I am leaving, probable for a while and I'll be back, but I have a deep and serious anger at this point in time about the casual approach to basic and fundamental safety shown by far too many on the now-infamous "Air compressor" thread. I think that when someone, me or anyone, decides to run a decades old commercial vehicle, long past it's useful life, as a hobby there just has to be some acceptance that you have to do it right. You have to abide by certain fundamental, lowest common denominator levels of quality in what you do. The idea of running a 30,000 lb bus on public roads with a faulty air brake system, no compressor, relying on a jury rig of a generator or and inverter running an electric compressor tied into the brake system with a jury rig cross a line in the sand for me. It's wrong. It's wrong on many levels, from BG6 having recently lost loved ones to a brake failure accident that, who know, may have been prevented with real and proper maintenance, to an attitude of "I know best, I'm an experienced operator, I can handle it" when you really can't.
I may be back, because I felt like I had a bit of fun here and sure as heck learned a lot and tried to contribute, but for now, have fun, be safe and try not to die from some bone headed stupid accident.
Moderators, please actually delete my account this time. I was a trifle offended by deleting it two days ago and nothing happening.
Thank you.
Brian Evans
Hate to see you leave. Hopefully you'll return with a less anal attitude. We are not over the road truck fleets. We're just guys with old busses that someone gave up on (busses and owners! ;)). Most of us never cover several thousand miles a year except for those that know whats going on and are really thorough. Living by dot standards would basically render this forum mute. Best of luck.
Personally I find it really sad that you would bail out of a forum which you "had a bit of fun here and sure as heck learned a lot and tried to contribute " and all because you disagree with one persons experience one time which he dared to share with us.
If I quit every time my feelings were hurt or I disagreed with something someone did there would be a revolving door on my account.
I sincerely hope that you do come back but I also hope that you'll lighten up a bit and learn not to let things like that get you so bent out of shape. You just can't allow yourself to get that bothered by it all. Good luck and come back after you cool off.
WAH. :'(
Strong fealings and emotions make me get older faster so I make light of things that used to get me worked up. It took me 50 years to learn this and now have a happier life now by ten fold.......relax a bit.....cool down.....drink beer........sometime we will all look back at this and laugh.......peace.....s...
Brian,
Since many of us have buses that constantly make us wonder about the sanity of the PO, it should be of no surprise that lots of questionable things are done. This is not only true in this hobby but in just about every phase of life. If you really feel that some are being unsafe, it would be better for you to hang around and promote safer practices. Who knows, you may even save some lives. Also, you would continue to learn and benefit from the experiences, both good and bad, of others. Hope to hear from you soon.
Brian,
I hope you will reconsider. All of us have different perspectives and different levels of training and understanding on subjects. It is easy to consider someone elses actions as dangerous by what we can assume as commonly known and accepted standards.
I hope that we use the forum as an opportunity to educate others on dangers that we know. I know I have done some things in the past, such as crawling under an aired up suspension without any safety support, that I wouldn't even think of today. I learned of the danger of my previous action from a forum such as this.
I have a degree in engineering and consider myself a relatively savvy mechanic, yet I made a mistake and NEVER thought about it. Someone, perhaps like you, made me think.
The trick for me is to try to pass on what I have learned without getting preachy about it. All we can do is share what we know, and our reasons for stating our opinions.
I really hope you will reconsider. I have enjoyed your posts and your insight.
Brian While I agree that it was probably not a safe thing to do and you are correct in pointing it out I think you should lighten up. Taking off because not everyone thinks this guy should be hung is immature. If you had just pointed it out that would have been fine but then you proceeded to hound and nag and insist that everyone agreed with you and if they did not condemn him you pounced on them also. Take a chill pill . If you feel that you must leave then do so its your loss. IMHO
Quote from: Paladin on August 28, 2010, 04:33:46 PM
Personally I find it really sad that you would bail out of a forum which you "had a bit of fun here and sure as heck learned a lot and tried to contribute " and all because you disagree with one persons experience one time which he dared to share with us.
You don't get it.
He's upset that so many people here are DEFENDING the guy who did it and think that it's no big thing.
Quote from: Lin on August 28, 2010, 05:36:51 PMIf you really feel that some are being unsafe, it would be better for you to hang around and promote safer practices. Who knows, you may even save some lives.
Oh, yeah, just like everyone is paying attention in the other thread.
The only people who think it's important are the ones who always DID.
we weren't defending him we have some compassion for him
You know as the new guy here I don't feel like I have a dog in this hunt, but I appreciate anyone who shares with me that doing something this or that way may be an unsafe practice.
But I also, appreciate that not everyone falls for the idea that there's only one way to do something...I being one of those.
I am working on a Scenicruiser, and also building an experimental airplane. The FAA is about as anal as anyone! Even though the plane is experimental, I find that I still have to follow FAA guidelines even though they may not call my plane out. CYA.
Having said that, we all need to remember that while doing something a certain way may work fine..maybe even better than the OE design, when we do stray from convention, if an accident occurs the lawyer of any victims is gonna take you down.
The net sometimes makes us sound less personable than we intend, and tempers get flared. I don't think anyone should leave the group, but know when to stop following a subject as it gets out of hand. For sure, don't take things personally, even when you're right and feel like nobody is listening. MHO
Boyce
Brian .just posted to BG6 it goes for you also.safe bussing Bob
bevans6 , I hate to see you announce this for your passion is something we all need to have things sink in. With your reasons you have against something is what a newbee or vet that has not been in a particular situation yet needs. To be honest I would have probably never thought twice of using an electric compressor to get me home. I don't think I would do it now. It's not because I would want to be unsafe but it would be because at the time I would have thought it was a clever idea. Safety is something I take very seriously but it is also something you learn. That's why kids will grab the burner on the stove if not taught not to. We all do stupid things but don't just give up on us. Stay and state you passion and if one or two don't pick up on it fifty of us might. If you really do decide to leave I hope it is not for long and know your participation was appreciated. Good luck in you decision and if you linger and read, feel free if you see something i can use your help on please PM me. I will keep it our secret ;)
Quote from: BG6 on August 28, 2010, 05:45:16 PM
Quote from: Paladin on August 28, 2010, 04:33:46 PM
Personally I find it really sad that you would bail out of a forum which you "had a bit of fun here and sure as heck learned a lot and tried to contribute " and all because you disagree with one persons experience one time which he dared to share with us.
You don't get it.
He's upset that so many people here are DEFENDING the guy who did it and think that it's no big thing.
No, I fully understand the tantrums from both those involved trying to control and force their will on others and then crying when they don't get their way.
I'm convinced now. We all need to get rid of these junkers and buy a brand new Prevost conversion. Besides, we can fix the economy overnight.
Not fair!!! Im a newbee and trying to learn as much as I can about my new to me bus and this strange but exciting world of bus rebuilding. I really NEED people to speak out when something is not DOT and what the problem is so I can learn. I liked what he did with the air compressor (though I have some issue with 1200 miles) I liked it because if Im ever stranded with my kids I will know what to do and because of you guys I will know that what Im doing is illegal and probably unsafe and places I can go to get a new compressor. All of this makes ME a safer driver on the road and helps MY family. Please dont go.
Let's all have some understanding when someone decides to leave us. We want them back and it doesn't do any good to make negative comments.
This forum is for Newbies and Seasoned Veterans that have interests in our hobby.
Please follow the rules for posting regarding comments about someone.
Paul
If I become inSALTed, does that make me a seasoned veteran? ( I can't believe I sunk that low, I'm incredibaly bored this morning I guess, sorry peoples)
Cody, you are such an inspiration1 I think I'm going to go get bored now too. Thanks for that.
Len,
Love your humor in this thread and others, BTW, so as I can get my own New Prevost, Are you hiring.....
Take care, Keep it funny.
Gary
I don't think Brian's thoughts should be ignored. I ran the road for 21 years and 1.3 million miles worth and saw many a crash. The crashes with S&S motorhomes were unbelievable at times-one of the many reasons I converted a bus. Now also converting a truck for the same strength issues.
Most don't realize how much energy is built up in a 10-20 ton vehicle-especially with the ease at which the buses run with power steering, automatics, etc. The destructive force is unbelievable. Just look at what happened this last week in Santa Barbara when a double bottom dump lost its' brakes and plowed into a house killing all three of a family.
Even though buses do last a long time, they are still commercially built vehicles that are EXPENSIVE to repair and to run. If you don't have the funds to safely run a bus down the road, keeping the maintenance current, and making sure you're not endangering those around you, then maybe bus converting is not for you, and you should down size to a gas powered rig.
Brian's opinion should not be ridiculed. We all have our opinions-that's what this board consists of is opinions. Let's keep it friendly without personal jabbing. And we'll all benefit from our massive library of human experiences. Good Luck, TomC
I may not agree of how it was handled but I had to post a personal story that my wife shared with me.
I had posted it on another thread but will post her also.
One of her best Friends had to plan a funeral for his father. He was 14years old when his father was killed when a transit bus crushed him. He was a mechanic working under the bus.
I am not the best when it comes to bus safety. I would not like to have my kids live without me because i was not safe.
Some safety concerns should be addressed. Just maybe a different way.
Lonnie
For my part I wholly agree with his point in theory but also the approach was overly strong and doggedly pursued seemingly with the intent on making positive that all would bend to it before he was done. When that didn't happen he takes his ball and goes home. Well, fine go, I'm very sorry to see anyone leave but if this forum turns to a place where people are ridiculed for sharing a story or an idea even a wrong one then I'll leave. Everyone has a right to a position and a opinion but at some point you just have to let the dog rest. You just cannot force your will on other adults here and then storm off when others disagree with your being in their face.
To me it was all in approach, I usually read nearly all of the posts here and stay neutral 99% of the time even in some doozies but I get sick and tired of people telling me how I will do things according to them even if they make sense. I've been told that if I don't buy brand new tires and even brand X tires then I have no right to own a coach, I've been told that if I don't have a CDL then I have no business behind the wheel, I've been told that if I don't have a large bank roll for any unexpected problems then I have no business owning a bus. All of these by people in this forum! Everyone has to start somewhere sometime and I thought this was a place to come to learn and gain support, not be battered. I've been told many things by many people over the years. You may give me suggestions and apply logic to back it up but like others, I don't respond well to nagging ,force, micromanaging or berating. I've come a long ways since I first began lurking years ago and then joined but I would have quit or never joined if this was the atmosphere.
I still say that I sincerely hope that all involved will chill out and take a breath, it's just not that important really. You reach those you can with your message (I sound like a religious nut now) and the rest will do as they please. Telling people that they are unwelcome to drive on the same road as you or stay in the same campground as you if they don't toe your line is just idiocy and immature. Chill out, drink a beverage , take a day or three and come back when you're calm and can play better with others. Seriously!
no harm, no foul, just a lesson on how to speak to others even when you are right in principle.
P.S
Obviously I'm speaking interchangeably of multiple parties.
Quote from: Paladin on August 29, 2010, 10:02:17 AM
For my part I wholly agree with his point in theory but also the approach was overly strong and doggedly pursued seemingly with the intent on making positive that all would bend to it before he was done. When that didn't happen he takes his ball and goes home. Well, fine go, I'm very sorry to see anyone leave but if this forum turns to a place where people are ridiculed for sharing a story or an idea even a wrong one then I'll leave. Everyone has a right to a position and a opinion but at some point you just have to let the dog rest. You just cannot force your will on other adults here and then storm off when others disagree with your being in their face.
To me it was all in approach, I usually read nearly all of the posts here and stay neutral 99% of the time even in some doozies but I get sick and tired of people telling me how I will do things according to them even if they make sense. I've been told that if I don't buy brand new tires and even brand X tires then I have no right to own a coach, I've been told that if I don't have a CDL then I have no business behind the wheel, I've been told that if I don't have a large bank roll for any unexpected problems then I have no business owning a bus. All of these by people in this forum! Everyone has to start somewhere sometime and I thought this was a place to come to learn and gain support, not be battered. I've been told many things by many people over the years. You may give me suggestions and apply logic to back it up but like others, I don't respond well to nagging ,force, micromanaging or berating. I've come a long ways since I first began lurking years ago and then joined but I would have quit or never joined if this was the atmosphere.
I still say that I sincerely hope that all involved will chill out and take a breath, it's just not that important really. You reach those you can with your message (I sound like a religious nut now) and the rest will do as they please. Telling people that they are unwelcome to drive on the same road as you or stay in the same campground as you if they don't toe your line is just idiocy and immature. Chill out, drink a beverage , take a day or three and come back when you're calm and can play better with others. Seriously!
no harm, no foul, just a lesson on how to speak to others even when you are right in principle.
P.S
Obviously I'm speaking interchangeably of multiple parties.
paladin I completely agree with your statement. There are better ways to teach safety without all the anger.
Lets just hope that lessons were learned by ALL and a return to the forum for those that left. Basically we are for the most part old guys with old busses. Pretty set in our ways!!! :D
My 'ole grandpappy always told me to only worry about things I could do something about.
He was a very smart old guy!!
QuoteI'm convinced now. We all need to get rid of these junkers and buy a brand new Prevost conversion. Besides, we can fix the economy overnight.
Whats going on Len? You are knocking down some good comic relief today.
Some here need to be more like Len. He often finds himself in the minority but you don't ever see him tucking tail and running. No! He comes back for more punishment and never complains about it! I don't care what side your on. If you throw down your gun and run you don't have Honor. Chill out everyone, and remember that we are few and have to stay together to keep this hobby doable for the poor bus owners like me. And I almost forgot, where would BK go if we all quit? The least we can do is hold it together for BK! Now back to the front lines soldiers!
Quote from: gus on August 29, 2010, 02:54:52 PM
My 'ole grandpappy always told me to only worry about things I could do something about.
He was a very smart old guy!!
Gus,
Very sage advice, indeed.
And something I try to live by...
One thing I have learned from mentoring the younger Guys in my in my field of work, is to find a way to make your point that is interesting to them, not necessarily me.
Its a lot easier to get your messsage across when there ears perk up and not the hairs on the back of there necks....
Cliff
Quote from: Barn Owl on August 29, 2010, 09:05:38 PM
QuoteI'm convinced now. We all need to get rid of these junkers and buy a brand new Prevost conversion. Besides, we can fix the economy overnight.
Whats going on Len? You are knocking down some good comic relief today.
Some here need to be more like Len. He often finds himself in the minority but you don't ever see him tucking tail and running. No! He comes back for more punishment and never complains about it! I don't care what side your on. If you throw down your gun and run you don't have Honor. Chill out everyone, and remember that we are few and have to stay together to keep this hobby doable for the poor bus owners like me. And I almost forgot, where would BK go if we all quit? The least we can do is hold it together for BK! Now back to the front lines soldiers!
Thank you for that. If I didn't feel that my minority position was respected by most folks here, I wouldn't stick around either.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
( frank pays me $4.37 a month to pick on BK and Nick, he used to pay me almost 6 dollars but Obama reduced his advisory fee and now he only pays me $4.37, I'm hoping for a raise but I understand that it's difficult for frank being a secret squirrel advisor to obama while owning a bus.)( I think frank is muslim, I've seen him on his knees bowing towards mecca, I'm sure it was mecca but it might have been bobbing for spare ribs in a vat of BBQ sauce too, I can't be possitive, don't tell anyone) shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
My Mom would put a stop to bickering about others with this statement! There is so much good in the worst of us and so much bad in the best of us it behooves none of us to speak ill of the rest of us! Quite often just before go and get Me a switch! Regards John L
Switch sounds softer than my ma's wooden spoon....you were a lucky what with the warning quote and all, 'round my house the spoon was stirring the pot one second and the next..BAM!
Cody I am upset, Frank has never paid me for telling on you and bk.
uncle ned
still don't know what happened to the spare parts off his bus or the for sale sign.
I got a metal spatula...or a yard stick, whatever she was working with at the time. You learned to stay at least 3' from mom when you were being bad and run really fast. That way she would quit and dad would come and it was much less severe.
I'm a fast runner and I don't like people close to me!
QuoteHero Member
Offline
Posts: 518
Re: Another member says good bye
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2010, 01:02:17 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For my part I wholly agree with his point in theory but also the approach was overly strong and doggedly pursued seemingly with the intent on making positive that all would bend to it before he was done. When that didn't happen he takes his ball and goes home. Well, fine go, I'm very sorry to see anyone leave but if this forum turns to a place where people are ridiculed for sharing a story or an idea even a wrong one then I'll leave. Everyone has a right to a position and a opinion but at some point you just have to let the dog rest. You just cannot force your will on other adults here and then storm off when others disagree with your being in their face.
To me it was all in approach, I usually read nearly all of the posts here and stay neutral 99% of the time even in some doozies but I get sick and tired of people telling me how I will do things according to them even if they make sense. I've been told that if I don't buy brand new tires and even brand X tires then I have no right to own a coach, I've been told that if I don't have a CDL then I have no business behind the wheel, I've been told that if I don't have a large bank roll for any unexpected problems then I have no business owning a bus. All of these by people in this forum! Everyone has to start somewhere sometime and I thought this was a place to come to learn and gain support, not be battered. I've been told many things by many people over the years. You may give me suggestions and apply logic to back it up but like others, I don't respond well to nagging ,force, micromanaging or berating. I've come a long ways since I first began lurking years ago and then joined but I would have quit or never joined if this was the atmosphere.
I still say that I sincerely hope that all involved will chill out and take a breath, it's just not that important really. You reach those you can with your message (I sound like a religious nut now) and the rest will do as they please. Telling people that they are unwelcome to drive on the same road as you or stay in the same campground as you if they don't toe your line is just idiocy and immature. Chill out, drink a beverage , take a day or three and come back when you're calm and can play better with others. Seriously!
no harm, no foul, just a lesson on how to speak to others even when you are right in principle.
P.S
Obviously I'm speaking interchangeably of multiple parties.
I completely agree. Thank you for your eloquence.
My feeling is also that he came off too heavy handed and insulting which sets people off. Including me. When I get pushed, right or wrongly, I push back. It's human nature. And, you can see how much BG6 likes to be pushed by his posts. He should understand that more than most.
Safety is paramount. Period. But you get more Flys with honey than vinegar. Sweeten it up and we will be "all good". It all just comes down to being/keeping your cool. If you want to get into somebodies face, expect a fight. It's human nature. This isn't the Military. (been there, done that)
Chaz
The poor lad simply asked a question, maybe his solution wasn't hat everyone would have chosen , however he did get on here and ask for help. If I felt this board is here to let people like me be told, rather than helped I helped I wouldn't want to be here. So therefore whatever, people want to leave beacause their mad, so be it. I'm glad moose is still around, sure he feels like we're all idiots with big heads. I'm sure there are very few of us that have compromised safty in some form.
Quote from: cody on August 29, 2010, 07:28:48 AM
If I become inSALTed, does that make me a seasoned veteran? ( I can't believe I sunk that low, I'm incredibaly bored this morning I guess, sorry peoples)
It's not properly seasoned without pepper and garlic!
Oh, and I'm also going to get my HF air compressor installed in the bay and connected into the air system, so I can avoid the high shipping charges on that spare!
This was way too funny.
Did this belong in the last thread about air compressors or does this whole thread belong in the air compressor thread. I'm confussed I guess. Three pages here and six there and a few posts in the last person quitting thread. Hard to keep up with all the different threads about the same things.
Have to agree on many posts here about the way things are posted. I would guess most that take on a bus and or a conversion are the type of people that don't like to be told what to do. Other wise we would have bought an over price S&S that was built by a manufacture for the purpose of being a Motorhome. Instead we all become mechanic, carpenter, plumber,electrician, engineer, and need to try to follow all the rules that don't always make sense. I am glade to have knowledgeable people helping me learn to function in all of the above career fields. I don't need anyone making me feel stupid for my innocent posts. Hope all that leave come back to play ball it is more fun that way.
John
This will always work it's self out in time. Why I remember it was just 15 months ago Brian posted this (his 4th post)
1412 Bus Discussion / All Topics ( click here for quick start! ) / Re: MC-5C empty weight on: May 27, 2009, 05:34:42 AM
Thanks to everybody, and thanks for the welcome. I will confess that this is about the scariest thing I've done so far, and that includes building and driving racing cars! The learning curve is steep, but I am taking a whole lot of comfort from knowing that all of you have managed to make it work - if you can, I can!
I too, have asked a whole lot of ?'s, and have learned quite a lot in the short time We have been doing this. It is a shame to see that now you would question the very Seasoned Veterans in whom you had once trusted with confidence for the knowledge that you seeked out.
Now I have heard just about every BDAR story( For those non-military, it stands for Battle damage,Assessment & Repair...Get it fixed safely, any way any how, and get it and your team outta harms way) Even the one about a bus nut who rode in the spare tire compartment of a buddy's bus to operate a busted throttle cable so's to get said bus home :o ;D ;D. I thought to my self, now that takes balls, backed up by alot of experience, and definitely not a novice but that seasoned veteran of which I spoke. Time to reflect, take a breath, give it time, and quite givin the old guy's a hard time ;), it gives them gas, and then we all suffer ;D ;D All the best, from out West ;) Van.
I want you all to know that I do, in fact, know everything, I know it all, I just can't remember any of it. ;D ;D ;D ???
Are you sure! ;D ;D
I just wish that if we are going to fight, we do it about important crap like religion and politics. Arguing about compressors is silly.
Quote from: Len Silva on August 30, 2010, 02:55:57 PM
I just wish that if we are going to fight, we do it about important crap like religion and politics. Arguing about compressors is silly.
Len,
This is the compressor arguing board..... :-X
Religon and politics are for the OT board.... :P