Hello I am getting ready to run my gas plumbing. I am going propane and am planning to use 2 of the smaller grille size tanks so i can exchange them easily. My question is can standard grille bottles be used laying them down flat instead of in the up right position or with the new safety valves is that even possible?? ??? Any help?
THANKS Billy
No, you cannot lay standard grill bottles on their sides.
You can get different valves that have the internals for horizontal service but the tank must have framing on it so it can only be installed in the horizontal. I suggest you get the 7 gal tanks and stand them up as per normal. Messing with these things can get spendy and dangerous.
Are you using "black iron" steel gas pipe? Get the liquid pipe dope and don't use the Teflon tape. All will screw together easily and seal well.
From the gas manifold run single service to each appliance and use only double flare fittings on copper tubing. Run a large loop at the appliance connection so you can disconnect it and easily move the line aside and it makes reconnecting easy. I cut everything neat like the electrician I am and I screwed up and had to redo a couple lines and should redo all of them.
Refer, furnace, stove, oven HW heater and outside hook-up for the grill and radiant heater. That's six lines from the manifold. The manifold in my RV runs down the center of the floor underneath and has a "T" fitting with reducers for every run/appliance. Just my thoughts and I don't intend to talk down or anything.
John
Can't you use the type of tanks they use on froklifts. They probably have a different valve thou but the do lay horizontal..
not sure but forklift may run on liquid...rv appliances run on vapor.
What Thomas said. BUT, you can get a different output assy that has a shorter outlet pickup that only gets gas. The propane guys have catalogs of this stuff but they can just as easily replace the tubes inside. Used Propane stuff seems to be cheap but the new parts are spendy and only available from ??????
I lucked out and was able to get a used take out horizontal tank from a wrecking yard in Fla. Whichever tank or tanks you do use I would not use copper takeoffs to the appliances on a moving vehicle. even with a loop they can vibrate and chafe. get rubber jacketed propane lines. well worth the extra expense.
How about using Pancake tanks? They don't hold much but they are good for small spaces. FWIW. M&C ;D
People, please. This is not a place to "try to make do". There are places out there that sell used RV tanks, or even buy them new. I'm not flush with money (got "retired early" when they decided to let everybody over 50 go) but one way or the other, I"ll have a RV rated, horizontal propane tank (checked over by the local propane place) in my bus. And it will have a solid, dependable mounting and correct gas feed lines, too. Life is too short to lose a big investment or to even to shorten it.
And besides the safety aspect, I really don't want to be filling and changing tanks all the time. This hobby is supposed to be fun.
DMoe,
I tend to agree with you at first blush. "BUT" my old Winnie has copper run to everything except the tanks themselves and it has the loops I mentioned to relieve stress and facilitate removal and service. I think they get away with using it at the tank cause the tanks must be well vented to the outside and a leak would not be the lead pipe cinch of disaster if it leaked. Before I installed anything related to propane I would establish that my install met the guidelines/regs/spec. I have flex gas lines in my home that feed the stove and fireplace. Both are corrugated metal and I think they are copper but may be aluminum. I think that the rubber lines that you are referring to are legit for apps other than permanent/fixed home/residential appliances. All the plumbing and brake lines on my old girl have been replaced due to cracking and rot. I read once that something like 95% of the RVs "die" from fire caused by electrical or propane issues. You don't typically get a second chance with gas whether it blows up or not.
My runs in my S&S are all 6 or 7 feet and in every case 4 of those feet are outside and in the elements under the coach. The central feed line or trunk or manifold is 3/4 "black iron" gas pipe and all the lines connect to it for the shortest copper tubing run to the appliance. They went to a lot of trouble. I think that it behooves all to verify what the current regs are. One that seems to get ignored is that the gas overfill relief has to be plumbed to the rear of the coach and vented at least 6 feet from the ground. And I have never seen that done but I understand the reasoning and would do so myself.
Hope the discussion helps,
John
John
QuoteOne that seems to get ignored is that the gas overfill relief has to be plumbed to the rear of the coach and vented at least 6 feet from the ground. And I have never seen that done but I understand the reasoning and would do so myself.
WOW I finally get to say "RIGHT ON JOHN-ED" !!
It's a DOT rule that has it's origins with propane powered vehicles. I'm probably one of the now two people who even remembers it, let alone has ever implemented it!
I wish everyone would. I once got to see a video of a guy in a pickup who's overpressure vent failed and caught fire- he just stayed on the freeway until the tank froze up.
From that video you instantly see why this is a good idea...the fire plume went up into the sky- nobody behind him got toasted and he didn't burn up either.
Here, you can see one of those vents.. on my Crown of course... a little cork covers the pipe to keep bugs and rain out...(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heartmagic.com%2FIMAG0097.jpg&hash=8d29ae51043a4d6ec650e51d0bc31d7d31849885)
Man, looks like I'm in need of a paint job!!! :)
Quote from: Fred Mc on March 02, 2011, 09:09:48 PM
Can't you use the type of tanks they use on froklifts. They probably have a different valve thou but the do lay horizontal..
Forklift tanks have a pickup to tube that runs to one side of the bottom of the tank so liquid propane is supplied with the tank upright or on its side. Some forklift tanks also have a vapor supply valve so you could run vapor and liquid from the same tank. These tanks are available in various sizes but 6 and 8 gallon are the most common.
Check out Manchester Tank. Good Luck, TomC
Boogie Meister,
Great to hear from you. The other thing I figured out from that reg was that mounting it high, I think 6 foot was the min, allowed the vapors to disperse and reduced the chance that they would puddle. I have had two of those relief valves fail over the years and I lost 7 gallons in a couple days in each instance. You gotta cycle those valves every time you fill a tank and flexing that often exceeds their life span of 20 years or so. :P Whatever!
Meister I have known for quite a while that you were a multifaceted techie. Welding, electric, mechanical, lighting, etc. etc. The list goes on. And from the pics I saw a while back your lady is a knockout and a help mate. You certainly have talent and evidently a lot of luck as well.
Here is the point of all this and I want the board to hear it. We all like and admire exceptional people, right gang? A long long while ago you sent me some CDs of music you made and recorded. The art work on the packaging was really high quality so the first impression was good. I have a great reluctance to read what others have written in the way of books or have created as music. I don't understand this behavior of mine. I am not jealous. Maybe I am afraid of being disappointed....who knows. But, I kept your CDs on the shelf for these past years and looked at them at least weekly but no play. So a few weeks ago I cracked open one of the discs. I think the music falls into the category of "new Age" but I am not certain. I was mesmerized. Wifey came home and she really can't listen to anything but classical and its like she is allergic or something. I got up to kill the sound but she said "no, leave that on". I did and we both listened to the entire disc. I mentioned that I was impressed that you had that many talented musicians as collaborators. She had been reading the packaging and mentioned that there were no musicians listed or other credits for sound techs and that that was very unusual. I told her that it might be possible that you had synthesized all the various sounds and mixed the thing yourself but that that would take a giant heap of talent not only as a musician but as a sound tech. Not that it matters as either way I haven't heard anything that impressive since I was a teenager. That makes no difference as either way the music is truly great and should be a commercial success. "Fairy Nightsongs" absolutely blew me away. There must be more than one of you or you are a renaissance man . I hope others here can get copies of your work.
Thank you very much for your gift and talent. It is treasured by us.
This may not be bus talk but it certainly is about a Knut that has contributed in a lot of subjects and deserves recognition for all of it.
John
Thanks to everyone for all the helpful information. The reason for the smaller grille tanks is that it is such a hassle to find anyone around here to fill an RV tank. Last time had to drive 30 minutes one way (the wrong way) to the closest place to us to top off the tank in our old bus, that was about a year ago and they still charged me almost $4.00 a gallon! Thought this route might be easier less hassle since were not full timers usually just out for a week or so at a time and mostly fair weather goer's. Just thought if I could lay them down would fit in an otherwise wasted space (not tall enough to stand up in that specific area) Oh well no biggie... Plenty of other places... :)
Thanks again Billy
Bruce,
You may sing a different song when your permanent tank is low and you've hunted around in vain for an LP fill station that you can get into with a bus. I've been there.
I had enough and took out my permanent tank and replaced it with two 20 lb (about 5 gl) bottles using an RV mount designed for travel trailers. Nothing unsafe or "make do" about those and they are new, inexpensive, easy to carry and easy to remove and get refilled just about anywhere. I also know exactly when half my LP is used.
I'm about to make the same change on my new (to me) 4107 which has an ancient permanent tank of unknown vintage. My LP guy is not too happy about refilling it and I'm not going to push my luck. I plan to use two slightly larger 30 lb tanks since these bays are taller than the old ones.
When I finish this mod these two tanks are free to anyone who wants them. The old ten gallon one is available right now, the new one I need to empty first.
I use 2 40# manchester tanks i bought from Lowes and an auto switching valve. they are large enough they don't require filling extremely often, yet still small enough that I can handle them to get filled without having to move the bus.