and holding a charge? Next as was mentioned, cables and connections, I'm sure DD disconnected the Batts before starting work (good safety practice to remember by the way ;)) and did the hookup (hopefully) after wards, and check for bad leads as they have a way of hiding inside the heavy insulation as I just found out last week. Battery cut off switches leading to the isolator/starter and rear elec box. this should get you going in the right direction, and usually leads to the fault some where along the line. good luck and keep us posted as to what you find. Good luck!
Van
Clifford and Cable are on the right track
Down and dirty is to hook 12 volt ignition source to the top terminal (currently empty). the terminals where the wires are presently landed is the relay terminal.
don't have any idea if the relay wire is used or not. hard to tell how the po wired it.
well crap, the picture is upside down may have to stand on your head to view correctly.
dick egler
You can always go directly from the starter cable post to the large +12v post on the alt and run a smaller wire from that to the exciter terminal - but as posted, you will need to be able to switch the smaller wire off when parked. You don't need a real heavy cable to do this unless you have a really heavy charging load.
So can I jump the large alternator cable to the battery side of the isolator? If so, do I need to find an ignition wire to connect with the empty terminal?
you need to connect 12 volts to the unused terminal. I,m wondering if the Willliams tech, hooked the red wire to the wrong terminal.
is it possible the red wire is switched by the pressure switch shown in the picture.
If you jump from the bat terminal to the unused terminal on the alternator, it should charge. I would remove the wires on the other post before trying.
when you shut down the bus, just disconnect the jumper.
should get you home.
Like Gus said, Just brush a 12v source to the large term on the alt. This will excite it and as long as you keep it running you should be able to remove it. I called Delco remy tech support on one of their alts before and asked if it would self excite and 2 of the engineers said yes. NO it would not, so much for tech support. Tom Y
I called Williams and asked if they did anything with the alternator. The mechanic assured me they had no reason to go near it. So the way it is wired is the way it has been since leaving Texas. It charged fine up till now... What would have changed and how was it working correctly if wired wrong?
What is the isolator for Marc is it for the house batteries the starting batteries should not have 1 in the loop the big wire from the solenoid to the alternator charges the starting batteries and I don't see that wire so the isolator is tied to the starting batteries the way it is now do you have separate batteries for the house ? or do both leads from the isolator go to the 2 starting batteries or 1 to the house battery, the isolator is doing it's job by just letting the current flow one way
good luck
Clifford,
I assumed that one side of the isolator lead to the house batteries and the other lead to the starting batteries. I can confirm this in the morning.
I wonder if the pressure switch went bad. If you jump across it do you get 12v at the red wire on the alt? Looks like it still needs 12v at unused terminal on alt. Red wire should do that if the pressure switch works...Cable
Eagle doesn't use a pressure switch in the charging system fwiw
good luck
remember could have been the 1st Williams shop that messed with it.....they weren't altogether there after all.
Quote from: luvrbus on March 30, 2011, 08:27:33 PM
Eagle doesn't use a pressure switch in the charging system fwiw
good luck
In 1 of the pictures Marc posted shows one of the wires going to a pressure switch on the fuel line. ??? ??? Is this something the PO might have done?
We go it. Turns out it has a "self-exciting" internal regulator and that there is no ignition lead. It was wired correctly all along. The isolator is bad, so we moved the alternator terminal to "battery 1", which is the starter battery bank and we are in business. Cory had. It right. Thanks for all the responses.
Marc
Yea! ;D Glad that worked out for you. Marc, Aren't you glad that you have such a large family .Cause all Busnuts have got to be related................
Very good news indeed :) :)! Damn the torpedoes! Full steam ahead.Now head for the barn and Keep an eye on your gauges! ;) Boy what an education Huh? ;)
The next 300 mi. should make this whole trip worth while...Cable
For sure! Here's to good weather and flat roads. ;)
WE'RE HOME!!!... Woohoo!!!.... Uh, well, I mean, we're home. :-\ NOW I CAN'T WAIT TO GO SOMEWHERE FOR REAL!!! ;D
;DHAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN! ;D
Is it Beer thirty
You Bet!