We've all had it happen alot but it finally caught up with me today. Approaching an intersection and a woman in a subaru barely clears my bumper as she passes me and we are
far past the point of no return on the intersection, the light turns yellow and she decides about half way through the lane change (which was totally illegal) and you guessed it she stood on her brakes and I totalled her car, tore the fiberglass bumper on my front end and bent a couple things but really just cosmetic stuff. A guy pulls over and says I'm a witness and she just cut you off and then stood on her brakes she got out of her car and immediately started admitting her guilt. So, we called the cops (Mistake #1) and they sent a local guy and he told us to wait for the state trooper. The trooper get's there and doesn't say boo to the woman reponsible and immedaitely asks me if this is a commercial vehicle and I say no it's my family's RV and he say's so you have never used this bus to travel somewhere to make money and i say well yes I have a couple years back when we were living In Tenn we traveled to churches and played for a free will offering and he say's So this is a commercial bus then and I said no we don't use it for that anymore. Long story short he calls the commercial vehicle inspector and the guy actually goes online to bus for sale.com out of Nashville to try and find a case against me.
4 hours later we have a friend of mine with a class b license drive it to the DOT for an inspection. The guy never even entered my bus, never chacked a fitting, didn't look at my brakes or anything and said I'm gonna do my damndest to pursue you for
tax evasion this next week and when I didn't look frightened at his accusation he said that not only would my friend have to drive the bus to our storage area ( because he had nothing on me) but he cited me for driving without a license because I had lasik surgery 7 years ago and the kind folks at DMV hadn't noiticed I took the test with my glasses off. Really folks? We've come to a place where we get charged 185 bucks for improving our vision?
And people wonder why some folks don't want government run healthcare.
I remember a friend saying that the DNR can bsically violate any right of yours they want to, well. I'm here to tell you the DOT knows a money making scheme when they see one.
The best quote of the day comes when despite my insurance policy and the vehicle title saying clearly that this is an RV he says the only thing that kept me from taking your vehicle from you permanently is that on the original MCI steel plate it didn't designate a passenger #. The problem with government run organizations is they don't have schooling on the tendency of folks in power to abuse the folks
they are supposed to serve.
I know he didn't like it much when he said you sure look calm for a guy who may have his bus taken from him come Monday and I said I'm calm because I don't answer to you and the guy that I do answer to doesn't have to mistreat me to make himself look bigger. He hated it when I thanked him for his time and asked him if he had anything I could pray for him for.
It was a good day all in all and thank God nobody got hurt,
besides it was my beautiful 8 year old daughter grace's Birthday. how cool is that?
I am blessed guy
Rick
What a prick!
Where did this happen Rick?
I would call the head of DOT in that state Monday Morning, call me at 828-three one zero 8111 and I'll get you the number, report that creap!
Sorry that happened!
Jack
And Happy Birthday Grace!
Rick, I'm glad no one was hurt, it could have been worse. Just walk away and be thankful you know the way. It will not do any good to confront any of those who gave you grief, it's their way for some. Let your insurance take care of you and let them go after the lady who caused it, that's what they are paid to do. Did you get the name of the witness? The insurance folk will ge glad to get that.
So thankful and wish your daughter a Happy Birthday!
Paul
Rick, glad no one was hurt it usually has different results when a bus and car tangle.
I do not know about MN. laws but most states can do a DOT inspection if the vehicle weighs over 10,000 lbs and involed in a accident and RV's are not excluded.
I seen the DOT inspectors do pickups and horse trailers here in AZ and Texas,when I wrecked my pickup and trailer in Texas they checked it for about 5 hrs and it wasn't my fault.
good luck
What a punk! I can't tell you what to do but I can ask. I beg of you to file a complaint. I ask this of you because it has to start somewhere. He has no more right to threaten an American citizen with siezure of property than the man on the moon. Stick it right back on him. He made you uncomfortable as a free citizen when you did nothing wrong. Make him feel that way for violating your right to be free! Make him answer to it. GD that fires my hide.
Quote from: wal1809 on September 25, 2010, 08:35:32 PM
What a punk! I can't tell you what to do but I can ask. I beg of you to file a complaint. I ask this of you because it has to start somewhere. He has no more right to threaten an American citizen with siezure of property than the man on the moon. Stick it right back on him. He made you uncomfortable as a free citizen when you did nothing wrong. Make him feel that way for violating your right to be free! Make him answer to it. GD that fires my hide.
I agree, just because your Christian does not mean you turn the other cheek to this kind of behavior. If we dont keep fighting for our rights and freedoms, or children wont have any rights and freedoms.
Where did this take place? Sounds like Minnesota. Hennepin by the sounds of it.
The more I think about this the angrier I get. I dont think I would have cooperated, in fact I am sure i wouldnt have. I am pretty certain that had he threatened to take my Bus, I would have told him to try it. If they had told me I couldnt drive it, or tried to make me take it to DOT, I also would have refused. I would have gotten a surperviser, went all the way to the state DOT, secretary of State.... ask them why they bother titling Buses as RV's if we have to worry about threats and hassles like this from Law Enforcement. That Trooper needs to have his ticket pulled and be taught a few state laws.
Too bad that you didn't have one of those helmet cameras like Jack Conrad has. Mounted on your dash you could have had a video of the whole thing. Hard to argue with a video.
Glad you and your family are all right! Sounds to me like you might have gotten shuffled off in an attempt to possibly cover up some local dignitary or some one of importance, as you said early on the woman did not dispute it was her fault. Also you stated that they never talked to her, but grabbed you and started harassing you for a totally unrelated (Fabricated) issue, hmmmm! sucks! >:( >:( Good luck, Again, Glad ya'll are safe! ;)
i hope you got the witnesses name, and i hope he also saw the cops behavior toward you. what state was this? talk about a jerk! i don't think i could have kept as cool as you were. did he even talk to the lady driving the car?
i've been close a couple times, but now i have a reminder to try to keep extra distance.
say your prayers this weekend that no one was hurt and that your beliefs kept you from choking the life out of some a$$ that needed it. the guys are right. if you have witnesses, file a complaint against him.
Rick,,
Can you post a copy of the traffic crash report? It would help us provide you better advice.
Brian S.
If you feel wronged by the ST it is important that you make a formal complaint. POs who behave badly and receive no reprimand warning etc..will continue to behave badly and may even get worse. Absolute power corrupts....a formal complaint checks the absolute power thing, won't necessarily change anything, but doing nothing will really not change anything.
Rick,
Glad you and your Family are OK.
Quote from: Depewtee on September 26, 2010, 04:59:12 AM
Can you post a copy of the traffic crash report? It would help us provide you better advice.
It will clear up much of the "speculation" too!
First off I'm glad no one was hurt.
Next, I can see this thread is going to get really long, really fast. We need to learn something here. We've been warned many times by our colleagues that any time we use these for money making adventures that a whole mess of different rules apply. Whether that bites Rick in this situation is a big stretch by the DMV. Next, I learned from Rick about not saying anything to implicate myself in an accident, but that is really hard to do when you're upset and people are all pointing fingers at each other.
In my Eagle I feel confident I'm covered. It is registered in Texas. It's licensed and a "remanufactured motorhome" Passenger rating is 0. Empty weight is 33k or so. A non commercial class B license is required.
So, if I'm in an accident I'm going to act like I'm driving a Winnebago and the word "bus" is not in my vocabulary. Rick, at your expense, we will learn something very valuable from this.
David
Quote from: David Anderson on September 26, 2010, 06:11:54 AM
First off I'm glad no one was hurt.
Next, I can see this thread is going to get really long, really fast. We need to learn something here. We've been warned many times by our colleagues that any time we use these for money making adventures that a whole mess of different rules apply. Whether that bites Rick in this situation is a big stretch by the DMV. Next, I learned from Rick about not saying anything to implicate myself in an accident, but that is really hard to do when you're upset and people are all pointing fingers at each other.
In my Eagle I feel confident I'm covered. It is registered in Texas. It's licensed and a "remanufactured motorhome" Passenger rating is 0. Empty weight is 33k or so. A non commercial class B license is required.
So, if I'm in an accident I'm going to act like I'm driving a Winnebago and the word "bus" is not in my vocabulary. Rick, at your expense, we will learn something very valuable from this.
David
Not to step on this thread but why is a non commercial class b is required in Texas when registered as a motor home.
How did the actual inspection go? Did they find anything interesting?
Concerning the class b license. I went back to the commercial driver's manual for North Carolina and found that recreational vehicles are exempt from CDL, "However, a non-CDL Class A or B license maystill be required" The manual does not go on to define "may". So, if you get a different answer from each person you ask, don't be surprised.
Art
Quote from: David Anderson on September 26, 2010, 06:11:54 AM
We've been warned many times by our colleagues that any time we use these for money making adventures that a whole mess of different rules apply. Whether that bites Rick in this situation is a big stretch by the DMV.
Dave,
This is my biggest concern for Rick also.
How his state views the use of it matters greatly.
He may be OK as long as it was his family and not for the transportation of others. I just don't know.
Hopefully one of our Law Enforcement members can educate us on the nuances of the law, as it pertains to this situation.
Cliff
Quote from: wal1809 on September 26, 2010, 06:25:02 AM
Quote from: David Anderson on September 26, 2010, 06:11:54 AM
Not to step on this thread but why is a non commercial class b is required in Texas when registered as a motor home.
It's over 26,000 lbs. Read the code carefully. RV's are exempt but any RV over 26k requires a class B. If you use it to pull a trailer greater than 10k, then a Class A is required. It doesn't have to be commercial, but it must be the appropriate class. Here is an old link from 2004 that will clarify it.
http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/6371.html (http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/6371.html)
This information is from the Texas Department of Public Safety website. It appears that to qualify for an exemption from the CDL requirement you need to complete a certification form (form is attached).
Brian S.
Who is exempt from a CDL? (Certification form CDL-2 required)
Persons operating the following vehicles are exempt from a Commercial Driver License:
1. A vehicle that is controlled and operated by a farmer; and used to transport agricultural products, farm machin- ery, or farm supplies to or from a farm; and not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier; and used within 150 air miles of the person's farm.
2. A fire-fighting or emergency vehicle necessary to the preservation of life or property or the execution of emer- gency governmental functions, whether operated by an employee of a political subdivision or by a volunteer fire fighter (this includes operators of industrial emergency vehicles);
3. A military vehicle, when operated for military purposes by military personnel, members of the Reserves and National Guard on active duty, including personnel on full-time National Guard duty, personnel on part-time training, and National Guard military technicians; or
4. A recreational vehicle that is driven for personal use.
That is very similar to the North Carolina book, but it doesn't exempt RV's from a non CDL requirement by weight. But the NC book has the word "may" without any further clarification. I think most states wording is similar because they are following the Federal Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986.
I would say, get your non CDL for the class vehicle and be the better driver because of it and not have to worry.
Art
I'll bet that cop has a very small Winnebago.
Good afternoon everyone,
Thanks for the kind words and support I would have responded sooner to your questions but I work early on Sunday's.
To answer the first question. There is no accident report yet... All involved are supposed to go to a website and give their version of the accident. The officer didn't ask for the witnesses # after I told him about it.
There were no citations given to the lady in the car and I received two.
These are both based upon the premise that I own and operate a "commercial" vehicle.
Incorrect license and incorrect registration.
The officer's case is that since I drove my bus to churches 2 years ago when we lived in a different state with just my family and because we accepted a free will offering at that time our bus irrevocably became a commercial vehicle and can never be just an RV from that point on thereby requiring a Class B license, a medical statement, totally different insurance and a whole boatload of taxes. I know you are all shaking your heads because virtually all of our conversions were used by one charter company ot another before we bought them so we are all commercial vehicles according to this guys thinking.
However, Minnesota law states quite clearly that I have to use this exclusively for my business in order for that to be true. The title on the vehicle states it is a motorhome for personal use and when he asked me if he stepped onto the bus or opened a bay he wasn't going to find a bunch of instruments right? and I replied you are going to find a camping grill, camping chairs, camping lanterns and that if he looked on the dash and in our drawers he would find a couple dozen recent campsite receipts and when I pointed out our current stickers to both Minnesota and Wisconsin state parks he just got more terse and angry. I asked an attorney friend this morning why, since he is a DOT officer, he didn't bother to check the brakes or the interior of the coach? and he felt that it's because as long as I don't fail or pass Dot or as long as he can say that he didn't know that the interior was setup as an RV as opposed to a tour bus with seats he can continue to look for a violation on my part because he has seen no evidence to conclude that I'm not guilty. That was pretty mid bogglingly evil if that's true. That would assume he is saying "Well, I'm not gonna look at the "truth" that's right in front of me because then I would have to let this guy go", as it stands he can search high and low for the next couple days for a violation that would justify his involvement in the investigation and his overtime pay.
It seemed that nothing I was gonna say was going to turn this guy around once he started down this tax evasion road so I just shut up and answered with yes and no answers.
I feel that the deeper truth behind what happened to me is that states, cities, and towns are under water financially and they are going to use every means necessary right or wrong, truthful or not, justified or illegal to try and keep their jobs and they will start to move towards RV users abd owners to satisfy their payroll and spending habits.
I had a great day, did my job well this morning, prayed for these guys a number of times and just didn't allow their perception of me define the man that I am. I'm a knucklehead sometimes, I have a temper, I am obsessed with putting an 8V92 in my bus but I am not the lowlife scoundrel that these guys tried to paint me to be. ;D
The funny thing is the only people with paint on them... is them.
Do your homework boys and girls, don't drive from town to town selling squegee's at squeegee conventions in your bus. Don't have anything that may be construed as an office in your bus and don't argue with guys with guns and badges. Argue in a court of law to a judge. Oh and have NOTHING in your bus from MCI that says that you're bus is rated for a specific number of passengers despite the fact that you would have no place to put all of them. This guy was serious when he said the only reason I don't take you bus from you right now is because the metal plate on my dash, (which by the way, was hidden and I freely took off the cover so he could read it) only showed GVWR and tire weight ratings. I'm covinced that if he could have proven that my bus could carry 50 passengers he would have my bus right now. I think that's why he went to his truck and sat on the internet looking at bus dealerships and the like to look at what a touring coach and an entertainer coach looked like inside.
I'll beat these guys in court and better yet I'll do it without having to make them feel like horses butt's.
In regards to an earlier question, the accident took place in St. Paul Minnesota
It's good to know you have brothers and sisters that are there for you when these kinds of things happen.
A heartfelt thanks to all of you that replied or prayed for us,
It's a beautiful day I think I'll go hit a little white ball 80some times around a golf course.
Gotta get out and breathe fresh air before they send me to Leavenworth!!! ;D ;D ;D
Rick
Leavenworth is a small city in WA. state with a Bavarian theme. You might like it.
http://www.leavenworth.org/modules/pages/index.php?pageid=1 (http://www.leavenworth.org/modules/pages/index.php?pageid=1)
...Cable
No way I could have known it was Minnesota, but it sure sounded like it. I have recieved three bogus speeding tickets in the last 25 years. The last one was a year ago in western Hennepin county. It suddenly dawned on me that all three tickets were from Hennepin, even though I didnt live in that county, just drove through it occasionally. Over that last 25 years, ive traveled a lot of the US, many 100's of thousands of miles, never stopped for anything.
The last few trips we made moving down here, we started counting police cars because you see so many there. We previously lived in the western Minneapolis Metro area, about 140 miles of driving before entering Iowa. The last few trips we have counted over 100 police in that 140 miles, the majority in the metro area, but still about 20 between Iowa and the cities. It has become a police state folks. I can drive through other states are sometimes not see so much as one police car. And when you do meet cops down here, they are friendly and decent. Not at all the "hillbillies" people back home try to make them out.
I left that state because it had become so difficult to live and operate. Over the last year, there have been times I questioned if it was really as bad as I thought it was, Then I read this garbage. I was going to say it was Minnesota last night, but didnt because I didnt want to sound goofy. But it was, and im not. Its a very, very beautiful state, but Minnesota "nice" it is not! People shouldnt have to drive in fear of police, but thats a real reality in that part of the world.
Rick, again, I hate this happened!
I do hope you complain about these jerks! And trust me they have bosses up the line called senators and congressmen/women that don't like their voting constituents picked on.
When you told him it was an RV and produced the paperwork to prove it that should have been the end of it. Period. The questions about using it it in work were BS, and using it two years ago for faith offerings hardly constitutes the defintion of 'Interstate Commerce'!
Then to force you to get a licenced driver to drive an RV to a inspection station, again, BS!
But the fun part is the part about persuing you for tax charges and he might take your bus! Complain my friend, and complain loudly!
Praying for you...and me...I'm madder that hell!
Jack
My NC Drivers' License is due for renewal this November (I'll also be 75..Egads, that's scary) so because I recently had a cataract removed from my left eye and no longer require glasses I stopped by the drivers license agency here in Franklin and talked to the Trooper in Charge.
We discussed my situation with the bus and he recommended that I upgrade from a Class C to a Class B, Restricted (whatever that means) to cover the weight of the bus, about 32K. I asked for the study guide and was told that Raleigh was behind in shipping them but they were expected in 2 weeks and he's hold one for me.
I asked if I could take the eye exam now and get a note from him as I can't wear my old glasses while driving anylonger but do carry a card showing the the left lens was changed on Sept. 7, 2010. He told me that should I be stopped and the issue of glasses comes up to have the Officer contact him and he'd explain the situation. Nice to live in a small town.
The accident scenario burns my butt as well and I'm not a 'turn the other cheek type'. I'd go after that Officers badge...but it's probably not possible unless the writer is a resident of MN.
NCbob
Quote from: jackhartjr on September 25, 2010, 05:52:44 PM
What a prick!
Glad you can pray for the local law there. Not sure I would have been so nice. Hope all goes well next week. Not much we can do from here but PRAY FOR YOU.
John
This does really suck. Glad it was not I. I have an entertainer bus but it is registered as a Motor home. You have the right attitude. You can cry up the chain until tears run off the back of your head. They just don't care.
This statement is the same thought they have.
QuoteI would say, get your non CDL for the class vehicle and be the better driver because of it and not have to worry.
I can tell you a story of my wife and her girlfriend. My wife's girlfriend came into town from Tulsa around 6:30pm. We sat at home talking and saying hi and what not. I went on to bed with the boy and they stayed up. They went out to Whataburger at 1:30am. On there way home they were pulled over 2 blocks from our house. The officer asked them if they had been drinking. They stated no. A second car showed up with the dash cam. They made the driver (her friend) try to take a field sobriety test. She refused because of the plates and screws in her ankle. At this point she was kind of mad for them even bothering them. She refused the Breathalyzer and the cuffed her for drunk driving. They got my wife out of the car and made her stand on the sidewalk. She was giggling about the whole thing. She stated, "Welcome to Houston Tammy". The cop turned to her and said "Houston...Do you know where you are?" She said Yes Pearland. Pearland is like a suburb south of Houston. Our borders touch. So he took her to jail for Public Intoxication. All this is on their video. When the Officer's statement was given to us he wrote she stumbled out of the truck and did not know where she was. So the next morning I got her out for $250 and Tammy for $1000. My wife's case was first we went to court three times. Once to plead not guilty. Once to get a trial by jury. Then the third time they called her up and the Judge said the case had been Quashed. So a long story longer did the night shift cop get OT for daytime court? YES did they teach her a lesson? One night in jail and three days of court? YES all to throw it out. Every time she went to court the DA asked her if she wanted to plead guilty for deferred judification. Tammy called in for her ARL hearing and that was thrown out because they did not turn in their paper work. Then she hired a lawyer. Drove back to Pearland once for court to plead not guilty. Had to fly back to Pearland for another day of court to win her case because the video did not show her to be slurring or wobbling like the officer stated and she did not loose her driver license because the ALR hearing was thrown out. Plus one state can't take another state's license from you. So she went home all is good. Who won in the end? Both are free and all was thrown out but The City feels the girls learned a lesson whether it cost them or not.
Nobody cared what the Officers stated on the report that did not match the video proof. They were clearly lying but they still patrol to serve and protect us!
So will you win your case no matter what that officer charges you with? NO! Not even if you don't have to pay the first ticket. We gave our freedom up along time ago. They are a necessary evil but they are corrupt with power.
Thought this may help.
Minnesota statutes pertaining to commercial vehicles and recreational vehicles.
Subd. 16.Commercial motor vehicle.(a) "Commercial motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle:
(1) has a gross vehicle weight of more than 26,000 pounds;
(2) has a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight of more than 10,000 pounds and the combination of vehicles has a combined gross vehicle weight of more than 26,000 pounds;
(3) is a bus;
(4) is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials that are required to be placarded under Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, parts 100-185; or
(5) is outwardly equipped and identified as a school bus, except for type A-I and type III vehicles as defined in subdivision 71.
(b) For purposes of chapter 169A:
(1) a commercial motor vehicle does not include a farm truck, an authorized emergency vehicle, or a recreational vehicle being operated by a person within the scope of section 171.02, subdivision 2, paragraph (b); and
(2) a commercial motor vehicle includes a vehicle capable of or designed to meet the standards described in paragraph (a), clause (2), whether or not the towed unit is attached to the truck-tractor at the time of the violation or stop.
Thanks artvonne I will forward that to my lawyer.
and :
171.02 Subd. 2. (c) Class D drivers' licenses are valid for:
(1) operating all farm trucks if the farm truck is:
(i) controlled and operated by a farmer, including operation by an immediate family member or an employee of the farmer;
(ii) used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery, or farm supplies, including hazardous materials, to or from a farm;
(iii) not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier as governed by Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, part 365; and
(iv) used within 150 miles of the farm;
(2) notwithstanding paragraph (b), operating an authorized emergency vehicle, as defined in section 169.011, subdivision 3, whether or not in excess of 26,000 pounds gross vehicle weight;
(3) operating a recreational vehicle as defined in section 168.002, subdivision 27, that is operated for personal use;
Whats Minnesota define an RV as?
168.002 DEFINITIONS
Subd. 27.Recreational vehicle.(a) "Recreational vehicle" means travel trailers including those that telescope or fold down, chassis-mounted campers, motor homes, tent trailers, and converted buses that provide temporary human living quarters.
(b) "Recreational vehicle" is a vehicle that:
(1) is not used as the residence of the owner or occupant;
(2) is used while engaged in recreational or vacation activities; and
(3) is either self-propelled or towed on the highways incidental to the recreational or vacation activities.
So whats a Bus?
Subd. 4.Bus; intercity bus.(a) "Bus" means (1) every motor vehicle designed for carrying more than 15 passengers including the driver and used for transporting persons, (2) every motor vehicle that is (i) designed for carrying more than ten passengers including the driver, (ii) used for transporting persons, and (iii) owned by a nonprofit organization and not operated for hire or for commercial purposes, or (3) every motor vehicle certified by the Department of Transportation as a special transportation service provider vehicle and receiving reimbursement as provided in section 256B.0625, subdivision 17.
(b) "Intercity bus" means any bus operating as a common passenger carrier over regular routes and between fixed termini, but excluding all buses operating wholly within the limits of one city, or wholly within two or more contiguous cities, or between contiguous cities and a terminus outside the corporate limits of such cities, and not more than 20 miles distant measured along the fixed route from such corporate limits.
I looked, but could find no statute for using a motor vehicle as a permanent residence in Minnesota. Guess you would have to call another state home?? Works for me, lol
Your a better Christian than I. I wish I had your level head and patience. I believe me and that fella would have to have a roll or two down in a muddy ditch. I don't have patience for anyone from the government threatening my right to be free of illegal siezure. Even if he only threatened it as in this case I would not have been so level headed. Thank goodness you are even on the keel side.
Quote from: Depewtee on September 26, 2010, 07:34:47 AM
1. A vehicle that is controlled and operated by a farmer; and used to transport agricultural products...
Hmmm. So if I wear bib overalls and carry a few chickens I might be O.K.? ;D
Id just be really careful up there, bibs and chickens may not work either.
Mr. Rick:
I also am happy to hear you are all o.k.
But as a former law enforcement person, fellow busnut and also Christian believer, I exhort you to take this to the next step. We must stop injustice, even if it is hiding in cowardice behind a badge. Every person who receives the harassment from that low-life officer after your experience will be on your good conscience, if you do not act. Plus you have a friend who is a lawyer.
Maybe we need to surround the police station with buses to get the attention of the media to this injustice.
Don't we also have Family Motor Coach Assn members here who can scream to their organization that Minnesota is harassing RVers?
Quote from: Mex-Busnut on September 26, 2010, 08:18:02 PM
Mr. Rick:
I also am happy to hear you are all o.k.
But as a former law enforcement person, fellow busnut and also Christian believer, I exhort you to take this to the next step. We must stop injustice, even if it is hiding in cowardice behind a badge. Every person who receives the harassment from that low-life officer after your experience will be on your good conscience, if you do not act. Plus you have a friend who is a lawyer.
Maybe we need to surround the police station with buses to get the attention of the media to this injustice.
Don't we also have Family Motor Coach Assn members here who can scream to their organization that Minnesota is harassing RVers?
Excellent post!! This could help all of us!
Quote from: happycamperbrat on September 26, 2010, 09:16:10 PM
Excellent post!! This could help all of us!
It could also backfire. The media in Minnesota are as corrupt as the police. They say what they are told because if they dont, they are threatened they will lose access to future stories. They walk a very fine line. I would not be at all surprised to see the media use the opportunity to allow State Patrol to rage about these dangerous overweight vehicles being driven by senile people who arent qualifed (in their opinion) and who may be evading taxes by using the bus as a cover for commercial operations. They could then argue these should have cdl requirements and dot inspections, and on and on and ...... Slipery slopes are, well, slipery.
The best way, IMHO, is to change out the people who make laws and get people with common sense in charge to undo the ones that dont make sense. We dont need more Lawyers, we need Anti-lawyers
In the meantime, just wait and have your day in court. The charges are rediculous enough the judge should throw them out. Just dont take any deal from the DA.
I found it interesting that in the definition of an RV was: (1) is not used as the residence of the owner or occupant;
I wonder what that does to people who full-time - what is their vehicle defined as?
Brian
Quote from: bevans6 on September 27, 2010, 03:18:25 AM
I found it interesting that in the definition of an RV was: (1) is not used as the residence of the owner or occupant;
I wonder what that does to people who full-time - what is their vehicle defined as?
Brian
Minnesota is not the state you would want to use for a home state. Look it up on the web, I think the FMCC listed 12 that are best to choose. Mn does not allow you to use a PO box for a resident address, so they wouldnt allow full time liviing in an RV.
This is exactly the reason I argued so strongly against requiring RV owners to have CDL's and have their rigs DOT'd. Its just another way for states like Mn. to use laws against its citizens. I lived there long enough to know rotten cheese when I smelled it. It would be one thing if these Bus Conversions were out slaughtering everyone in site, but its just not the case.
Hey Rick, just wanted to say, excellent work remaining calm and peaceful in the face of ignorance.
Rick, I have to agree with Mex-Busnut. I fully understand not wanting to jeopardize your testimony as a believer. However, that does not preclude you from using the available procedures to report abuses of authority. You can still do it calmly and respectfully. I would wait until AFTER your own legal issues are resolved, however. No use poking the dog with a stick before the fight. But, afterwards, I would follow whatever procedures apply in that state for filing a complaint against the officer. It seems to me you have multiple causes of action:
1. Failure to properly investigate the incident. The fact that the woman admitted guilt and there were witnesses who were never interviewed seems to be a gross failure.
2. Ignorance of applicable law. It is HIS responsibility to know the law he is tasked with enforcing.
3. Abuse of power. It appears he went out of his way to go after you and even told the DOT officer something to get him on the train as well.
Now, your complaint may come to nothing immediately. But it does start a paper-trail that may be of benefit to some poor soul down the road who has a run-in with the same guy. A cop who has a documented history of abuse complaints eventually has a credibility issue in court and becomes a problem for his department.
I had a far better experience with the Nevada State Patrol when I had the axle fall off my trailer last Wednesday evening.
The officer's only concern was that nobody got hurt and that the axle was off the highway. He didn't ask for my name, license, registration, or insurance. He didn't write a report. I think it helped that he was he was just getting off duty when he got the call and was supposed to have been at home by then.
Hey all,
I'm going to let these guys make the next move. I have no plans to pursue anything other than getting out of this unless this DOT conrinues on the path he started. Although I disagree with their evaluation of the accident, my bus, mu license they didn't do much but disagree with me and waste about 3 hours of my time and try to make me feel like I'm ignorant and I stress try because it didn't work then and it won't work now. I have been cuffed and thrown in the back seat of a cruiser a few years back because I decided to "argue" at the scene. I am all about arguing in a court of law. But I think that I don't have case of harassment yet. I don't feel they harassed me, threatened me yes, but if I was guilty of what they accused me of it would be within their powers to seize my vehicle. That is a fact. Whether I like it or not. We win and lose these things with witneses, videotape, elections.
But as long as there are people with power there will be a minority who will abuse that power.
And sometimes it will be me...
When I'm quick to anger with my kids or wife or those that work under me at my Church.
I really do appreciate all your passion for our rights as RV owners but the bottom line is, in my humble opinion. Do not be surprised if you are pulled over with a bunch of stuffed animals in your bays and a "stuffed animal for sale sign" in your coach. They will prosecute you whether you or I like it or not. Also, be careful about having any kind of office in your bus and remove any signs that suggest a passenger # anywhere in your bus because these governemnt agencies are in danger of huge layoff's with out finding new revenue streams to justify their existence.
I feel that at this point, they haven't done anything that I would consider harassment, inconvenient yes, Harassment no.
Thanks ,
Rick
Thank goodness I live in Texas! ;D
My vehicle registration states that my GM Buffalo 4905A is 1974/GMC/MH weight is below 26,001 pounds so I can operate/drive it with a Class C Texas drivers license.
Note! MH stands for motor home.
I have never had a problem from any law enforcement officer while I have been operating my coach conversion.
Perhaps I have been very lucky!
As far as local or Texas state law enforcement officers I think the Texas Department of Public Safety or DPS officers as they are called are just a little above the local county or city officers of course this is my opinion others might think different.
I have a idea that some states and cities are using the state and DOT rules and regulations for ways to gain extra revenue from folks that own a coach conversion due to their state tax revenue being lower due to the recession that we are in. ???
I will stand down from my Soap Box and wish you well with your case and the out come is in your favor. ;D
I don't want to drift too far off the thread but...I do know of one company that ran a fleet of entertainers registered as motor homes. Those who obey the rules are often caused a lot of grief by those who don't.
First off, Rick, I want to extend my condolences. At least nobody was hurt, but it is still a huge bother.
Second off, I have will be waiting to see what will unfold here. I do have a vested interest here ;).
The Kansas statutes describe a commercial vehicle....see below.
Quotecommercial motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle designed or used to transport passengers or property, if:
(1) The vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds or such lesser rating, as determined by rules and regulations adopted by the secretary, but shall not be more restrictive than the federal regulation;
(2) the vehicle is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(3) the vehicle is transporting hazardous materials and is required to be placarded in accordance with 49 C.F.R. 172, subpart F;
The only thing that I see is it saying over 26K. It doesn't say anything about carrying goods for sale at an end destination, or anything....
Anybody know what gives?
I really am trying to learn.
God bless,
John
Len, you said, "I don't want to drift too far off the thread but...I do know of one company that ran a fleet of entertainers registered as motor homes. Those who obey the rules are often caused a lot of grief by those who don't."
I actually found that out during inspections in TN and CA several years back...those compamies did not like it when I told them the defintion of 'Interstate Commerce' as it pertained to them. I think one of the guys would have done me harm if I had givin him a chance!
Quote from: artvonne on September 27, 2010, 03:45:52 AM
Minnesota is not the state you would want to use for a home state. Look it up on the web, I think the FMCC listed 12 that are best to choose. Mn does not allow you to use a PO box for a resident address, so they wouldnt allow full time liviing in an RV.
Does anyone know where this list can be found? I'd be interested to see where they chose and their rationale for choosing those states.
Mike
John,
The 26,001lbs threshold is for the requirement of a CDL. 10,000lbs is actually the weight at which a vehicle is considered commercial, IF it's engaged in commerce.
Read the second paragraph at this link:
http://www.kansashighwaypatrol.org/faqs/cmv.html (http://www.kansashighwaypatrol.org/faqs/cmv.html)
The phrase: "hauling your own materials in the furtherance of your own commercial enterprise" is lifted from the federal regulation guidelines and that is how they get you.
Bob
Quote from: artvonne on September 26, 2010, 06:21:55 PM
I looked, but could find no statute for using a motor vehicle as a permanent residence in Minnesota. Guess you would have to call another state home?? Works for me, lol
Quote from: artvonne
Subd. 27.Recreational vehicle.(a) "Recreational vehicle" means travel trailers including those that telescope or fold down, chassis-mounted campers, motor homes, tent trailers, and converted buses that provide temporary human living quarters.
(b) "Recreational vehicle" is a vehicle that:
(1) is not used as the residence of the owner or occupant;
(2) is used while engaged in recreational or vacation activities; and
(3) is either self-propelled or towed on the highways incidental to the recreational or vacation activities.
Please note subd. 27(b)(1). I think that answers your question. :)
Minnesota: Land of 10,000 Lakes and 50,000,000 Mosquitoes. (this has nothing to do with the post, btw). ;D
Mike
Well Rick, I feel for you, as I'm sure you probably already know...
Your first mistake was talking to the cop. You should have handed him your license and registration, and referred all questions to your attorney.
You should also have refused him the right to search your person or vehicle of even to look at the mfg tag. The only information he needed to have was printed by the state
on your registration.
You should have requested he call his supervisor out to the scene when he began threatening you. Not that he would have complied, and even if you had made the call
the cops would have laughed at you and refused. BTDT.
You probably have a case against the woman who caused the accident, as well as the cop for not doing a proper investigation and for harassment (and yes, he did harass you if
what you describe is accurate). I suggest you talk to your attorney and pursue it.
Filing a complaint with DOT will do absolutely no good. As you know, ALL cops in this state are corrupt, as are all prosecutors and judges. You cannot win, even if you are found
not guilty of the charges. They'll fabricate other charges to stick on you. BTDT... recently!!
I wish you well.
Quote from: MikeH on October 06, 2010, 11:21:27 AM
Please note subd. 27(b)(1). I think that answers your question. :)
Minnesota: Land of 10,000 Lakes and 50,000,000 Mosquitoes. (this has nothing to do with the post, btw). ;D
Mike
My point was that MN has no option for using your motorhome as a permanent residence. You have to have a permanent address to be issued a DL and to title and register a vehicle there. They wont allow you to use a P.O.
However, the USPS wont allow you to purchase a PO Box without a private address either. You would have to buy a private box somewhere.
I have no idea why any fulltimer would choose MN as a home state anyhow. Plenty of other states with lower taxes and such. I currently live in MN and plan to stay, but I wouldn't keep my base here if I decided to go full time.
Besides the crazy and corrupt legal system in Minnesota, the size of the mosquitoes:
Quote from: gumpy on October 06, 2010, 06:52:47 PM
Well Rick, I feel for you, as I'm sure you probably already know...
Your first mistake was talking to the cop. You should have handed him your license and registration, and referred all questions to your attorney.
You should also have refused him the right to search your person or vehicle of even to look at the mfg tag. The only information he needed to have was printed by the state
on your registration.
You should have requested he call his supervisor out to the scene when he began threatening you. Not that he would have complied, and even if you had made the call
the cops would have laughed at you and refused. BTDT.
You probably have a case against the woman who caused the accident, as well as the cop for not doing a proper investigation and for harassment (and yes, he did harass you if
what you describe is accurate). I suggest you talk to your attorney and pursue it.
Filing a complaint with DOT will do absolutely no good. As you know, ALL cops in this state are corrupt, as are all prosecutors and judges. You cannot win, even if you are found
not guilty of the charges. They'll fabricate other charges to stick on you. BTDT... recently!!
I wish you well.
I could have not said it better myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You Know Rick and I am glade you spoke up I thought it but was being nice. Rick will have to fight this battle but others should hear what you have said. Right or wrong we have rights in this country and WE need to strand up for them.
John