I might be interested in picking up where this guy left off. Anybody seen it? He said it's was owned by the State of Maine, so rust might be an issue. If it's not rusty, I might have a go at it.
MCI BUS FOR SALE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lyTlTN-sjg#)
Here is the Craigslist ad for it..
http://maine.craigslist.org/rvs/2121221760.html (http://maine.craigslist.org/rvs/2121221760.html)
It does look like a lot of bus. I'd ask about the air leak.... sound pretty big. Could be air bags/beams. Didn't see the generator??? Looks like it may have some rust issues.
TOM
The problem with buying a partial is that there is lot of critical steps that are the first you take. To accomplish this as a "recovery" you will have to rip out all that has been done and then fix the problem and then rebuild. It is most often easier to start at the beginning and that certainly will take less time and effort. So much for philo 101.
There is a "return air duct" built into the bus and it runs down the center and under the floor. Most buses have the floor removed as a part of the conversion so that this "horrifically fouled and trash infested" area can be "shoveled out" then vaced and finally pressure washed. And then the new floor is installed. This can be done by carefully cutting a section out of the center isle but I don't think many have done it that way. If you don't do this you will find that in humidity the interior will reek of mildew and worse. Think Gym Locker.
The walls have square tubing in them as frame. The water that collects on the windows interior seems to be ducted down the inner surface of the tubes and they rust away where they are welded to the floor. That is inside the wall, mind you. I have only seen pics of one bus that had almost zero rust and even that one had a couple braces welded in. Usually there is much of the framing that needs to be cut out and replaced. This can only be done with the interior wall covering removed.
INSULATION Notice I raised my voice? That was no accident. The absolutely very best is the minimum acceptable. That means closed cell sprayed in foam. Polyiso foam board backed with alu is a close second but doesn't have the sound deadening performance of sprayed. The floor gets an inch of foam board under the plywood for an added 7. Without this you can only use the bus in temperate climes. The original bus had a Godzilla sized AC unit that would cool in Phoenix but you don't have that system and you couldn't afford to run it full time if you did.
AC There is no way that a single ac unit will cool that bus. You need two 15K BTU min and you should have three so you have a "hot spare". Also a third will draw down the temp when you first get home and you can run two at the far end of the bus to make it quieter at the front or vice verse.
That bus looks to be powered by a 8V71 N engine. That will mean that almost any hill will drop your speed to 35. Good engine and you will get decent mpg but a powerhouse it ain't in that bus.
Tires MUST be newer than 8 years old. Over that and they are truly a hazard. Regardless of the depth of the tread.
Now this might surprise you but I suggest that you buy the bus. Looks clean and if the state owns it it gets really really good care. Especially in Maine. Correct me if I am wrong but they don't use salt up there. Get a qualified mech to evaluate the engine and trans. When you figure your bid just adjust it for stripping it out and fixing stuff and then you will have the value of the shell. Lets see now....that would be $12K minus 14K is.....oh dear, he will pat you $2K to drive it away. :o Just kidding.
HTH and welcome to the madness. Hope you get your bus soon....whatever it is
John
Brings back memories of my first MCI 8. would make a good starting piece for someone . There is $8 grand worth of conversion materials there and basic systems just need finishing. Did notice rear drivers not matched would need to measure circumference and make sure roll out is within 3/4 inch. It also had air scoops on radiators. good straight body and clean appearance. Wheel well trim missing on rear. Bob
The OSB board on the walls and floors would be a deal killer for me that stuff is pretty bad also looks to me like he laying tile on top without backer board.
good luck
What do you want for 8000. ???????
Still seems like a great deal to me. Allison automatic, new drive tires, low miles... It's un-done enough to change some things, yet well on it's way if you want to proceed. I happen to like the floor plan layout. Hope he did use backer board. The owner is understandably frustrated with losing money. He said he paid $9k for it a couple years ago and spent about $5k on it.
I'm sure you posted this for feed back of all kinds.
FWIW I noticed the front Rims are mis- matched.
That could be a unusual story usually is. :)
Well looks like it's worth it to me bur Hell I don't know much lol Go for it
Quote from: JohnEd on January 18, 2011, 02:57:33 PM
The walls have square tubing in them as frame. The water that collects on the windows interior seems to be ducted down the inner surface of the tubes and they rust away where they are welded to the floor. That is inside the wall, mind you. I have only seen pics of one bus that had almost zero rust and even that one had a couple braces welded in. Usually there is much of the framing that needs to be cut out and replaced.
John
Rust???? on an MCI??? You guys always let me believe it was only Eagles. :o :o :o ;D
Quote from: white-eagle on January 18, 2011, 07:42:26 PM
Quote from: JohnEd on January 18, 2011, 02:57:33 PM
The walls have square tubing in them as frame. The water that collects on the windows interior seems to be ducted down the inner surface of the tubes and they rust away where they are welded to the floor. That is inside the wall, mind you. I have only seen pics of one bus that had almost zero rust and even that one had a couple braces welded in. Usually there is much of the framing that needs to be cut out and replaced.
John
Rust???? on an MCI??? You guys always let me believe it was only Eagles. :o :o :o ;D
Well they do indeed use salt in Maine... unless something has changed since I moved away. (Grew up there) They really have no choice, do they? But man was it hard on cars back in the old days before undercoating! Everything would rust away in Maine, even wood! ;D
Things I noticed;
Residential house wiring. should be 100% multistrand wire in a motor vehicle.
Looks like surface rust under paint around backs of radiators.
Big air leak.
Particle board.
Looks like it has all the original windows and just paneled over interior walls, hack job around rear bedroom windows. And if he just paneled over, possibly walls were never opened up and inspected, repaired, or reinsulated.
Looks like he passed by real fast looking at subframe around rear wheels, might mean nothing.
It looked like he was going to open the lower front access door, then changed his mind. Might wanna peek in there.
As others have said, lots of equipment you can re-use, but its all used and likely no warrantee. What would an RV center pay you for that equipment? Not retail. And not wholesale new either. I would value the appliances at
< $1K, but weigh that against the work of R&Ring the interior.
You really do not want residential wiring and particle board Electrical fire danger + formaldehyde.
You have to ask yourself, do you dig the layout? If you approach it with the idea you need to tear it all out and start over with all new wiring and paneling, a fresh Bus would probably be a better deal at the price he's asking. Thats how I looked at it when I first saw it.
Hope you're short if you buy this bus. With the side hall way, I doubt you'd have much more then 5'10" of headroom. Also, it is a big waste of space. But-it's cheap at least. Good Luck, TomC
The biggest appeal of this bus is that my wife perked up when she saw the layout and got excited. And the fact it's an automatic. She enjoys driving our current bus and that works out fine because I enjoy being a passenger. ;D She has pretty much stated plainly that she is not going to drive a straight drive bus. And yes, I am short... What of it?... ::) LOL
As good as the deal is on this bus, it isn't the best deal I've found. If it was just me, I'd be making an offer on a local MC5 with a new engine that was left to a lady by her father. She dropped from $8500 to $5000 immediately and I feel I could probably get it for less than that. It's an old Custom Coach with a big diesel generator and alcoas but needs tires and the paint is faded. But My wife just doesn't like that one at all for some reason. As mysterious as it is to me what she does and doesn't like, I can't deny that her "intuition" has paid off many times and I am beginning to appreciate that.
Quote from: artvonne
Things I noticed; [snip]
Big air leak.
[snip]
Ok, this might be a dumb question, but a wise person said the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. I watched the video, it seems like a nice bus. How do you tell that there is a big air leak? At least 2 people pointed that out. Where is it in the video and what are you listening for? I totally missed it and would like to know what I am looking for.
Thanks for the continuing education.
Mike
Just listen after he shuts it off. It's louder than the wind. Got to be a big leak to here it as good as we did.
Gary
Quote from: MikeH on January 19, 2011, 03:51:19 PM
Quote from: artvonne
Things I noticed; [snip]
Big air leak.
[snip]
Ok, this might be a dumb question, but a wise person said the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. I watched the video, it seems like a nice bus. How do you tell that there is a big air leak? At least 2 people pointed that out. Where is it in the video and what are you listening for? I totally missed it and would like to know what I am looking for.
Thanks for the continuing education.
Mike
Mike, listening for air leaks comes with being around air brake equipped vehicles for a while. You are always listening for problems. As far as the sound, one way to describe it would be the way a tire sounds if you have punctured it with a nail. This was way louder in order for us to hear it on the tape. I'm guessing an air bag.
TOM
Jump -Quote from: thejumpsuitman on January 19, 2011, 07:59:48 AM
It's an old Custom Coach with a big diesel generator and alcoas but needs tires and the paint is faded.
Custom Coach's, for the most part, have a great reputation for being solid, reliable conversions. Granddaddy of the conversion industry, and still around.
Is it a 5A, B or C?
Would Mama consider it a possibility to put a little "sweat equity" cleaning it up, then flipping it while you continue your search for the "perfect bus?"
$5K or less for a Custom Coach, if it's in good shape, is well worth looking into, IMHO.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
OK first off this one does have a major air leak. Which you can hear as he first walks up to it. (already had it running to warm it up so it will start easier for the video) and then after he shuts it down and goes back outside.
Second it's a "wham" job where someone bought it and tried together. It still has stock windows, stock floor & headliner. That right there indicates to me that it is a "gut job" and I would walk away!
;D BK ;D
OK guys, something is wrong here. I gave Marc a fairly negative recommendation on the Eagle he was looking at, but I am going to go against the grain here and tell him to take a second look at this bus (an MCI ::)) ;).
Air leak. Repairable no matter what. If air beam, you can plate it and put a rolling lobe air spring in for better ride.
OSB. Not sure what to say here. I bet if you looked at some medium (and up) S&S you would find materials that would cause some folks here to turn their nose up ::). I understand that OSB is not a good structural material and probably not good in flexure, but it does not look to me like it was used in that manner. Sure I would use plywood, but not sure that the OSB would be a deal killer.
Wiring. We sure as heck do not want to get into that terrible debate, but non-stranded wire is acceptable (and used often) in commercial units. Has to be well supported, but many folks use solid wire.
It looks to me like the face frames were of decent quality.
Engine started right up, but it was pointed out that it had been started just prior to the video. Sounded good.
Have no idea what the speedo was doing in the bay, but I would not rely on the reading, nor the one on the dash. It is what it is.
Covering the windows is a bit of a downer, but can be fixed with some time and money.
There are some signs of rust, and that needs to be explored. What I saw on the body seems to be surface rust, but not sure about the rust in the bay.
As someone pointed out, what do you expect for $8K
Random thoughts by a guy who knows very little about MCIs
Jim
I just watched the video for the first time, and i don't understand what the fuss is about. There is no rust on the body, anywhere. There is a little staining of the stainless here and there, but the stainless steel used on MCI's doesn't rust as a rule. The panel above the belt-line of the sides is aluminium and while it can corrode, particularly around the rivets, I saw no signs of that. the places where MCI's rust are the mild steel paneling used inside the bays and engine compartments, and some of the structure behind the stainless steel, we saw little of that structure and what I saw looked very good.
The air leak is probably completely minor, it's at the rear of the bus and there is all sorts of useless air controlled stuff there that you can just throw away or fix easily. Things like the tempstat for the shutters, the damper cylinders, the air cylinders that tension the belts, and so on. What you heard was probably related to the engine shut-down cylinder having just been turned on. I highly doubt that it's an airbag with a hole in it or something like that.
this looks to me just like an old bus in normal old bus shape, waiting for someone who wants an old bus to take it away. It's looks a heck of a lot like the old bus in my driveway, to be honest. Mind you i don't like the conversion start much, but that's easy to change.
Brian
OK first off all I didn't say it wasn't doable! But he can get the about the same in a shell or seated coach!
To do it right and insulate the ceiling and possibly redo the floor it's going to need to be gutted! why pay for someones work knowing you got to gut it to correct it?
Brian while I highly respect your many years of bus mechanics, I dispute that the air leak being so loudly heard has ANYTHING at all to do with the shut down system. It can be heard from 15-25 feet away and that my friend regardless whether it be a hose, brake chamber (DD3), airbeam/bag, tank drain, etc is a BIG leak! Could be as easy as closing the drain on a tank, or much worse.
An MC9 is readily available just about anywhere for $3,000-$8,000 ! There are to many newer nicer buses out there for $8,000-$20,000 to pay anymore than that for a 9!
Also the video does not show the main areas of trouble on an MCI in any detail at all! (Hmm think there could be a reason for this?)
Just saying! But hey don't take mine or anyone else's word for it. We aren't the one forking out the cash!
;D BK ;D
BK, I've with you - none of the places I would look at on an MCI were shown, I just didn't see any rust on what we did see. I'd be crawling in a whole bunch of different places! On the air leak - it honestly sounded to me just like when my shutter stat went wonky. It would leak just like that as the engine was turning off. I have no idea why, I disconnected it. The movie camera was looking at the shut-off switch and when the engine turned off, big noise from what seemed to be right beside the camera! It just sounded like one of the control system cylinders or something like that. I'm probably wrong, I usually am...
Brian
Brian seriously I am not doubting that your shutters did make a noise like that. But if you watch the video again, you'll hear the air leak as he approaches the bus before he gets to it. To me it sounds loudest near the drives. (which he very quickly moved away from!)
It may mot be anything serious at all, but if I were looking to buy it I sure wouldn't look at it like that.
I'd be pointing out all the worst case scenarios to the seller and see if he owned up to knowing what it was. ( I can assure you if it's just a drain left open or a chaffed hose and he knows it he will quickly explain how cheap and easy it is to fix )
I do seriously respect the amount of through work you do on your coach and also that to pass on what you've learned to others as well! (even if I did slightly exaggerate the amount of your bus
experience in my last post! ;) )
You have vast mechanical knowledge and skills and it does show.
;D BK ;D
Being originally a 50 year veteran to Minnesota, salt rust has always been an issue with anything from the rust belt, and as the quantity of salt dumped has increased, so has the acceleration of damage. Regardless of the BS explanation of structural failure, anyone with half a brain knows the 35W bridge had salt rust. By their nature, Buses may have been driven all over the US, in all seasons, and not have always been washed down after a briney salt bath. Though it matters not, salt seeps in everywhere, no different than if it were pressure washed with it.
I have been looking at Buses for years. We scrapped over a dozen Buses back in 1988, and got a pretty darn good lesson in how they are built, and how they corrode. In addition, forums such as this one have been showing the gutting jobs, as well as the damage found, in creating a conversion. As someone wrote recently, they have yet to open one up and not find rust inside the walls. So if a conversion is done without opening up the walls, what do you really have? Beats me.
Of the MCI's I have seen so far, every one of them had corroded radiators. But then, I am looking for a cheap Bus. There is a reason Bus companies take a Bus out of service, its simply because the Bus has reached a point in its life where doing the work needed to keep it in service would cost more than replacing it with something better. Some move up to a newer used unit, others move up to new units. Us at the bottom, were at the trickle down economics end of the process, and the primary reason some Buses are cheaper than others is because they have greater needs. But if the radiators are rotted, whats under the skin???
As to the Bus in question, were asked to debate its value by only a handful of selected poor quality pictures and a short poor quality video that seems to pass over key areas. I cant see how the walls were put in, how the floor was done, how its insulated. So we have to make some assumptions. Im in Arkansas. Maine is a LONG ways away. Too far to go look at it to see if I want it, I would need to be much more convinced than by the minimal information I have seen. And what I see is more or less a bunch of crap that all needs to be ripped out, a bus that needs to be opened up and inspected, and then start the process over from scratch. Well, then I would rather just buy an unconverted Bus up front and save myself all the grief.
Now if it was in my own backyard where I could just go look, I might have a different opinion after actually seeing it. This Bus has been listed for a while. If it was worth the price it would be gone, like all the other ones that are gone after a week or so. Offer him $3K if you think you can make it work.
Maine is a long way from North Carolina too. I would only go to look at it if I was prepared to drive it home if I liked it and was comfortable about any concerns I had.
But to say that it's not worth what he is asking or it would be gone is kind of difficult to necessarily agree with. There might be dozens of people who would gladly pay the asking price if they had the money. It is a tough time to say what the value of something really is. The old axiom "something is worth what you can get for it" is always true from a certain perspective, but what someone is willing to pay for something today is different than what he would have paid for the exact same thing 5 years ago. Just look at the housing market in areas like Nevada, Florida, Arizona, etc. Same thing has happened to the bus market as we all know.
And yes, most buses that are available out of service are the "cream of the crap" from their perspective. It comes down to what degree of "worn-outness" one can live with. I do plan to live forever, but this body will probably die long before a bus I own rusts in two. I'm not looking for perfection, just something I can enjoy for the few years I am interested in it. My $.02
[quote I do plan to live forever, but this body will probably die long before a bus I own rusts in two. I'm not looking for perfection, just something I can enjoy for the few years I am interested in it. My $.02
[/quote]
Kudos! That has to be "the" absolute best one I have heard in quite some time. Take two atta-boys out of petty cash for a quote well done.
BCO
Jumpsuit,
I second what Boxcar said.
All of these old buses are going to have something wrong with them, if you like that bus, go get it. If you like that Eagle in FL, go get it. In the price range you are looking at, none of them are going to be perfect. I'm pretty sure my bus has some OSB, not the best insulated(that's what 3 roof airs are for), and I'm fairly certain there's still some rust on my bus as well(even though I just had it painted). SO WHAT!! I have fun with it, even though it's gonna put me in the poor house. :D
If you wanted a $200k bus, then we could pick over all the little stuff.
Brandon
I'm just interested in the most bang for the buck. I don't get off on disassembling something and tracing down every flaw and speck of rust, welding in patch panels, etc. Some people love that kind of stuff and that's great! Thank God for people like that, we need them! But I'm not one of them. To a point, ignorance is bliss... To a point. Sometimes ignorance can kill and I understand that too.
I learned a great lesson about myself about 10 years ago when I decided to restore a 1959 Cadillac. I disassembled that thing piece by piece, laying it all out in my shop. It looked like the FAA was reconstructing a plane crash. Not a bolt was left unscrewed, not a stick of chrome was left on that car. Fenders, hood, trunk, bumpers, all were removed. I was so ready to "do it right"... That's when my neurotic perfectionist side hijacked the project and ruined it for me. With all that time and effort invested, I began to see every flaw as a "must fix". The closer I looked, the less I was satisfied with anything. If I was going to get into it this deep, I wanted it to be perfect... Show quality.
I remember when I sanded down the fenders I found old dents, bondo and rust. The fenders, in my estimation were not salvageable. So I decided to find perfect replacements. Months went by and I never found any I was happy with. In the meantime, the project turned into a monster in my mind and I no longer enjoyed it. I was stuck, frozen by my own unrealistic standards and financial limitations. In my heart, I knew I was not capable of doing what I had in mind to do.
When the reality of it sank in, I called a guy I knew who liked old cars and enjoyed a difficult project. His standards were MUCH, MUCH lower than mine. I sold the car to him in pieces. About two months later, he pulled up into my place of business, blowing the horn of a beautiful red metallic 1959 Cadillac deville, fully reassembled and "restored". He was wearing a smile from ear to ear.
As I walked around the car and looked closely, I could tell that he had re-used the same old fenders and everything else I was planning to replace. Guess what... IT LOOKED GREAT! Not perfect by any stretch, but he was doing what I had bought it to do... He was having fun! So what if it had bondo?... so what if not all the chrome was like new?... So what if the seats weren't done with the original material that cost $100 a yard? I would have been happy with the way he did it if I was really honest with myself. And I could have done what he did without burning out!
Since then I have learned to count the cost of everything more carefully. I have also learned to examine my true motives and have learned to be honest with myself when it comes to what I would love to do vs. what I know I will actually do. I have come to know myself and learned to guard against the unrealistic, demanding perfectionist who lives somewhere down inside of me. I count that as one of the greatest lessons I have ever learned.
Don't know who said this, but it has become one of my favorite quotes...
"The pursuit of excellence is gratifying and healthy; The pursuit of perfection is frustrating, neurotic, and a terrible waste of time."
Guys, who's looking for perfection? It was asked what we thought of this Bus. I said what I thought of it. The OSB looks like it was slapped right over the inside walls, blocking off the windows, witnessed by the hacked out holes in the OSB in the rear area. The wiring looks like it wouldnt pass residential standards, much less an RV bouncing and rattling down the highway.
After you pass over the "conversion", you have the Bus itself. We know very little of it other than it runs and drives. Looking around the country, a running/driving MCI like this is selling anywhere from $5K to $8K, and they might take less on an offer. So whats the conversion worth? IMHO, it needs to come out and start over. But if your comfortable living and sleeping in a bus with questionable wiring, with possibly no way of escape other than the front door, exposing yourself to high levels of formaldehyde based materials, and taking friends and family along and exposing them to the same risks, go for it.
I may not be well versed on detroits and bus mechanicals so well, hence I ask many questions and often stick my foot in my mouth. But I know my way around RV structures a little bit, having employed myself in their construction with a several manufactures in an earlier life, and this one is crap.
I will throw this in purely based on my experience. Of the two buses I have been involved with purchasing (mine and a friend's) they always look better in pictures than in person. My MC-5 looked great until I bought a one way ticket to go pick it up. As it turned out, she's been a fine learning bus but it was not what I had envisioned nor what it looked like in the pictures. (we've put over 20,000 fun miles on it since bringing it home and its been great.) My buddies' Eagle 10 looked like a great shell in pictures. Windows had been removed and the top half was resided and painted. The interior appeared to be all plywood and ready to go the next step. The guy even showed pictures of where it was rusted and would need repair. We drove it 1100 miles home (ran fine) and discovered the residing was steel not aluminum; had leaks and ridges and waves and the interior was junk and had to be stripped out. So it basically had to be torn all the way down and the conversion work started over. Now it turned out just fine also but he paid about $3,000.00 too much for it.
You definitely have to look at it. The fact that it has a furnace, water heater and refrigerator is a plus and will save you about $1,800.00. The engine sounded OK but as pointed out earlier, an 8V71 in an MC-9 is going to require some patience driving; particularly with an automatic. My MC-5 has an 8V71 and its pretty under powered. Plus its considerably lighter than the MC-9.
Fred
I think there are two types of people, the cavalier and the cautious. One type can't understand why the other thinks the way they do, but Lord knows we need each other! ;) I would say that most of our spouses are the opposite type. I know mine is, and thank God for it.
I agree Fred, you absolutely have to see something in person to really know what it is. Pictures can be very deceiving. I think it is important to make sure you are mentally prepared to walk away. You will always more regret making a bad purchase than missing a good deal.
And I agree with Art, there just isn't enough information to go on to make an intelligent assessment of this bus.
I lucked out. The bus was even better looking than in the pictures and it looked pretty good in the pictures. :)
This is going to sound really stupid ..... OK ..... I'll go ahead and say it ..... a bus is not a person (this is where I'm going to be accused of not being a busnut) ..... that being said, falling in love with a particular bus in this market is like marrying the first girl you meet at the dance ..... it's just a dance, don't go to the dance expecting to get married and you won't end up in a miserable divorce ..... buying your coach can be a pleasurable experience if you just consider it part of the journey - step back and ask yourself if you'd still enjoy being 'married' to it 25 years from now? I like the explanation about "looking for perfection" but you certainly don't want to fix it's teeth, dye it's hair, give it liposuction, have it's tummy tucked, face lift it, and have breast augmentation done - just to find out you didn't like it in the first place - the old silk purse out of a sow's ear saying works here - In this market, if you really want to be 'married' to it, sit back and make an offer that absolutely would not give you buyer's remorse and if they don't take it relax and look for a better 'spouse' (of course if your making an offer on my bus this does not apply) - remember that right now the opportunities are great and in the near future they will probably be better - Wish I was looking right now - FWIW
Just so we don't confuse folks about formaldehyde based materials, OSB is not the only material used in a conversion that contains that nasty stuff. Contrary to popular belief, plywood also has it, and the cabinet grade stuff has more.
http://www.tecotested.com/techtips/pdf/tt_formaldehydeemission (http://www.tecotested.com/techtips/pdf/tt_formaldehydeemission)
http://www.pathnet.org/sp.asp?id=24253 (http://www.pathnet.org/sp.asp?id=24253)
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I'm not saying the carpentry in the unit being discussed isn't questionable, I don't like the window openings either, but that can be fixed. I don't see a problem with using OSB as a sheathing for partition walls, I wouldn't use it as sub flooring though.
As for the wiring, it's definitely just in a rough-in state, I didn't see anything in the video that leads me to believe it is a hack job.
Jumpsuit, I sure wish it was closer to NC, so we could take a look-see. :o
Brandon
well as this thread wanders I'll add my 2 cents. OSB stinks!!!! I can't stand working with it. I know plywood has formaldehyde but it sure doesn't stink like OSB. It is code as subloor in res housing now, and is water resistant etc...but even though it costs aprox 1/2 of PW I never use it., Just the reek of a few sheets in my van is enough to ruin my day, let alone cutting it on site . Fortunatly most of my clients are concerned about VOC and are willing to pay the extra $ for PW. Speaking of which I started using no VOC paint and it is a pleasure to work with for interiors..... apparently you can drink the stuff if you want to. Has weird paint/finish properties...but doable.
The problem with OSB is the edges are sealed you cut the crap and the seal is gone it soaks waters and never goes back to the original shape,the edges keep swelling sure it is ok'd for subfloors in some areas of the US so was particle board a few years ago look where that got us,I mean come on guys when WalMart will pay more for plywood than OSB for the employees break room think about it lol if you use the stuff when you cut it paint the edges with a sealer per the mfg
good luck
Niles, have You ever heard the song"I over looked a orchid while searching for a rose"? I guess I went to a barn dance for the wrong reason! I thought it was love at first sight,LOL! I still love My wife and I also love My bus/coach. John L
Since so much of the discussion has been on OSB, I'll chime in my experience with it, which is positive.
Some folks convert on a dime, 4 years ago I was having to do mine on a nickel (or less). People who know me are aware my bus is no showcase. I did the conversion on it out of necessity and with very little money. It will never be a feature bus, but it is a testimony to what can be done when you have to. And it has served us very well as a full time home.
I opted to use the Advantek brand of tig OSB subfloor. I put it in on top of 2x2 framing on 2' centers that are on top of the original bus floor and filled in between with foam board insulation.
4 years on it, 3 1/2 of that full time living on it, with the Advantek fully exposed with nothing laid down over it (certainly not the way it was made to be used) - no problems. Tracked in water, snow, ice. Cats hurling on it. Dirt and sand tracked in and scuffed. Melted run-a-way ice cubes. About a month of leaking condensation from my fridge. My weight walking on it. No problems. No warping, swelling or flaking.
An interesting read about it in a construction forum: http://www.construction-resource.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1573.html (http://www.construction-resource.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1573.html)
I also used regular OSB for my wall sheathing. It isn't as high quality as the Advantek but no problems so far there either.
I realize it isn't the premium material of choice. But it seems to be working well in mine. And as a floor, I'm not so sure that plywood would have done as well under my unusual conditions.
Anyone who can afford $8k, can afford a bit more if you wait,or make a lower offer on a bit more expensive Bus. There are a lot of Buses out there, and as spring approaches, many more will be for sale in all the flavors for everyones tastes. There is no need to jump on anything in this market, just wait and watch. And while you wait and watch, learn as much as you can and plan for it.
I want a Bus simply because I see it as the safest and most reliable form of Motorhome, as well as the fact that most can meet or beat any S&S Motorhome in fuel economy. In addition, and unlike any S&S job, there are many places nationwide that will work on a Bus, should you find yourself in the rare position of needing help.
I initially wanted a GMC. But as they cant readily climb a steep hill, I began looking at the next best option, an MCI. While the economy isnt "as good", its only a slight penalty, and coupled with the best parts availability and modern equipment, well... I'll try to find a -5, but there are soooo many -9's out there you could blindly throw a rock and probably hit one.
The point I am trying to get to is there is no need to rush or jump to buy a Bus when the market is filling up with them. This particular Bus has been for sale for over a month. There are more out there, and more coming. Your first priority should be the quality of the Bus. If its not going to drive out adequately, you dont have a good foundation. If the Bus has been converted, there must be some level of quality that most everyone finds acceptable. Its not just the OSB, its how the conversion was started to begin with, just slapping it up against the walls, covering up the windows so you have no access...come on guys, that is the crudest way to do the job. And thats how it started. It would suck just as bad no matter what they sheeted it with. When you start off crude, its only going to go downhill.
" I initially wanted a GMC. But as they cant readily climb a steep hill,"
Obviously the GMC you looked at is different than my GMPD4106.
I live in B.C. and we certainly have some STEEP hills. Not to mention the Grapevine going to LA. We don't pass anyone but certainly do as well as a lot of big trucks.
Jumpsuitman -
Since this thread has wandered quite a bit, I want to come back to this, which is posted on the bottom of the first page:
"As good as the deal is on this bus, it isn't the best deal I've found. If it was just me, I'd be making an offer on a local MC5 with a new engine that was left to a lady by her father. She dropped from $8500 to $5000 immediately and I feel I could probably get it for less than that. It's an old Custom Coach with a big diesel generator and alcoas but needs tires and the paint is faded. But My wife just doesn't like that one at all for some reason. As mysterious as it is to me what she does and doesn't like, I can't deny that her "intuition" has paid off many times and I am beginning to appreciate that."
I picked up on this comment, and asked a couple of questions about it - they're on the second page of this thread. Can you follow up on my questions?
Thanks!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: Fred Mc on January 21, 2011, 09:24:23 AM
Obviously the GMC you looked at is different than my GMPD4106.
I live in B.C. and we certainly have some STEEP hills. Not to mention the Grapevine going to LA.
I have a very steep 1/4 mile long driveway. As I turn in from the highway the grade starts at 18% (increasing to 22% momentarily) before "leveling" off at 14%. I have been all over the subject trying to make it work, but in the end I feel its better to just find something that can climb it without any questions or goofy modifications. Trust me, I love GMC's, and it would be my hands down first choice. But there just isnt any easy or economical way to get one to safely climb a grade like this.
Quote from: RJ on January 20, 2011, 12:40:47 AM
Jump -
Quote from: thejumpsuitman on January 19, 2011, 07:59:48 AM
It's an old Custom Coach with a big diesel generator and alcoas but needs tires and the paint is faded.
Custom Coach's, for the most part, have a great reputation for being solid, reliable conversions. Granddaddy of the conversion industry, and still around.
Is it a 5A, B or C?
Hi RJ,
Would Mama consider it a possibility to put a little "sweat equity" cleaning it up, then flipping it while you continue your search for the "perfect bus?"
$5K or less for a Custom Coach, if it's in good shape, is well worth looking into, IMHO.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Hi RJ,
I didn't see your comment at first... It does seem like a good deal. The owner says her father spent $5,000 on the rebuild. I asked her to see if she can come up with some documentation. Only bad thing about the bus it is that it has been sitting for 3 or 4 years and it needs tires. They have all the tread, but are old and dry. Does have a set on Alcoas and a 12KW Perkins diesel generator. Interior is very dated, but it's nice. It is dirty though.
I used to blow off my wife's illogical opinions about things, but have come to appreciate her "woman's intuition". So I have learned to listen and respect her opinions even if they are not based on any known fact. I could insist on that bus, but she does have mysterious insight and wisdom, and her negative opinion of it gives me pause.
Buying it to flip sounds fun, but who's buying right now?
Quote from: artvonne on January 21, 2011, 09:13:40 AM
Anyone who can afford $8k, can afford a bit more if you wait,or make a lower offer on a bit more expensive Bus. There are a lot of Buses out there, and as spring approaches, many more will be for sale in all the flavors for everyones tastes. There is no need to jump on anything in this market, just wait and watch. And while you wait and watch, learn as much as you can and plan for it.
That's just it! Also, it would be a painful thing to compromise on something now only to see your dream bus surface on Craigslist 6 months later for less money.
In my situation, it would be ideal to work a trade with someone if possible instead of being subject to a falling market. I think one of the best ways to come out is by trading, and the best trades help both parties.
Very Well Said Sir.
This is EXCELLENT advice for people like myself who are considering purchasing a Bus and who may have visions of a perfect sparkling coach headed down the road. Many destroy the good work that previous owners may have done in their efforts to "make it better." I'm sure this is why many unfinished projects are advertised. If everything else works be satisfied to just change the window coverings, flooring and counter tops. These few changes can brighten up any RV from a Bus to a truck camper and let it do what it was intended to do. Be enjoyed.