Hello everyone, I have a 84 eagle with 6v92, question is what antifreeze should i be looking for, from local sources? ( napa, etc.) Any type that you prefer, or recommend ? Thankyou for the help!! Richard
I just got some from Oriely's called fleet charge that is for HD diesels with SCA's in it Jerry
Here's the approved list from Detroit Diesel:
http://extranet.detroitdiesel.com/Support/On-Highway/Manuals/Lubricants_Fuels_Coolants/Power_Guard_Oils/index4print_93K217.asp (http://extranet.detroitdiesel.com/Support/On-Highway/Manuals/Lubricants_Fuels_Coolants/Power_Guard_Oils/index4print_93K217.asp)
Does't the type of anti-freeze to use depend on wet sleeves or dry sleeves?
Rick
You can use the same coolant in a dry cylinder and wet cylinder liner engine. But-don't use the cheap dry cylinder liner coolant in the wet cylinder liner. Truth be told-I used to use standard Prestone antifreeze/coolant (green stuff) and just check the acidity level and just put in additive as needed. Got 500,000mi out of the engine. Now run regular Prestone in my 8V-71. Still green and clean. Good Luck, TomC
Tom, can you expand a little on additives to control PH. Where do you get them and what is the name? How far out of "wack" can the antifreeze be and still be OK to add the additives to?
Thanks
Fred Mc.
Usually Nacool is what you use and usually litmus paper came with it to test the acidity of the coolant. Good Luck, TomC
As many of you recall, this subject has been discussed extensively in previous threads. After seeing some posts that made me concerned, I researched the subject and wrote an article for Bus Conversion Magazine.
It turns out the antifreeze is almost as controversial as oil ;)
A major issue with antifreeze in big diesels is cavitation erosion of the cylinder liners on wet sleeve engines. The second major issue that automotive antifreeze ("Prestone") has morphed in recent years to address the aluminum car engines. The recent formulations have high levels of phosphates and silicates. These components are not good for diesel engines.
For the life of me, I don't understand why folks try to cut corners by buying less expensive automotive antifreeze. Antifreeze that meets ASTM D-6210 can be found for about $12 a gallon at many truck supply companies or a DD dealer. Just not worth the risk of problems - even with dry cylinder engines as far as I am concerned.
Jim
Jim
thankyou for the help!! I know it has been discussed a lot, tried to search, found nothing so thankyou very much for the info!!! Richard
Anti-freeze is distributed just like oil and gasoline-- a few plants sell the same ingredients under different names. The standard green anti-freeze is all the same and works fine in diesels with wet sleeves. NaCool is just a booster. The stuff you don't want to use is the "evnvironmentally friendly" stuff-- it states specifically on the lable it is not for use in diesel engines. I'm not sure about the extended life (red-pink) anti-freeze. And the pre-mix is a waste of money. I use use the cheapest green anti-freeze I can find and mix it 50/50 with distilled water. Distilled water is very important.
I remember on the old MAK bbs (the one that kept crashing, for you old-timers), there was a thread about anti-freeze, and the comment was made that anti-freeze itself is a lousy coolant for hot engines. Great for keeping the cooling system from freezing, but not, in the the common 50/50 mix, good for cooling.
IIRC, one of the posters on the thread mentioned a 70/30 mix water/anti-freeze worked a lot better in warmer climates.
As Geoff mentioned, using distilled water is important, as it keeps out the impurities (minerals, chemicals, etc.) found in tap water.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: RJ on October 07, 2010, 10:08:50 AM
I remember on the old MAK bbs (the one that kept crashing, for you old-timers), there was a thread about anti-freeze, and the comment was made that anti-freeze itself is a lousy coolant for hot engines. Great for keeping the cooling system from freezing, but not, in the the common 50/50 mix, good for cooling.
IIRC, one of the posters on the thread mentioned a 70/30 mix water/anti-freeze worked a lot better in warmer climates.
As Geoff mentioned, using distilled water is important, as it keeps out the impurities (minerals, chemicals, etc.) found in tap water.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Yes Sir! I noticed about a 10 degree drop while climbing when I went to 70/30 here in the blazing hot state of Texas.
If you cannot find Nacool, you might be able to find Wixcool by Wix, same stuff.
You can get the coolant filter for your 6V92 that already has the additive in it too. I check mine with the little test strips. If it gets low, I change the filter or add Wixcool or similar.
Might be overkill but I drain, flush, and fill cooling system every 2 years. Man those radiators are expensive..............
Best,
justin
I talked to JD at C&J Bus Repair about antifreeze when I had my bus serviced about a month ago. He said that the regular green antifreeze is just fine as long as the additives are kept up.
I'm not convinced JD is right and will still be changing out my antifreeze to a product on the DD approved list.
Will concentrated antifreeze freeze and burst the bottles in an unheated garage where it might get down to zero? I know that antifreeze must be diluted to keep cooling systems from freezing up.
Belfert, I think that you are forgetting what causes the damage when freezing occurs.
Water molecules are in random order when the water is a liquid. When it freezes, the molecules must be arranged in the right order, which takes more space than when they are random.
While other substances may expand when freezing, water expands a full 10%. Without water, you should not see this expansion. And, yes, antifreeze will freeze at near zero temperatures.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey
Each time this comes up, folks say that you can use automotive green antifreeze. That concerns me.
Geoff you are, without question, among the very best DD two-stroke experts. I know that you post from experience and knowledge. Having said that, your comment about using automotive antifreeze does not agree with the DD coolant bulletin.
When I researched the subject for my article, I found folks that used automotive antifreeze with good results. However, the common denominator was that they tested the antifreeze and were careful to add the proper additives. Or, they had a dry cylinder type engine.
What really bothers me it that today's "Prestone" type antifreeze have very high levels of phosphates. Phosphates are the component that DD is very emphatic about avoiding. Their recommendation is for products that have very low levels of phosphates and silicates.
I think we need to be careful to advise folks with wet liners to use what DD recommends. Use of other products should be done with a full understanding of possible consequences and or what needs to be done to "adjust" the product to the application.
Jim
Jim, I always used the green in my 8v92 but never bought the cheap stuff from Auto Zone or such DD sold the green under their brand up to last year and that is where I bought mine now they only sell the designer color long life and I never used distilled water only R/O water.
Me I would not classify a 92 series as a true wet sleeve engine only 2 inches on a 92 series comes in contact with the coolant at the top of the block.
Cummins and Cat had their own antifreeze but DD never had anything but the green till the 60 series came into the world
good luck
Clifford, you bring up an excellent point. I think the confusion comes in when we talk about "green colored" antifreeze.
From the research I could find, it appears that the industry had two kinds of green colored antifreeze. One was formulated for cars and one for diesel engines. The formulations were different. It appears that if you go back far enough (30 years?) that there was only one formulation. As the automotive engine technology started to change to aluminum components (was the Vega the first US car to have an aluminum head?) the formulations changed and the automotive formulation became higher in phosphates and silicates (have never understood why, but it was apparently necessary for protection of the aluminum components).
Any green colored antifreeze purchased at DD would have been low in phosphates and silicates.
As pointed out, I don't think you can find green colored ("shorter life") diesel formulated antifreeze easily anymore. Most manufacturers (few in number - most brands are private labels from a small number of suppliers) have now migrated to "long life" formulations. Those formulations are pink or purple (perhaps other colors).
Bottom line, the color does not define the formulation.
As I said in an earlier post, for a few dollars more, I will always defer to a product that clearly states it is for diesel engines. Even with the "semi wet sleeve" V92 engines.
Jim
I'm not sure which is better and I don't care either. I bought a good brand from my local NAPA and put it in. I will not worry about how much damage I am doing IF ANY. Test your PH in your antifreeze and you should be good to go. My Detroit has more damage from sitting around than from the few thousand miles it got this year with cheap antifreeze.
real stupid ??? but how do i check my level on a 4106?
Desi,
Not sure on your 4106, but my 4905 has an access door to the coolant fill on the drivers side rear, right at the rear cornor.
Has a surge tank.
HTH
Cliff
Desi,
Your 4106 is the same as Cliff's 4905.
Bob
Years back I had a manual for a 1947 GMC PD 3751. In it they listed several chemicals that could be used in the cooling system. One I believe was methyl alcohol, and if im not mistaken another was propylene glycol (RV antifreeze). If someone has one of those old manuals it would be interesting to recall what else they suggested back then.
I remember watching an old WWII survival movie that showed a soldier broke down in the desert with his jeep. The movie showed how he could drain the water from the radiator and drink it.
Quote from: Geoff on October 12, 2010, 12:25:42 PM
I remember watching an old WWII survival movie that showed a soldier broke down in the desert with his jeep. The movie showed how he could drain the water from the radiator and drink it.
Wow. I cant believe anything in a war jeeps cooling system would be good for you. Might not kill you today though, so maybe it depends on what kind of survival they are talking about. Fast death by dehydradtion, or slow death through lead poisoning, antifreeze poisoning, or both. Ick.