I've finally have everything up to par (somewhat) and have taken the plunge on my first outing. Santee, SC.............SC state park to be exact. Wow, what a wonderful feeling to get to use my investment, feul cost not withstanding, to have a weekend off. All I can say is wonderful.............thank you to all the members that aided with words of wisdom. I'm having a great time...........
Have fun, dad and I fished Santee many many times over the years. Wish I were there!
Boyce
You go!!
Awesome ain't it? We expect a fulll report.
Have Fun!!! Catch some fish and fire up the fryer and call all Busnuts to come help you eat them.. I'm not too far north and would love some fresh fried Catfish.. I've seen some monster catfish come out of Santee..
Jimmy
Didn't get a chance to do any fishing? Didn't even bring a fishing pole...this weekend was all about relaxation. And man was it nice. Only problem was when I went to fill up with diesel to top off the tank and finally get an estimate on what my fuel mileage was................ >:( approximately 5.5 mpg.......now that down right sucks. I didn't get her over 55, but there were quite a few hills between home and Santee. I'm not sure what to think of this. The guy I bought her from said he averaged 10 mpg......ummmm, I'm a little off of that average if I do say so. I guess that the strong winds and the hills drove down the fuel economy. Anyone got any ideas.....I can't stand the hit on my wallet with fuel usage like this....
P.S. '64 4106 with an 8V-71 and the 4 speed spicer.....
Billy -
First thought: Are you sure you left with a full tank of fuel? I.E.: Was it topped off the same at the filling before you left compared to your return?
I often encountered fill hoses that allowed the diesel to foam considerably, thus clicking off before a full tank. One particular coach (an MC-9) would take on an additional 20 gallons after the first, foam-induced click off. Did you experience this?
Sometimes, especially if the fuel island isn't completely level, you don't get a full fill either.
Let's see, you didn't get over 55 or so, plus several hills. Does that translate to you having to row yourself along in the lower gears a lot? If so, guess where your mileage went. . .
Plus - if you're pulling grades in 4th, and you see black smoke out the exhaust, guess where your fuel mileage is going. . .
Might also want to check/clean your air filters - restricted air flow kills fuel mileage, too.
OTOH, aren't you glad you went and had a nice, relaxing time?
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
First and foremost.........yes, I'm very glad to have had the opportunity to relax this weekend after eating, breathing and sleeping bus for the last two and a half months..... ;D
I'm pretty sure it was full. It clicked off and I looked inside to see if I could see a level and I thought I saw it (in hindsight, it could have just been foam)...
Lower gears on hills.....check
Lugging occasionally....unfortunately, check
Air filters should be clean, I pulled and ran them through a varsol vat to remove dust and dirt and then reinstalled with fresh oil in the pans.
You could quite possible be right about the foam issue though. I need to get a fuel gauge installed.....
I have a 4106 as well and when driving 55 got up near 10mpg. As for seeing the fuel level in the tank, the filler neck is curved so I think that would be difficult.
Regards
Fred
Opp's did not realize it was a GM ::) JIm
I can get a fair amount in after the pump clicks off if i wait for 20-30 seconds for the foam to settle. Usually have to do it several times in fact. To make sure i am always full i fill it until i can see clear fuel in the neck of the tank. That way i know how much fuel i have used to within 1/10th of a gallon or less when i figure my mileage. :)
The foaming issue is very reassuring. To be honest, it didn't really cross my mind. I sure hope that has a lot to do with my calculations.
Icing on the cake. Just checked my oil and it appears that I've burned over a gallon and a half in a measly 220 miles. The PO was running Rotella 15W40 and I've since replaced it with Delo 100, but still....burning that much oil in under a 1000 or so miles seems a bit excessive. I haven't noticed any smoking either. I do see oil spots all over the rear after cleaning and driving for a few miles..... ???
on my 4106 i keep the oil a little low,if it is right on the line it seems to use more...pulling a car across Canada i got 6.8 which was depressing to say the least.
As others said the oil will find a "happy" level after some use.
Try running it a little under full mark then you might try just above the add mark.
Make sure it is not leaking a bunch, check slobber tubes, etc.
Sounds like the engine just needs to be run. 220 miles barely warms it up. I'll bet your oil consumption will slow down and mileage will go up after some miles.
I know miles are hard with fuel prices.........
Sounds like you are having a blast. Wish I was there. Have fun, be safe.
Best,
Justin
BUS=55 to 60mph anymore and we pay through the injectors ;D
Glad you had a good time. M&C
Everything is a variable right now, you have no foundation by which to compare.
Fill the tank to the neck when you want to check your mileage, at your favorite pump, the same every time.
Change your present calculations by 5 and 10 gallons... see how badly that changes things?
On the oil, how long after shut down did you pull the dip stick? This isn't your father's Oldsmobile, it takes time to drain down. It will be higher in the morning than at a fuel stop after shut down.
Are you sure it was full after the change? Ran it and let it sit and checked for what filled the filter?
lots too many variables to be worrying yet.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I am of the belief that most overstate their fuel mileage, not so much intentionally (except sellers), but many owners are of the "cup is half full" mentality. I do think your manual tranny hopefully will do better than those numbers you are reporting. The 10mpg claim though is so often repeated that it is almost becoming an urban legend around the bus community that any 4 spd GM will get that. Many seem to want to be a member of that questionable club, and there is much chest beating over it. I am one that is very skeptical of those high MPG numbers under normal driving and use conditions. Downhill heading east from the Rockies to the Mississippi river with a tail wind on the interstate will certainly give you some great MPG numbers, but start throwing some grades and a stop and go or two in the mix, and everyone gets to enjoy single digit average MPG. Be satisfied when you get over 6, and extremely happy when you are getting over 7, and you will enjoy bus ownership even that much more. Many of the gas pickup trucks pulling those monster fifth-wheel trailers are not doing much better.
Quote from: Barn Owl on March 13, 2011, 07:35:31 PM
Many of the gas pickup trucks pulling those monster fifth-wheel trailers are not doing much better.
No kidding. And the ride is out of this world.
Billy -Buswarrior's words of wisdom are excellent at this point.
Let me add that you should check your engine's dipstick length also - it should show the "full" mark to be 1" below the block/oil pan interface. Over the years, these have often been lost, repaired, stolen off another coach, etc. Double check to make sure yours reads right.
Best to check oil in the morning, before hitting the start button.
As others have said, let it "drift" down to a "sweet spot" somewhere between the corrected "fill" and "add" marks.
Paul -Quote from: artvonne on March 13, 2011, 07:47:52 PM
No kidding. And the ride is out of this world.
Heck, I can feel my little 4x8 utility trailer behind the Tacoma and don't like it - would HATE to know what one of those monster fifth-wheels feels like in the cab of a 1-ton dually! Bet many a chiropracter has bought a new BMW off the fees of the fifth-wheelers! Whiplash anyone?
Laryn -Quote from: Barn Owl on March 13, 2011, 07:35:31 PM
I am of the belief that most overstate their fuel mileage, not so much intentionally (except sellers), but many owners are of the "cup is half full" mentality.
Hey, it's the "sell the sizzle, not the steak" marketing that's been bred into our uniquely American culture!
You know, like the busnut who says he gets 12 mpg - 6 in town plus 6 on the highway - it's all in how you spin it!
Quote from: Barn Owl on March 13, 2011, 07:35:31 PM
Many of the gas pickup trucks pulling those monster fifth-wheel trailers are not doing much better.
You know, several years ago on the old MAK bbs (the one that kept crashing), there was a fuel mileage-related thread by a guy with an ex-Hound MCI (I think it was), who had just gotten back from an off-road motorcycle event that took place somewhere outside Tucson. He belonged to some club, so traveled to the event from the San Diego area with several other RVs, a mix of Class A's, Class C's, and fifth-wheel toters (which were brand new at the time).
What he was really elated over was the
range he had with the bus, compared to the others - who were all getting about the same 6 mpg. He loved the fact he only had to fuel once on the entire round trip, whereas the others made anywhere from three to five fuel stops over the same distance (roughly 850 miles).
He also raved about the amount of
time he saved with the bus by NOT having to make all those fuel stops.
Even at 5 mpg, advantage = bus!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Not to change the subject but to throw in what I experienced with the wrong oil. I bought the bus and the owner swore the shop changing the oil used the right oil. I dived into the receipts later and found they were in fact using the wrong oil. My bus was smoking and using more oil than I thought it should. Well come to find out they were using Delo400. So I replaced what was burning off and dripping out with Delo100. It continued to smoke and use more oil than I thought it should.
I decided to change the oil completely. I did and it vurtually stopped the smoking exhaust and I lose very very little oil now. I have about 2000 miles on that last oil change and if memory serves me correctly, only once have I had to put oil in it. I might have replaced a little over a quart in that amount of miles.
The point is I could not tell if you replaced what was lost. If not try changing it all together.
I have a 64 4106 and she does use up some oil, I have let it get lower on the stick as advised on this board and it has worked. I can figure about a gallon if i run her all day. I get around 7-8 the way i figure. Started her for the first time this year and she set off on the first turn, I think i am in love. Bus is like a boat just take her out and don't worry about the fuel, it was a deal you made when you bought it.
Hey bwze:
Congratulations on that first check-ride. Feels good, don't it? Now, to put some of those excellent fuel and oil mileage suggestions to the test, how about pointing that GM north on I-26 and coming to the Southeast Bus Nuts Rally in Cleveland, about 2+ hrs away - April 29-May 1 - It's just west of Spartanburg. Check the Rallies and Events section of this board for details.
I expect Gene Russell will be there, and no one in SC knows more about 2-strokes than he. A nicer guy you'd never want to meet. Plus several other GMs conversion owners to swap tales with.
Hope to see you there!
Mike in GA
As far as finding a "happy" level with oil, how are you guys determining this? My level was a inch below the add mark. Oh yeah, and I checked this about three or four hours after getting home yesterday. Maybe too soon......???
Busswarrior –
QuoteChange your present calculations by 5 and 10 gallons... see how badly that changes things?
What do you mean by this?
RJ -
How do I go about checking my dipstick length. I understand that you say the full level is about an inch below the pan to block interface, but how can I measure this? Does anyone know the correct dipstick length and measurements from said dipstick end to corresponding full and add marks?
wal1809 -
When I serviced her back in January, I completely removed the 15W40 Rotella the PO was running, changed the catridge filter with a spin on adapter that I got from Luke and added 7 fresh gallons of Delo 100 40wt. (This was of course after running her to fill the fiters and checking again after she cooled back down.)
Mike in GA -
I'd love to make it to the Palmetto Cove event, but changes in my job included a substantial pay cut that ain't being helped by the current fuel prices (or how this old girl seems to be drinking diesel). We're trying to stay sorta close to home until, hopefully, something changes for the better. I'd love to meet up with Gene though....sounds like a good friend to have..... ;D
Again, thanks for all the help guys....
One more thing came to mind also. I asked about speed going up grades in this post (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=19194.0).....
RJ said this in response to my removing the limit bolt beneath the accelerator pedal...
QuoteReinstall the bolt under the throttle pedal, it's there for a reason. Then adjust the throttle linkage per DA BOOK. Good excuse to lubricate the cable while you're at it - the old grease gets pretty gunked up over time. Heck, might as well service the entire pedal assembly (throttle and brake) while you're working on it - they're much nicer to operate when lubed properly. If you don't have DA BOOK, let us know, we can help.
Well I did reinstall the bolt, but obviously because my accelerator cable is stretched, with the bolt in place I was getting nowhere fast. So I removed it and do plan to reinstall. I just didn't want to get started on that job after I promised the wife we were going to finally use it and have to renege on that promise. Anyway, I do plan to pull, inspect and replace this cable if necessary.........long story short, is it possible that this could have had something to do with the fuel economy?
In your fuel economy calculations, subtract 5 and 10 gallons from what you pumped and see the effect on your final mpg number.
Makes quite a difference, eh?
Also, confirm the method of measuring distance. Odometers are notoriously wonky. GPS are fair, but they are known to be off as well. Run two of them and see them fight!
This is what might be called "margin for error".
If you can change the amount of a fill by 5 or 10 or 20 gallons depending on how you fill it, the lean on the coach, different back pressure settings on different pumps, by re-doing the calculations, you can see how sensitive the final result is to those changes.
One trip, you get really lousy numbers, the next trip, bragging rights!
The more tank fulls you use in your calculations, the more consistent you are in filling methods, the more dependable your calculations become.
I always fill it all the way right to the neck, in order to minimize the variability of how the coach is sitting at each pump. Many more gallons go in the tank after the nozzle shuts off the first time.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Congratulations on your first (successful!) outing. I will echo what others have said in, don't get discouraged right away! Yes, fuel prices are grim and these behemoths suck fuel like mad. That includes my 4104 with 6-71 and Spicer 4-speed. I live in a mountainous area and have come to expect no more than 7 mpg or so. Of course, I've always got my foot buried in the thing so as not to be a "rolling roadblock". If your '06 is running good and strong, I sincerely believe that your mileage will exceed my own. You have to get used to driving it too (assuming that you have not driven a bus much before?). I've learned to really take my time and will no longer be rushed by those annoying folk who stand on their horns and salute with one finger as they whiz past! ;D
Anyhow, give it a few more runs and see how she behaves. You may be pleasantly surprised. Or, to rephrase, May you be pleasantly surprised! :) Every time I grumble about fuel costs, my wife patiently reminds me that we could be traveling by car and paying for hotels everywhere we travel... instead of camping right along the coast in the summer, or in the desert dirt-biking in winter. It is a luxury, but one you can afford. Enjoy!
Kevin
I completely agree with the comments others have made regarding tank filling discrepancies, and other factors. One other item I'd like to ask about is: "What are you seeing in your rear mirrors?" By that, I'm asking about any about any exhaust color. When you accelerate, are you seeing any black exhaust? I don't know what injectors you are running, or whether the "rack has been run" this decade. When you put your foot into it, if you are seeing much smoke of the black variety, that is basically extra fuel going out your tail pipe.
In the early days of owning my 4104, I was running larger injectors. There were times when I was climbing a hill, or merging on an interstate, and I had the pedal to the floor. At the time, I did not realize that black soot meant I was feeding the engine more fuel than it could use. I don't want to think about the extra gallons wasted.
busswarrior, I see what you mean. Huge difference with just 5 gallons. Went from 5.5 to over 13. Thank you, and everyone else for your guidance.
Kevin, your wife does have a good point. I've told my wife that if she's planning any beach trips, that we should plan for more that a couple of days to really make it worth our wild.
WEC4104, I'm not seeing any smoke at all. Maybe a little white smoke at startup and when first pulling off, but after moving on down the road, I don't notice any. This was another reason, I was questioning the oil level from an earlier post above.
plan for more that a couple of days to really make it worth our wild
Yep, the longer the drive the longer you should plan on staying. If staying in the State parks, like Santee state park, you can really be ahead of the game money wise versus renting a hotel room somewhere. But, you gotta go where you're going and sit tight long enough for the money to work out to your advantage....
Did you get some pictures of your maiden trip to post for us?
Boyce
BIlly & Boyce,
Since you guys are right up the road you are always welcome to stop in for a visit. I'm smack dabb in the middle of converting a 1982 Eagle model 10. We're located 2 miles off I26 at exit 165 near Bowman. If you can work it out come join a bunch of us at Myrtle Beach Mar 30 thru April 3rd at the Eagles international "Carolina No Foolin Around" rally. Ocean Lakes has extended a very good rate to us & you can put faces to some of us here on the board.
Hey John, I'm planning on stopping by some time to see you. It was good talking with ya the other day too. As far as MB at the end of the month, as I stated up in an earlier post, my job has recently taken a turn for the worse in the pay department due to a buyout by another company and the funds are kinda under a very watchful eye now. Hopefully next year I can make it to the Palmetto Cove rally and meet up with some of you guys.....and keep an eye out for a big green 4106 in your yard 'cause I'm liable to stop by any day....... ;D
Thanks for the invite John! I've been getting anxious for some new scenery. I may try to make a day trip upstate to the Palmetto Cove rally, and also to the MB Eagle rally just to see the other busses. My Scenic is years from being driven, so I will be bringing the family in our van. Like I said just looking for some easy day trips!
Boyce
Well I had a chance to check my fuel mileage again this weekend. The wife and I made a trip to Edisto Beach State Park. We had already planned and reserved for this trip before my recent job changes (see above posts).
I stopped by a truck stop on the way down and filled her up into the neck, to a point that I could use as a reference. I made sure I was level and then I noted my mileage. I also used a GPS unit to double check the mileage in case the speedometer was off. During the trip, we only used secondary roads through small towns and I rarely got over 55 mph. There weren't hardly any hills and I didn't really get caught by a lot of traffic lights.
On the way back, I stopped by the exact same truck stop and used the same pump to make sure I was comparing apples to apples. Anyway, when I did my calculations of miles traveled divided by gallons to reach my reference point, I was surprised to see that I was getting 11.45 mpg. Now just to swing to the conservative side of things, I'm gonna call it 10, but I did take my time both times while filling to ensure that the foam was completely settled and that I was seeing a true fuel level in the neck.
Bottom line, I'm happy.....thanks buswarrior, and others, for showing my the error of my ways...
wow Billy, that's great news! Gives me at least some questionable hope my Scenic may see 8mpg!
Boyce
A drive to my house would give you 6. That is a great number though.
thats the mileage that my brothers 4106 gets as well.... on the freeway that is. way better than my 7.5 at best.
I been getting around 6 mpg in our S&S Bounder with a Cummins/Allison pusher. Bangin and rattlin and bouncin and boomin all the way. WHADYASAY, I DIDNT HEAR YOU!
I dont know what this MC5 is going to get, but even if its just 6 I win.
I ran down to Little Rock today to bring the Bounder home. I planned to keep it until the Bus was up and ready, but im thinking this was the last ride. It probably will never be worth a penny more than its worth right now. Saw $4.09 diesel today, that aint good.
RJ, I had a 1 ton dually Ford extra cab, and pulled a 35 foot 5th wheel. The ride was unbelievable, your constantly being jerked foreward and backward like in an old leaf spring sprung Semi Truck wi i ith a f f ful l l l Loo oa a dd. One 300 mile trip and I was onto the Bounder. They can have those things. Nice when parked though.