A while back there was a push to post this king of info. It fell through for a number of reasons and liability might have been a biggie. Fairness didn't get all that much play but I think it was in a strong second place. We only get one side of these incedent reports and no matter how much we like the Knut, it remains...
The same can't be true for a good report. That is earned without question, and the report, if it has any detail, gives the grounds. I surely hope Mike will give this some thought. And, I hope you express you feelings on the matter to him and other moderators. We currently do this but it isn't located in a central and easily referenced sticky.
I would urge that these comments and recommendations do not include establishments where the poster's info is limited to service to Professional truckers and the like. I think what we have just seen with Jumpsuit is a prime example of misplaced confidence that is based on a history of legit quality service given a professional and potentially repeat customer. Isn't that the reason all of us all become repeat customers? It should carry more weight if the opinion were based on service to a fellow Knut.
The first salvo for me was the loose muffler and "we can't do anything more for you cause you engine is junk and beyond repair" (loose quote). That shop was firmly on my list before that service rep quit talking and he turned the Knut out into the unforgiving cold highway with callous disregard. In the absence of any contradicting info I would have put that place on the avoid at all costs list but, in fact, there was contradicting info and it came from highly reliable sources. The reason, as I saw it was that the sources that were so positive were professionals and have reps of their own with these shops. BK posted that he was so upset with the developments that he wouldn't use that shop ever again and his post had emotion and inner conflict dripping from every word. The ink wasn't dry on that post and I voiced my feeling that he should deal with the shop that have him the best service for the money and stood behind their work and that his confidence in that shop was warranted and justified. I hope he rethinks his decision. There are not just two sides to this saga but also two different categories of customer.
I have no doubt that some of the "old hands" and ex professionals have found ways to express their disappointment with the shop to people that have influence. I would attribute any good performance to those efforts alone or in part. Just a hunch.
So how about it? Can we have a sticky that relates shops that have given good/satisfactory service?
John
That is never going to work John there will always be some that has good experience with a shop and some have a bad experience with the same shop no need to start a contest if one ask then answer
That's like re comending a restaurant today only to have friends get bad food at the same place tommorrow.>>>Dan
Sounds like a witch hunt brewing..
I once drove 5 hours just to eat at an Italian buffet again that was incredible the first time I stumbled upon it. I couldn't get it out of my mind. It was heaven! I was in agony from eating so much. The second time after my 5 hour trip the food wasn't so good. Oh well. I've met women that were that way also!! Maybe we could start a post about women to avoid! ;D
Do ex-wives count?
Both You'ns guys. I wouldn't march into a shop with my wallet wide open based on one or two reports(unless it was from one of you) and I think any Knut would do the same. But as the Sticky lives a while a shop would accumulate comments Were I in BF Egypt and looking for a shop AND I found three in m y area and one had 5 reports and references and the others had a single each I would gravitate to the big number guy. I would also have names of Knuts that had that good experience and I could to speak to the "victim" in person. I would also verify with the board. I think that would get more peoples opinions on the table and available.
I would be wary of the shop with a compliment such as "I spent a month in that shop and it only cost me $6.000 and my bus didn't burn to the ground." The moderators would strike that compliment, I am sure.
UCJ.....it would be a recommendation based on personal experience and not any sort of warranty. Were it me that got the bad meal I would be sure to tell you about it only to allow you an opportunity to modify your recommendation, should that be warranted. You and yours been eating there once a week for the past 15 years, well then, I would chalk it up to chance.....three in a row might be something else like a change in owners. That exact same thing has happened to me as the recommending party and the new owners "recovered" from that excellent rep in a hurry.
It costs nothing and if it goes sideways Mike could scrub the thing. Lots of angles I am not aware of so I won't be heart broken..... :( :( :( ;D
Thanks for your comments, both of you. Your points are well taken.
John
Yes it is true Marc had a bad experience at 1 of the many Williams location. People and companies make mistakes it is only human nature. Marc has worked out terms with Wialliams to get him fixed up and on his way. They could have just as easy said No to any negotiations. Then what, tow it to another shop that could go and do the exact same thing. No matter what shop you go to there are mistakes made. At least at Williams they had another sister shop he could take it to and get some credit of what he had spent at the first shop. No other shop would have gave him a credit. From what I have seen the prices they are charging him for parts seem to be at their cost, 61 dollars for a fuel injector, 980 for a new head. Try and order those 2 parts for that price, not even on ebay! !Bottom line is Marc did the right thing kept his cool gave them the chance to make it right and has come out better than if he would have taken it to another shop!!! I will use Williams if needed but I will always ask if they have a experienced 2 stroke guy. I do think they should have paid the tow bill, But what is the difference if they pay the 900 tow bill and mark up the parts and labor 900.00. Or don't pay the tow bill and keep the cost of repair down. It is all depends on what Williams wants to do and how it is put on paper. Marc or anybody else is not going to get them to do more than they are willing to do. Now hopefully Marc will submit the tow bill to coachnet for some refund and hopefully they will step up to the plate and help him out on the tow bill, then Marc will be sitting good. this is why they dont want to have a spot for this topic. I don't think Marc was bad mouthing the shop but just letting us know of his situation. Then other posters start the bad mouthing of the shop and saying they will never go to the shop when in fact they had no experience with the shop.
Speaking of jerking chains. It would seem that this ideas time has not yet come. Oh well.
John beaten down and dejected :o ;D
Quote from: chart1 on March 06, 2011, 04:26:38 PM
Yes it is true Marc had a bad experience at 1 of the many Williams location. People and companies make mistakes it is only human nature. Marc has worked out terms with Wialliams to get him fixed up and on his way. They could have just as easy said No to any negotiations. Then what, tow it to another shop that could go and do the exact same thing. No matter what shop you go to there are mistakes made. At least at Williams they had another sister shop he could take it to and get some credit of what he had spent at the first shop. No other shop would have gave him a credit. From what I have seen the prices they are charging him for parts seem to be at their cost, 61 dollars for a fuel injector, 980 for a new head. Try and order those 2 parts for that price, not even on ebay! !Bottom line is Marc did the right thing kept his cool gave them the chance to make it right and has come out better than if he would have taken it to another shop!!! I will use Williams if needed but I will always ask if they have a experienced 2 stroke guy. I do think they should have paid the tow bill, But what is the difference if they pay the 900 tow bill and mark up the parts and labor 900.00. Or don't pay the tow bill and keep the cost of repair down. It is all depends on what Williams wants to do and how it is put on paper. Marc or anybody else is not going to get them to do more than they are willing to do. Now hopefully Marc will submit the tow bill to coachnet for some refund and hopefully they will step up to the plate and help him out on the tow bill, then Marc will be sitting good.
I thank you for that summary of why I wouldn't do business with that shop.
If I understand you correctly.....you would compliment the first shop because they did work of such quality that the Knut got acquainted with the second shop by necessity. The principle claim to fame for the second shop is that they refuse to pay for a tow that they determined to be needed and denied that fuel was in the oil to allow that refusal. This may be an isolated instance. These may all be a collection of events and actions that represent a coincidence. Could be!
This is done to death now so lets let it simmer on the back burner till the fat lady sings. (Oh crap, am I going to get raked over the "political correct" coals for insensitivity? Hope not.)
John
Here you go Scott...
(//)
John, I know you have never made a mistake. I don't agree the first shop did a quality job or any job at that. My whole point is that this is Marc's dealing with the shop that he patronized and came to the board for advice of what we all thought he should do next to not further damage his bus. Then like I said other posters started bashing Williams without ever even talking to Williams or even know the whole story. When Marc gets his bus back and gets the final bill I am sure we will hear his opinion. But he has done business with them personally and has the right to give his opinion, but I think all in all it will turn out a lot better than if he would have went in demanding things and lost his cool as some suggested he do.
Quote from: fe2_o3 on March 06, 2011, 04:58:57 PM
Here you go Scott...
(//)
:D :D LMAO!!! Doesn't say much for your vision however Cable!! Hopefully you went to your ex's wedding because she needed a date!!!
I think that a shop like Williams is just not the place for most of us. Their business is 90% commercial. They are dealing with customers who's attitude is "that truck or bus is costing me $1000.00 a day (or whatever the number is). Fix it, get it on the road. If it needs an engine, put in an engine. If it's not worth fixing, let's replace it". Band-aids are not economically feasible for those folks.
I can sense their attitude that an old two stroke bus is taking up valuable bay space that could be making real money. I also think that they should not take on the job in the first place if they are not willing to do it.
It's kind of like asking the contractor that builds high rises to build your house or the company that builds interstate highways to pave your driveway.
from Len,
I think that a shop like Williams is just not the place for most of us. Their business is 90% commercial. They are dealing with customers who's attitude is "that truck or bus is costing me $1000.00 a day (or whatever the number is). Fix it, get it on the road. If it needs an engine, put in an engine. If it's not worth fixing, let's replace it". Band-aids are not economically feasible for those folks.
That is well said and perfectly understandable.
I can sense their attitude that an old two stroke bus is taking up valuable bay space that could be making real money.
I recall that they spent a couple weeks on the old girl. They ordered parts by "non expedited" shipping. The shop was never full and the mechs weren't busy. In spite of their slack time they assigned a "rookie" mech and didn't supervise him. When he went back with problems they told him in their idle shop manner that his engine was a wreck and not repairable. I am with you on the part of "sensing their attitude".
I also think that they should not take on the job in the first place if they are not willing to do it.
Boy Howdy!
It's kind of like asking the contractor that builds high rises to build your house or the company that builds interstate highways to pave your driveway.
But if that megabuck contractor takes that piddling job he should do it right. I have a neighbor of sorts that is a general contractor. he recently built a spec house in an established neighborhood. A few doors down the street from his property was a somewhat weather worn house that seemed to be headed toward becoming a blight. Now this contractor had a vested interest in the "quality" of the neighborhood for his own interests so he asked around about the current owner. He learned that the guy was "old" and lame and had lived there since forever with his wife and she had passed a few years prior. The old man wasn't flush with cash by any observation. He approached the old owner with a proposition.... I will paint your house for the price of materials alone and I will quote that cost beforehand....no surprises. The old guy claimed to have barely that amt. but wanted to do what he could for the neighborhood but hadn't had the money to hire the job out. So my contractor added the job to his contract to paint his own house and got a really good deal for the add-on. Not free by any means but still a good deal. He passed his discount on the paint to the old man as a surprise bonus for being cooperative as if he hadn't done enuf. I asked if that job was going to last till he got his property sold and he was a little insulted. He said he did work for free with the same ethic as he did all the other and that was to exceed industry standard mins.... at least. I know some nice people and, remarkably, they don't consider themselves special. I have met a number of crooks that thought they were "Princes" at heart. Go figure.
John
I wish you had waited until my dealings with Williams were over and done with before birthing this thread. As I have said an more than one occasion, I am not writing the whole company off yet. Let's see how it all ends first.
Marc
The post didn't start off with any comment about your crew. It was supposed to be about positive experiences and shops you would sen a friend to based on data on hand. Never was intended to be an expose in any way negative. I understand that carping about service and attitude isn't going to work. It did evolve due to Charts post bringing up W and while that is understandable, it was still off the mark(pun intended) Marc. I thought about calling him on it and asking that he delete the post but went with the flow, AGAIN, instead of risking. Didn't do me much good, now did it?
Then Chart took it in a personal direction with "John, I know you have never made a mistake..." and so it went. We went from what happened, who did it and what the fix might be, straight into "why" and personality. Bad evolution and I hope that stuff ios short lived. I am not angry about this but I don't want to go there right here and now. Call me....please.
JSM,
Had I even a wisp of your desire to truncate this subject or delay any comment I would have been happy to accommodate you in any way possible. Please understand that you and your current experience were at the furthest point in the spectrum away from the subject of my initial post. You weren't on my mind when I birthed this thread. Really, you weren't. I thought I had terminated it when I said that it was a subject whose "time had not yet come" and that was before you or your experience was brought up AGAIN. I wish you had asked on March sixth when Chart posted and I would have asked the moderators to remove it. While I think it late to do so I will ask them to do so now....for you.
John
MODERATORS
Can this, my thread, be removed from the board till JSM has come to closure with his shop? This is at his request and I strongly encourage you to accommodate him/me.
Thank you,
JohnEd
Hi John, and others.
As stated earlier, this kind of thread will always end up in trouble. So, we choose to Not do it.
There is a very good web site that customers rate RV service shops and I think it is very good.
Luke at US Coach and many others are listed in there. You can also start a rating yourself.
It's link is in our Tech Archives section under Favotites. It's called RV Service Views.
http://rvservicereviews.com/ (http://rvservicereviews.com/)
Good Luck
Nick-
Nick,
Your reference seems to do it all. Obviously I wasn't aware of it. ???
No fair. You can't kill it I already did that ....sorta. ;)
Thanks and Sorry!
John
EVERYBODY! Go to the site that Nick recommended... http://rvservicereviews.com/ (http://rvservicereviews.com/)
That site is exactly what I was try to start here except that is also includes WARNINGS about unsavory shops. Curiously, WW Williams Atlanta gets "excellent" comments from RV'ers for Gas and diesel rigs and also work on auto trans. Then again JSM has the problem with the first shop that fouled the water.....thru no fault of his own, I assume. Check out that site and book ark it.
Nick really came thru.
John
Yes, the folks in Atlanta have been professional and have kept me abreast of everything they have been doing. I think it was boxarOkie who also had a good experience with Williams in Atlanta.
Basically from what I have gathered, taking something to Williams is like taking your car to the dealership for service. They will only use factory OEM parts and their labor rate is higher because of all the overhead. The upshot being that they are known for doing everything correctly and "by the book."
Can I afford to have them do all my work from now on? NO! LOL.
Quote from: luvrbus on March 06, 2011, 03:25:31 PM
That is never going to work John there will always be some that has good experience with a shop and some have a bad experience with the same shop no need to start a contest if one ask then answer
Ahem! http://rvservicereviews.com/ (http://rvservicereviews.com/)
If you weren't so consistently correct, intuitive and resourceful this "event" wouldn't be such an occasion. Love you Clifford. We all do.
John