Well guys, I have come across an MCI 5 that I hope to look at next week. If its something I can make work this could be the one. What I know so far is this Bus might have never been a seated coach. The seller says its an older conversion and has sat for quite some time. He was told it originally belonged to Mel Tillis, but nothing proof positive. Its a bunk bus, so maybe just for band members. The seller really knows nothing more about it, I will have to figure out the rest on my own. And myself, I know didly squat about a -5, I dont know if I have even even seen one in person. There are tons of sites telling me what to look for on a 7-8-9, but nothing about a -5.
I dont yet know what engine or gearbox it has, and neither does the seller ("its a diesel"), but I am assuming 8V71 w/4 speed manual. Many of you know I have a heck of hill to climb to get up to my house, so I am not sure this big old dude can make it with the 4 speed, but installing a 7 speed is doable if need be and I could park it off site for a bit till I can alter it. At any rate, I have a feeling I can make it so we wont talk about that for now.
So onward through the fog...I know these are said to have rust issues. Does anyone know where to look to see if its a problem? Any site I can go to that describes where to look and what to check?
I know enough to check the big stuff, steering slop, look for integral steering, etc., but a good primer on a -5 would be very helpful. I'll get more information from the seller, but if y'all have any specific questions I should ask I am all ears. I dont want to get my hopes up, but I am kind of excited to see it. Heres a pic.
5s are great buses.
Most of them came with 8V71/4 speed Spicer. That is geared fairly high and won't make it up your hill.
My 5C with 6V92/HT740 is great and will go up a cliff.
I don't know if there is enough room in a 5 to fit a 7 speed.
Check for rust on the frame at the front in the spare tire compartment. Check the frame and cradle around the engine. Also up above the engine around the rads. It will have rust below the windows because they always leak.
You can fix anything if you get it for the right price.
JC
Art that looks like a 5A. Most did have the 8V-7 with a Spicer 4spd. Some were changed Like mine to 654 or 648's Automatics.
Mine is a Saudi Bus 5C so it only has the 6V-71 but the a's have the eights.. I agree below the windows if they are original which they look like yo will have rust depending on were it has been. You can tel by looking down the side to see if it is wavy or not or look for big spots bubbling paint etc.
Check front for rotted air bags if t has been sitting. Engine compartment up where blowers are will probably have some rust. Have someone check the drop box at the rear end if you can. They are very expensive to fix and or replace. Check wiring in side river outside panel. Is there a lo of disconnected wires or broken etc.
Bay rubber door seals and hinges springs or lifts. They are good coaches and only 35 feet.
Dave
I'm not for sure but that looks just like the one that sold a few years back on the MCI'RS web site. I'll do some research
and post later. I too have a 5, 5B great bus so far.
Steve 5B.....
Ive heard many references to drop boxes, but I dont really know what it exactly refers too. Can someone clue me in? show a pic? Any way around it? I'm not opposed to working on it if its reasonably salvageable, but if its got too much going on I'll pass on it. It has some fuel leak in the head or something, said a guy told him something like $400 to fix it, but it starts and runs. The stuff mentioned so far dont scare me. Air bags dont scare me. But frame rot scares me.
Would I be looking for the same kind of issues that plague the MCI 8's and 9's? I was looking on Bus 101, they show places to look for rust, up above the bay doors, the bolts coming through the floor, the spare tire bay.....
The MCI 5 and the 96A2 were the only MCIs with the dropbox. Picture the rear axle facing forward like a truck, then bolt on a gear box over the pinion shaft. So the drivshaft connects to the rear end above and drivers side of the axle. Moves the connection to the rear end forward by a foot and a haft? The engine and trans set at a slight angle. Goodluck
I have some good photos of a drop box and a line drawing from MCI of the same (which I can post when I have access to them). I had a 5a (8V71 and Spicer 4-Speed).
I would agree with the stated ratio of first gear being too fast for a steep incline, and backing up an incline is even worse. You can't rely on slipping the clutch to make up for the gearing unless you like replacing clutches.
I know about the drop box all too well, as the failure of mine was the deciding factor in me scrapping the bus. I was initially given prices of $500-$1700 for the parts, but when I went to execute on that I found that $4k-$10k in parts was more realistic. I spent $1200 to have the failed dropbox removed, and re-installation would have been that amount again. Additional costs which I didn't get quoted would be to have the axle carrier flushed and axle bearings re-packed.
In a Post-Mortem, it was determined that I did not have any leaks or externally measurable bearing play - and it was suggested that a bearing 'just failed'. This sent debris into the drop box which tore up three gears which comprise the drop-box, and it is assumed that the pumpkin was also affected.
The other issue which I had was locating a windshield for the bus. I received very reasonable prices on the windshields from many sources, however when I went to order the glass I was told it was no longer available (I didn't even have luck finding used glass). I was told that if it was a 5b or 5c then the glass would be obtainable.
I will say that the bus was enjoyable to drive and easily maneuverable. I don't mean to scare anyone away from a 5a (IMO a very nice looking bus) based on my experiences but would like to share my perspective. Perhaps some of the eagle owners or other 5 owners can share the best methods of preventing failure of the drop box.
I did replace the 5a with a 9 (6V92T/HT740) and have noticed that there is considerably more room in the engine/trans area to work.
Been reading your posts on your driveway and decided to post my to cents , you said something about a 20 percent incline on your drive way, well i have a 4106 GM and never could do it with the 4 speed, my drive is 22percent for 90 ft, as soon as i put in the 730 tranney, was amaved at its performance in climbing, i guess that why they call it the GREAT MOUNTAIN CLIMBER. The draw back is i went from 9 miles per gallon to 7 , had my bus for 25 years and pretty well attached to it. Thats my to cents worth.
The only reason I said check out the drop box was because you said it had been sitting a long time. Whats a long time and is the rust setting in and or why is it sitting as is the drop box already gone and to expensive to fix or is it worth taking a cover off and having someone check it out or if it is running drive it up on a ramp block and then jack up the drive wheel and see if it spins or needs some attention or doesn't move at all frozen. Are the bearings needing replacing. Just makes me wonder why it has been there doing nothing.
The reason the 5C's are easier to find parts especially for the front is because that part was fashioned after an MC 8 caps front luggage bay doors although 1 less and larger doors. but they lift straight up instead of hinged like 5A's. The only difference is less SS on the C's which I like better on the A's.
Ed H is a great source to ask about a 68 5A he has a nice one!
Art if the guy said it was Mel Tillie's Bus just Start the motor and see if it Stuttersssss sis sis sis
Dave 8)
A fuel leak in the head is probably from the fuel pipes to the injectors. Not hard to fix. The problem is, the fuel goes into the oil and if the engine has been run for any lenght of time like that, the rod and crank bearings will be shot. If you like the bus, have an oil sample analyzed. Take a look at the bearings. You can replace bearings and fuel pipes for less than $1000, plus labor.
JC
From what i have been told the windshields are the same as in the 7 and are available from MCI for $250 each. A few years ago a now deceased 5 owner lost his dropbox here in Yuma and it took a while, but he got it rebuilt or replaced in El Centro CA. for about $4000 if i remember right. If i had to replace my 5 for any reason, my first choice would be another 5. ;D
Ed, I think the 8 has the same windsheilds as the 5. Tom Y
If critical parts are that difficult to get even though the manufacture still makes buses I would stay away from it. This is a good example where even though GM is no longer making buses, you can still get parts for them thanks to the fact that so many transits where built using the same components over several decades. I need to measure the grade on my driveway. It is very steep, twisty and long. It would at least give me an idea of what my bus has to pull and might help others who are having the "which bus will get up my driveway" question.
Tom I know for a fact the 8 will fit the B and C don't know about the A's though. The front are more curved I think may be wrong.
Dave
Its probably best to say 18% for just over 100 feet. After I rework the entrance I am hoping to be able to run at it at a pretty good clip, like wound out on the governor in low gear. If I can get past that it levels off to 11-14% which shouldnt be any problem. Anyway, I just am not going to worry about that for now.
I dont know why it was sitting. Why do any of these sit? I think maybe they are intimidating to most people, and except for a Bus nut the rest of the world wont even try to move one. One a Bus nut parks one, only another Bus nut might feel confident enough to do anything with it. Its like some big wierd airplane. OMG, it doesnt have a key? What to do, what to do, lol.
Sitting a long time could let things like rings and pinions and transmission gears rust on the topside. Though I would tend to think that problem increases as you travel north, more than south. If there is a cover on the differential drop box, how hard is it to drop it?
Someone put some money into this 5-A. Overpriced for the market, but a very good looking bus:
1966 MCI 5-A (35') Bus Conversion - part trade/contribution possible - $35500 (http://roseburg.craigslist.org/rvs/2134572450.html)
This MCI 5-A has a fresh overhaul on its Detroit diesel 6V-92 engine (350 hp). Only 300 miles since the overhaul. Additional features include King cruise control, air leveling, 740 Allison automatic, E-Z Lift compartment doors, Alcoa aluminum wheels, 10 Trojan golf cart batteries, Toyo tires with 95% remaining, five 100 watt solar panels, 7 KW Kohler generator.
This bus conversion has a 12" raised roof, and was converted in 1992. It has been conscientiously maintained and updated, with a new stove, new refrigerator, new carpet, has built in vacuum system, and has a 3 cubic foot freezer on board. There is a queen bed in rear of bus. There are awnings all around, and the window are tinted. It has been recently professionally painted. This bus also has all the usual stuff you'd expect to see on a nice bus conversion.
We are selling our bus because we've bought a home and just aren't using the bus. Too much to do around our 40 acres!! It is a beautiful bus and runs great. We would take a part trade of a nice 3/4 or 1 ton pickup, possibly with a small nice trailer. We would also consider trade for silver or gold bullion or coins. We are also offering this bus as a partial donation to a charitable organization ($20,000 cash for the bus, and $15,500 donated for tax deductible donation) 541-499-7316
Since this is a 5-A thread:
MCI Bus conversion - $4850 (http://fresno.craigslist.org/cto/2162544880.html)
1966 MCI diesel bus conversion. I think it is about 35ft. Inside is in great condition, outside is good condition (for a bus), the engine runs well will start when you jump across the starter sylenoid. HAS: full size bed, 3/4 bath, stove, oven, refrigerator, table with extention, central vaccum, pull out couch, TV, small captain's chair, holding tanks for fresh water & sewer, head liner with lighting, two giant batteries (24 volt start), carpet, luggage doors for storage. It makes a great one room studio apartment. We moved to a bigger home and have need of some cash and not a guest house now. Call David (559) 641-6416. Clear title on non-op.
Quote from: lostagain on January 26, 2011, 04:47:54 PM
A fuel leak in the head is probably from the fuel pipes to the injectors.
JC
It sounded to me like a leaky pipe he said was up "near" the the head, not inside it, but I'll have to look and see for myself. But if I am going to make a decision on it, its the kinda thing I will probably make up my mind on after I inspect it, so I wont be able to do an oil analysis. I should be able to tell by the feel and smell of the oil if its been washed out with fuel to bad, and the oil pressure and sound of the motor should tell me if it has any bearings left.
The guy isnt asking a lot for it, so its not like I would be starting off to upside down even if it needed some major mechanical work. In fact I probably want a different gearbox anyway, so id pull the motor and do it up, etc....I'm much more worried about the chassis structure, rust etc.,and the other things that are more difficult to fix.
Did they all have integral steering by 1975?? Anything to look for up there??
Quote from: Dave5Cs on January 26, 2011, 08:56:24 PM
Tom I know for a fact the 8 will fit the B and C don't know about the A's though. The front are more curved I think may be wrong.
Dave
I guess I am confused about A's ,B's and C series. I thought A's came first, then B's, then C's. Being a 1975, I just assumed this was a 5C. Apparently I am mistaken if you guys are saying its an A. Is the year of this screwed up, or did they make all the different series over the production run? Can I assume the sunken windshield leaving a roof visor makes it an A?
Quote from: Barn Owl on January 26, 2011, 09:47:02 PM
Since this is a 5-A thread:
MCI Bus conversion - $4850 (http://fresno.craigslist.org/cto/2162544880.html)
I saw that one, and the $35K one too. The $35K one is beyond my means.
The other one is 1800 miles away. Thats just to big of a logistical nightmare right now. This one I plan to look at is almost in my back yard.
Back to this drop box thing. Do the 7's 8's and 9's have a drop box? I was poking around trying to find pictures or a manual, but cant find anything. Does it have to have a drop box, or is there a way around it?
MC-5's are good buses, I have one and I like it. Think of them as a shortened version of the MC7 or MC8, with the 5 feet taken out between the drive axle and the back of the bus. Not quite exact, they only have two bays, but really the buses are identical to the longer buses in a great many ways. 1975 is a 5B if I'm not mistaken, 5C's are 1978 to 1980. 5B's are a lot like MC-8 in terms of steering, etc, and they would not have an integral box normally, they would have the ram assist style of power steering. the MC-5 have the drop box, the other MCI's in that era did not. Eagles did, however. It's normally a strong, reliable unit. Space between the engine and the drive axle is the big difference, you need a short transmission to fit in there. I think a 7 speed with a really low first will probably fit in, but I have been unable to find a blueprint that really gives me accurate information on the size of the 7 speed. Working out the clutch and shift linkage would be achievable but not trivial.
Basically MCI's are good solid buses, a lot of stainless steel inside and out, some rust issues that you can look for, but they made a ton of them and parts availability is as good as for any bus.
Brian
To answer a few of your questions; The 5A was made from 64-70. The B was made from 71-77. The C was made from 77-80. So the one you are looking at could be a B or a C. The C has a front end which looks like an 8, (roof has a little hump above the door) 200 Cs also have a double roof as they were modified to go to Saudi Arabia. These were brought back after about 10 years. The drop box is necessary because of the 35' length. The good news though is that the boxes are fairly tough and that some of the Eagles also used the same box so as they, ummm, rust away, donor boxes are available. ;D
Well i was typing at the same time as Brian, i see we said about the same thing but i made a mistake. I thought you said it was a 77 you were looking at. A 75 will be a 5B.
Hey, if it's a "B'' it's one of only 350 built. I have one and have always wondered why they only built that many.
Steve 5B.....
I assume there is a data plate somewhere with a chassis number specifying the year, model and chassis number. Ive been inside a handful of MCI's, the last -8 I was in I really looked for a plate around the cockpit area but couldnt find anything. Where is the plate?
So do i understand correctly, that the B's and C's windshield is same as -7's, -8's and up, and readily available??
The drop box again. Still havnt seen a picture of one after googling over an hour, but its amazing the stuff you see putting in the word "drop box". Do I understand correctly the pinion faces forward, toward the front of the Bus, with the whole housing facing forward, and a gear assembly goes up/over to a driveshaft that faces rearward, connecting to the main driveshaft? Is the engine really sitting at an angle? I thought they were perfectly fore and aft, longitudinally.
The drop box again, how difficult to inspect?
Again, ive looked for an operators or service manual, I dont believe ive ever seen a picture of the engine in a -5. Are they simular to the later models with the belt drive blower above the engine?
Power assist steering. I dont believe ive read anything negative about steering on a -5. Is this not a problem like it is on later models??
Sorry for all the newby questions, and I thank you all for your many answers and support. It makes the decision to try a bus a lot easier, and prevents a lot of misguided mistakes, when you can talk about them with others who been doing it a while.
Quote from: 5B Steve on January 27, 2011, 06:48:07 AM
Hey, if it's a "B'' it's one of only 350 built. I have one and have always wondered why they only built that many.
Steve 5B.....
One of 350 eh. Whats the difference between a B and a C??
Ok if you look at the front Side Clearance light the B's are rectangular and the A are bullet like with round lens same with the 3 in the middle A's are round and the B's are rectangular. So my fiends and Art this one you are looking at is definitely a 5B
Dave
B has the protruding lights at middle and the C does not. The lower front, at the door has the slanted SS like on the A's and the C is straight down all the way to the rub rail. C have pullout and lift up bay doors withcables and springs and I think the A and B's have lift up with lifts and hinges
Dave
Quote from: Dave5Cs on January 27, 2011, 07:14:18 AM
B has the protruding lights at middle and the C dos not. The lower front like at th door has the slanted SS and the C is straight down.
Dave
So they are virtually the same mechanically and structuraly, cargo doors etc., same parts fit both?
Yep in looking at Ed's (A)and Steve's (B ) and My 5C Saudi) picture of their coaches that was pretty obvious. Other than that I am sure there are other differences but don't see what it is unless they were side by side.
Dave
http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=D0U&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&q=MCI%20MC-5&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1269&bih=852 (http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=D0U&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&q=MCI%20MC-5&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1269&bih=852)
A's and B's have stainless steel siding up the the window line. C's have aluminium siding above the floor line, stainless below. Lots of other visual differences on the outside. the reason for the number built is that after 40 ft buses became the inter-city standard, the 35 ft buses where pretty much special order. Mine came from the Navajo Nation, in AZ, they run a municipal/intercity bus line and had around 20 MC-5C's. Notable on mine is zero structural rust, and only a very little surface rust in cubby holes and behind things, and the steering was upgraded to integral steering while in service. Mine had bifold doors and I installed a swing door from another 5C. Oddly, the opening in the bus was too small for the door by about 1/2", which caused me no end of grief but I got it on.
There are a ton of good MCI bus links in behind the pictures. If the link doesn't work, just Google MCI MC-5 and hit the "images" button at the upper left of the screen. There are a couple of 6's, a 12, some other models in the pictures as well. Also a resin model kit of the MC-5C that I have to find!
Brian
If you go to the section of everyones pictures, I believe mine (better look than what is posted in the profile) page 14 or 15
you can see a better picture. Thanks to Nick, he was able to post it for me.
Steve 5B......
Quote from: bevans6 on January 27, 2011, 07:53:30 AM
the steering was upgraded to integral steering while in service.
There are a ton of good MCI bus links in behind the pictures. If the link doesn't work, just Google MCI MC-5 and hit the "images" button at the upper left of the screen.
Brian
Do you have to do a lot of refab work to install integral steering, or is it a bolt in? I saw something on some MCI and it looked rather involved. How bad is the integral, sloppy and wandery??
Trust me, ive typed in MCI 5, MC-5, etc., just aint seeing a lot of the inner workings. We need Bus porn.
Quote from: 5B Steve on January 27, 2011, 08:06:34 AM
If you go to the section of everyones pictures, I believe mine (better look than what is posted in the profile) page 14 or 15..
I'll go check it out, thanks.
Paul~
I put some dropbox pics on the dropbox topic. Hope that helps. Tom Y
Quote from: Tom Y on January 27, 2011, 01:33:15 PM
I put some dropbox pics on the dropbox topic. Hope that helps. Tom Y
Thank you, that does answer many of my questions about it. May I assume a guy could pull that cover off the front and see up inside??
I got some more pics from the seller. The clearance lights are all flush mounted. From what was posted earlier it sounds like a C model, but if they didnt make C's till 77, that dont make sense. Or, maybe its not a 1975.
Im waiting to hear back about the serial number, maybe someone will know where it came from.
Dont all the 5C's have the 6V71 or did they have the 8 also?
They could have either the 6V71 or the 8V71.
Upon further research, it is a B.
Does anyone know what gearboxes will fit a 5 with the 871? Is a 7 speed possible with a shortened drive shaft, or does it need a V6 to work?
With your driveway i would want an automatic instead of a stick. I would not have bought my 5 if it had a stick. Used to have sticks in all of my rigs for years, now everything i own is automatic. :) By the way i average 7.29 mpg with my 5, fully loaded, as we fulltime in the western U.S., and towing a 3800 lb. Jeep Wagoneer ;D
Quote from: Ed Hackenbruch on January 28, 2011, 05:55:41 AM
By the way i average 7.29 mpg with my 5, fully loaded, as we fulltime in the western U.S., and towing a 3800 lb. Jeep Wagoneer ;D
My understanding is the auto will only fit behind a V-6?
a 740 will fit behind a 6V, a 640 will fit behind an 8V, as far as automatics are concerned. The 640 is considered marginal for an 8V-71
Brian
So does anyone know if any other manual gearbox will go ahead of an 8V in something like this??
Paul -Quote from: artvonne on January 28, 2011, 04:01:39 PM
So does anyone know if any other manual gearbox will go ahead of an 8V in something like this??
Short answer - Maybe, but probably not.
Things are awfully tight back there on the MC-5s.
That's what happens when you stuff a T-drive into a 35-footer.
Later production MC-9s had a 5-spd manual available. Not sure if it's a Fuller or a Spicer, nor do I know the dimensions. Also not sure if 1st is a stump-puller or about the same as an 8844 4-spd.
If it's longer than the 8844, then you'd have to use a 6V. Not the 71 series tho, you'd need a 92. Now you get into not only the transmission swap, but also building the intake and exhaust system to offset the turbo, because there isn't room on top for it in a 5. AND - you'd have to upgrade the radiators to handle the additional heat load of the turbo engine.
Have we driven you crazy yet?? ;D
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: RJ on January 28, 2011, 07:25:36 PM
Short answer - Maybe, but probably not.
Have we driven you crazy yet?? ;D
Nahhh, I was already crazy, lol. I think you have to be crazy to consider a Bus as private transportation.
I assume the 6V92 over the 6V71, because the 6V71 is not so great, anemic, etc. ?
This off setting the turbo on a 6V92, does this use standard Detroit pieces, or all custom made stuff?
Are mci-8 radiators big enough to cool a -5 with a 6V92T?
Thanks for answering all my dumb questions RJ, and everyone else as well, it means a lot.
Art,
I have an MC-5A. I've pulled the 8V71 out; replaced the clutch; I've removed the dropbox to replace seals. Its all doable. The drop box project was a bugger because its cast iron full of gears and weighs about 200 pounds. Yes the engine is at an angle because the driveshaft shoots up over the drivers side top of the axle to the input of the dropbox. The axle faces forward as if the engine were up in front. Transmission options are the spicer or a 640 series Allison as long as you don't beat on it. Gearing on the spicer is really high; thats what I have. I think you'd like the automatic a lot better because of your driveway. Before you buy the coach you can check the oil in the rear end/drop box quite easily. If its got oil in it its probably OK. If it doesn't then you might be buying a case of troubles. I can tell you how to check that - real easy.
Regarding rust I don't think you have to worry about an MC-5 rusting and falling apart on the way to your favorite place to go. Rust around windows and back by the radiators is annoying but the wheels don't fall off. I guess the engine rails can be an issue but usually there is so much oil back there that the engines don't usually fall out of them. Its a great coach and the 35 ft length is kind of nice although I think turning radius on 7,8 9 is about the same; just a longer overhang front and rear.
If you pm me your email address I can send you pictures of the engine project and the drop box project or my phone number to discuss details.
Fred
Paul -
6V71 only pumps out 238 hp. 6V92TA can reliably put out 350. Your choice!
Some plumbing for the off-set is stock DD parts, some custom. Depends on where you put it. Most that I've seen have been on the driver's side.
Best to go with the MC-9's optional 8V92 radiators. Plenty of capacity in a 5.
For all this work to convert/upgrade, better to buy one already equipped.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
QuoteFor all this work to convert/upgrade, better to buy one already equipped.
Unless there is something that makes that bus outstanding then RJ is right. Money holes and headaches come with owning a bus as is. Making big changes to one only compounds the issue. If a 5 with an auto is what you would really like, wait it out, and you will find one cheaper than you can make one. Be careful not to get tunnel vision, it might cause you to jump to early.
Quote from: RJ on January 28, 2011, 08:47:01 PM
For all this work to convert/upgrade, better to buy one already equipped.
Where would the fun be in that?
Really just trying to see what my options are.
Fred,
When removing the dropbox, did you have a pit while doing this job ? Beyond the 200#, the box is sizable to remove. I looked at this and would have needed to remove the garage door opener drive/track to allow for the height the bus being jacked up to facilitate DB removal.
If you did this yourself, You da man ! I went to Luke & Bill for my DB rebuild.
Gotta save up for a set of those used hoists that grab each wheel, and then a set of jackstands...
for instance:
http://www.mohawklifts.com/wp/consumer/browse-lifts/mobile-column-lifts/mp_series/ (http://www.mohawklifts.com/wp/consumer/browse-lifts/mobile-column-lifts/mp_series/)
Check with the garage supply company in your neighbourhood for good used trade-ins.
And they'll pick up your car too!
The easier you make doing maintenance, the more likely it will get done...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: Barn Owl on January 28, 2011, 09:07:15 PM
QuoteFor all this work to convert/upgrade, better to buy one already equipped.
Unless there is something that makes that bus outstanding then RJ is right.
Okay, heres the deal. A GMC probably wouldnt make it up here, and the upgrades to make it do it are exceeding expensive and kill any fuel economy it had. We can argue about fuel economy, but its important to me. That leaves MCI's and Eagles. I want to utilise the air ride to create a leveling system, so Eagles are out. That leaves MCI's. I am fairly confident a 7, 8, or 9 would crank up here easily with a 5 or 7 speed box, and they are easy to find as well as affordable, but I really dont want that huge of a Bus. Sure, extra room is nice, but so is passing truck stops, carrying 2 less tires, and being able to turn it around. So ive been looking for a -5.
I dont know for sure if a -5 can crawl up here either. On paper it appears to have enough torque (4.25 or 4.30:1 in first/3.70:1 final drive, 700 foot pounds from the engine), but you can probably wipe with that paper for all its worth, proof is in the pudding. But these -5's arent exactly growing on trees either. The ones that you do see for sale are either very expensive with big power upgrades and nice conversion work, which I cant afford, or old originals like this that need some Bus Nut like me to try and make it go. I am simply looking for the simplest and most cost effective options to give it a bit more oomph if I need it. A gearbox with a lower first, perhaps a smog turbo, maybe even a shot of propane, are all reasonable options, but what if thats not enough and I really need lower gears? If the engine has to come out to swap gearboxes, and if a V6 would give me better gearbox options, then thats something I would consider. If I can get the Bus cheap enough, those options could make a lot of sense.
Ok, getting a better idea of what the plan is. How many miles on average will you be traveling a year?
Paul -
Just an FYI. . . The overall gear ratios for a stock GMC PD4106, 4107 or 4108 with the manual gearbox are as follows:
First = 10.39:1
Second = 6.73:1
Third = 4.03:1
Fourth = 3.33:1
Reverse = 8.86:1
The venerable 4104's ratios (with the stock rear axle) are:
1 = 12.87:1
2 = 8.33:1
3 = 4.99:1
4 = 4.125:1
R = 10.97:1
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: Barn Owl on January 29, 2011, 11:14:56 AM
Ok, getting a better idea of what the plan is. How many miles on average will you be traveling a year?
As far as I can afford to? A lot will depend on the future economy and fuel prices, but by the looks of the news lately, probably not as much as I would like to, if it goes back up over $4 this summer. less so if it really goes over $5 next year. Alaska someday? That would be cool. Over a 12000 mile trip to Alaska, a 2 mpg improvement could save between $2500, to $3500 at $6 gallon.
Gary -
I did it on the floor in my shop. removed the wheels; jacked up the bus about six inches; blocked it and we took the drop box out by rigging up a cable and attaching it to one of the bolts on the top of the case. Also rigged up a cradle to stabilize it on the floor jack from below. It was not easy. Re-installing it was not easy either but once we got it back into place one of my neighbors who is stronger than I gave it the final shove after we jacked it back into place.
Bus garages have a bracket they attach to a floor jack that bolts on to the drop box. That would have made it much easier.
Fred
Quote from: RJ on January 29, 2011, 05:50:12 PM
Paul -
Just an FYI. . . The overall gear ratios for a stock GMC PD4106, 4107 or 4108 with the manual gearbox are as follows:
Am I correct in believing a MC5 has 4.25:1, or 4.30:1 first, and 3.70 final drive, giving 15.75:1, or 15.91, respectively, overall?
Paul -
Yes
;)
Gearing and startability is an area that I have limited knowledge, so take my comments for what they may be worth.
When you look at truck gearing, the typical 10 speed has a low gear of between roughly 11-13:1. When you combine that with something like a 3.73 rear end, you can see that the overall gearing is over 40:1. That is for an over-the-road truck that often is operated at 80K. When you start talking about what I think they call vocational gearing (think dump trucks) the gearing can double that value.
Yes, we are half that weight, but something like 16:1 overall gearing is pretty marginal in my opinion.
Paul, your driveway is extremely steep and it sounds like you don't have a place to get a run at it. I really doubt that stock bus manual gearing will do the job.
I did some searching to find the link that Tom C often sites when startability issues come up, but I can't seem to find it. However, I did find two threads that might be of interest (one is one you started):
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=17432.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=17432.0)
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=16525.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=16525.0)
Jim
Fred,
I am sure the bracket makes all the difference in the world, otherwise you feel like balancing a bowling ball on a pin, with just a hyd jack. I was looking that I might be able to safely pull the DB, but getting it back in would be a different story.
BW,
I have spoken to a maint mgr for NJTransit, looking for units which they replaced. Not too fruitful as of yet. My rollup door is close to one side of the building but I believe I could make great use of the lifts.
For now it is a pair of 20T hyd jacks. I hope not to rebuild that DB, again, in my life time !!
Quote from: Gary '79 5C on January 30, 2011, 10:23:24 AM
I am sure the bracket makes all the difference in the world
Assuming the bracket bolts to that front cover, a piece of wide bar stock with a post welded to the bottom could fit a floor jack saddle hole.
Soooooo, I looked at a Bus today. Then I drove home mad. Cooled off on the way though...Thankfully I didnt let my anger boil over while I was talking to the seller. The guys know nothing about a Bus other than it has wheels and some kind of big engine.
The Ad said it had brand new batteries. Was told it ran recently, etc...
Soooooo, I go look at the darn thing...no batteries, they have no charger, no banana. I would have brought batteries and jumper cables if I knew it didnt have any, they were appologetic, thought someone stole them....Feels like a wild goose chase. Well I was there, so I might as well look.
The good:
MCI 5B. Its virtually all original, has all its original windows, original interior walls, original road AC, original Bus heat, everything appears intact and in good condition. Motor is very clean and looks like newish gaskets (not washed, but fresh assembled clean), engine compartment is clean, only real filth is some gook around the rear pulley, ground is clean where its sat for at least a year, radiators look solid, no rot in them and thelouvers are intact. no rust anywhere I can see, empty battery box looks solid. Has a panel in right rear behind cargo bay with a speedometer, it reads 75,000 miles?? Bays are clean, no visable rust anywhere, wood floor looked solid, doors are solid. Bus is straight, no warpage to outside walls, no sags, no sound of rust falling when banging side....I was getting steamed over the no battery/no way to start it thing so I stopped looking so much after a while...but while I was getting mad I opened the rear bay and saw an 8KW Isuzu 3 cyl diesel generator that looks newish. Big deal. I slamed the bay closed.
The bad:
Tires weather checked, muffler looks rusty, no tail pipe, wont run so cant tell anything about engine, air system, brakes, steering, xlutch, nothing. Belts are slipped off alternator, why I dont know, they dont know, assume its fried but it does spin. Air intake hose has a screwdriver stuck under lip like someone was trying to get it back on, but quit. The guys dont know anything about that either. Door control handle wont work door, door wont pull shut..guy said its air operated? Guess he knows something? I didnt know the door worked on air in an MCI, only know mechanical GMC doors. It has a band bus-bunk job-crapola interior with two roof airs and a sink. Just a sink. No crapper, tub, shower, frigde, or stove, just bunks and a couch and a sink, with button tufted cieling. cracked drivers side windshield. Well, it is 36 years old....
The Ugly:
Call me crazy but I like it. But he wants $5K and I think thats kind of nuts. I think he'll come down, but I dont want to be insulting either (even though im still miffed over the batteries). Im not afraid of working on it, reconverting it to what I want, I want to actually, and I really like that its heating and AC are all original . I just dont want to start off feeling burned from the start. I figure if I yank out the engine, pull the heads and check it over, new gaskets, seals, fix what it needs, yada yada, I wont have a lot into it and ill have a good reliable driver. My original thinking was if I saw it run and could drive it, to get it so I could safely drive it home. That would have required multiple trips, time, many unknowns, lots of risks, etc... Im thinking just having it towed/hauled would be best choice.
Sooo, whats an MCI-5 worth in cant start it up condition, with a newish (700 hrs) 8KW Isuzu 3 banger 1800 rpm liquid cooled genny?? Maybe with some batteries and a lil tinklering she'll take right off....Okay, tell me im nuts.
Paul -
You're nuts.
But who in this hobby isn't?
Hmmm. . . 8KW diesel genset?
Call Dick Wright @ Wrico (541-744-4333 in OR) and see what he says it's worth.
You may be able to buy the genset and get the bus for free!
A couple of Group 31's from Sam's Club should get it started - remember, it's wired for 24 volts.
Might be worth a second look? More calmly this time?
MCIs have an air-operated door lock that comes on when the manual handle over-centers to close the door. The mechanical portion is virtually identical to GMC's, has a turn-buckle adjustment up under the dash on the passsenger side. Little red knob on the end of a handle on the bottom of the dash by the driver's right knee controls the air lock. When operating, claw grabs door and pulls it tight to coach body. Mucho wind noise around door if air lock not engaged. Should have a plunger under the driver's side windshield, slightly below and to the left of the wiper arm, to open the door from outside.
Decisions, decisions.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
if he wants to sell it have him get the batteries. I have seen a lot of tough running buses with the screwdriver in the intake hose. I think its so they can squirt ether to start. Might be a 5K bus if it runs and drives. sounds like its not selling soon with no batteries. good luck.
FWIW I think it's probably worth about what the gennie is worth, couple - three grand maybe. I tell people who ask me to restore cars that if you get the car for free, you'll spend twice what it's worth building it. Same thing here. You'll need to get it running and driving to be able to assess it. That's your initial investment. After that you need to keep building. For me, at this level the price of the bus is almost irrelevant. Your decision has to be what else do I have to spend? In the greater scheme of things with bus conversions and actually using a bus conversion, $5K vs $3K to buy the actual bus is almost in the noise. I spent more than the difference in fuel on my first long trip.
The MC5B, stock (mine is modified) has an air cylinder that puts tension on the alternator belts. Should be four belts. If the engine is run for a while with no air pressure, I can see where the belts might come off.
Brian
As long as you keep in mind that it will cost more to convert that bus than you can buy one for already done. Last year we saw several nicely converted MC5s for 5 to 10k. Check out the archives. They pop-up, several a year.
If it was completely out of air from sitting, and couldnt build air due to some defect, how long would it run before it threw the alt belts?
If the door is mechanical with an air lock, then something is obviously disconnected because the door control does nothing and the door swings free.
I could assume someone removed something in an attempt to make a repair, the dash panel is pulled off and set aside. Could disconnecting the door lock air lines cause a large enough air leak the compressor couldnt build pressure?
If I go back... where is the best place to apply air to the system so I can check/plug leaks? It does look like a good generator with a free Bus deal.
Is there a battery switch/disconnect? I didnt see anything in the battery bay, but I didnt look for a switch, I was staring at the missing batteries.
Is there anywhere to find a service/operator manual? Ive looked online and came up empty handed. I found lots of stuff for GMC's but nothing for MCI's.
Check out http://www.coachinfo.com/Manuals/Coach/MCI/MCI.html (http://www.coachinfo.com/Manuals/Coach/MCI/MCI.html)
They have manuals for most bus makes. They are on CD though. I have a hard copy for a 5A and it is pretty good. It's a copy and the pics are not very clear. Maybe the digital version is better.
Hard to assess a coach when you don't know what you are looking at.
Any busnuts nearby that can come and help?
Yes, anything in the air system that is disconnected will defeat the compressor. A hole the size of a primary pencil is all you need to defeat it, never mind a loosened off line.
Alternator will throw belts really easily, especially if the alternator was installed slightly off and the engine was revved up with no air pressure. And especially for sure, if they have bypassed the air pressure inhibit, and there was a load applied to the alternator with no pressure on the belts.
However, under the circumstances, be very suspicious.
It is a good sign that it spins.
As long as the door closes properly, hinges are there and straight, there are busnuts that disconnect it from the dash handle, install their own latching, and just leave the air lock to pull it tight for driving.
Speedo down the back will be a tachograph, irrelevant mileage information.
Don't go helping the seller by finding things right with the coach. They don't care, neither do you.
My bet is they have little to nothing in the coach, otherwise they'd be more motivated.
Don't worry about insulting anyone, that's not how salespeople are wired, that's how gullible future bankrupt busnuts are wired.
As it sits, it is worth scrap money, with a used generator of unknown background in the bay for ballast, minus towing costs to the scrap yard.
You may have stumbled on busnut gold!
Who lives near art???
happy coaching!
buswarrior
The battery disconnect switch switches plus 24 volts, and is located at the front corner of the forward luggage bay on the passenger side. Open the bay door, make sure it won't fall down and decapitate you, and stick your head in and look forward.
If for some reason the alternator got turned on (it's field coil is controlled by an air pressure switch so that it should not be charging until the air pressure is up and the belts are tight) while the belts are loose, the belts will burn off in about a minute. they have to be really tight to transfer enough power to the alternator to supply the initial current rush to charge the batteries after a cold start.
Brian
Quote from: buswarrior on February 15, 2011, 07:44:16 AM
Hard to assess a coach when you don't know what you are looking at.
Yes, anything in the air system that is disconnected will defeat the compressor. A hole the size of a primary pencil is all you need to defeat it, never mind a loosened off line.
Thats what I was thinking. I doubt they saw it raise, its just another "story".
[/quote]Alternator will throw belts really easily, especially if they have bypassed the air pressure inhibit, and there was a load applied to the alternator with no pressure on the belts.
It is a good sign that it spins.[/quote]
Is there any top access through the floor on these Buses? Looks pretty tight back in there. Where is the inhibit switch?
[/quote]As long as the door closes properly, hinges are there and straight, there are busnuts that disconnect it from the dash handle, install their own latching, and just leave the air lock to pull it tight for driving. [/quote]
Door swings fine and has a dead bolt lock. Maybe thats the way they wanted it...
[/quote] Speedo down the back will be a tachograph, irrelevant mileage information.[/quote]
Thought something like that. Mileage means nothing on a 36 year old vehicle. Less is usually worse than more.
[/quote]Don't go helping the seller by finding things right with the coach. They don't care, neither do you.
My bet is they have little to nothing in the coach, otherwise they'd be more motivated.[/quote]
I never help a seller running a car lot. A private guy who is honest but in way over his head, yes, ive been known to help and not take advantage. But anyone selling cars has no business not knowing how to figure stuff like this out, or hiring someone who does.
[/quote]As it sits, it is worth scrap money, with a used generator of unknown background in the bay for ballast, minus towing costs to the scrap yard.[/quote]
Wrico didnt want to comment much on a Genny they didnt build, said $200 plus, gotta see it run, make juice, thats about how I looked at it.
[/quote]You may have stumbled on busnut gold![/quote]
Or a turd in a candy wrapper? The guy just called...appologised, wanted to work a deal...I made an offer...hes gotta ask "the BOSS". ticktickticktick...............
[/quote]happy coaching!
buswarrior [/quote]
Thank you, and everyone here as well, it really means a lot. And I really do mean that.
Quote from: bevans6 on February 15, 2011, 07:57:58 AM
If for some reason the alternator got turned on (it's field coil is controlled by an air pressure switch so that it should not be charging until the air pressure is up and the belts are tight) while the belts are loose, the belts will burn off in about a minute. they have to be really tight to transfer enough power to the alternator to supply the initial current rush to charge the batteries after a cold start.
Brian
The belts look fine, just not on the pulleys. Thanks again, the information is painting a much clearer picture of a major air leak.
May I assume the 4 belts are sold in a matched set??? Or can O'rielly give me 4 that will work?
Ideally a matched set of belts from Luke or another supplier, but I've used four belts off the shelf before, in a pinch. The floor access is in the middle of the floor at the back of the bus, two panels, one actually in the floor, the other in the shelf across the back. About a foot square or so. I have no idea what an "inhibit switch" is so I can't help you there.
Brian
Isuzu is a really good engine. I have an Isuzu powered back up generator at home.
I like MC5s myself, but even if you could get it cheap: $2 or 3000, are you sure you want to spend untold amount of time and money building a conversion, when you could buy one already converted?
JC
Any 4 belts from the same manufacture will work no such thing as a matched set all you are buying when people say matched set is BS
good luck
I agree with Clifford on the belts, but you do have to watch out. When I was scrambling around Halifax trying to buy the belts, I got three from one manufacturer and one from another, and the odd one was a tiny bit different in size. the thing is of the three from the same manufacturer, two were made by one supplier and one was obviously a different supplier, and they were a tiny bit different in size as well. So that is what you have to watch out for, and it makes no sense to argue with parts guys when you are already going to three different stores to buy the belts in the first place.... What I did is put the two that seemed a tiny bit smaller on one end of the pulley and the two that seemed a tiny bit longer on the other end, and when I tighted the belts up with the turnbuckle I got the shortest two tight, loosened the mounts on the alternator and pried it a tiny bit off-angle so they were all the same tightness. that worked fine for a thousand miles to get home. For me all "matched" means is the same supplier, and preferably the same batch, even.
Brian
Quote from: lostagain on February 15, 2011, 10:53:18 AM
Isuzu is a really good engine. I have an Isuzu powered back up generator at home.
I like MC5s myself, but even if you could get it cheap: $2 or 3000, are you sure you want to spend untold amount of time and money building a conversion, when you could buy one already converted?
JC
Yeah, I would rather buy and drive. But what I like I cant afford, and what I can afford I dont often like or its in Seattle or somewhere equally far away. 2000 miles is a long ways to go to look at something you probably dont want. And y'all have convinced me I'll probably end up inside the engine anyway, I might as well just rebuild it off the get go and be done with it. We'll see, I havnt heard back yet, so maybe they are thinking there is a bigger sucker out there than me.
There is another -5 down in Texas, used to belong to Barbara Mandrell supposedly. Still waiting to hear back about that one. Then there is another -5 up in Illinois, but thats almost 500 miles away and its an entertainer layout, so I would still have to redo it. Sigh... I built and repaired campers when I was young, its not really that hard, and I know what I dont like.
Art,
I sent you a PM.
Fred
Okay guys, we all know were nuts, or why would we be here? But there is nuts, really nuts, and just plain nuts. Just how nuts would I be to pay $4500 for this turd?
RJ?
Any change from previous status, still no idea if it even runs? totally and completely nuts. Sorry. If it can't be demonstrated to run and drive, and evaluate systems, it's worth nothing, to me anyway.
On the other hand, i don't understand your goals, only you really can. If you want a bus to drive around in, get one that drives. If you want a bus to camp and tour in, get a converted one that drives. If you want a bus to work on and play with, get anything that makes you happy. If you can't or don't want to afford what you really want or need, don't buy anything. Honestly, a converted bus these days isn't something to sneak into, you need to either be in, or not be in.
Brian
I suppose anyone asking if their nuts is bound to get a lot of positive answers, lol. Especially asking other nuts.
Brian, I used to salvage Buses for scrap, so from my perspective they have value even without a motor or axles. However, I wrecked enough Buses to know better than to try that again. But we can still start with its scrap value. I believe one of these is worth around $1000 in scrap, not including the engine. I dont think it would be hard to find someone crazy enough to haul away the shell for at least that much.
All I can say from there is I see potential. Its a clean and straight rust free shell that has all the original heating and AC systems that are unmolested. It has an 8KW Isuzu Generator that looks brand new. The engine is extremely clean. Not washed in place, but more like it was installed clean and painted into a clean bay. Dont know how long its sat, but at least it was in good shape when parked.
My other feeling, is I look all over the US at Buses, and I read a lot, maybe too much. Too many Buses getting overhauls after paying good money. To many conversions that are half baked. Not many clean and unmolested shells out there you can start from scratch with. Plus its in my backyard.
Artvonne, I'm with you! I too see the value in it, but the risk of it not actually being able to run is so great. My repower is going to cost me close to $5k by the time I am done, and that is with me doing 100% of the work and the new engine costing $2K. The thousand dollar bills just fly out of your wallet, it seems! $4500 is only $500 less than they were asking when they said it ran, had new batteries, etc!
What I had in mind, frankly, is the incremental cost you MIGHT incur with towing, delivery charges, etc, over and above. that is what scared me. It sound like, with your experience, you have that covered. Therefore maybe you are only a little nuts!
Brian
Quote from: bevans6 on February 18, 2011, 10:53:23 AM
What I had in mind, frankly, is the incremental cost you MIGHT incur with towing, delivery charges, etc, over and above. that is what scared me. It sound like, with your experience, you have that covered. Therefore maybe you are only a little nuts!
Brian
If it was any farther away I never would have gone and looked at it. Looks like we need a coin operated nut-so-meter around here, lol.
Quote from: bevans6 on February 18, 2011, 10:53:23 AM
Artvonne, I'm with you! Therefore maybe you are only a little nuts!
Brian
Brian, if it were any father away I wouldnt have ever considered it. Looks like we need a coin operated nut-so-meter around here. Y'all have $1000 bills flying out the door and Buses up on jacks getting overhauled engines. Any sane person would run for the hills.
Actually, I went to the RV show the other day and saw what my 125 grand would buy me. I am very very happy with my $30K bus... Plus I just happen to have a jones for driving a bus ;D RV, not so much, I'd have to buy some pants that came up to my armpits and a matching belt and shoes set... There is indeed extreme value in a bus, if you look at it just right and squint...
I would one up calling you nuts, and instead call you crazy if you bite it for that. If it is not running it is not going to be sold anytime soon for $4500 IMO. You need to start playing some good poker with the overly optimistic owner and don't let the desire to have a bus give away your hand. You have mentioned one of the positives of this bus is that it still has it's factory air setup. That is the first thing most converters get ride of because it is a black hole attached to an already big money hole. If I remember correctly you are on a budget, so you need to price 30 pounds of R-12 and decide if it is really that important. BTW most old buses don't hold freon very well so keep that in mind also. I know you want a bus asap, but a little patience will pay off big for you if you allow it. Get the bus running and if it checks out ok then work on the seller some more. We are cheering for ya!
QuoteNot washed in place, but more like it was installed clean and painted into a clean bay.
Not saying this is the case with this one, but some buses have had a "paint can rebuild". Take your time and check everything twice.
With a background in antique/collectible cars, I can appreciate a good, clean, straight, original body.
If you like the bus, go back with $2,500 or $3,000 in $100 bills. Hold it out and say "I've got $3,000 I can give you for the bus right now" (or whatever you want to offer) and see what happens. I bet he sells it to you. If nothing else, it will shake his best price out of him. $500 off is nothing. Offer low and don't worry about insulting anybody. Didn't you see that turn-key converted running, driving MC5 out west for $5K?
Be bold, CASH IS KING.
FWIW the general feeling around here is to offer about 1/3 of the asking price and go from there. Right now, it is really only worth about scrap price since it does not run. The "new motor" adds little or no value unless the rebuild can be accurately documented. There are many sellers both private and professional that will be less than truthful just to make the sale. Check out the archives here and you can see for yourself. Maybe you should consider an offer of $1000 as it sits and if the owner can show that it runs then you can adjust the price accordingly. As the prospective buyer, you are in control here since you can walk away at any time.
I am all about offering low, but I do think you need to consider the value of the Isuzu generator and the overall excellent condition of the body. That could be a good indicator of how it was treated overall. Also there is the personal appeal this one seems to have to you. Art, I have been watching, and you have been willing to dispassionately write off a lot of buses that seemed like good deals on the surface.
$1,000 would be a slap in the face and he might not talk to you again. It would just piss me off. Buses are cheap right now, but there are still relatively few of that vintage that are truly straight and clean. I do put some value on that where perhaps some people do not. I say don't shoot yourself in the foot over a grand or two. Compared to the entire project,that will be chump change.
Marc
Quote from: thejumpsuitman on February 19, 2011, 05:58:51 AM
I am all about offering low, but I do think you need to consider the value of the Isuzu generator and the overall excellent condition of the body. That could be a good indicator of how it was treated overall. Also there is the personal appeal this one seems to have to you. Art, I have been watching, and you have been willing to dispassionately write off a lot of buses that seemed like good deals on the surface.
$1,000 would be a slap in the face and he might not talk to you again. It would just piss me off. Buses are cheap right now, but there are still relatively few of that vintage that are truly straight and clean. I do put some value on that where perhaps some people do not. I say don't shoot yourself in the foot over a grand or two. Compared to the entire project,that will be chump change.
Marc
If you ask 100 people the same question, youll likely get 100 different answers. If your only looking for someone to agree with you, and wait until someone does, and if you then use that answer to support your theory, then you probably didnt need to ask anyone in the first place, your just going to do what you want anyway.
Honestly, I do put value on that Generator....If the Gen is worth $3K, which I believe it is, then the Bus is only $1500. Like you say, not a big factor in the grander scheme of things. At least I didnt think so.
Quote from: artvonne on February 19, 2011, 10:46:02 AM
If you ask 100 people the same question, youll likely get 100 different answers. If your only looking for someone to agree with you, and wait until someone does, and if you then use that answer to support your theory, then you probably didnt need to ask anyone in the first place, your just going to do what you want anyway.
Honestly, I do put value on that Generator....If the Gen is worth $3K, which I believe it is, then the Bus is only $1500. Like you say, not a big factor in the grander scheme of things. At least I didnt think so.
One thing is for sure, it's your money, and you are the one who will be fixing/using it, none of us. So ultimately it's all on you as far as the decision goes. You posted looking for opinions, and you certainly have no shortage of them to consider if you want... Or reject them all, that's your prerogative.
But I don't necessarily like the logic as of assessing the value of a bus by itemizing it's positive attributes... Unless you are buying it to part out. If it had brand new tires, would that make it worth $3,000 more? No. That is the way a seller likes to think, not a savvy buyer.