Ok, so for now I have narrowed my choices down to 3 buses to seriously consider:
#1 pick- 1963 GMC 4106 owned by a fellow member of the site. He hasn't given me a price yet, but did mention that it is in the price range I had laid out in the forums. Also, I haven't seen the interior, but if it's as clean inside as it is out, I don't think I could go wrong. 6 year old EXCHANGE engine from Diesel Exchange 20,000 miles on that engine. New clutch at that time. 4 speed spicer. Jake brake. 2 roof airs, in motion sat dish, queen bed, bath with shower/tub, 6500 watt Onan. Ref, range, convection microwave. All new bags about 2 years ago. Stored inside. Tires have 20,000 miles but are 7 years old.
#2 pick- http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/rvs/1924115192.html
#3 pick- http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/rvs/1940217608.html This one, I am going to go look at on Monday with a mechanic. If the engine is good, I might make an offer and think I could get away with it for around 7, but I think it will need some work (new holding tanks, electrical, engine work, etc.)
That #3 pick looks like it might have been sold already.. This is what I got when I went to the link:
This posting has been deleted by its author.
(The title on the listings page will be removed in just a few minutes.)
Weird he removed it, but I know for a fact it hasn't sold. I have an outing planned to go check it out on Monday with a mechanic ;D
.
I dont know what the other two look like, but the one at Hemet is sure purty!
Yeah, she just sent me some more pics of it, and it looks like it is the real deal, ready to go, and i'd only have to drive to cali to get it....... ;D ;D ;D
QuoteWeird he removed it, but I know for a fact it hasn't sold. I have an outing planned to go check it out on Monday with a mechanic
You need to verify everything is still on. You wouldn't be the first one to show up and to find the item sold even with a firm appointment. BTDT. It was a good thing the seller I was dealing with was not at home when I showed up. I would not have acted civilly.
I couldn't get your link to work.
Quoteshe just sent me some more pics of it, and it looks like it is the real deal
Great!
Quote from: Barn Owl on September 11, 2010, 11:48:10 AM
QuoteWeird he removed it, but I know for a fact it hasn't sold. I have an outing planned to go check it out on Monday with a mechanic
You need to verify everything is still on. You wouldn't be the first one to show up and to find the item sold even with a firm appointment. BTDT. It was a good thing the seller I was dealing with was not at home when I showed up. I would not have acted civilly.
I couldn't get your link to work.
I will quadruple check, but I have an email from today confirming the appointment, and the link still works for me. But I know what you mean. I have gone to buy things from classifieds before where the owner said to come get it, and then it's gone when I get there :-\
As the distance from home increases, my trust in sellers decreases. Ive been burned so many times, driving a long way only to find they had just sold the item. Of the few people ive spoken to who had busses for sale, most of them have acted very independent.
Curious what you found with that first 4104 you looked at. It looked good in the ad, did it have problems???
The one you are referencing is pick #3, and is the one I am going to look at on Monday ;D
Quote from: jordansinthesky on September 11, 2010, 11:55:18 AM
I will quadruple check, but I have an email from today confirming the appointment, and the link still works for me. But I know what you mean. I have gone to buy things from classifieds before where the owner said to come get it, and then it's gone when I get there :-\
Click on that #3 link and when you get there, If you are still getting the bus then hit the "Ctrl and F5" key at the same time and see if the page doesn't reload and say it's been deleted. Sometimes those pages will stay in your cach memory and not load correctly.
Sure enough. oh well, it probably wont matter because I am in love with #2. I am trying to get some pics up that they sent me. This bus is fantastic inside!!! try this. https://cid-fc49697e409ed4ba.photos.live.com/play.aspx/1957%20GM%204104%20Converted%20Bus%20-%20$17500%20%5E5Hemet%5E6?Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos
(you have to copy and paste the whole link for it to work.)
Can't get to it... It is asking for a login and password.
That's what I was worried about. I am trying to get some pics up. Bear with me ;)
Check this one out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1948-GMC-Silverside-RV-Bus-Conversion-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35ac57a644QQitemZ230524692036QQptZRVsQ5fCampers (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1948-GMC-Silverside-RV-Bus-Conversion-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35ac57a644QQitemZ230524692036QQptZRVsQ5fCampers)
That's an awesome oldie, but a little too old for me I think. Would love to go ride in her though!!
Made an offer on #2. I'm in love!
Good Luck, That is a fine coach indeed! 8)
Paul
Yeah that's a nice looking '04. If the paper work is there taht looks like a very tight bus. Only probem is you may never learn anything but maintenance on that bus. Now my bus...it's a !@#%^*! university ;D
BTW on this site the easiest way to post pics (especially as they don't need to be sized (shrunk really) is to post you pics on a free site like photobucket or similar and then copy past the IMG link here. You can also make an album and C&P the link so we can see all the pics.
Excellent choice!!!
I'm starting to get a little frustrated. I made an offer on the 04 in San Diego 3 days ago and haven't heard anything back. I sent another email yesterday trying to confirm the first one, and still nothin. :-X
I'm in SD. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
Mike
Quote from: jordansinthesky on September 15, 2010, 11:53:29 AM
I'm starting to get a little frustrated. I made an offer on the 04 in San Diego 3 days ago and haven't heard anything back. I sent another email yesterday trying to confirm the first one, and still nothin. :-X
Have you spoken to them by phone, or just sent emails back and forth?? Have you seen the Bus in person, or just pictues??
Only emailed, and only seen pictures.
well shoot! either they had some emergency or something which put them off line or they are having 2nd thoughts on selling it or maybe a personal war over selling it....... dang! But if it isnt meant to be, then it isnt and there are plenty of real nice buses out there right now. It is a really good time to buy!
Just so you know....some folks take it as a personal insult when you make an offer they don't like. They kind of act like you are trying to rob them. Same goes for bids on jobs. I made a bid on some remodels fpr a good client a couple of years ago. They thought the price was way too high....haven't heard from them since, won't return my calls. At this point they have lost so much face (they hired another guy, he charged them cost +, it ended up costing more than my bid, and the work was substandard) pride makes it difficult for people. Stay nice with them....they may realize the market is where it is., and if so then you will have a deal.
You made them an offer. They may have someone else kicking tires also. But if I was serious about selling I would sure keep you on the hook even if I wasn't letting it go for your offer.
I ended up speaking to a gentleman in SD who was very gracious. He just hadn't had a chance to get back to me. He said that my offer wasn't near what he needs, but that he will come down a couple grand on the price if I can do it. I still need to look at the 4106 in MO and make a decision between the two. Looking good!
YOu need to see if you can find a SD busnut to give that bus a peek. It is pretty hard to buy a bus unseen. Pictures can really misrepresent....both the good and the bad.
So I am heading out to San Diego to check out the 4104. I'm making it a skydiving/surfing/look at bus trip ;D I have a couple questions:
1- Does anybody know any busnuts in the SD area that might be willing to go look this thing over with me on Sunday afternoon.
2- I'm trying to compose a list of questions to ask the owner about setup, electrical, etc. etc. etc. Please shout out any crucial things you would ask about a bus you were looking at.
Thanks guys!
When I bought my bus I was in your same boat. I made offers to everybody that was selling. I did not care if they wanted 80,000 or 30,000. I finally found one that took it. After I bought it I had people calling months later taking me up on my original offer. I mostly depends on how long it has been for sale before they realize cash is king. They go through a buyer or two that can't get financing before they figure out that it is only worth what someone will give them. If you do not have 50 emails out with offers you have not looked hard enough.
Thanks for the reply, but that doesn't really answer my question. Believe me I have looked long and hard, and this seems to be the diamond in the rough. I have spent hours on the phone with the owner talking buses etc. and am spending the night with him and his wife this weekend. He and his dad built this bus from the ground up, and have been the only converted owners. This is huge to me. All the other buses I've looked at/made offers on, have been half way across the country and just seem a little sketchy.
Soooo, back to my last post...Anybody know some SD busnuts, and what are the major questions to ask before buying. I will NOT be coming home with a bus from this trip. Only info. Please arm me with the right questions.
I can't help you with a contact in S.D. but the important stuff to look at is the expensive stuff. Get underneath it and wiggle the brake parts, look for wear in the cams, worn out shoes, ridges on the drums. See how bad it smokes when you start it cold and how long it takes to clear up. Wiggle the drag link, have somebody wiggle the wheel and look for wear in the ball joints, check to see if the steer tires are wearing evenly. That's the stuff that will cost serious bucks to fix - the conversion items are relatively inexpensive to fix.
Thank you. That was exactly what I am looking for. Hopefully I can find someone to go with me because I am a 24 year old bus noob, and have no idea how to do all the things you mentioned. This trip is basically a "do I really want this thing" trip. The next trip will involve a trip to a bus mechanic, and if everything is good, a drive home : )
Somewhere on this site I came across a list of things to check on a 4104, or a Bus at least, cant recall exactly. I tried finding it again through a search but came up empty handed. If anyone knows where to find it, this would be a good place to post it.
Earlier in this thread I offered to help, however I'm bussing around out of town for the next few weeks. Bob @ HB-industries would be a good mechanical resource. He advertises in the mag and I think I've seen it on this site. His number is 619-561-9048. You might PM irstaxhelp to see if he has time. I don't know anybody else in SD.
Mike
thanks guys. I will try those resources. That's why i love this place : )
Check for rust inside the bay doors, and around the window and windshield frames. Before you go get the serial number, post it here and try to find out the original owner of the bus others here may know about maintenance or lack of by the original bus company who owned the bus.
I would try to get a maint manual and maybe even an operators manual before you go and study them and take them with you so you know what you are looking at when you examine the bus.
Check the airbags, the air beams above the airbags. do not get under the coach to look without it being on blocks, if you are under it and twist an airline and break it you can get crushed. Look for rust around the airbeams where the airbags bolt up.
As said try to find out about the brakes, I have receipts from the previous owner of my 4104 of pretty much going completely thru the brakes on both axles, the total bill parts and labor was over $6000.00 for the brake job.
Mine at fast idle has oil pressure above 40lbs, at idle it will be lower. (Start the bus when it is cold (you know the owner has not started it in a while) and as said see if you get much smoke. Drive it and watch the temperature and oil pressure, mine does not get over 180 degrees even in a hard pull.
Google how to date tires and look for the tire date code, even if the tires look good they may not be, if they are over 8 years old you are looking at replacements no matter how much tread is left. As said I would worry about the mechanical condition of the bus more than the conversion that has been done.
Check the drive line carefully, look for loose joints and make sure the drive line has been lubricated. Check the engine cradle carefully, look for cracks, welds or anything that does not look right. Check power steering parts for leaks, look at where the bus has been parked for excessive antifreeze or oil leaks.
CHECK THE MUFFLER AND EXHAUST MANIFOLD VERY CAREFULLY FOR LEAKS AND EXCESSIVE RUST!!!!! CAN YOU YELL FIRE! FIRE! LOUDLY???
Bus should build air pressure within a few minutes, when it gets up to about 100 lbs pump the brake pedal and see if the low air warning buzzer comes on at about 60 lbs. If you are not used to driving something weighting 24000 lbs with air brakes get a commercial CDL class A test study book from your state and study up on air brake systems.
Check the emergency shut off switch and make sure it is working, I would not drive a 671 very far without an working emergency shut off switch. Check the clutch engagement, if you are not used to driving a diesel do not give it fuel to get rolling from a dead start, get the bus rolling and then give it fuel, drive it hard with the fuel pedal about 1" off the floor, ( don't drive it with the pedal to the floor) watch in your mirror if you see black smoke go to a lower gear to get the RPM"S up. Here in the hills on a lot of the 2 lane highways I run mine in 3rd gear. Don't dog or lug the 671.
Check around both front and rear hubs for signs of wheel bearing grease leaks, my 59 4104 has packable wheel bearings on both the steer and drive axles. If there is excessive grease around the hubs I would question the condition of the seals and bearings.
The longer I have my 4104 the more amazed I am about the engineering that went into this bus. They were build to give miles and miles of trouble free service if maintained. I love mine and hope you the best. All this is just off the top of my head I am sure there is much more to think about.
Rick
Thank you Rick for taking the time to make that detailed post. I will try and check as many of these things as I can on this trip. But like I have said before, I am very new/inexperienced with buses and mechanics (on anything other than aircraft.) Luckily, this trip is only going to be a looksee to determine if it is worth bringing a mechanic/busnut out to check it over with an expert eye. I spoke with bob from hb industries, but it seemed like he was more interested in selling one of his buses, and I don't think I could get him up there to look at this one. I am going to try and get down to look at his buses as well though. So In the next couple of weeks I will try and find someone in the San Diego/Hemet area to come take an un-biased look at this bus.
FWIW 'round here some of the old transit mechanics that used to work for the city still wrench on the heritage machines the city keeps. If SD has anything like that, these guys know the old buses, and as the old GM city buses were quite similar to 4104 you might get lucky in SD. From my perspective old '04 are all about maintenance, with all new fluids and an IR sensor you should be able to get it where you need it. Also aluminum also corrodes so be vigilant. Around the front lectric panel check for moisture problems, and check out the soundness of the subfloor throughout the bus.
Awesome Awesome Awesome post Rick!! Where were you when I went shopping for mine?
Jordan, these people have all given you fabulous advice and I really have nothing to add other then to stress what Rick said about getting the manual, operators book and DO NOT crawl under the bus without wooden blocks (not cement).
Oh and, take lots of pictures cuz people here can give their opinions and advice to help you better and the people here like bus porn!
Good Luck in San Diego!!
Oh and start a new thread with Looking for busnut help in San diego in the title, that should do it.
So, I'm writing this for the second time lol. I met and looked at 'penguin', the 04 in San Diego. The owner is very nice, honest, and helpful. He did the conversion with his father, and he has all the original manuals, as well as the maintenance manual in a binder all in sheet protectors. He has a binder with ALL of the appliance manuals and receipts for all work done on engine, clutch, etc.
Details:
Serial # pd41042306
Drove with anaconda bus lines out of Mt.
Electrical is set up for 30 amp
Trace 2500 inverter
7.5 Onan with less than 200 hours showing on the hobbs
Engine re-built adding jake brakes about 2,000 miles ago. New clutch.
Original 4 speed transmission. Is this bad?
All tires and batteries 7 months old
Sheppard power steering
Original airbags, but reported to hold the bus up for weeks with no leaks. Each air bag is modified onto it's own valve for "redneck leveling"
Bay doors/exterior all in great shape. Minor dings and scratches.
That's all I wrote down, but got lots more info. Please ask me important questions. I want to be as informed as possible. Going back with a mechanic in a couple weeks, and if all is well will be driving her home. Pics are here:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa323/jordansinthesky/ (http://s1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa323/jordansinthesky/)
nice coach, jordan good luck , and enjoy
Is picture 47 showing signs of old leaking? Otherwise it is VERY nice lookin!!
I did think of something else to check, the fan blade on the 4104's have been know to come off, this will ruin your day, and your radiator, check the fan for any play or movement. The bus looks good!!
Rick
looks good. If you like the layout and can live in it say no more. One ? what did the engine rebuild indicate? There are various levels of rebuild, from a spray can of paint to big end bearings, to new/ re-machined almost everything.
Quote from: happycamperbrat on October 03, 2010, 10:28:25 PM
Is picture 47 showing signs of old leaking? Otherwise it is VERY nice lookin!!
I was wondering the same thing about picture 43. Are the rear curtains showing water stains?
Nice coach.
Those are the questions i am looking for. As per the water stuff in those two pictures, I wondered the same thing and asked and looked. Other than on the curtains there didn't seem to be any signs of water damage. The seals looked great as they were replaced semi-recently, and the bus has spent most of it's converted life covered. Same thing in the closet. What I was told is that the owners parents had spent a decent amount of time in a humid climate and that is where the water marks come from. I couldn't see any sign of water coming in any windows or seals.
As per the engine rebuild, all cylinders were honed and new pistons, rings, seals, etc. converted to 4 valves and jake brakes added. Not sure what else without looking. Definitely wasn't a spray paint job. Also, it will be getting all new injectors before purchase : )
Im suspicious, sorry. But with the seals being replaced recently..... and there signs of water damage (see photo 46 too) I would be curious if there was rust in the window track that had broken thru and new seals were slapped on it to cover it up and sell it..... I dont know much about your bus style and could be way off, but my red flags are going off.
I know you want a perfect coach..it's not going to happen in you price requirements.So if it runs and drives good and the systems work the value is there. you can address the leaks and cosmetic issues later.Gives you something to work on and become more familiar with your new found hobby.You can park rite next to the 2 million dollar coaches and enjoy the same view and maybe be able to afford a beer. Bob
Thanks Bob, I agree. I can't be splitting hairs at this point. I'm just really hoping that the mechanics are AOK and that I can be living in and working on my new home soon.
really seems like a good bus to me. Wish I had started with something this tight. The rebuild if properly documented is a major bonus, watch the temp and oil and drive it forever.
What is everyone's opinion on the fact that the transmission is original? It has a new clutch, but the tranny itself is from 1957. Is this as scary as it seems? Other than this the bus is like a dream I can't wait to get.
from what I understand that box is strong. No synchros to break. if it works now, and you are gentle with it it should work forever....unless you are planning on putting millions of miles on it. There is an aspect of "scary" in any old vehicle. The '04 is easy to care for, and easy to fix. If you 're concerned about the tranny, warm it on a run, drain the old oil put in some new oil (proper spec mind you)
Don't worry about the trans. They were built tough.
My Courier 96 (1957) has the original tranny: still feels as good and tight as when I used to drive them in the '70s.
Looks like a good bus. If the price is right, take it home and resume the ongoing maintenance that comes with running any kind of machinery. That is routine maint. like changing fluids and lubing, preventive maint. and fixing/replacing things When they break. The more of the former you do at home, the less of the latter will happen on the side of the road.
You have to be willing to accept that, or else go buy a S and S that comes with a warranty and roadside assistance.
Make your best deal, drive it home and enjoy it.
JC
Quote from: jordansinthesky on October 06, 2010, 04:29:19 PM
What is everyone's opinion on the fact that the transmission is original? It has a new clutch, but the tranny itself is from 1957. Is this as scary as it seems? Other than this the bus is like a dream I can't wait to get.
It is a year newer than me, so it is young :D