my bus quit on me a few month back and had to have it towed back to my shop, I haven't bothered to fool with it as I don't travel anymore but I need to sell it now. I need someone to check the codes for me so I can figure out the problem.
I was low on fuel so I thought I ran out, got it running on veg oil and went & got fuel leaving it run while pumping fuel on veg oil, switched to diesel & it quit on me and wouldn't start again on either fuel or with ether.
Hi Ron, Welcome back!
The first thing that comes to mind is fuel filters. You may get your engine running and then after
shutting down, you may not restart if they are fairly clogged.
Second would be fuel lines. You may be sucking air somewhere.
Good Luck
Nick-
loosen the clamp on the exhaust output of the turbo -
and move the pipe that leads to the muffler or catalytic converter out of the way
perhaps you have a clogged in the exhaust system
DDEC and error codes or not your engine should run on either
Thanks Nick
Catalytic converter? Man I wish this thing had one I'd probably get enough money outta that thing to pay off all my bills ;D
The not firing on ether has got me concerned
Hard Headed Ken is close to you.
Thanks Robert, I just checked his profile but no mention of where he lives, I'll just wait and see if he chimes in.
Charley,
I'm just up the road from you about 2 miles passed 840 on Murfreesboro Rd. I have most all the diagnostic software. Call me 615 210 4963
Ken
You mentioned you run it on WVO OR SVO? I say this because if that oil isn't heated at least to 180 degrees before it is
injected you might have a severe carbon build up in the engine. I hope that's not your case. Like everyone mentioned check
your filters! Good Luck!
Steve 5B.......
If it doesn't run on ether, then it doesn't sound like a fuel delivery problem. It should at least fire a few times after you squirt the fluid. Are you spraying it close to the engine or is it a long distance through the breather to get to the engine? Sometimes, if starting fluid has to travel a long way to get to the combustion chamber it looses its oomph. Make sure that you are accessing somewhere close to the intake side of the engine and see if that helps.
Squirting right in the air cleaner box with air filter out.
Quote from: trucktramp on January 27, 2011, 05:20:40 AM
If it doesn't run on ether, then it doesn't sound like a fuel delivery problem. It should at least fire a few times after you squirt the fluid.
I would second this, and add, that while you need to be very careful with starting fluid, you have to use enough to get it to fire, and enough more to get it to run momentarily. A little squirt as like what a lawnmower or weedeater would fire on, wont even pop in a giant diesel engine. Dont empty the can into it, but dont be afraid to give it a moderate squirt. If it was running okay and quit, it didnt suddenly hole all the pistons or stick all the valves open, so it should still run. And while a diesel wont flood, they can get pretty water logged with fuel after a lot of cranking and a lot of not firing. All that wet fuel sitting on the piston and wetting the chamber absorbs a lot of the heat needed to reach spontaneous combustion. When she finally lights she'll likely blow a lot of white smoke till she clears.
However, I would check that your engine shutdown butterfly is open. If its not you wont get any air into it, and it wont ever run or fire either one, no matter how much ether or fuel you pump into it.
I would caution however, if you have been spraying ether and come close to emtying a can in a short period of time with no results of firing, wait a long while for it to evaporate off and dissapate. Because if you sprayed it in there, its still in there, and it wont simply go away immediately. I saw a car get the hood blown off once and blow the guy to the curb with some good hair singe and burned his clothes from emtying a can of ether without allowing it to work. When it finally caught, it blew. Big diesels have reportedly exploded from simular situations. I dont like ether for all those reasons. A good engine thats getting fuel will start at very low temps without ether. You should beable to crack a line and watch while you crank it if its getting fuel. If it ran out, you could have pulled air that took a while to get to the Engine. Perhaps a reprime is in order.
Charley, if a DDEC I disconnet the power and let it reset on the others check your power supply sometimes they blow the fuse when running out of fuel,not uncommon for one not to run on starting fluid if you are not getting any fuel are you getting any type smoke black or white they will blow black smoke a little when they need priming there is no shut down flapper on the DDEC 8v92
good luck
I'm far from a bus expert but know a lot about veggie systems as I have converted 2 Diesel Mercedes. This is what I think happened...
1. You did run out of diesel
2. You switched to veggie and got it running
3. When you switched back to diesel with fuel in the tank you still had a diesel fuel line full of air and still do
4. the either won't get it started with no diesel being injected.
I would suggest removing the fuel line that connects to the engine and use a brake job vacuum pump to pull diesel through until you get no air bubbles.
Good luck,
Paul.
P.S. I'm in the market for a bus and would love one already converted to veggie, what kind of bus do you have?
Quote from: pickpaul on January 27, 2011, 08:30:50 AM
4. the either won't get it started with no diesel being injected.
No, but it will keep it runniing as long as you keep squirting.
I still think there is no fuel at the IP. He's trying to use either to get running on diesel. It takes a hell of a lot of either to run a 12 litre engine when there is no other fuel source and if he is (rightfully) nervous about using too much it would explain things. It's a very easy thing to test.
There's nothing to be nervous about running on straight ether. When it starts the engine will continue to run as long as you keep pressing the squirt button. Unfortunately, you don't get any lubrication from ether like you do from fuel. Ether used like this is a common way to "reprime" a motor that has been run dry.
If you have a DDEC-II
here's a trouble shooting diagram - just use a 12 test light
for power and to see the injectors flash - clip the test lamp to a good ground and back-probe the connectors
to check the grounds circuits are good - clip the test lamp to a good 12 source and back-probe the ground pins
ooops - diagram corrected from first version
I agree, that it sure sounds like a fuel issue.
However, be sure to check that the DDEC is getting voltage. If it is DDEC III, it will have two power supply terminals on the ECM. Both will have fuses/breakers on them. Also, the voltage can't be very much below 12 volts.
Jim
It's DDECII, Right now the batteries need charged before I can do anything, I ran them down when trying to get it started.
I've had this bus for 6 or 7 years with no real problems only left me stranded once before and that was the crank position censor. Ether was the only way to get it spinning fast enough to get it started then.
I'm hoping it's just a bad censor or a DDEC code shut down I'm gonna have Ken come check the codes next week, he doesn't have the connector for DDECII and I'm busy with some other projects that are more important at this time.
How does DDEC work when it shuts down an engine, is there a fatal code that won't let it start regardless what you do?
low water sensor has shut me down twice. Engine will crank but not start. Also there are low oil pressure sensor and low fuel pressure sensor that will shut you down.Easy to ck water tank it might have a drip leak somewhere in system. Also If DDEC doesn't have 12 volts to it it won't work. One bad battery in the correct position can cause this. Do have a flash code on the engine light on the dash?
Low water will let it start but not run on fast idle then shut down, I have a cold leak so this happens a lot, first thing I checked.
The dash light don't work as far as I know.
what my question was (meant) is what does DDEC do to shut off engine and keep it from starting?
Ron, are you saying that the check and stop engine lights don't work? If that is the case, it sure makes troubleshooting a challenge. If they worked, there should be a procedure to read the code via the ignition switch the the lights (not sure on DDEC II but on later DDECs that is the case).
The DDEC II data connector is not the standard data connector used on later DDEC versions (6 pin/9 pin) or other diesel engines. It is a 12 pin connector and, as I recall, it is an OBD2 connector. I would think that most folks with a ProLink might not have the correct connector. If you line someone up, make sure they have the correct cable.
As far as shutting the engine off, they cut the injector control off. You could not check that without a ProLink or DDEC software on a computer.
Jim
Did you get your bus started??
Ken
Haven't fooled with it other than charging batteries, been kinda busy trying to make money, got a job today so I'll have some extra money to spend on it getting it ready to sell. I'll call you when it gets a little warmer, it's never liked the cold too well.
Had a relay like the ford ones I think in top drivers side toward front that supplies power from Ignition to ddec ck that relay.
I liked PickPaul"s suggestion for the problem and solution. That made perfect sense to me. That may be a problem right there. :P Sorry no body acknowledged you, Bud.
Thanks Pick. :)
About that either. Long ago when I was a 26 year old Radar tech supervisor I got saddled with doing the monthly PMs on a D gen that was dropped off at our radar tower. I knew just as much about a D as you might expect a radar electronics tech to know. ZIP! I read the label on the side of the gen and followed the instructions. It had no heaters and was not warmed prior to starting. A block heater you say ??????? At 5,500 ft it was a no start even in the summer. It came with a case of either cans and the instructions on the side of the D said to squirt the stuff into the air intake till it started. It did not say how long or if I should stop with one can. I would spray that stuff into the intake air in front of the air filter for 5 seconds and then, while spraying, hit the start. It always started on the third rev and idled like a D which is to say it sounded broke. I ran it on the can of either till I ran out and sometimes it kept running and most often it needed two cans to stay lit. I know I knew nothing and I had a hunch that either was dangerous and that my butt was hanging out but orders is orders. In this incarnation I would have had that Tech Sergeant's stripes on a pole outside my teepee for all my loyal men to admire. (Hildebrand, I hope you are listening)
So what was my alternative? It would not stay running without the either. Today I would call the "ground power" shop that generated all our site power and told them THEY have a problem or wrote it up NRTS (not repairable this station) and walked away. That thing was 15 feet long and six or seven feet of it was yellow D. On skids and 7 feet tall total. If it won't run without either what do you do?
What kind of bus is this? I remember long ago you talked about your WVO powered bus and you were rebuilding the engine after years of WVO. As I recall the engine was tired when you first started using WVO and the conversion had nothing to do with the overhaul. I think there was some talk about you taking pics of the engine internals to show the condition after 10's of K of miles. Share those with us please. I am very interested in that topic myself and I hope we can get more info out of you as time permits.
Thanks,
John
Quote from: JohnEd on February 04, 2011, 06:32:04 PM
I remember long ago you talked about your WVO powered bus and you were rebuilding the engine after years of WVO. As I recall the engine was tired when you first started using WVO and the conversion had nothing to do with the overhaul. I think there was some talk about you taking pics of the engine internals to show the condition after 10's of K of miles. Share those with us please. I am very interested in that topic myself and I hope we can get more info out of you as time permits.
Thanks,
John
wrong bus & guy
Charlie!
Gollee, haven't heard from you since Heck was a pup. How come you're through travelin'?
Hey, been through the same and turned out I was just sucking air (so what's new?). 'Course I don't have all your whistles & bells, but my old 8V-71 acted just the same. Wish I'd known about this board and gotten the same advice - would've saved me many nightmares and beacoup bucks.
Hey, don't sell that bus... it's just fine. You'll see :)!
"I've had many horrible experiences in my life... :'( ... and some of them actually happened ;D" (Mark Twain, Will Rogers, W.C. Fields? Anyway, somebody famous...)
Shoot me a PM sometime?
Nellie
[/quote]
wrong bus & guy
[/quote]
Dang, there goes my record. This was my first mistake ever. ::)
Gett'n old. I now think it was IllyaFish. What ever happened to that guy? He was a nice sort and had a band, if I remember. Oh no. I'm getting that feeling again. :P
I read more and more people say they are interested in WVO or BIO so I tyhopught that would be a good segway. Anybody know how Illya's bus overhaul went?
Thanks for getting back to me with the correction Charley.
John
I thought he was selling that for scrap or just to pay the storage/tow bill
Keep on thinking, Charlie, keep thinking. :P
John
I would venture to say the fuel pump got a dose of WVO that rounded the fuel pump drive yoke
good luck
Charged the batteries and fooled with it a bit yesterday, it will hit on either but not stay running, both fuel filters are full of diesel.
The WVO tank was empty explaining why it quit on WVO & wouldn't restart. I'm gonna check the 3 way valves to see if they might be stuck on the WVO side not allowing it to suck diesel.
How can I check my fuel pump? Thought I would shut off fuel to the first filter then crank it over to see if it empties them but not sure if I can do it that way because of the fuel pressure switch that keeps the starter from working.
Any new ideas?
Quote from: Charley Davidson on February 15, 2011, 09:34:32 AM
Charged the batteries and fooled with it a bit yesterday, it will hit on either but not stay running, both fuel filters are full of diesel.
The WVO tank was empty explaining why it quit on WVO & wouldn't restart. I'm gonna check the 3 way valves to see if they might be stuck on the WVO side not allowing it to suck diesel.
How can I check my fuel pump? Thought I would shut off fuel to the first filter then crank it over to see if it empties them but not sure if I can do it that way because of the fuel pressure switch that keeps the starter from working.
Any new ideas?
just remove the return line , that comes from the heads and goes back to the tank, and check if its spilling fuel while cranking. fuel in the filters wont prove anything ,and air in a gear pump takes some time to get out! some on here use a small electric pump, just to prime.
i have a sightglass and pressure and vacuum guage in my fuel line, just to make sure pump and wvo valves are working correct. makes troubleshooting way easier.
I have a schrader valve by my filter block (diesel side) should I pump diesel into that or will it make any difference since my filters are full?
when CRANKKING - look for 5-10 psi at the SECONDARY FILTER (that's AFTER the fuel pump) - screw gauge into spare filter port
worst case use a schradder valve with a 1/4" npt adapter and a car tire gauge
10-15 psi at IDLE (no load)
50-70 psi at 1200 rpms (full load)
to remove all other problems , like air in suction line or fuel dropped back to the tank , because the check valve is bad. i would use a small reserve fuel canister or a gallon jug with diesel. remove the fuel inlet from the primary filter and run it into the the canister. should be easy with all your plumbing allready changed for the three ways. check if you get fuel on the return while cranking. we are talking of up to 1 gallon a minute.
if you cant get it to spill, try to prime it with a small pump to get fuel into the gear pump. if the pump is dry it wont build up suction.
if you have a canister with a fitting on the bottom to gravity feed , that would make priming also easy.
goal is to get fuel into the pump , so it seals up again to build up suction!!
also if you have traces of wvo left in your pump and it has been sitting for month, it will goo up the pump.
if it has also air with it , it can get to a rubber like substance.
so if priming wont work and you made sure the pump has fuel, you are maybe in to remove the pump and check its drive or the gears itself.
I think/hope I might have found the issue (crossing fingers) I had a buddy sit up front and operate my switches for the feed and return 3 way valves, I never heard or couldn't feel the solenoids click so I think they are stuck on the WVO side & that tank is below the feed tube. Gonna put about 5 gallons of diesel in there and see if she fires up. Won't be able to get to it until Thurs. or Fri.
Got the bus running, it was exactly what I thought, the 3 way valves are not working, the return is stuck going back to diesel tank & the supply is stuck on WVO.
Now I'm gonna get it ready to sell.
Glad you found it!
Best of luck in your sale! It's a really bad time to have to sell with the market the way it is, but who knows it could turn out good!
;D BK ;D
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on February 16, 2011, 09:24:49 PM
Glad you found it!
Best of luck in your sale! It's a really bad time to have to sell with the market the way it is, but who knows it could turn out good!
;D BK ;D
Charlie's bus definitely is not furnished with the average interior decor. The way I remember it, it is lots better than most. 8)
Finding the right buyer is all it takes. (cheap helps too :o )
Quote from: kyle4501
Charlie's bus definitely is not furnished with the average interior decor. The way I remember it, it is lots better than most. 8)
Finding the right buyer is all it takes. (cheap helps too :o )
OH I agree 100%. Still a tough market to sell in, but hey he may be able to sell it to some of his "groupies" ;)
;D BK ;D
Easy bus to market "Drive free" "Live free" With all the alt energy stuff on this bus (some still needs hooked up) a person could live virtually free or so close it doesn't matter.
Upgraded drive train (8V92 DDEC + Allison 740A ATEC)
Polished stainless that's in near perfect condition.
Rust issues repaired except under front w/s
Will make someone a real nice bus @ a reasonable price
What make/model is the bus? What is he asking for it? Are there interior/exterior pics hiding anywhere. I sent him a PM when I saw the original post a while back but never heard back.