Who would be the best source for metal building components to build a 40'x50' bus barn/shop? I can raise and bolt beams and panels together myself. I can form the slab and hire a finishing crew to pour. These buildings look easy to to assemble, and my city permit will require an engineered building, so where all should I start looking for materials?
I've got a request at www.metaldepots.com (http://www.metaldepots.com) for info but have not heard back yet. That is my first attempt.
David
It's none of my business, but if you have a 45 ft bus, it would behoove you to add about 30 ft to the length of your structure if you have the funds. In the end you will be glad that you did.
BCO
David check with Impact in your area( San Antiono) 888-442-4140 I bought my 40x60 every nut, bolt,plans for my area 2 -14ft roll up doors, 1-side door,6 skylights, insulation package and instructions for less than 13,000 delivered to AZ
good luck
Thanks, Clifford. I'll give them a call and request a quote.
David
You might want to give serious consideration to adding a pit in your new barn. It is much easier and less expensive when doing the slab than later on.
Not sure if you have to have an all steel building or not. I built an all steel 40X60 building with a raised center section of the roof and extended it out the front for a porch for our home. Few years later built a 44X80 stick frame ( stud wall) building with steel exterior sheeting. After doing both styles I would have framed my home from wood. Steel is not very forgiving and took some fairly serious equipment to set the A frames and handle the 20' Z channels. BUT I have an awesome free span in the steel building. Just my experience.
Bill in KS
Your best option is to check locally. Some of the least costly buildings are called pole buildings where they erect poles in the ground as the main structures. But you'll do much better seeing what the locals do...
Dave,
Here are two links for steel building companies that are not afraid to share prices online w/you. One of the two even has software(free download) so you can design your own and get an instant quote. At least you would have something to compare if you want to price locally.
http://www.priceabuilding.com/ (http://www.priceabuilding.com/)
http://metalbuildingdepot.com/ (http://metalbuildingdepot.com/)
I am working on designing my 3rd steel house to build next summer (if I can sell the one I am in before then!). I am a big fan of steel, as it is normally straight and square, unlike every wood home I have ever owned including new ones. Steel also holds up a bit better to hurricanes. Wood is not bad, just not my choice.
Steve Toomey
PAbusnut
David, I used a firm called Miracle Steel and it was a wonderful experience. They used 4 piece fabricated beams. Easy to assemble and not too bad to lift into place.
Only problem is they went out of business.
My main reason for posting is to let you know that the engineering design and plans are for the building only. You will almost certainly have to have the concrete "foundation" (footings for the beams) designed by a local firm. Those designs will be a function of your soil conditions, wind load design criteria set by the county and other factors. Not a huge deal, but it will be a separate engineering design.
As far as a pit is concerned, my understanding is that very few local codes permit this kind of design anymore. It would be neat, but you need to check your local building folks.
Jim
David, it will cost you around 800 bucks for the foundation plans you have to have a soils report for your area that's 1 engineer then a structural engineer that's 2 engineers that is why the pole barns are so popular and then you come back and do the concrete floor and nothing is ever said
good luck
Quote from: boxcarOkie on February 28, 2011, 01:10:52 PM
It's none of my business, but if you have a 45 ft bus, it would behoove you to add about 30 ft to the length of your structure if you have the funds. In the end you will be glad that you did.
BCO
I agree with Boxcar. I could not make my barn any longer than 44 feet for a 40 foot bus. It works but I would rather have more spce.
[/quote]
I agree with Boxcar. I could not make my barn any longer than 44 feet for a 40 foot bus. It works but I would rather have more spce.
[/quote]
Now that we are into this trailer thing, I seem to be cramped (at 70ft) and either have to step over the tongue of the trailer or walk around the back of it, in order to get to the other side. When you find yourself constantly hiking around something 60+ ft long, it can make for a long day.
On the pit, it was my understanding it was possible, but it jacked up the insurance to the point where it wasn't feasible.
BCO
Best answers already given, but...have you considered what or who may be living in and using your planned bus barn years in the future? How about creating resale value from...the ground up. :)
How about planning it big enough to contain a complete 18 wheeler with lots of ceiling room sosss someone can climb up on top of the trailer? What about heating and ventilation....or even A/C?
A full length pit is also a great idea. Also need lots of side and end space for all the automotive toys one is bound to accululate over the years. Three phase 240? Thick slab? Insulation?
It's real easy to get carried away $totally$....just in the planning stage. Finally, how will it complement the home and acreage as an overall plan? How much do you need? How much do you want? HB of CJ (old coot)
I guarantee you when I slab mine it will have a full length pit. I can't fit my fat arse under the bus as it is ;D
Pits are not for everyone about the only thing you can do in one is a grease job and a oil change along with a few air leaks waste of floor space and to much liability for me JMW and insurance is almost double on a building with one if the carrier knows about it lol you should see the steel and concrete that goes into a pit at Wal/Mart about a 1/3 of the size for cars 8 inch walls setting on a 1 ft thick foundation and double the rebar with a 6x6 I beam around the outside at the top poured into concrete 5000 psi concrete also pretty pricey to say the least no way would I get into one built with blocks with a bus sitting on top
good luck
I plan to build a removable ramp in my shop, rather than a pit. I figure 2 feet of clearance will be easy enough using rail road ties or similar, and pretty useful. And I can take it apart again if no longer needed, with appropriate power tools of course... :)
My big thing is to be able to measure the rear brake slack adjustment without having to take the rear wheels off. I figure I may have to build a hot-wheels creeper!
Brian
When I built my shop, the pit was an additional $3000.00. It was only 24 feet long so I could only work on one end at a time.
I checked one of my Wal/Mart job records would you believe 97 dollars a sq ft 8 years ago probably well over a 100 now
good luck
I like Clifford's Pole Bldg. solution. Also consider making that pole bldg with 6 X 6 "poles". I have a friend back in Pa. that did that. He paid a crew to come in and erect the bldg then he installed 6 inches of foam board and wrapped the bld in plastic then put up alu siding. His ceiling is dropped to the eve height and he has 4 feet or so of glass piled into that ceiling. His roll-up door is 3 or 4 inches thick and is specked for North Dakota. In the summer around noon and after sitting over night with out anybody in it or having any doors opened you get a serious chill when you go in. Now that is insulation performance. He has not a single window or skylight and it is 40 X 60. He had the pole bld inspected after it was built with a county permit and a couple months later started on the concrete and finish work. Took him a couple weeks but he is spry or was then. I think he built a very large thermos bottle. ;D
John
Quote from: luvrbus on February 28, 2011, 01:18:37 PM
David check with Impact in your area( San Antiono) 888-442-4140 I bought my 40x60 every nut, bolt,plans for my area 2 -14ft roll up doors, 1-side door,6 skylights, insulation package and instructions for less than 13,000 delivered to AZ
good luck
They have gone up a few dollars. I got quotes from Mueller, Impact, and MetalDepots.com for a 30x50x16 with one 12x14 door, one 10x10 door, one 3'0"x7'0" entry door, 4 windows, no insulation for just under $17k (no slab) That is for the kit only with my installation. Yes, I have to get an engineered slab. I'm in the city. All 3 quotes were within $200. That almost sounds like collusion.
I'd like it bigger, but the annual taxes on this rascal will be about 3% based on an appraisal district rate at about $20 per sq ft. That will be 20x1500x.03= $900 year I hope the bus is out of the building on the road more than inside, but I have always wanted a small woodshop. :P
I'd almost rather spend $900 on fuel.
One word of advice I can offer is go ahead and spring for a 14X14 door! The extra 2 feet is worth it !
We didn't realize how much we loved them until we moved into our new shop and went from 14X14 to 14X12!
It sure was nice to have the extra 2 feet especially when backing in on a super bright day or rainy night and it's hard to see inside the building in the mirrors! JMHO!
;D BK ;D
14x14 are nice that is what I wanted but the powers that be here would only let me have 12 wide
good luck
"the powers that be here would only let me have 12 wide" ??? ??? ??? And that would be...your wife? Heck. she let you have a heliocopter. ;D
Sighed anonymous
I did a Quonset hut type 25'X40' with a 15' pit turn key 6" slab for about 11,000. Indeed 5 more ft. would have been better for a 4106 but it served its purpose. Don't let anyone talk you out of a pit. What ever it cost it will be ten times more The building was galvanized built to with stand 125 mph winds. think about it.
Yeah Clifford I know what ya mean. I had 12X12 in my first shop, and then got spoiled to a bigger shop that was 150X75 and had 2-18X20's across from each other and 1- 18X18 on one end.
Then we moved out into the country where we had the 60X40 with 2-14X14 side by side and a pit on one side!
I do miss both the 14X14's and the pit! I'm going to be putting my pit in the lean-to side as soon as I have the $ & the time together! (seems like I either have one or the other or neither!)
;D BK ;D
Tony & I were typing at the same time and I agree no matter how little you use it. You will absolutely the pit.
Shoot we used to even use the one in UC as a storm shelter when the tornado warning were out!
Felt purty dang good to be in that pit with flash lights, deck of cards, a cooler of water and some PB crackers with a bus parked over it knowing that there was a tornado coming through.
;D BK ;D
Its the water part that is hard to swallow(pun intended). ;D And just what the heck is a PB cracker? Is that like a 'Bamma Cracker?". Why do they all talk so funny? (spoken in New York City;D)
John
Quote from: JohnEd on March 02, 2011, 10:18:58 PM
Its the water part that is hard to swallow(pun intended). ;D And just what the heck is a PB cracker? Is that like a 'Bamma Cracker?". Why do they all talk so funny? (spoken in New York City;D)
John
Peanut Butter! (I thought every body knew what PB or PB&J were!)
;D BK ;D
The powers that be would be is Mohave County AZ bunch of jerks John Ed,my building is rated for 125 mph winds that is why they wanted the narrow doors,David those building have gone way up in 6 years wow hard to believe the increase in price
good luck
Didn't occur to me at the time. Now PB&J, that is one that wouldn't get past me. At least not till I get a little older. :P
Now, just what did "water" stand for? ???
This post is getting saturated with wit. That or sum'n. (sarcasm) water & saturated= segue wit. ;D
John
Ooooooowww, Clifford. I'll put my city bld and construction inspectors up against your any time. I'll put $10 on my team winning hands down and I will let YOU be the only judge.
I had my go around with building spec when I was working for the Navy. I built a 80 foot tall radio transmitting antenna way out in a field overlooking the sea cliffs and it had to withstand 140 mph winds. When was the last time you heard of anything like that hitting S. Kalifornia? None the less. Actually, considering that the thing was on USMC land they handled everything like that for me and kept me advised. Absolutely the finest group of people I have ever had the personal pleasure to work with or even have heard of. "When it absolutely, positively MUST be destroyed over night.....USMC".
Door size and wind speed? Are they looking at the wind hitting the open door and "blowing up" the entire building? I find it hard to believe that there are no doors that would not stand that wind load. I find it easy to believe that the County engineers would not know about it or deny their existence. Sorry for your burden, Clifford.
John
Or build it dirt cheap http://annesley.wordpress.com/earthbag-building-photo-blog/ (http://annesley.wordpress.com/earthbag-building-photo-blog/)
How about stick framing. I have about 250 eighteen foot 2x6 boards I just pulled out of a building demo. I can make the 16' walls, order some engineered wood trusses from Timbertek and have a frame to put the metal on. I don't think our city requires engineered specs on a wood building done for private use. I am a bit hesitant to have such a tall building with only 4 walls (one side nearly all doors) and no interior walls. You think it would blow away like a kite?
David
Laminate the boards and you would have 4 X 6 X 18 and that is bigger than the 4 X 4 that I usually see. Glue and screw and the pole will be stronger than a solid single board of the same dimension. Put the poles in with the 6 inch surface perpendicular to the wall so you can get 6 inches of insulation.
The areas with doors are overbuilt and have braces integrated into the wall. I think you are all right. Building permit shop will answer that question...point blank.
HTH,
John
sketchup drawing 30x50x16
sketchup 40x50x16
Try 64 Metals. Good looking buildings, similar to Morton Buildings.
Fred
My buildings are stick-built, 2 by 6 16 foot walls, engineered trusses. The big one is 65 feet wide, clear span, 55 feet deep. This is in Nova Scotia where they do get hurricanes every couple of years.
Brian
Quote from: Pete359EX on March 06, 2011, 04:37:08 AM
Try 64 Metals. Good looking buildings, similar to Morton Buildings.
Fred
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi582.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss263%2Fboxcarokie%2FDSC00518-1.jpg&hash=0b73aa9058ccb12f1d8eafe5315d228ac8fddbe0)
Our shop is a Morton Building, it is called a Country Classic, nice buildings. We call it the "Eagles Nest" not to be confused with the Bus Club.
BCO
Guys, The only thing I see wrong is this. It's only built for one coach! We might need a place to hang out from time to time! ::) I'm a bit envious, can't ya tell! ;)
That is the reasoning behind the design Paul lol
I have a 16' x 24' door and wish it was 6 foot wider! Of course I'm also bringing stuff into the shop that resemble a 35' bus sideways!!
There was mention of re-sale earlier in the thread.
The large garage is actually a real estate agent's nightmare.
Slims down the potential purchasers by a lot.
And if you install a door shorter than a full height highway tractor...
You destroyed another big part of what's left of that slim market of potential purchasers.
Make your doors taller than 13' 6".
Also, you want two light switches at the door, one for the big lights, one for a single at each end just so you can see well enough to move around.
Mine came from the previous owner with these lovely monster streetlights hanging from the ceiling, with the white steel panels on the walls, it's like daylight in there, but they take longer to warm up than the time to walk to the other end and back to find what I want.
Two single fluorescent fixtures, mounted up high, one at each end, will save the big lights for when I need them.
I have been a fan of pits in the past, but I'm wavering in favor of a set of used mobile lifts. Old ones get traded in to the suppliers all the time. With a pit, the code issues, the insurance issues, the practical ventilation and drainage requirements, the danger of stepping of the edge and falling into the #$#$^ thing, which happens periodically at work, I'll tell you, it can be a game ender for your mobility, the safety of children around the pit, the loss of clear floor space for other uses...
And, you can use the lifts for your smaller vehicles too!
The pit is simple, once installed, and the coach is parked right there ready to walk under at your leisure, but?
As I say, I'm wavering.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
BW,
No worries on falling in the pit if ya park the bus over it with a sheet of 3/4" plywood over the exposed ends.
And if yer not home and the garage gets broke into the culprit may still be laying in the bit with a broken neck when ya get home!
See win-win situation!
;D BK ;D
Quote from: buswarrior on March 06, 2011, 09:01:01 AM
There was mention of re-sale earlier in the thread.
The large garage is actually a real estate agent's nightmare.
Slims down the potential purchasers by a lot.
And if you install a door shorter than a full height highway tractor...
You destroyed another big part of what's left of that slim market of potential purchasers.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I've actually thought of that. This could actually be like a property having a swimming pool. It does limit the resale applicant pool, somewhat. It sure won't be attractive to the Mrs. potential buyer, but the Tim Allen type would love it.
David
I wish I could build any sort of bus garage on my lot. I wanted to move further out so as to have more room for a bus garage, but I have a very nice house now and with gas prices I really don't want to double my commute. (Gas prices may go down again, but we know they are going to go up long term.)
I looked into the whole accessory building thing recently. A few years back the city went from 1500 square feet down to 750 square feet for accessory buildings on lots under an acre. Not only is the limit 750 sq ft, but you are also limited to 80% of the foundation area of the house and your garage counts towards the 750 sq ft. I have a 600 sq ft attached garage so I can basically build a small shed.
But, I have two lots back to back. I thought well I can build a 750 sq ft accessory structure on the back lot. No can do as the city says there has to be a house present or under construction before an accessory structure can be built. I wanted to do a 14 ft wide by 50 foot long garage. The 14 ft width is limiting, but it is all I can have within 750 sq ft. The worse issue is a 10 foot limit on sidewall height. Obviously I can't get a 12' 9" vehicle into a building with a 10 foot ceiling.
No, I can't get a variance. The courts in the state of Minnesota have severely limited the ability of cities and counties to issue variances. Cities are reluctant to give out any variances right now in fear they will get sued.
My lot is 55 feet wide and 288 feet deep. The design of the lot is such that a bus garage on the rear of the lot won't bother the neighbors as there are no adjacent houses back there and lots of trees. Unfortunately, unless city code changes there will never be a bus garage back there.
Here is one I have been looking at http://www.mohawklifts.com/wp/consumer/browse-lifts/4-post-lifts/tr33-4-post-lifts/ (http://www.mohawklifts.com/wp/consumer/browse-lifts/4-post-lifts/tr33-4-post-lifts/) but I seen one at my local charter bus company that you roll 4 independant wheel lifts in and they all raise and lower together. http://www.mohawklifts.com/wp/consumer/browse-lifts/mobile-column-lifts/mp_series/ (http://www.mohawklifts.com/wp/consumer/browse-lifts/mobile-column-lifts/mp_series/)
Quote from: buswarrior on March 06, 2011, 09:01:01 AM
There was mention of re-sale earlier in the thread.
The large garage is actually a real estate agent's nightmare.
Slims down the potential purchasers by a lot.
And if you install a door shorter than a full height highway tractor...
You destroyed another big part of what's left of that slim market of potential purchasers.
Make your doors taller than 13' 6".
Also, you want two light switches at the door, one for the big lights, one for a single at each end just so you can see well enough to move around.
Here is one I have been looking at http://www.mohawklifts.com/wp/consumer/browse-lifts/4-post-lifts/tr33-4-post-lifts/ (http://www.mohawklifts.com/wp/consumer/browse-lifts/4-post-lifts/tr33-4-post-lifts/) but I seen one at my local charter bus company that you roll 4 independant whell lifts in and they all raise and lower together. Haaven't found them online yet.
Mine came from the previous owner with these lovely monster streetlights hanging from the ceiling, with the white steel panels on the walls, it's like daylight in there, but they take longer to warm up than the time to walk to the other end and back to find what I want.
Two single fluorescent fixtures, mounted up high, one at each end, will save the big lights for when I need them.
I have been a fan of pits in the past, but I'm wavering in favor of a set of used mobile lifts. Old ones get traded in to the suppliers all the time. With a pit, the code issues, the insurance issues, the practical ventilation and drainage requirements, the danger of stepping of the edge and falling into the #$#$^ thing, which happens periodically at work, I'll tell you, it can be a game ender for your mobility, the safety of children around the pit, the loss of clear floor space for other uses...
And, you can use the lifts for your smaller vehicles too!
The pit is simple, once installed, and the coach is parked right there ready to walk under at your leisure, but?
As I say, I'm wavering.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
2 problems with lifts. 1) you have to have taller ceilings to have room to raise a bus. 2) if they fail (and they do sometimes) then yer bus is gonna fall! (let's pray nobody is under it when it does!)
;D BK ;D
When I go to my brother's house in Idaho he has a drainage ditch in front. I park there. It is really cool too because it is just sloped on the sides and about 3 or 3 1/2 feet deep at the deepest part. I can get under the bus very easily and see everything and the ground is packed really hard around it. Seems like a real safe sit down type pit. One of the posters here, I forget who now, said they made a sit down pit in their barn. Something like this would seem to me to be a lot safer then a full standing pit.
Hey Buswarrior, when we built our shop, we built it for "US" with absolutely no consideration for what it would be worth later on. It really doesn't matter to me what a real estate agent will get for it, I am going to be long gone at that time.
The singing, the crying, the hand wringing will be over with.
Building a shop, no matter what size or construction, is going to be an investment. It is good to have all your ducks in a row, before entering into it. I agree with almost everything that you say, don't get me wrong, I just feel it (future value) is not all that important in the scheme of things.
As for a pit? I wanted a pit but the insurance problems associated with it, kind of canceled it out. I bought some 30ton jacks and have an air compressor and for now, that will have to work.
It is good to have a shop and be able to slink away and do the things a guy likes to do. I love that aspect of it.
The absolute shame of it all is the control local authorities and municipalities have over you when you go to build it ON YOUR LAND that part of it really sucks. You pay the taxes, you maintain it, you take care of it .... but you have little say so when it comes to improving it or bringing it around to your standard of living.
I am not crazy about that. Have a good week, stay warm.
BCO
Quote from: belfert on March 06, 2011, 07:42:20 PM
I wish I could build any sort of bus garage on my lot. I wanted to move further out so as to have more room for a bus garage, but I have a very nice house now and with gas prices I really don't want to double my commute. (Gas prices may go down again, but we know they are going to go up long term.)
I looked into the whole accessory building thing recently. A few years back the city went from 1500 square feet down to 750 square feet for accessory buildings on lots under an acre. Not only is the limit 750 sq ft, but you are also limited to 80% of the foundation area of the house and your garage counts towards the 750 sq ft. I have a 600 sq ft attached garage so I can basically build a small shed.
But, I have two lots back to back. I thought well I can build a 750 sq ft accessory structure on the back lot. No can do as the city says there has to be a house present or under construction before an accessory structure can be built. I wanted to do a 14 ft wide by 50 foot long garage. The 14 ft width is limiting, but it is all I can have within 750 sq ft. The worse issue is a 10 foot limit on sidewall height. Obviously I can't get a 12' 9" vehicle into a building with a 10 foot ceiling.
No, I can't get a variance. The courts in the state of Minnesota have severely limited the ability of cities and counties to issue variances. Cities are reluctant to give out any variances right now in fear they will get sued.
My lot is 55 feet wide and 288 feet deep. The design of the lot is such that a bus garage on the rear of the lot won't bother the neighbors as there are no adjacent houses back there and lots of trees. Unfortunately, unless city code changes there will never be a bus garage back there.
Why don't you just build a house on the other lot? One with a very big front door and open floor plan ;)
Quote from: Len
Why don't you just build a house on the other lot? One with a very big front door and open floor plan ;)
That is exactly what I was going to suggest a very tall house that from the outside looks like a two story house.
And on the inside looks like a very OPEN floor plan with no upper floor! (Or really fool the bastards and put a ledge/walkway/storage way around the 3 sides that don't have the "big" door so every now and then you can go "upstairs and wave out the windows at the "nosy lookie loo's" ;)
;D BK ;D
Quote from: Len Silva on March 07, 2011, 04:57:09 AM
Why don't you just build a house on the other lot? One with a very big front door and open floor plan ;)
I'll let you propose that to the city on my behalf. I don't want to get laughed out of city hall.
Seriously, the requirements for a house would require a lot of extra stuff not required for an accessory structure. I would need a working kitchen, working heat, and a working bathroom amongst other things. There is also the little issue of needing a variance to build a house on that lot as it was platted in 1880 and no longer meets the minimum lot width in the city. If I couldn't share the driveway with my current house it would be extremely costly to build a driveway to that lot. (There is a street back there, but there is a hydrant to be moved and a ditch to cross.)
I could barely afford to build a garage let alone a structure that is a pseudo house.
[/quote]I could barely afford to build a garage let alone a structure that is a pseudo house.
[/quote]
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi582.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss263%2Fboxcarokie%2FDSC00804.jpg&hash=0436a060ddbebad8af4fcc7e2b96f98f2d3f9e28)
How about something like this? All you need is a set of bigger doors (possibly a little height on the second floor) and you would be in business.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi582.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss263%2Fboxcarokie%2FDSC00805.jpg&hash=fac855cf97fd3f45fa18222fc87549e52a9f09a3)
This barn structure is located on Route 66 just outside of Yukon, Oklahoma picture was taken 3-7-2011
BCO
I've actually considered a house kinda like that if I moved to a larger lot that allows large garages. It doesn't help in my current situation as I could never afford to build a house on the back lot.
My thought for a future house with bus garage would be a house that is 48x50. The first floor would be 40x50 of garage/shop and 8x50 for stairs to house portion and mechanicals. Garage/shop portion would be 20x50 for a bus stall, 20x25 for auto garage, and 20x25 for a shop. The building would be 20 feet tall. The bus stall would be 20 feet tall inside. The car/garage portion would be about 10 feet tall with the house portion being 8 feet tall.
The house/apartment portion would be around 1100 square feet with two bedrooms, 1 bath, living room and kitchen. Not huge, but enough for me.
Quote from: belfert on March 07, 2011, 10:57:06 AM
The house/apartment portion would be around 1100 square feet with two bedrooms, 1 bath, living room and kitchen. Not huge, but enough for me.
Sounds like a plan to me, go for it.
BCO
Tell the city you are going to build a house,....build the shell, and tell them that you ran out of money and will finish it "someday". ;D
That don't work anymore ED little thing called a CO( certificate of occupation) now days they will not let you use the building till you have one the power co won't even give you permanent power.
Don't you love our government agencies local and federal
hmm, what are the remodeling codes where you are? Maybe you could do an addon that had a large door and remodel your house around that?
When I went back to Pa to take care of my Dad I tried to list his tiny house that was on a good sized lot and had a rental on it. No can do I was told. Huge code violations. So I had a GC come over and talk to me about my "remodel project" that I didn't want. Truthfully, I wanted to turn my back on the place and move back out to Orygun. The Ol'e man flipped at the thought of abandoning his "house". I promised him I would let him stay there for two years and then it was Oregun bound. Not having full mobility due to arth and knees I figured I could do the remodel in two years almost alone. Sooooo the GC and I got together. I didn't know at the time that I was a undiagnosed Type 2 Diabetic and that my blood sugars were hovering around 3 to 400 which is stroke, blindness, kidney failure and foot amputation territory not to mention severe and chronic fatigue.
The rear porch and the roof supports were rotted and the porch was a "crash right thru" and the roof was a "DANGER... FALLING ROOF" affair.
The AC had unsupported freon lines that were 20 feet long from the 20 year ago install that I had always pondered as "just plain stupid" but I hadn't been there for the install and it was for sure I would be there fir the "FIX". I know, I know, now lets not be too hasty in judging those craftsmen as they had to make a killing off this job to support their gambling or womanizing or drinking habits and after all, who can blame them? Right? I'll tell you who.
He mentioned that the toilet must have clogged up regularly right from the start and I asked if he was Claire Voyant? It had, in fact. From the day they moved in and they never had it fixed and it was a problem from day one. he pointed out that the drain was sloped in the wrong direction and $#!% doesn't flow UPHILL.. Claire Voyant and a rocket scientist to boot. I never noticed it before.
The water heater was leaking.
The furnace was not putting out enuf heat and that was due to a frozen valve that had been set in the "1/4 on" posit I won't hazard to guess just when.
Water flow at the faucets was down to slightly more than a trickle. The line feed had been changed over to copper and I thought I might be on a roll right there but I wasn't. Not even close. The copper fed a reduced 2 inch black iron, steel actually, pipe usually used in natural gas circumstances. That fed 1 1/2 inch black iron and then it reduced to 1/2 inch galvanized. This wasn't a "stack" of reducers but long runs of the different materials. I pointed that out to the GC and he offered that these houses were built when the steel mills were in full swing. People built houses from the stuff they could steal from the mills or pick up as scrap. Builder owners and contractos alike.
The house was under powered and I had to install a new box and run all sorts of lines....including the AC compressor which had no cut off breaker, fuse or switch within 10 feet and actually had none at all save the main breaker. Fire trap! The original box had a single fuse and the GC said that on day one the house was not legal.
Sheet rock the entire interior and rip out multiple layers of paneling.
The roof, while recently shingled, had had a leak engineered into the job. The leak had rotted an interior wall and staircase.
The basement had a torrent of water move thru it during every rain. I suggested damming it and going for the hydroelectric power angle. GC said it would bust code and more than a few guts in laughter. Ever the visionary, I proceeded to ID the sources and resolve those issues. A biggie was the crevasse in the front porch steps that dumped all the water that fell in the front yard int the basement via the gas line feed he had buried in sand. I was there for that event as I stayed home from school to help. Whu Knu?
The foundation had a big collapse headed inward tilt in one corner and all the blocks were loose.
All the power had to be pulled in to replace the "rubber coated extension cord wire" that was in the walls. Another steel mill acquisition, no doubt. And yes it crumpled in your hand and exposed copper wire. Why it never burned is a mystery.
Replace rotted flooring around the toilet.
replace tile in bath and kitchen and remove all carpet for the "layer". Saved a buck for Pap.
And just too very much work to list. Took me the two years but I was seriously sick.
I asked the GC if he had ever seen such a collection of disasters before. He answered "Sure, there didn't used to be any required permit or inspection unless you requested it. Then they implemented building code but didn't actually enforce it and then when they did enforce it you could pay the inspector $20 to "not come in". He even offered that at one time you could build a three story apartment bldg with a permit for a single family dwelling if you greased the inspector's palm with $100. Pennsyltucky!!!! >:(
This might seem to be a story limited to Civil Servant bashing and that would be false. It is about building inspection, permits and standards of construction. You and I don't need to be told to do the right, or sane or fair thing. We will do that regardless of regs. But we are not the only ones out there and the only ones really pining for the good old days are unscrupulous contractors. You got too much Gummint? Vote. You don't like it? Go down to city hall and complain, talk to the council, write letters. I did and that started the ball rolling that got a "non fireable" civil servant fired. God knows I have issues with local and fed Gummint. I swear I do on my mother's grave. I won't trade the devil I know for one that I know is worse. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
In my two purchases of VA financed homes the VA stepped in and forced the contractor to upgrade the property to meet the original plans that were submitted to the VA the VA bought off on and in another they forced a $5K discount for my Pac Ocean view because they said that the view was over priced and it was unobstructed. In the second case the local inspector didn't notice that the walkways were not as wide and shape as required by code. Can you just imagine the bitter comments and sour grapes that that contractor had to spew to all that would listen? And all he had to do at the outset was live up to his end of the contract.......rotten, infernal,. meddlesome GUMMINT. They have certainly been a thorn in my side on occasion and I have had to involve the inspection appeals board and supervisors to get matters resolved. Then I appealed to the commission that I was forced to take such troublesome actions and cause such expense to both me and the city with the appeals. First they gave me what I deserved in the first place and after a lot of hassle. Then I turned around and shoved a sharp stick in their eye by going over all their heads to the commission. Fair's fair. FU....F back. I got lots of time. That may be bad news for you. My friends think it is a serious plus.
Not to be picking on you Clifford or BCO. I love ya both. Admiration and respect is also in there besides the raw emotion. ;D
John
Quote from: boxcarOkie on March 07, 2011, 10:13:26 AM
I could barely afford to build a garage let alone a structure that is a pseudo house.
[/quote]
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi582.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss263%2Fboxcarokie%2FDSC00804.jpg&hash=0436a060ddbebad8af4fcc7e2b96f98f2d3f9e28)
How about something like this? All you need is a set of bigger doors (possibly a little height on the second floor) and you would be in business.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi582.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss263%2Fboxcarokie%2FDSC00805.jpg&hash=fac855cf97fd3f45fa18222fc87549e52a9f09a3)
This barn structure is located on Route 66 just outside of Yukon, Oklahoma picture was taken 3-7-2011
BCO
[/quote]
That is really nice looking building, but my big fear would be if you got a fire anywhere in there, you lose the bus and the house all in one. I could stand losing the bus or the house but not all at once. Yea if it's in a barn next to the house and a tornado comes by I may lose both. I know you can't eliminate all risk, but I do try to minimize when possible.
David
I can't add on to my current house if I get a building permit. (It would probably be hard to hide a bus garage.) I wanted to do a three car garage when I built the house and the city planner said they would recommend the planning commission not approve my variance unless I cut back to two car garage. I had to have a variance to build my house since my lot was platted in the 1880s and is narrower than current zoning code requires.
The city limits attached and detached garages to 750 sq ft total these days. Even if I tried to work around it by saying I was adding on a really big family room or something I couldn't get the required variance anyhow.
I'm not the type of guy who gets a building permit for every little thing, but for major work I do. It will be easier to sell down the road if everything was permitted and inspected.
[/quote]
That is really nice looking building, but my big fear would be if you got a fire anywhere in there, you lose the bus and the house all in one. I know you can't eliminate all risk, but I do try to minimize when possible.
David
[/quote]
Just an alternative or idea, I was working off your description of your lot limitations and all that. We cannot control the weather, nor circumstances in life, do not allow what you fear to control yours would be my advice. This is why we (most of us) are heavily invested in insurance.
Look at the possibilities and not the liabilities.
We had at one time considered building a pole barn, letting the tax man inspect as a pole barn, and then after he left, do the interior into a home. But you get into all kinds of crap when you do that, and then if they catch you ... well, you get the picture dontcha?
BCO
To be clear, I did talk to the city about an additional large garage several years back. They said it would not be allowed since I already have a 600 sq ft attached garage.
I haven't asked about building a garage on my second lot, but city code is pretty clear about a house being required first.