At 36, I plan to keep my 4104 as long as I can. How long (if at all) before the "Government" squeezes us (two cycle ops.) off the road. Opinions, suggestions,questions......what are we headed for..electric motors?!
When you can no longer afford to put fuel in it. There are so few old buses out there that you don't need to worry about it. High fuel costs drive people to use the more efficient four strokes. With the fuel mileage you can get from your 4104 with the 671 and four speed you will probably last longer than most.
I wouldn't worry about the government regulating RVs (that's us) off the road. They are more concerned about commercial vehicles.
2 stoke Detroits are plentiful, still in production, with lots of parts availibility, and popular.
And wether your engine is still legal or not in the future doesn't matter because your bus, or mine won't be worth any more then, but rather much less than today.
So the best thing we can do is carry on enjoying our buses, maintain them, keep them going, and don't worry about the gov. or resale.
JC
Lostagain -
Amen! But still... :'(
Nellie
Quote from: Nellie Wilson on February 07, 2011, 11:25:27 PM
Lostagain -
Amen! But still... :'(
Nellie
We are going to bury ours, make a storm cellar out of it, and live in it during tornado season.
BCO
Government responds to lobbying.
Which lobby group are you supporting, and are you sure they are looking out for you?
As long as the rich folks are using 2 stroke Detroits in their boats...
As long as the snobs in the RV associations don't see the smog rules as a way to exclude us...
offering up support to rule out the oldest as a delaying tactic to fend off their own inclusion until they can't get down the road anymore. Ever check out the vintage of the FMCA executive? They aren't likely to be worried about going down the road in a decade...
Don't go thinking we're safe and ignore the game.
That's how we get run over.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
They still allow model T's to drive down the road.
BW, I keep a close eye on the FMCA big wheels they go into office driving a Southwind 2 years later they are driving a new H-45 Prevost makes you wonder what happens to your 40 bucks a year huh
good luck
All good points IMHO.
Man, I could really rant on about this but I'll spare you the boredom (sure you've heard it all before... or said it yourselves).
Suffice to say, I'm the only bus in this joint. In the space of a year, seen just 2 others - Ednj's Eagle (after Arcadia) and a race driver's Prevost (probably $1M +). Other than that, trailers, 5th wheelers, S&S RVs and a gob of 'pre-manufactured homes' (the last of which sold for $1000 - I kid you not).
Now, I gotta say, I get lots of compliments, a few gawkers and even some bus converts. But mostly, it's upturned noses and rude comments (many don't know I'm bilingual). And this from people who'd have to crane their rigs off the lot.
It's insulting and - to be honest - it kinda hurts too. But the comments reveal such profound ignorance it relieves the sting. And here I thought Quebeckers had cornered the 'shallow' market (to be fair, many of these S&S robots are Quebeckers.
If I wanted a box on wheels, I would'a got one. Come to think of it, I did... a soapbox racer. But I've wised up since I was six. Sadly, most haven't... and they're the jerks who run the show. So - echoing BW -beware!
Nellie
I believe that one day all vehicles on the road will be electric. I believe that fuel as we know it is on its way out. But I dont think it will directly be because the government says we cant drive petroleum based vehicles, rather it will be a matter of personal choice because the cost of electric vehicles will come down and the batteries will be more efficient and the price of fuel will be too high. I think the governemnt will encourage and back these changes to strong arm people into the change. For the time being, anything over $1.25 a gallon is just absurb to my wallet and so I am using biodiesel. These old 2strokes like veggie oil and biodiesel better then #2 diesel, from what I have been told, whereas the computer engines do not like it.
Nellie, feel sorry for them and understand they are just uneducated in the superiority of a good bus compared to a S&S. And good for you in being bilingual!!!
Quote from: happycamperbrat on February 08, 2011, 09:33:35 AM
I believe that one day all vehicles on the road will be electric. I believe that fuel as we know it is on its way out. But I dont think it will directly be because the government says we cant drive petroleum based vehicles, rather it will be a matter of personal choice because the cost of electric vehicles will come down and the batteries will be more efficient and the price of fuel will be too high. I think the governemnt will encourage and back these changes to strong arm people into the change. For the time being, anything over $1.25 a gallon is just absurb to my wallet and so I am using biodiesel. These old 2strokes like veggie oil and biodiesel better then #2 diesel, from what I have been told, whereas the computer engines do not like it.
Nellie, feel sorry for them and understand they are just uneducated in the superiority of a good bus compared to a S&S. And good for you in being bilingual!!!
Hip Hip On the bio diesel! Mine loves it as it drinks a gallon every 7.5 miles ;D
I know it's a different area but the feds have all but pushed out the 2 cycle engine for lawnmowers for the same reasons. I have a 1988 LAWNBOY that is as good as the day I bought it 23 years ago and a one year TORO 2 cycle 5 hp snowblower. This way I can us the same fuel so I hope my old mower lasts for many more years. I love the fact that I don't have to change oil. As far as all electric buses and cars some day, I'll believe that when someone comes out with a cordless vacuum clean that doesn't crap out after 10 minutes. I can see any number of CHEVROLET VOLTS dead on the interstate that owners got digusted with and abandoned them. Then some farmer will tow it out to his field to sit there and attract wasps and spiders.
The greed of politics loves to hide behind smokescreens.
I figure they won't knock us off the road directly. It will be indirect, like raising the cost of fuel to the point we obsolete them ourselves. That way the real villians hide behind a smoke screen distraction that most are too dense to look thru.
Remember when gas shot up to over $4.00 / gal? Most blamed the gas companies.
I wonder how much was actually the fault of the refineries?
How much was due to the speculators?
What part did insufficient supply of EPA required additives have? Is there any truth to the rumor that the petrol companies weren't allowed to make those additives & the suppliers didn't make the deadline & the EPA didn't extend it as they had done in the past?
Based on where I live & the facilities available to me, unfortunately biodiesel or wvo would cost me lots more than paying at the pump.
One day, that may change, but I don't see it in the near future. . . .
Quote from: kyle4501 on February 08, 2011, 10:49:37 AM
The greed of politics loves to hide behind smokescreens.
I figure they won't knock us off the road directly. It will be indirect, like raising the cost of fuel to the point we obsolete them ourselves. That way the real villians hide behind a smoke screen distraction that most are too dense to look thru.
Based on where I live & the facilities available to me, unfortunately biodiesel or wvo would cost me lots more than paying at the pump.
Smokescreens.......... so true! Here in Cally I cant collect veggie oil for making biodiesel. But Im fortunate because I have a brother in Idaho who makes it for me and my fuel tank is about 150 gallons, so it's a good excuse for a visit and cost effective.
It will be the end of a lot more than two stroke diesels soon if we dont soon put our collective heads back together and get on the same page. We are the only people on Earth that claim their Government is run by her people, for her people. But her people have left it to the dogs.
Again, everything said is so dead on... except maybe the electric vehicle prophecy? I just don't see that... kinda like global warming, just another kneejerk fad. It'll wear off when folks have to buy a $5000 battery for their 3 year old $200 car.
Camperbrat's really lucky! I too collected veggie oil but my supply ended when 'commercial interests' (a guy with a truck) took over.
No matter what we do, we're knocked off the block. I know an RV guy that went to diesel, then diesel went up. So he drove to Mexico with bladder tanks (about $.30 US/gal) and they made that illegal. So he adapted his RV to run propane... and then propane shot up. Biodiesel was great for a couple moments but now we can't get the oil and buying commercially is zero savings.
And the friggin' government talks about 'innovation' - what a bunch of crap. Innovation and self-reliance are concepts of the past. We created the monster and the monster has taken us over.
Nellie
ith
Quotethe batteries will be more efficient
There is hope that will happen, but after 100 years we are still waiting. So far nothing comes close to replacing the energy density that petroleum has. I'm not knocking the dream of one day having a break through though.
Quote from: Nellie Wilson on February 08, 2011, 12:27:39 PM
So he drove to Mexico with bladder tanks (about $.30 US/gal) and they made that illegal.
If you were to drive just across the border, such as to Tijuana for a day trip (the US and Mexicans don't check passports entering MX from San Ysidro or Otay Mesa, so they wouldn't know how long you had been in MX), and you filled up at Pemex before coming back, is that illegal? Surely you don't have to pay US tax on fuel purchased abroad? I'm just curious. How have folk here who've driven their buses into MX dealt with this?
I agree with you about the absurdity of the entire present system of emission controls. I see fast-food restaurants belching smoke out of their fryer vents, I smell aircraft exhaust for several miles around LAX, I see other significant sources of pollution everywhere around me - where are the controls over those obvious polluters? I fear that us 2-stroke users will have to lobby hard in the future to preserve our rights, and to question the methodologies of CARB and other unelected bodies who operate without any real democratic oversight.
John
John
QuoteAgain, everything said is so dead on... except maybe the electric vehicle prophecy? I just don't see that... kinda like global warming, just another kneejerk fad. It'll wear off when folks have to buy a $5000 battery for their 3 year old $200 car.
Camperbrat's really lucky! I too collected veggie oil but my supply ended when 'commercial interests' (a guy with a truck) took over.
No matter what we do, we're knocked off the block. I know an RV guy that went to diesel, then diesel went up. So he drove to Mexico with bladder tanks (about $.30 US/gal) and they made that illegal. So he adapted his RV to run propane... and then propane shot up. Biodiesel was great for a couple moments but now we can't get the oil and buying commercially is zero savings.
Agree with all that, not much more to say.
QuoteInnovation and self-reliance are concepts of the past.
Need some clarification on this. I think innovation and self-reliance is the answer. I might have missed the context of the meaning. If the government stands in the way it will be a thing of the past.
Barn Owl -
Bless your feathery little heart. I don't know if you're right...
"I think innovation and self-reliance is the answer. I might have missed the context of the meaning. If the government stands in the way it will be a thing of the past"...
... but I sure hope you are. (Sorry, haven't figured out that 'Quote" command).
Nellie
I always think about what Ronald Regan said when I here these conversations. He said that governments thought was if it moves, tax it. If it stops moving, subsidize it!! How true!!