Due to events beyond reason (or my control), I need to find homes for a couple of Scenicruisers. I need assistance & advice on how to best proceed. Neither bus runs & I don't have the luxury of time to part them out.
My goal is to save these buses from possible further vandalism &/or the scrap man & focus my limited time on ME & MY chosen projects.
One is fully seated & all there (except for the A/C condenser & Radiator). After retirement, it was used as storage & some varmints used it as a hostel. I have removed some of the junk, but there's still enough there to see.
One was once Hoyt Axton's pride & joy. He wrote several songs about her & when he could, he included her in the movies he was in. After he sold it, it was converted & eventually ended up in Florida where 'Dr. Dave' started on his idea of what a conversion should be - he got bored with it & sold it. Eventually I ended up with it.
All it takes is one determined person & you will see how easily they can turn your tax dollars against you by using the local zoning office as their strong man. You might win & keep your stuff on your land, but at what cost. Then there is the very real vandalism which is so easy to do & almost impossible to prove. Even if you can prove it in court, there is no real incentive for them to pay - this is a very real situation. For ANYONE who says you can collect, I say you can't collect anything from someone who has nothing.
So, I can waste time fighting for the past, or, I can work towards a worthy goal. (Oh, I've hired a lawyer to deal with the aggravation, but I'm not letting that take center stage, nor am I waiting to see what that outcome will be.)
(Edit to add to subject line)
Wow, I was under the impression that SC in general was still a pretty free State. Are you in the city limits?
I know what you are going thru with the zoning thing. We brought our bus home on Thursday , Monday we had a certified letter from the city. We fought them all summer ,they passed a special ordinance that made it impossible to keep it there.That is why we are 12 miles from town in the sticks. Every thing is loaded against you with gov.
Quote from: thejumpsuitman on February 20, 2011, 05:48:21 AM
Wow, I was under the impression that SC in general was still a pretty free State. Are you in the city limits?
Nope, out in the country, even on a dirt road! Problem is the wording in the zoning. If you have more than 1 vehicle that does not run for a period of more than 30 days, you are defined as a junk yard & must maintain a privacy buffer & no vehicle can be parked within ~400 feet of the property line. My 15 acres is long enough, but not wide enough.
In order to build a barn or shelter to put them in, another zoning requirement requires I build a storm water detention pond. That is not required for housing, but it is for anything else. Oh, it gets worse - that pond is sized on the amount of 'disturbed earth'. The definition of which includes anything walked on! Seems the new non residential constriction must compensate for all the excessive runoff from the pre-existing construction.
I feel a major reason for all the restrictions is because the builders & developers have a strong lobby & are good at devising ways to entice farmers to sell their land. I'll bet it wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't on a major lake.
If I push back too hard, I risk loosing even more to vandals. So, I will thin the herd, remove all of them from that property. Then I will consider what options I have available.
A wise man once said "Living well is truly the best revenge" . . . .
So, I will focus on living well. 8)
Okay, zoning is one issue but vandalism is another.
However, if you mean "vandals" literally, that certainly constitutes crime.
And persons of said mindset probably wouldn't hesitate to carry it further.
There's lots of sophisticated yet inexpensive surveillance gear available today.
The buses are probably a narrow target area which may make catching the vandals not so tough.
If possible, the vandals should be pursued on principal alone.
However, if it's also found that vandals are somehow linked to the other issues that could change a lot of things.
I don't have the time, money or inclination to persue the vandals - again. BTDT too many times already. :(
I know who the vandals are, so do the cops, courts, prison, parole officer, etc.
The real problem is the same gov't that busts my a$$ about a zoning violation won't do anything to enforce the conditions of parole. Hence the vandal is free to roam the streets with impunity.
The most frustrating part is that the convicted crooks aren't made to comply with the rules while the victims are. Since that is the world we live in, I'm choosing to take a more pleasant path that will lead to more productive endeavors.
So, How do I liquidate a few buses quickly? I'd like them to be saved, not scrapped.
There are fewer than 25 seated scenicruisers left. The scenicruisers had seats that were unique to them only. Sure, other seats would work, but they wouldn't fit or look right. . . .
Hi Kyle,
Sorry for what you are dealing with! Don't make any sense... >:(
The only thing I can think of is "Storage Shed"
A guy did this here about 2 years ago and is getting away with it.
He took all the wheels off his two 50' containers and it's now NOT concidered a vehicle anymore but, a storage shed!
Just a thought!
Nick-
These are the reasons I say "I love my country but hate my government"
I like Nicks idea & think that is the way to go for more than one reason.
You are a good guy & I think you are giving up a fight too soon, but I also understand the "Choose your battles" thing.
I beat the city of Fort Myers Beach @ their own game, when they insisted on my moving my licensed insured bus from some private commercial property @ went as far as threatening the prop. owner with a daily fine. I moved it every night to the after hours free parking right on the new renovated streetscape. I then moved it to another piece of property between 2million dollar homes on a canal, from there I parked in city councels parking lot which is also my bank parking lot, I bet they wished they'd left me alone. The code enforcer was fired shortly after.
I hate to say it, but when states and counties, or municipalities start down this road, its not likely youll beat it. You certainly can try, some have been successful, but the vast majority are eventually forced to comply. And just because you win today, dont mean those people wont find another infraction to nail you with tomorrow. You become marked, and they wont give up til your gone.
Quote from: artvonne on February 20, 2011, 05:40:25 PM
You become marked, and they wont give up til your gone.
There are more of us than there are them (I don't mean bus nuts I mean American citizens) , so why not turn the tables
Quote from: Charley Davidson on February 20, 2011, 05:59:46 PM
There are more of us than there are them (I don't mean bus nuts I mean American citizens) , so why not turn the tables
My beef isn't with the zoning office, they are being used by the vandal's parents.
I have found the zoning office has been reasonable to work with in the past. You just have to play by their rules & give them an answer they can accept. Done it before & I can do it again.
The biggest problem is the vandal & his enabling parents. They will keep at it. I need to eliminate the leverage they have over me. Once the buses are gone, they can't hold them ransom (so to speak), & I'll be free to put the lawyers on them. ;D
I simply can't afford the time or money at this time to fight them. I've done so in the past & 'won' the court decision, but I got nothing for my efforts.
The trouble with zoning is it is almost never enforced unless a neighbor complains. Several of my neighbors have vehicles stored outside against regulations, but they don't bother me and the neighbors put with my bus work so I don't report them. The city actually did property inspections last summer and they claim to have no issues with my yard. They obviously didn't look too hard as my trash can storage violates code plus I had a large pile of trash at the time that has since been removed.
A gentleman I know got in trouble with his city over not storing his popup camper on gravel or a paved surface. He got upset and went around the neighborhood and wrote down every violation he could find. He kept the city zoning office busy for weeks.
PM'd ya!
This is the kind of story that makes me ill.
I like the storage shed idea and have seen a neighbor pull a similar trick here in VA, but he went the other way. He built a large storage shed and attached old metal farm wheels to it. That way he claimed it wasn't a permanent structure that could be moved and avoided the property tax hit.
You might want to try and contact the Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum (http://www.commonwealthcoach.org/?739f63cfb2c5234a540810270a19c003=d6901476b1cbb9b02ca9f377c9c00164). Bev Fitzpatrick is a part of that group and also the Executive Director for the Virginia Museum of Transportation (http://www.vmt.org/index.html). They don't have any money to speak of, but he does have a track record of saving buses and trains. At a minimum he might have some contacts that could be interested in saving them. Keep us posted on this.
Kyle,
My heart goes out to you. Just for clarification, is it a county law of a state law you have run afoul of? I am asking because I had considered moving to SC & won't if it is that strict statewide.
I have a similar problem here in Maryland. We bought a piece of land with a shop on it in a mostly residential area. One neighbor complained about the bus. We have since had a running battle. The zoning guy is pretty decent but the neighbor is a not. I know exactly how you feel about winning one battle only to have another one pop up. Where does it stop, right?
The only thing I have not done so far is sell the property to a group of hard core bikers or drug runners. And I might do that yet. I hate to ruin the neighborhood for the rest of the landowners but they have been content to stand by & not help either.I am fast approaching the point of I don't care what happens.
I hope you have success.
TOM
Tom,
My brother live in MD, and that state has some of the most restrictive laws regarding it's citizens. I would move regardless.
Buddy, If you were any closer to Oklahoma, I would have them brought over to my 40 acres. My two Scenicruiser's could use some company. We don't have any problem's out here. Heck, my neighbor has a collection of maybe over 50 Ford Taurus's that he buys at auction and then resells to his renters of his trailer park at high interset, and when they can't pay he repos them and resells them to another sucker.
Send the old girls out here, and I'll watch over them.
Aaron
Kyle,
I wish I were still @ our property in Union City where I could start a bus storage yard that could house as many buses as any of us wanted to store there.
But I'm not and we are tight on space as it is now.
As you already know I am a big "Cruiser" fan and would love to have one. But I would have no place to store it even if I were to "acquire" one and somehow come up with the $ to get it towed home.
I wish there was some way to get the property down the road from us that has 10 acres, a HUGE shop 160'X200' and an unfinished house in the country and used to by a recycling plant (so I doubt the neighbors will have any complaints about what goes back in there!), but again $ comes in the way!
I'll be looking and searching for a way on my end to help you save one!
:( BK :(
Any busnut with money looking to relocate that would like to live near BK? ;D
Building a storage shed would be cheap enough, but the detention pond is cost prohibitive.
The real problem is the neighbor - she lives there & I don't - so she has unlimited access to make trouble - which is what she is doing.
I must move anything she can use against me out of her reach. Then I'll consider what options make the most sense.
She has been behind all of the negative issues I've had down there (her children did it & she covered up for them). Problem is, there is no proof that will hold up in court & she knows it.
What goes around comes around.
You reap what you sow. . . .
I know not everyone can but it would be nice if we were mobile enough to vote with our feet when Local and State Politicians get too restrictive, some restrictions are good some are bad. If taxpayers started leaving the over regulated repressive areas in droves when the restrictions become overbearing things would change. Another thing the more restrictions the higher the tax base seems to be.
Here in rural Arkansas I can have as many projects as I want on my acreage ( I do keep things neat) the downside is someone can buy the 40 acres upwind of me and put in 5 poultry houses if they so desire.
Rick
Quote from: Rick59-4104 on February 21, 2011, 09:11:29 AM
I know not everyone can but it would be nice if we were mobile enough to vote with our feet when Local and State Politicians get too restrictive, some restrictions are good some are bad. If taxpayers started leaving the over regulated repressive areas in droves things would change.
Rick
Very true, and I am about to cast that vote myself.
Quote from: Rick59-4104 on February 21, 2011, 09:11:29 AM
Here in rural Arkansas I can have as many projects as I want on my acreage ( I do keep things neat) the downside is someone can buy the 40 acres upwind of me and put in 5 poultry houses if they so desire.
Rick
Thats the price of being free Rick. Hard to believe NC could be more restrictive that Minnesota though.
As Benjamin Franklin was quoted as saying, "those who would give up a little freedom, for a little security, deserve neither."
Its not just an old Bus we cant park on OUR property, its what we wanted to stop someone else from doing yesterday, that is coming back to bite us today. Before you act to stop your neighbor, ask yourself if there is something you like having the freedom to do that he might have a problem with. Most all of these rules are coming from tit for tat and an almost complete lack of personal responsibility. I suppose next they will try to ban Happy Meal Toys.
Maybe we should come up with a list of "stay away" states to publicly declare as a group that we won't tolerate their nonsense. I would rather spend my time and money in States that value personal freedoms. I have put Louisiana on my list From what I've heard about MN, maybe it should be on there too.
I really hope you find a good home for those Buses. I would probably be interested in the better one, but I already feel an MCI 9 is to big and heavy. A SC is Ginormous and no doubt very thirsty.
Why all the hate for Minnesota? I live in Minnesota and I am not aware of a bunch of freedoms I am giving up by living here.
The major suburb I live in has some pretty liberal RV parking restrictions for the size of the city. If your RV is on the side or back of your house it can be located anywhere as long as it is 5 feet from the property line. It can even be in front of your house as long as it is on your driveway. A lot of cities don't allow RVs in front of the house period.
Quote from: belfert on February 21, 2011, 07:52:52 PM
Why all the hate for Minnesota? I live in Minnesota and I am not aware of a bunch of freedoms I am giving up by living here.
The major suburb I live in has some pretty liberal RV parking restrictions for the size of the city. If your RV is on the side or back of your house it can be located anywhere as long as it is 5 feet from the property line. It can even be in front of your house as long as it is on your driveway. A lot of cities don't allow RVs in front of the house period.
I've heard a lot of horrible things about MN State police. Then there was that episode a busnut had after a minor accident a few months ago.
Marc,
That would be RickB. I don't remember where he lives, though.
God bless,
John
I would love one of the Scenics. My Fiance' even has a place to park one. (I occasionally get the "hint" to keep looking for a bus, now that I have my CDL.). The issue is what it would take to get one in running enough condition to get it here... :-\
Good luck!
Doug
Scenics are lighter than a MC9. With seats & luggage racks removed - 25,000#
The rounded corners reduce wind drag. The 2 that I drove home averaged about 10 mpg running ~55 to 65 mph. The gps reported a max speed of 80 mph.
Just talked to the county. She was very interested in all the details - especially the verbal approval I was given in 2007. I told her I may need more than 3 months to move them & she said that was fine & that considering the circumstances, as long as I was making an effort that they would work with me.
So now, my concern is not the county, but rather what the crazy neighbor will do next.
Thanks to those who have expressed intrest & encouragement. I have been giving this a lot of thought & am proceeding down a path that I believe will be the most productive.
I will be offering several for sale & I will make appropriate descriptions including photos.
I will investigate the appropriate venues for listing them - I may even try Ebay. :o
I wish I could remember the details now but they escape me.
Some years back, a North Florida farmer was having problems with people complaining about all his trucks and tractors being an eyesore. Technically, they had him for a zoning violation of some kind.
They stopped complaining when he put up a big sign about the large pig farm operation coming soon to the property, which was completely OK with the rural zoning.
It seems that sometimes, out in the country, farmers sometimes plant houses instead of crops. The city folks move out to their "Ranchettes" and immediately start complaining about the smells and noises coming from the farms.
Kyle
These guys are just up the road from me in Williams California and they used to buy old Buses to fix up or for parts for Movies. They would landall them in from all over the country. Don't know if they still do. Worth a try.
Dave
http://www.coachmaintenance.com/ (http://www.coachmaintenance.com/)
(530)473-5544
Quote from: belfert on February 21, 2011, 07:52:52 PM
I live in Minnesota and I am not aware of a bunch of freedoms I am giving up by living here.
Brian, I lived there all my life, 51 years in fact. Im sorry you wernt aware of the steady march of draconian laws and rules and regulations that have hemmed in sportsman, fisherman, hunters, boat owners, land owners and gun owners. Besides that, Its the 4th highest taxed state in the US. Not the 17th like the local news networks or Star Trib try to lie about. Combine all that joy with the coldest average temps in the lower 48, Mosquitos that keep you inside all summer, drivers that constantly cut you off, tailgate, wont let you in/out, give you the finger while mouthing the word, and some of the most Gestapo police ive ever had the pleasure of meeting. But honestly, y'all givin us Mr Franken was the last straw.
I been here a year and a half. No one is foul mouthed, everyone waves and smiles, lets you in, holds doors open for you, seldom tailgated, havnt got the finger yet, and you can do just about anything you could do up there 30 years ago and no one thinks anything of it.
PS. They suspended two police officers down here for foul language. Kinda funny.
Quote from: thejumpsuitman on February 21, 2011, 08:02:37 PM
I've heard a lot of horrible things about MN State police. Then there was that episode a busnut had after a minor accident a few months ago.
My one and only interaction with the MN State Police was very pleasant. My brand new truck died two miles from home on a -9F day. A state trooper stopped and offered to take me to a nearby gas station to stay warm. He ended up taking me home since my house was only another 1/4 mile away.
What happened to RickB was unfortunate. Luckily, I have never used my bus for anything commercial so I shouldn't have that issue.
I'm starting to think I may never have seen a scenicriser. All along I thought they were 45 footers. You can put a roadranger in these big ol dudes. right?
I wish you lived closer to me. Not because you could move those ole potential eye candies to my place. Better yet that my biker buds and I could show up and act like we are buying the property!!! Not that we are bad types but that's just between us. Sometimes putting the fear of God into someone isn't such a bad idea. That and some good old "an eye for an eye". You already know how the local officials are so concerned about your property. It probably works both ways.
Quote from: Chopper Scott on February 22, 2011, 07:00:27 PM
You already know how the local officials are so concerned about your property. It probably works both ways.
LOL. im sure we could all imagine a few scenarios that could make the neighbor decide the Buses arent such a big deal afterall.
Paul -
Of course you've seen a Scenicruiser - you're young enough that they were still in revenue service with the Gray Dog when you were a teenager!
Yes, a 10-spd RoadRanger will fit - these are a "T-drive" configuration. Be forewarned, tho - you can easily end up with a backwards shift pattern!
But, just to refresh your memory, here's a photo I took in Los Angeles of PD4501-001, the first one off the production line in 1954, still owned by Greyhound, now in it's historic fleet:
;)
Quote from: RJ on February 23, 2011, 12:54:19 AM
Paul -
Of course you've seen a Scenicruiser - you're young enough that they were still in revenue service with the Gray Dog when you were a teenager!
I know they were in service, I just dont ever recall seeing one out on the road, or anywhere else.
I posted pictures in the photo section over at :
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Scenicruiserdepot/ (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Scenicruiserdepot/)
Look for photo albums :
"PD4501-789" for the conversion that ran good last it was used. Reinstall radiator hoses & add water. . . .
& "PD4501-869" for the seated coach. This one will need to be haulled on a trailer & will need serious work, but it has all the interior trim.
You will have to be a member to see them, but if you pay attention to your personal account settings, you won't get any emails or spam from them. The moderator is very good at keeping spammers away.
I'll entertain serious offers.
BTW, if I get these buses removed in a timely fashion, I will make a generous contribution to the board as a thank you for all their help. ;D