Bus is running hot. We pull over every now and then, cools down, and then go further. Ken thought it might be the fan clutch, but when he checked it, he also thought it may be something electrical. Plenty of coolant, no leaks. We are going to try and get home tonight and drive while it is cooler. We have one week to get soooo much done now, before we go on the road again. Have to get the gen installed, and now, see what is causing this problem. Need to see where the closest place is that we can pick up a gen slideout. Guess we will see...........Figured first trip out there would be some glitches. At least she is still running. ;D
should be mechanical gauge in engine compartment. see if it agrees with dash gauge. or ck for loose wire on sender. Just offering something you may have overlooked. Bob.
Thanks
How hot is hot? Like Robert said could be a faulty Dash gauge. I would think that the Engine protection system would shut down the engine if it were actually running hot
That DDEC should light up like a Christmas Tree if it get hot,time to buy Ken a SilverLeaf Ruthi if he doesn't have one for piece of mind
good luck
It goes above 220 and the buzzer sounds. We then let it cool. We have a detroit desiel pro driver, but it is not hooked up, dont really know how to hook it up yet. We got it from hard headed Ken.
If it has a fan clutch, see if it has a hole in it that you can put a bolt in to lock both sides together. I've seen several that have been made that way. The fan will spin at max speed and will cool the engine if the clutch is loose...
Steve
Ruth, is your transmission working OK? If I remember correctly your bus has a retarder instead of an engine brake. I've heard of a retarder being partly on. That doesn't seem possible to me, but if is that would dump an extreme amount of heat into your cooling system. You bus would run hot even if there's nothing wrong with the engine. I think the Setra's have retarders, maybe BK can clear up the "partly on" rumor. I think I sent Ken the wiring diagram for the Pro Driver. If I didn't let me know.
Ken
Yes, it has a fan clutch, but cant see a problem there.
We have so much going on right now. We dont have a brake retarder on this bus anymore, we have a jake brake. Ken says you did send him the diagram, but he says he isnt smart enough to hook it up, lol. We need to find someone to do it that knows what they are doing.
Ruthi, you cannot install a Prodriver from one engine to another without reprogramming the Prodriver same if you change the ECM they need reprogramming and that requires software
good luck
It was a new one, but, need to get help to install.
Uhh, not to dispute clifford but all the pro drivers I have researched can be hooked up directly to the round, I believe 6 pin diagnostic plug without any programming. That is if you have a series 60.
I may be wrong but while researching one for my own use, this is what I was told. It merely reads info directly from the vehicles ecm. I was also told they would only work on the series 60 engines and not an 8v92. Go figure.
I believe on Fred Hobes page he tells how to build a generator slideout if you have time to build one.
Steve 5B........
Ruthi,
I haven't seen the coach up close and personal yet so I really can not say 100% that what I suspect is the cause or not.
But I do know that an engine starving for air will run hot.
Those purty stacks you have coming out the back look awesome, but.....
IIRC one is really exhaust and the other is for the intake system. If this id true I have to fear that the size of the intake air has been greatly compromised which would make the engine starve for air.
I could be wrong, and really hope I am. Those look sweet and I know it took time & $ to do.
Now OTH if a fan clutch is the culprit. All most all of them I have seen had a place like Steve mentions where a bolt can be put it and lock it on all the time. (one of our buses is/has been that way since who knows how long before we bought it)
;D BK ;D
Ruthi, the software is available from DD by download for free www.ddcsn.com (http://www.ddcsn.com) but the kicker is translator box you need to download with,that being a new ProDriver it will need programing to work
good luck
How did the coach run going to the rally? Did this just happen on your return route?
Paul
I called and talked to Ken about this a few hours ago. They had stopped for the night. Ken said he can keep it from overheating if he keeps it under 58 MPH.
I really had no help for him. Their coach wiring is not like a regular Dina as their coach has been rewired to all 12 volt with no 24 volt remaining. I saw their fan clutch at Arcadia and it sures looks identical to mine. From the wiring diagram for my coach I think the clutch might be 24 volt, but not sure without actually checking mine.
I can't see any place on the Dina clutch to put in a bolt, but I could be missing something. The maintenance manual doesn't say anything about a bolt.
I'll check ours tomorrow and tell ya where the bolt is/goes! (it's sorta hidden from the back side if I remember right!)
I hope it's something simple, but if your luck id like mine it won't be.
I still suspect the incoming air supply. (Brian remember yours had similar overheating problems from the bird nests in you intake?)
;D BK ;D
I'm with BK - restricted intake - richer mixture - unburned fuel - Do you have any tell tale exhaust? Can you see it if you do?
Ken replaced the original Dina air intake with something new. He could still have an obstruction, but not in the usual place for a Dina. He said it was running fine the first part of his trip.
I do see where a bolt could possibly be installed to lock up the clutch after I looked closer at it.
Quote from: belfert on January 02, 2011, 04:02:16 AM
Ken replaced the original Dina air intake with something new. He could still have an obstruction, but not in the usual place for a Dina. He said it was running fine the first part of his trip.
I do see where a bolt could possibly be installed to lock up the clutch after I looked closer at it.
Brian,
I know Ken replaced the original air intake. IIRC the "tailpipe" on the right is for the air intake. If the "tailpipe" is the ONLY place the filter draws air from, it is highly possible that it is too restrictive.
Again IIRC most stock intake ducts/pipes/hoses/etc. are 8-10" in diameter. Those pipes coming out of Ken & Ruthi's appear to be standard 4-5" stacks. An engine has to be able to breath to run properly.
I'm not saying that it is definitely the issue here. As I really don't know and can't tell just from pics.
But (again) IIRC it took some convincing on my part for you to believe that yours could be blocked the way it was, or that it could cause yours to run warm also.
(I ain't always right once I thought I was wrong, but it turned out I was mistaken! ;D)
There are numerous other possibilities that could be Ken & Ruthi's problem, and in time we will be able to help them diagnose and fix the problem. I just like to look @ the most common areas I personally have experienced first.
FWIW ;D BK ;D
BK, Ken stopped and opened up the intake to see if that was a problem, it still heated up. Think it is a clutch problem. Can you describe to us where to find the place to lock it up? Thanks
Ruthi, most of the Dina's your year model had a switch to turn the fan off and on have Ken check and be sure the switch is on if he has one some were controlled by electric over air also
good luck
BTW, the stacks are 6inch.
Ruthi,
On the back side of the fan/clutch assembly (radiator side) there will be some holes and if you spin the fan you should see where at least two holes will line up. Take the appropriate size bolt and thread it in and snug it up!
Now that said, there is a way to see if the clutch is working at all on a DINA that many buses do not have the option of!
If the rear switch panel is original, you can turn your battery power on (leave ign switch off) and flip it to rear start. You should hear a "clunk" or loud "thud" as the solenoid kicks in to engage the clutch. Once you hear this you should not be able to turn the fan! (unless it is slipping in the clutch or on the belts!)
Let me know if you need more details. I will go down soon and verify the bolt locations and bolt size on ours right after eating brunch which is being cooked right now!
two 7 zero 7 zero five eleven thirty nine is my cell #
;D BK ;D
Thanks BK. We are 45 min from home, so, Ken will call you when we get home and have the tools to work with.
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on January 02, 2011, 07:48:19 AM
Now that said, there is a way to see if the clutch is working at all on a DINA that many buses do not have the option of!
If the rear switch panel is original, you can turn your battery power on (leave ign switch off) and flip it to rear start. You should hear a "clunk" or loud "thud" as the solenoid kicks in to engage the clutch. Once you hear this you should not be able to turn the fan! (unless it is slipping in the clutch or on the belts!)
I hear that clunk when I turn my switch to rear. I unhooked the clutch connection to measure the voltage this morning and now it doesn't lock up when I turn the switch to rear, but the clutch still makes noise and it is still cooling fine. Ken and Ruth's bus has been completely rewired to 12 volt and I wouldn't be surprised if the rear start is gone.
My air intake originally was blocked, but not totally. It was one of the first things I thought of when I was overheating. I pulled the elbow off the air filter and it still overheated. My overheating was fixed with a new radiator core.
Ken and Ruthi, given your intake plumbing, I would install a vacuum "tattletale" before the turbo and see if it is pulling more "vacuum" that it should. They are cheap and easy to install (if you have a threaded port). For sure, that would tell you if you have a restriction.
If I picture your route correctly, you do not have all that many hills between Arcadia and your home. If that is the case, then air restriction would not be an issue. The only time you need big flow is when you have to be heavy on the throttle. Then you can always back off and see what happens.
You have a DDEC and I would think it would adjust for the lack of air by cutting back on the fuel.
My bet is the fan clutch.
Random thoughts.
Jim
Ruthi, I want you to understand how sincere I am when I tell you this. I want to offer to you and Ken the use of your old bus until Ken can get the new one where he feels comfortable. What I am saying is, I know that your running out of time to get back on the road with your work. I have the old girl fueled up in my shop ready to hit the road. If Ken wants to fly to Tulsa, I will pick him up and take him to the bus and he can drive it back to your house and use it on the road working until he can get back to the new one. I would not do this for anyone but you two. You two were nice to me, when I flew down to buy your bus, that I wanted to offer the same back to you and Ken. I trust you guys. I know how well you take care of things. Sincerely, Aaron Veale
WOW Aaron, what a super guy & super offer! All I can say is your right about Ken & Ruthi being great people! I haven't met them in person, but talked to them on the phone and boards enough to know about them! (this time last yr they were selling a 60 series engine I wanted bad, but we were having $ problems and couldn't afford it at the moment and they told me "come get it out of our shop, and pay us when you can!" I ended up not being able to make the trip, and Hard Headed Ken called me and asked me if I would be mad if he went ahead and bought it. I told him "By all means no, go for it! I don't have the $ or the time to go get it so help us all out and go for it!")
;D BK ;D
That is so awesome for you to offer it!
Ruthi,
Was the outside air temps considerably cooler when you drove to Arcadia than when you drove home? Jack
Jack, yes it was, but, Ken says he thinks he knows when the fan clutch went bad. We stopped for fuel before arriving at Arcadia, and Ken said he smelled something, but, could never find what it was. It must have been that. Anyways, he took the fan off and decided to just lock it down full time.
Aaron, sent you a pm. Aaron is one of the best out there. His offer was unbelievable. We are so grateful for friends like that. Thanks to all for your help on this, it is appreciated. Thanks to BK for the kind words too!
Ruthi,
I would be careful on how long you have that fan locked like that. If it is anything like MCI's clutch (which it sounds like it is), then my buddy in tech supports says that they have a tendency to shear off before too much time. Then you are really stuck.
So make sure you have a high quality bolt that you put in there (I don't know my bolts very well, but what, a grade 8 would be best. Grade 5 if not?).
FWIW
God bless,
John
Ruthi, once you get a handle on this problem, you and Ken need to take a look at the air intake. Most Engines have a 7 inch intake to the filter as a minimum. While I am pretty sure that is not your problem here, you may have some power loss issues.
Again the first thing I would do is get the air filter "tattletale". Next, on your ProDriver, watch the boost. If you are choked down you will see limited boost.
Jim
Ruthi and Ken, it looks like you made it back just fine.
Have you figured out why you had the heating problem?
Jim
Yes we have. It was a bad fan clutch. Ken locked it down for now, and it is running fine. It was a 24 volt, and it only had 12 volt going to it. We are going back out to work tomorrow, so, hope all goes well. Kinda scary, getting the bugs out of a new one. Bad news is, where we are going to be, there is going to be an unusual snow and ice storm.
Quote from: ruthi on January 08, 2011, 05:28:47 AM
Yes we have. It was a bad fan clutch. Ken locked it down for now, and it is running fine. It was a 24 volt, and it only had 12 volt going
I was questioning if you had a 24 volt clutch. Your clutch looked original and I had looked at my wiring diagrams when you started having issues and it seemed like the clutch should be 24 volt per the diagram.
On a electromagnetic Horton clutch it should not make any difference where it is 12V or 24V only difference is the amp draw 12V is 4 amps 24V is 2 amps you are just creating a magnetic field to make it work fwiw I would replace it with a 3 speed
good luck
On the aux air compressor on my prevost I tried to test it with 12 volt wouldn"t hold but with 24 volt was rock solid.(reason was thinking of changing to all 12 volt system) Bob
Yep