It seems long ago that I was seeing many posts about visits to Mex. Lately, not so much. With all the horrific drug related violent crime I though others as timid and faint of heart as myself would be altering their annual trek plans. Still, I know some hearty souls that would not be discouraged by such goings on.
Is anybody going down there, still? Most of that country is fantastic and hospitable almost to a fault. The border area on their side is a different story. Do you guys hit the border at a run, keeping you head down, and beat feet till you get 25 miles south?
John
John, I fueled the boat a few months back it is still setting in San Diego we had a big trip plan but both of us have reservations about going now they are killing people past the 25 miles lol
good luck
Clifford,
Sorry to hear that your style has been cramped. :( >:( And to think that you, unlike a bus, cam run stealthy at night and without any run'n lights to give away your movements. :P
I want to talk to you about matters not bus. How can i contact you off the board?
Thanks for your post,
John
I wouldn't venture into that hotbed of criminals for anything. I don't even go near it on this side anymore. It is much much more of a problem than they even let on to be on the television. Travel there is just short of suicide IMHO.
I have a running buddy who used to spend a lot of time in Mexico, a few years ago he quit driving down and would fly in, he has a lot of friends and business connections down there. For the last year or so he will not even fly down, he says he knows a lot of great people down there but they tell him to stay out now.
Rick
Quote from: wal1809 on March 07, 2011, 01:32:33 PM
I wouldn't venture into that hotbed of criminals for anything. I don't even go near it on this side anymore. It is much much more of a problem than they even let on to be on the television. Travel there is just short of suicide IMHO.
And those idiots are trying to "stop" the gun flow into Mex from the USA. I am a member of the NRA and we will tell anyone and provide prove that the more guns that are in your community the safer you will be. There is irrefutable proof, I tell ya. My membership gets me huge discounts and I spend a lot of time at the range and they knock some off also.
Try to see the movie "No Country for Old Men". It explains a lot.
I am with you WAL. The place was always scary to me but now it is insane. Pitty.
rick we live in costa rica and we hear a lot of bad stuff on the local news and we talk only spanish watch spanish news tv ect
we talk english when in the states i would not go to mexico right now if someone paid me just my 2 cents but 30 & years in centro
america john & lidia
Christi and I went down South 5 or 6 times a year for many years and we miss it so much it hurts. The beach, the people, everything. But, we can't take the chance anymore. The loss of life or property is just to great for us thrill seekers...........for now! One day we will venture back to that wonderful land down South. For now we will close our eyes and dream.........Mmmmmmm..........M&C ;D
And those idiots are trying to "stop" the gun flow into Mex from the USA. I am a member of the NRA and we will tell anyone and provide prove that the more guns that are in your community the safer you will be. There is irrefutable proof, I tell ya. My membership gets me huge discounts and I spend a lot of time at the range and they knock some off also.
Try to see the movie "No Country for Old Men". It explains a lot. I am with you WAL. The place was always scary to me but now it is insane. Pitty.
[/quote]
Oh no doubt about it. I have traveled to Mexico extensively as I live fairly close. Every yer since the 1940s my father took customers from the oilfield down there to hunt white wing doves and deer. When I came along later I was very lucky to be a tag along. I used to scuba dive down there. Even took day trips when I was hunting in South Texas.
The only way to stop that border danger is to stop the border. Shut it completely down. No movement whatsoever. If it crosses stop it detain it and turn it back the other way. I'll pose this question to y'all. If a cartel can bring in 2000 pounds of any illegal substance like cocaine and or marijuana. Who is to say the taliban could not or would not come over to the cartels and pay them 20 million to carry in a nuclear bomb. Yall tell me why that could not happen. I don't feel safe as long as the border is open. One nuclear bomb in 4 cities in this country and the nation will be in a shamble. They want to do it, what is to stop them? Cease all border movement!!!
If a cartel can bring in 2000 pounds of any illegal substance like cocaine and or marijuana. Who is to say the Taliban could not or would not come over to the cartels and pay them 20 million to carry in a nuclear bomb. Ya'all tell me why that could not happen.
I'll tell ya that! I don't think that Alkayda can afford those cartel guys. And, those cartel folk ain't stupid. If they toast all their customers how are they gonna make any cash. The Alkida is teetotalers and drug averse. Those two groups, Alkider and cartel, have a lot of conflict that isn't obvious. ;D ;D ;D
I don't feel safe as long as the border is open.
I would have most of the heart burn you have.
One nuclear bomb in 4 cities in this country and the nation will be in a shamble.
I don't think it would take 4 but two would do it. We couldn't handle even a big blow like Katrina but maybe with the new team?????.
They want to do it, what is to stop them?
Rest assured that they will do anything in their power to harm our nation and people and they are merciless. Keep in mind that the Talleybaan is local to Afganastan while Alkahydah is international.
Cease all border movement!!!
I don't think we can do that and that's not saying you have a bad idea. BUT, passing a new law isn't going to do the trick and we will never be rich enuff to bulid a wall across out entire southern border. Then the northern? Mine the beaches?
Mexico has pleaded with us to stop the narcotics flow because the cartels are filthy rich and armed to the teeth and killing people and corrupting law enforcement. I first took note of that about 98 and they haven't stopped carping and wining about the problem in the ensuing years. Tons of info on how the Fed Pens have 80% of the cons in there for drug related causes. More than half of those are marijuana related and a big chunk are blacks busted for CRACK in minuscule quantities that are barely prosecutable if the crack is unprocessed....that's called cocaine. Makes no sense to me. We pay a princely sum to prosecute those offenders and then we spend tens of thousands of dollars to incarcerate them. Spend the money on medical care cause we are dumping billions into the emergency rooms where these birds often land. There are so many things that won't work and almost all of them have been tried through the ages and they have failed miserably. Kill'em ALL, build a dang wall, nuke'em, CLOSE THE BORDER. All of those are exercises in futility and will not work an some are beyond the pale of behavior for civilized People. I'm talking about the wall here. ;D
You want to contribute to your safety? Get behind some of these people that are offering viable solutions. Don't be a liberal or lefty....just grab a piece of this and growl. Try and put your finger on who it is that is advocating that you spend more of your tax dollars on futile prisons cause while we certainly need them we don't need as many as we are supporting....a senseless dream of isolationism...more laws....impossibly expensive walls that cannot be maintained/manned even if we could build one. Find out who supports drug rehabilitation, drug education, emptying the prison of non violent inmates that were guilty of involvement with non habituating and non addictive drugs, "E" is wanted by the Psyc profession for the treatment of many diabolical and crippling mental disorders but it was made illegal by the head of the DEA without scientific data input, and the list goes on and on and on. We are protestants and not protesters so lets get moving in that positive direction. And WAL, I am armed to the teeth....just for your perspective on where my sympathies lie. I have a conservative bent. ;D ;D
Love ya and wish you happiness and peace of mind....you deserve it.
John
I have been reading the blog of 'Tioga George' for years. He travels in a Class C motorhome nearly full time in Mexico. He's in his 70s and has a MotoSat dish for daily blog updates. He makes his living from blogging about his travels. I've written to him and I've read his blog frequently enough that I trust what he says. He says Mexico is safer than the US for RV travel. Of course, I don't think he's camping in drug war zones. George is a regular guy without much money. He's likable, and has developed a large following of readers such that he makes about $12,000 a year in Google AdSense income from just writing about boondocking in his RV. He's been doing this for some 8 years now, with no break. Even if you're not thinking about traveling to Mexico, I recommend you visit his blog. Here's the address:
http://blog.vagabonders-supreme.net/ (http://blog.vagabonders-supreme.net/)
Enjoy.
Kevin Warnock
http://KevinWarnock.com (http://kevinwarnock.com)
1994 RTS Series 50
Kevin,
Thank you for your post. I will take George's words to heart. I know there must be vast expanses of Mex that are crime free and safe but I don't know where they are and how best to access them. Regardless, anyone would have to pass thru the "ZONE" and thereby hangs the tale.
Your advice or George's flies in the face of conventional wisdom at this time and that makes it all the more interesting to me.
Thank you most appreciatively,
John
Over the years I have spent quite a few winters in Mexico. I have always traveled as fast as I could through the northern 100 miles or so. I never drive at night if there is any way to avoid it, so I avoid it. This is really really important no matter where in Mexico you are, I have seen way too many weird/dangerous things driving down desolate highways at night......Anyhoo I love Mexico and since i lovve it I have been paying attention to all the crime hysteria for the past decade or so. Most of the border crime is gang/turf/police wars and has nothing to do with tourists.
I don't drive fancy rigs in Mexico, and I dress poor. I stay away from tourist meccas, my spanish is decent I have paid 2 bribes in all the time I have been in Mexico, one was to upgrade a seat on a train, the other was to avoid an impound on my van (which would have cost more). F ing DF.
Btw last I heard the crime rate against tourists in Mex was way down the list...Jamaica was at the top and Costa Rica ahead of Mex.
ZubZub,
Another reason to buy a 4104.....visit Mex with impunity. ;) ;D
It is nice to hear that statistic about crime. And that you are still having a good and reasonably priced vacation.
Thank you,
John
Yall enjoy. Let me know how Mexico is doing when you get back.
Wal,
Don't worry about me.....I ain't going near the place. Zub is special and talented and he can go where I would leave my life and he would come out unscathed and well fed. I was uncomfortable down there the few times I went down in the 70's and I gradually swore off completely. I let the visitors go with the wife alone cause she thought there was absolutely nothing that could happen.....right!
I am with you. Still, I like to hear about guys that can pull of what I can't. Don't expect any post cards from me little feller. ;D
John
Wal you play with snakes but wont go to Mexico? At least you show some sence and value for your well being! If YOU wont go to Mexico, there aint nooooo way I would go and take my family even if diesel was 0.10 gallon!!!
I have a friend who crossed over about 8 years ago in the Big Bend Area of SW Texas south of Alpine. This is not a tourist area and is pretty isolated. He was stopped , his pick-up searched and they found an EMPTY 12 Ga. shotgun casing way back under his seat. He was beaten severely, escorted back to the border and felt very lucky to get out alive. He said it was 6 men wearing military uniforms in 2 trucks that stopped and beat on him for about an hour.
After he drove back across he spent a couple of weeks in a hospital and still walks with a limp from the beating he took.
About 6 months before this my wife and I were in the same area and wanted to go across, we stopped at a store on the US side and the guy running the store talked us out of going over. Like I said this was more than 8 years ago and I don't think things have gotten better.
I ain't going!
Your friend was lucky they only beat him. Normally the Policia Federali will hold their prisoners hostage until the family has exhausted their life savings to get them out of prison. The last person I read about lost 100,000 US dollars by the time it was all said and done.
Most of y'all know I am the police, it is not a very well kept secret. I work on US Hwy 59 on the south side of Houston. We get intel reports all the time. Officers on this side doing drug interdiction have price tags on their heads. Gun battles with fully automatic weapons are a daily event.
I was in Vera Cruz last year. We were diverted there because of a hurricane. At every corner on the street around the square were trucks with 5 or 6 federal police. All of them strapped with fully automatic weapons. All of them had to wear black face masks to bide their identity from cartel employees. The federal police expected trouble and brought in every available man.
Don't get me wrong I love going to Mexico. When I stood at the church and promised my family, my wife's family and God that I would take care of her I meant it. Taking my wife to Mexico knowing what I know now falls short of my promises.
Rick,
Sad and valuable story. I thought they did that if they found so much as a single bullet or gun. Boy, they sure are strict. ???
I was told for an infraction such as that they confiscate the vehicle and all contents. I first pondered the the temptation that a bus must be for them to grab it for any trumped up excuse. And we haven't even touched on jealousy.
I had friends that spent every day of every vacation down there. They told stories for hours on end of how extraordinarily well they had been treated by complete strangers in the interior and rural Mex. I have my own very unbelievable stories from Chile, San Tieago, Conception and Talcheono(sic).
Thank you and Wal for sharing.
John
There is no doubt there are some very nice and friendly folks down there. There is also no doubt it can be, has been and will be again the wild wild west down there. The violence is not restricted to just the border. It is everywhere. We were in Cozumel last year when the bomb in Cancun went off in a local bar there. Those are both really touristy type of areas. Never dreamed the cartels would be raging violence in either one of those cities. WEll they are.
I have heard that having any firearms or shells in your vehicle are grounds for a long jail time also. Maybe after the severe beating they gave my friend they did not want to take him to in the higher ups? After all someone was looking at a hospital bill or deposing of a body.
Maybe in the long run the beating he received was the better way out for him?
Remember this was not a beating by Drug Cartel Folks, this was the authorities.
Rick
Oh I know about the authorities. It is a different world. DEfinately long term jailable offense in Mexico for carrying even a spent shell casing. It is considered part of what it takes to make a bullet. They want to sieze vehicles and charge your family all they have for fees to get you out. It is a form of legal kidnapping.
I would love BOTN's take on this one. He has toured there quite a bit. ;D M&C
I asked BOTN, a couple years ago, about the safety of driving down there. He answered that if a person has any reservations that they should not go there. He was being helpful. BOTN, I think, works down there on building an orphanage....might be another. I don't know if he is still going down there. He is a resourceful and savvy gent and the perfect Knut.
John
As a second-generation missionary, I have lived in Mexico since I was six months old. (That was 1956, by the way.) For the last 25 years, we are based in San Juan del Río, in the state of Querétaro. 6,800 feet above sea level. 100 miles North West of Mexico City. 600 miles South of the border. And in our work, we travel extensively all over central and southern Mexico.
I have seen a lot of things in this great nation. And this is without a doubt the worst I have ever seen. Over 35,000 have been killed in the last four years of narco violence. In my opinion, President Calderón has shown a lot of valor in being the first president in decades to confront the drug cartels. More drug people have been put in prison during his rule than at any time in history.
What I hear from friends living in northern Mexico is: Never travel Mexico's northern (border) states (Tamaulipas, Coahuila, Nuevo León, Sonora, Sinaloa, Baja California Norte) after dark.
My wife Blanca is a very well known conference speaker. Over the last 18 months, dozens of her women's conferences (typically 800-2,000 ladies) in northern Mexico have been cancled due to the violence.
I personally have not been north to the U.S. border in almost 2 years.
I feel that President Calderón is on the right track, and he will win this war and make Mexico a safer place.
Several mention Mexico's gun laws. Yes: Don't even think of bringing anything gun-related with you, if you come down. Two to three years in prison.
BOTN had a trip planned but he is the capt. of his own ship right now. Maybe he can chime in on this one? "O Bob"? M&C ;D
Quote from: Mex-Busnut
In my opinion, President Calderón has shown a lot of valor in being the first president in decades to confront the drug cartels. More drug people have been put in prison during his rule than at any time in history.
I feel that President Calderón is on the right track, and he will win this war and make Mexico a safer place.
Several mention Mexico's gun laws. Yes: Don't even think of bringing anything gun-related with you, if you come down. Two to three years in prison.
Dr. Steve,
While I do appreciate you sharing your first hand knowledge and experiences with us.
And even agree that President Calderon has a lot of "valor" and ambitions toward stopping the drug trafficking problem.
I think he is making great steps to make Mexico a safer place. But the drug trafficking did not come about over night and it's not going to go away that quick either!
I hope your right about him winning the war, but then again people here in our country thought Obama was an answer for our problems too!
I truly would love to see the drug wars and zars disappear, and in time it may. But it has a lot of opposition and it's going to take a lot of time, $, and lives in order to win the war on drugs and I personally thing that the drug zars have more of all 3 to lose than anyone else!
Most honorable Mr. Busted Knuckle:
Thanks for your post.
I am not deceiving myself about ending drug traffic any time soon. But I certainly do believe this level of unsurpassed violence can be brought under control. Both America and Mexico (and Europe) have a huge drug consumption problem. Besides those who see drugs as just another form of "recreation", multitudes of people are hurting from situations they have lived and suffered. Unequipped to cope with the very pain of living, their anesthesia is many times drugs or alcohol. (Maybe some use bus addiction! ;D)
Mexico used to be just a drug producer and also a trafficking country. Today it is also becoming a drug-using nation, like America.
I am sure you have seen the news stories about Mexican drug gangs crossing into Arizona and kidnapping ranchers for ransom. America needs to strengthen its borders.
I love America and I love Mexico. We sure look forward to a time when we can travel the Mexican highways safely once again.
Ive been saying this for most of my adult life, but the majority just can not see it. As long as drugs are illegal, they will be expensive. The harder people try to irradicate it, the more expensive they will get. The criminal penalties you exact, the more people are made criminals. Once an honest man is made a criminal, they have less to lose. The more expensive something becomes, the more one is willing to risk.
There is no difference in the war on drugs, than prohibition in the 1920's. All prohibition did was drove honest people into criminial behavior and made them criminals. All prohibition gave us were large government beaurocracies that are virtually as lawless as the criminals they are trying to stop. The more we jack up the effort to stop it, the more expensive it becomes, the more risk people are willing to take to put into peoples hands.
There will never be an end to this, it will only grow in violence and cost. Were spending $100's of billions a year now, and its never once, not in 50 years, gotten one bit better. Now they are tunneling under the border, building subs, and using the ever increasing amounts of money to better arm themselves. They have hybridised pot and cocain plants to produce higher yields with greater potency, to the point the drugs are much more dangerous than the way the Lord gave them to us.
We could do a 180. We could completely legalise common drugs like Pot and Coke, and police people for driving under the influence. We could open up prisons to real hard case criminals. We could tax the drugs instead of blowing billions to enforce it. We could knock down FBI and ATF staff and get rid of their fancy aircraft and other equipment, and save more $billions. We could spend more money on education, science, space exploration, and electrical power generation technology.
With legal drugs, the cartels will disappear, drugs lords will go away, and the drugs themselves will become almost worthless overnight, and the plants will become more natural and less potent. I doubt it will happen, to much money involved now for anyone to see the light. Its just going to continue until there is so much bloodshed and expense no one will know how to stop it, because by then, the war wont be over drugs anymore, it will just be over killing each other. If were not there already.
I really am against drug use of any kind unless prescribed by a good doctor. Heck, I dont even like to take tylenol! But I do agree, drugs are ruining America and Mexico in more then one way. And I also agree that if it were legal and sold and distributed and controlled like alcohol then both America and Mexico would be safer places.
Art,
Thank you. Were I to say what you did, some would think me a liberal, as though being opposed to crime and a scourge on humanity is a political litmus of some sort. Go figure. I agree with all that you said. You may have been to young for this at the time it happened, but, Richard Millhouse Nixon, a man with many neurotic compulsive bents, was loath of the threat of Marijuana. In his simplistic and ill-informed mind he saw M as a gateway drug and a highly addictive substance though it is proven to be NOT addictive. He was loath that cursed and cussed musicians were using the stuff and setting a bad example for "our precious children". His answer was a remarkably sane one in that he wanted to prove all those people that were poo pooing the dangers of pot were wrong conclusively. He formed the most Blue of Blue Ribbon panels every assembled to "expose the true nature and dangers" of pot. His commission was composed of medical doctors of many strip, psychologists, socialists, law enforcement, college professors, etc. Hitters one and all. Before any were granted a seat at the table, looked to have 20+ chairs to me, they had to swear an oath of secrecy. Well after many months and a liberal
dose of cash the C produced it's final report and sent it off to the White House. They say Nixon went berserk when he read the executive summary(it was never published). His response, even before his blood pressure started coming back down and he regained full control of his bowels was to classify the report and all documentation associated with it as TOP SECRET NATIONAL DEFENSE CRITICAL, and he had the expiration date set for "always and forever and ever". None of the commission members, many of which would have broken their vow to get the findings to the public, were now faced with life terms in the fed prison system. Not a peep was heard. Uncle Joe Stalin did exactly the same with the intelligentsia of Russia by giving a massive tour of a gulag and letting the word spread form the "smart folk" themselves. Other tyrants did all this long ago so Dick gets no credit for being creative and the results are also delineated in history. See why HISTORY is so very scoffed at in some circles and the professors that spew the "propaganda" and poison young minds are always "Lefties".
I had a friend that I cherished in many ways. He was Hawaiian, considerably older than I and a retired US Army Master sergeant. His first name was Ed but the best I can do for his last name was "Pie ah new ey" and he lived in SD. He fled the Chinese hordes that swept south in Korea and ran with the Marines at Chow Lin Reservoir(?) and saw the chasing enemy kill American stragglers. Ed was a hero to me and the Army and he was decorated I am certain although he wasn't the type to ever divulge that type of personal info. I worked beside him on the night shift and we were alone in the plant. I talked about the "scourge of drugs one night" and Ed, always the "arch conservative", and me also at the time, had a strange tale to tell. He said " In the islands the work can be brutal and the pay not so good. All the men get around the fire in the village on Saturday night to celebrate. Some drink whiskey, some smoke opium, and almost all smoke pot
and hash. We don't have a drug problem and we have always done this. We don't have addicts very often but sometimes a man will start using any of these things every night and he is sick with it. Very very few Hawaiians but more Howlies(whites from the main land) get addicted and the opium or whiskey ruins them. That shouldn't make my father and mother and uncles and friends criminals or guilty of anything or deprive them of their pleasures. They all live a very hard life." Curious words coming from a patriotic American with bonifides. Ed spoke so very little and he proved so correct and insightful so many times that, like E.F. Hutton, when he spoke I listened intently. So I don't know what the moral is but I do know that there are more than one view and some are based on rich personal experience. Thanks, Ed and RIP.
We, as a society, have come to regard the intelligent and educated Americans and professors as the enemy. That only serves those that find threats in those learned gentle folk. In the dark ages that group was the Inquisition and they burned every book they could lay their hands on and killed all the professors.(so did PolPot) Curious aside, when the dark ages ended and we had slid backwards for 500 years and lost the secrets to doing many things, the educated class, such as it was by then, understood that much of the western history and knowledge had been burned or otherwise lost. Our "smart guys" went to the only libraries(those cursed dens) known. The Arab ones in Baghdad. and Constantinople. See, those "A" Rabs have worshiped knowledge and
understanding since before the Dark Ages. Might have been a religious thing. dunno. In their
quest, the Arabs, they came to all the western libraries, before they were burned to the ground,
and hand copied(no xerox at the time) every blessed thing we had and it was a trove of
information. I would guess the Baghdad Library had a section marked "Western Europe" before
we called it that. Well, in this episode it was our scribes that went east and copied all our own
books for the Arabs had mastered our tongues and copied them in the original. Nice of them to
do that and then preserve it for us for 500 years. But of all the things we might think of that
would allow us to be less harsh with the Arabs it is firstly the Arabic Numerals. The second best thing was what we learned when we went back for our books. The Arabs, in their typical sharing fashion, told us that in our absence they had made a great invention. It was written "0" and pronounced "ZERO". How many did it represent was the question...none....what possible use could a numeral be that stands for "nothing".....watch, let me show ya'll". Cursed Humanities professors and their tales. We should send Baghdad a "thank you"...no wait, we just did that.
The other groups that seem offended by knowledge are Tyrants. Stalin, Hitler, Joe McCarthy, and on and on. Then there is the tyranny of the masses and that Mary Jane is why we live in a Republic. Democratic tho it may be the majority sometimes is prevented from ruling and that's a good thing like God not answering some payers as a gift to the person asking..
The definition of insanity, well one of them anyway, is "to keep doing the same thing over and over and insisting that there should be a different result than the one you always get".
We have to start getting out of our own way. Instead of "mom and Pop" Americans saying
something stupid such as we should "lock up all the druggies", why not legitimize humility and inform them that the only blessed thing they are qualified to request is to: Reduce the medical burden that drugs create. Reduce the number of addicts. Reduce the CRIME associated with drugs. Reduce the dollar cost we bear to deal with drugs. Reduce the number of deaths associated with drugs. And you get 4 years to show us what you can do and get us on track OR ELSE. On track is the salient task as nobody will ever straighten out this mess in 4 years and we will always need minor course corrections. But lets stop demonizing those that have a truly different and educated approach to our problems. Are we such ego maniacs as to think that solutions to complex problems are within our grasp? They aren't even within a President's grasp, as witnessed by Reagan's hapless decisions on the matter.
When RR took over, a scandalous affair came to his attention. Great Brittan was "passing out heroin" to addicts and actually teaching them to use the drug (safely). OMG, Nancy did you have any idea? Well, actually she wasn't any better informed on the topic than Ronnie given her solution was to "just say no".. RR first verified this "horror"with the "Iron Maiden" Margaret Thatcher. RR made her an offer she couldn't refuse and that was that he would not suspend the arms aid to Great Britain "if" she suspended that despicable drug distribution program thank you very much. She and Ronnie hadn't become fast friends up until that point but she idolized him there after. She also clipped the wings of the national drug addict program. That lasted a few years and she called RR on the matter and told him that the program was going to re-initiated and if cost them the aid, well then, so be it. She explained that great Britain had experienced many times increase in burglaries and assaults and other violent crime. Families were being abused and used by the addicts. Prisons were filling, Health costs associated with drug use had gone
thru the roof. Generally speaking society had been badly mauled by the suspension of treatment options. Also, there was a dramatic rise in the number of new addicts as the pushers had suffered a vast infusion of funds to support recruitment.. All in all it was setting them back more than the aid was worth. RR relented and did not cancel the aid when GB started their treatment program back up out of desperation. The thing about all this was the information that there were only two
professions that were prohibited from working while they were in the hereon program...Airline Pilot and Bus Driver. Got that? Only those two. Heroin, it turns out, is a very cheap drug bought legally. Taken in maint doasges it was not debiliting and the adicts were living normal lives, albeit medicated as out depression using people are except ours can and do fly airplanes. The addicts consumed .17 dollars worth a day on average...that was a long time ago and it must be up to a buck in today's inflated market. Our addicts need at least $500 per day so the pawn shops do really well and can be expected to resist legalization or treatment of drugies. This travesty will continue until this subject isn't a political issue and people trying to resolve it in the only humane manners available are called "lefties", "commies","socialist", "pinkos" and "liberals" and the worst of all "Do Gooders". Heck of a slam, that one, and Do Badders is the logical favored alternative.
A pharmacist told me that heroin is a superior pain killer than morphine and that the patients prefer it cause it has a "good feeling" associated with it and it is far less debilitating. Morphine has a downer like affect that is basically unpleasant but it reduces pain. This stuff is only given to terminal patients that are in the last days of their lives. These people are dying and we can't give them a kinder and gentler drug to ease their pain and allow them the faculty to realize where they are and to communicate with their family in their final hours. Shouldn't that action be left up to the Physician and the patient? Well, heXX no....not if we stop bearing down on crime.
So lets hear it....who is favor of bearing down on crime, cutting the budget and locking up more of those druggies. They gotta get the message sooner or later cause we aren't going to change out minds or wise up....right? Right folks?
Well obviously this took a turn but I think I am still within the bounds of staying on topic.
John the conservative
BK,
I'll see ya off topic about that Obama thingy. ;D You will like it as I will speak very little and mostly turn the podium over to you....kinda. ??? ::) ;D
How about a cruise to Cosumel...Is it safe there?
WE went there about a yr. ago. It was nice. My brother just got back from there, no problems.
Ruthi, I wasnt trying to make it political. There is plenty enough blame for keeping the drug war going, and both sides have stuck their hands in it deep. It was going on long before RMN, Mr. Peanut, RR, BC, GW, or any other POTUS in the last 50 odd years. Multi Billion dollar black Helicopter and surveilence aircraft projects, satelite and IR imagery technology, side scan sonar, FLIR, most all of it earmarked for the war on drugs, or which used funding for the WOD to finance it. Many good people from each side have been sucked into the vortex of this scam, and until we stop pointing fingers at each other, we'll never be able to sit down at a table and figure out how to turn it around.
But I have to say, our stupid drug problem is what has caused this situation in Mexico. Waving $Millions in front of desperately poor people tends to cause things like this. So just sitting back while Mexicans kill each other is pretty disengenuous IMHO. Legalizing it would put a stop to the bloodshed, almost overnight.
Art,
Well said. And legalization would be somthing we haven't tried so it would at least have a ....
Ruthi,
I don't even take the pain killers I have been given for injuries unless I am in agony. I don't like the stuff. I also don't advocate any illegal stuff and I never have. Legalization will have a high price but that price will be a pittance compared to what we have going on today. There are examples of the success of that theory and they aren't rare. England and Holland are just two. It saves lives and society.
We killed cigarettes and shine and over the counter opiates, and the original Coca Cola formula that contained cocaine....I swear to G..
John
I'm going to Tijuana again this Friday to collect some folk from the aeropuerto - using the Otay Mesa crossing is quicker (less slow?) and easier than Chula Vista, and I prefer going to TJ airport than to LAX. A year ago I had to collect relatives from Tijuana's Central Camionera - even that's better than most Greyhound bus stations! I feel safer in MX, even in border areas where the Narcos operate, than most inner-city areas in USA. (Compton or Watts, anyone?)
My gut feeling is that Mexico is still overall a safer country than here, not least of all because there isn't the deeply-ingrained gun culture there that is so pervasive here. I would prefer riding the Mexico City metro any day over the NY subway. Once you're away from the border zone, it's fine. Border areas, whether the NWFP in Pakistan, Landi Kotal on the Khyber pass, Kashmir in India, Nuristan in Afghanistan, or Kurdish eastern Turkey, are always more volatile than elsewhere, but that doesn't automatically make them too dangerous to ever visit. Besides, they're often the most interesting parts of a country.
Juano, con el camion Corona Super-Dos
JohnEd, That is probably the best read I have ever come across on the internet. I agree 100 1000 100000 x a billion with what you wrote. It is time we get the stair stepper drug that will make you try to fly off of the building stereotype out of drug abuse. Stop wasting money on something that has been ever increasing all of our entire lives.
Quote from: happycamperbrat on March 14, 2011, 11:03:07 AM
But I do agree, drugs are ruining America and Mexico in more then one way.
Drugs never have and never will ruin America, the War on Drugs is ruining America. And making us lots of nice friends in Mexico too, by the looks of it.
Quote from: artvonne on March 15, 2011, 01:26:00 PM
Quote from: happycamperbrat on March 14, 2011, 11:03:07 AM
But I do agree, drugs are ruining America and Mexico in more then one way.
Drugs never have and never will ruin America, the War on Drugs is ruining America. And making us lots of nice friends in Mexico too, by the looks of it.
I completely agree! And actually, that was what I meant. Without drugs, there would be no War on Drugs. But we have drugs and people are going to use and it costs lives not only because of drug abuse but because of the "war" over it all.
Quote from: Iceni John on March 15, 2011, 12:20:22 PM
I'm going to Tijuana again this Friday to collect some folk from the aeropuerto - using the Otay Mesa crossing is quicker (less slow?) and easier than Chula Vista, and I prefer going to TJ airport than to LAX. A year ago I had to collect relatives from Tijuana's Central Camionera - even that's better than most Greyhound bus stations! I feel safer in MX, even in border areas where the Narcos operate, than most inner-city areas in USA. (Compton or Watts, anyone?)
My gut feeling is that Mexico is still overall a safer country than here, not least of all because there isn't the deeply-ingrained gun culture there that is so pervasive here. I would prefer riding the Mexico City metro any day over the NY subway. Once you're away from the border zone, it's fine.
Juano, con el camion Corona Super-Dos
Couldn't agree more. 25 years ago when I started visiting Mexico it always felt safer than US cities and has continued to feel more "civilized'" than the states. Some may take exception to this, but I've kicked around a lot in North and Central America, and that's what I've found. I have also learnt that in general folks are quite ready to believe all sorts of negative things about "the unknown".
JohnEd and Art, I was just making an observation. I would not feel comfortable in Mexico in general now. I personally feel more secure in the states with our protections that we travel with than over there, and something does happen, no recourse. Thats just me. I do agree that it is the war that is the root of the problem. JohnEd, I am the same way, dont take any drugs, prescribed or not, not even aspirin.
We bussed to Mex for 2 weeks this winter. The only problem was the cops pulling you over and asking for a bribe. The locals say the drug guys have specific targets where as the army will shoot anyone. Don't pass the army on the hwy until they signal you to pass or they might shoot you. Anyway all went smooth this year.
The government of the great of Texas has recently inaugurated a new website dedicated to disclosing Texas' problems with the Mexican drug cartels.
http://www.protectyourtexasborder.com/ (http://www.protectyourtexasborder.com/)
Quote from: dougyes on March 15, 2011, 06:46:17 PM
We bussed to Mex for 2 weeks this winter. The only problem was the cops pulling you over and asking for a bribe. The locals say the drug guys have specific targets where as the army will shoot anyone. Don't pass the army on the hwy until they signal you to pass or they might shoot you. Anyway all went smooth this year.
Where did you cross the border? What was your route here in Mexico?
Thank you all,
I feel vindicated by your responses. And also that I am with "family" though it be roudy and discordent to some small degree. Butr, family none the less.
Ruthi,
No worries with me. I am not comfortable there....then or now. I used to go down for cheap and good lobster long ago but that was in groups. I feel deprived that the place is so dangerous(to me) and I can't enjoy it as the rich and thoroughly enjoyable culture that it certainly is. I feel vulnerable and exposed when I am down there jkust like you suggested you do and I sympathize with you. No worries.