Hello
i have a 1970 mci 7
i want to install an electric aircompressor in compartment beside engine
does anyone have suggestions how to do this or even a diagram and a list of parts needed
Thank you
trevor
Just put in in line before the air dryer(if you have one) and on mine it attaches with a female air connection
I have a quarter turn shut off valve between the connection point and the coach air system.
I like to use the connection to attach a 50' hose if I need to air up my tires.
Cliff
Trevor,
We installed our portable air compessor where the OEM AC compressor was. I removed the air line from the the top of the ping tank, installed a tee and re-connect the air line. I then installed a check valve in the over Tee opening and a line to the portable air compressor along with a quick connet fitting to fill the system from shop air as well as for a connection point for an air line supplied from the bus air. This line is connected to the portable air compressor with quick connect fittings. The check valve and quick connect fittings allow the portable compressor to be removed without affecting the bus operation. Air from the portable compressor, as well as air from my shop air system goes through the air dryer on the bus before entering the rest of the bus air system.
I did this a few months ago. I got a Harbor Fright 95498 compressor for only $72 (they're on sale again for $90, and you can also use the 20%-off coupon!), connected it to my accessories tank, and put air couplers on both sides of the luggage bay and in the engine room. Now I can run air tools and inflate tires without running the engine. I can also connect the compressor to the wet tank (Crown thoughtfully put an air coupler and ball valve on it) and air up the entire bus in less than five minutes. I'm using standard industrial-type fittings, but Crown also put an automotive coupler on the end of the wet tank's drain, so I can also easily connect to shop air with either type of coupler. For the few times I run the electric compressor I can manually drain its tank, so I didn't connect it through the bus's AD-9 dryer. To finish the job, I got a pressure gauge from Grainger (for only $1.59!!), to let me know how much pressure is in the accessories tank.
This setup works well for me, didn't cost much, and has allowed me to easily grease every nipple underneath with my air grease gun. Now that's a good feeling! The 95498 compressor is not bad - 4 gallon twin-tank, direct-drive, oil-type, usefully compact, and for the occasional use it will get it's just fine.
John
My Ping tank looks different from the one pictured, it has a drain on the bottom (with "drain daily" sticker), and had a Schrader valve so you could air up the bus through it. I took the Schrader valve off and installed a female quick connect with a ball valve. The ball valve is kind of extra insurance since I've known the quick connects to fail open or start leaking. I use a male - male connector to attach the compressor line. My compressor lives in my wet bay, isn't permanently connected, since it is way too loud and I am still looking for a small, inexpensive and quiet compressor that has enough airflow to air up the bus from zero in 10 minutes or less. I also have a similar ball valve and female quick connect on the drain for the accessory tank. If I need to put air in, i put it in at the ping tank. If I need to take air out, I take it out of the accessory tank.
One tip - set your compressor maximum pressure to less that your governor cut-out pressure. If you exceed the cut out pressure, the governor will cut out, the air dryer will purge and since your compressor isn't in that loop it just sits there and puts air through the system and gets purged to atmosphere until you notice and turn it off. I know this how, you ask...?? ???
Brian
I have a lot of air cyl and controls to maintain.so use back up electric compressor..have changed them out several times due to failure..seem to run about 4 to 5 minutes every 24 hrs to maintain 65 plus lbs air pressure where the secondary air system is regulated to release to the brake system..I set kick on at 90 and it kicks off at 110..keeps bus air bags up and door controllers working as they should. plugged in 24 hrs a day 7 days a week 365 days a year like Jack and others pointed out a good ck valve or shut off system will stop any possibility of your bus air being lost thru a failed elect compressor..good luck...Bob
Aren't most of these air compressors too loud to use in a camp ground. I know my 28 gallon compressor in the carport will wake the dead. I don't think I could use that to keep a bus aired up. It has the capacity but just too loud.
Just a word of caution here... The PO had installed a hose clamped connection on one of the air lines in the engine compartment on my bus, only he failed to tell me about it when I bought it and it was kinda hidden in a spot I did not notice. After about 2500 miles I was at the top of a 7% grade that had steep drop offs and just moments before the last turn out before going down the grade my air pressure suddenly dropped to dangerously low! I pulled over and could here the air hissing. I followed the sound with a stethescope to find it and plug it so I could continue my trip. Please be careful and check your fittings from time to time, losing air on a grade like that is NOT something anyone would want to experience.
Technically- because of the reed valves in compressors, you can just simply T into the outlet side of the bus compressor before the air dryer and be done with it. Good Luck, TomC
Good Idea to have a spare compressor onboard. Last year on our trip south for the winter a connecting rod on the engine mounted compressor broke completely destroying said compressor, no replacement could be found anywhere for less than 6 weeks out. I had installed a cheapo Harbor Freight compressor in an up front compartment to keep aired up over night , well believe it or not that cheap $99 compressor got us 1200 mi to our southern destination without fail, and it did take 6 weeks to find a replacement for the main pump F.W.I.W.
Quote from: rwc on August 25, 2010, 03:18:35 PM
Aren't most of these air compressors too loud to use in a camp ground. I know my 28 gallon compressor in the carport will wake the dead. I don't think I could use that to keep a bus aired up. It has the capacity but just too loud.
You can blimp the sound with insulation -- just don't restrict cooling airflow.
However, I agree, the HF units ARE loud. In my case, I hunted craigslist until I found a higher-quality compressor at a cheap price. It's significantly quieter, far less noise than the coach engine, so I can air up while I'm doing my walkaround, disconnecting umbilicals, etc, then hop in, light off, and as soon as the turbo has warmed up I can hit the road.
Quote from: Merlin-PV on August 26, 2010, 09:54:48 AM
Last year on our trip south for the winter a connecting rod on the engine mounted compressor broke completely destroying said compressor, no replacement could be found anywhere for less than 6 weeks out. I had installed a cheapo Harbor Freight compressor in an up front compartment to keep aired up over night , well believe it or not that cheap $99 compressor got us 1200 mi to our southern destination
I consider this right up near the top of the Really, REALLY, REALLY(!!!) Stupid Ideas List. This is something to try only if there is absolutely no other option.
You HAD other options.
If necessary, you could have parked the coach and come back when the part arrived -- though I can't imagine any part in a coach which would take SIX WEEKS to get. One call to Ted or Luke will get you pretty much anything by Next Day Air or three days by truck freight, and compressors are available new and used in any truck dealer or wrecking yard in the country.
Your air system is the only thing letting you stop FIFTEEN TONS of DEADLY WEAPON. You ran halfway across the country with a kludged air system, simply for your convenience.
Yes, I am seriously pissed at you. A friend of mine is in the list of victims in this story from last week: -- http://www.baguiochronicle.com/2010/08/42-killed-9-injured-in-benguet-bus.html (http://www.baguiochronicle.com/2010/08/42-killed-9-injured-in-benguet-bus.html) -- and read why FORTY-TWO PEOPLE ARE DEAD: "While traversing Naguilian Road, the bus driven by a certain Romeo Subang Jr. apparently lost its brakes and plummeted into a ravine 35 to 50 meters deep."
Before you attribute it to "third world" maintenance or safety standards, tell me how what you did is any better?
You risked the lives of every other person on 1200 miles of highway, just to fly south for the winter.
You risked the reputation of every busnut in the country, too. Nobody seeing "Converted bus goes wild" on the TV news will think about your kludged-up air system -- they will just think about the van full of schoolkids that you killed, and condemn the rest of us.
We have enough trouble being accepted by non-busnuts, without going out of our way to juggle live grenades.
You may be a great guy, you may turn into a buddy, but right now, all I see is you bragging about something you should have never done. Using a compressor to air up enough to get to the next town, okay, that is legitimate, acceptable risk. Going the rest of the way across the country, no, that's not.
this is right up there in the "confessing to a serious crime on a public internet forum" category, because that's what you just did. It is totally and completely illegal to operate a vehicle with air brakes on any public road for any reason if the engine driven air compressor is not working properly.
I can't believe you did that, and I can't believe you told us you did that. And I will disagree with BG6, totally and completely, as far the law is concerned, and common sense, and any sense of obligation to your fellow citizens - there is only one way that a bus with no operating air compressor should be moved on a public road for any reason, and that is behind a tow truck. Period. There is no "legitimate, acceptable risk" about it, it is just wrong.
brian
I have seen these used in RVs. They are quiet but expensive. Look for one on Craigslist, Ebay, or an RV salvage site. I let one get away from me last year but at this time but I don't need one because my bus will hold air longer than my vacation. If I where to park and FT then I would be much more interested.
Gast Compressor (http://www.gastmfg.com/piston.html)
before you guys get your nose out of joint air pressure never got below 100 lbs 6 tank system air bags turned off air was for 100% braking witch if you pay attention to what you are doing you are ok, Luke was one of the many that said 6 weeks. can't spend 6 weeks in a rest area.
Quote from: Merlin-PV on August 27, 2010, 08:25:26 AM
before you guys get your nose out of joint air pressure never got below 100 lbs 6 tank system air bags turned off air was for 100% braking witch if you pay attention to what you are doing you are ok, Luke was one of the many that said 6 weeks. can't spend 6 weeks in a rest area.
Your being lucky doesn't make everything all better now.
I'll bet that Luke didn't tell you to run 1200 miles using a Harbor Freight compressor.
OK 1st off personally as long as Merlin had air pressure and kept a vigilant eye on the gauges, I see nothing wrong with using the auxiliary compressor to get off the road.
Not that I would recommend it to anyone, or even suggest it for liability reasons.
But we had a driver call me several yrs ago who told me "I just came off I-24 and the air pressure is not rebuilding like it normally does!"
I asked him how much pressure he had and he said "right @ 100 psi" I told him to find a safe place to park and I was on the way. I took another bus to him, and I had our clean up guy follow me in the truck with a generator and portable shop air compressor in the back.
Once I got to Paducah, KY (an hour away) I let the driver load his passengers on the bus I'd brought and go. Then Chuckie and I went to work determining the problem. Turned out that the crank in the compressor had broke and would not build air.
So I put the generator in one bay and the compressor in another and hooked into the air system at the ping tank drain.
Once the bus aired up, and I pumped the brakes until the air came down enough to set the alarm off and set the brakes. After I was satisfied that the air compressor would keep the air up, I drove it home about an hr away.
And yes it took a little time to get the replacement compressor from MN. not 6 weeks, but not the next day either. (thanks Craig! ;))
Now I would not have driven it 1200 miles, or with passengers. But I did take my time and made it home without paying $800 for a wrecker or leaving it sit and having to replace the compressor in a Hardee's parking lot.
YMMV
;D BK ;D
I'll say this and then shut up. if the bus air compressor - the engine driven air compressor, not some 2 cfm hot-dog harbour freight compressor running off of a generator and hooked up with some jury rigged air line - if that engine driven compressor is out of service, the bus is out of service. It's illegal to drive it on public roads. BK, as a commercial operator I just flat out cannot believe that you would risk your drivers license and your business by running a illegal bus, passengers or not. I cannot imagine the magnitude of the fines if you had been caught, or the lawsuits if the jury rig had failed.
If by the silence on this issue the consensus of this forum is that running your bus on public roads on a jury rigged generator driven air compressor is just fine, then I have a big problem with that. As far as I am concerned, if the bus can't pass the minimum performance DOT mandatory air brake tests, then it is out of service. Out of service means it gets towed and fixed, end of story.
Brian,
1st off I didn't use a Harbor freight elcheapo 2 cfm compressor and I did not jury rig an airline!
I used a compressor that will run a 1" impact gun all day it came off a service truck. But I don't have the service truck trailer I am building set up with the compressor and welder/generator set up yet.
I used to drive class 8 tow trucks. Guess how we aired up buses and trucks to tow them?
We ran an airline into a tank or drain line with the same fitting & hose set up I used on my portable shop compressor!
If it's legal to to it that way, I see no issue with getting it off the road that way!
Just to make you happy I'll tell my local TN DOT officer how I did it, and ask what his stance on it is on it next time he stops in! (should be sometime in September)
I am not saying it's the way to run an air system up and down the road, but some of us don't want to leave our buses sitting 50 miles from home like you would.
;D BK ;D
If you ran tow trucks then you know that a bus or anything else on the back of a wrecker, hence under the control of the wrecker, is completely different from the same bus driving under it's own control. Using extension lines to air up a bus so you can tow it is not at all the same as running a generator and a compressor to drive a bus.
But that's OK, it's obvious no one else agrees with me.
The quietest air compressor I've found is a Makita single tank oil lubed. They are very high quality.
AIR IS AIR. Not sure I would drive 1200 miles but would get air any way I could to get my bus SAFE off the road for me and the operating public as well. Give the Guy a break he did what he did so be it. Some vehicles are operating in worse condition I'm sure.
My Rant
John
Ah, a hot topic. Nice.
So, first I'd like to share that if it were me, my first choice would be to make all attempts at the proper repair before attempting an alternative repair. Since I don't fulltime, it is acceptable for me to have the bus towed to a facility where it can sit while parts arrive - but what if those parts were never again available? Do I scrap the bus in place?
With that said, I can understand (to an extent) operating on a standalone compressor.
My choice for an alternate repair would be to use the coach AC compressor drive belt to spin a high capacity air compressor head - but that is because I realize that a high volume electric air compressor would require a large electric draw.
By posting this I realize that I am opening myself up to criticism, which I am prepared to accept with no hurt feelings. So, don't hold back, as I am interested in hearing some opinions from both viewpoints along with some supporting logic and/or legal basis. I am of course referencing a hypothetical situation so edit those details as necessary to fit your arguement as opposed to the flaws of the hypothetical situation.
For example: Only drive with the OE compressor because...[no readily available compressor can possibly perform as well as the engine compressor?],[the law says so and even if it works it's still not ok].....
or It's ok to drive with a non OE compressor so long as it meets....[technical details here].
There seems to me that there is more knowledge that belongs to those here with a strong opinion than this newbie following logic is considering, and surely others finding this thread may find useful.
Thanks for humoring me.
There are times that you need to take a chill pill Brian. Many of us are not blessed with your wealth and ability to pay for every over the top anal detail that you profess to. Give us a break! It does get old having someone think he's "Big Brother" watching over all of us. Many of us have something called "common sense". We do know how to limp back home and use our minds as to if it is safe or not. My advise to you would be to use some common sense yourself and stfu! You were not there. Off my soap box now.
! BANG ! Again I think some of us need to drink a lot less coffee. Why are we so quick to ridicule each other? especially when the waters done gone over the dam already. I think that all of us at one point or another may have done things that we aren't proud of. But for one reason or another felt we needed to do it just the same. done is done, lesson learned, life goes on. This is a place to tell stories good or bad so we can gain from the experiences.Yes it was serious Yes he lived to tell . Just don't think we need these vibes here......slammin people just aint right....... thats the way you scare people off this forum .......come back again merlin-pv.......................s....................
not that i am saying i am for or against the idea being discussed here, but i have to ask...the spring brakes require air pressure in order to apply pressure to release the brake shoes and allow the bus to move. correct? so, when pressing on the brake pedal air is released from the system allowing the shoes to contact the drum and stop the vehicle. so, air is necessary to allow the vehicle to move...loose too much air and the vehicle will come to a stop. do i have this right so far? someone please set me straight if i am misunderstanding how the brakes operate. so then, if the temporary air supply fails wouldn't the bus soon come to a stop once the air pressure falls too low? I fail to see how using a TEMPORARY air supply could be any more dangerous then using the engine ran air supply. after all, the original problem was from a failure of the oem compressor. if the temporary air system failed i would just be back to square one...stopped on the side of the highway. low or no air pressure does not equal run away bus. if i have a tire blow out on the interstate would i be expected to have the bus towed to a tire shop to have a new tire installed? would it be considered 'irresponsible' to put the spare on and drive to the tire shop if the spare was not the exact same tire as the one that blew? before anyone jumps on the band wagon over that last comment...literally thousands of cars are produced with spare tires that are not the same as the regular drive tires. thought i would throw that in there.
ok, so i guess maybe i am saying i don't see the big problem with what he did. can't say that i would have went 1200 miles that way, but i don't see where the danger was in what he did. how is what he did any more dangerous than running with the oem compressor?
i would also be interested to see the dot regulation that states it is illegal to drive with a temporary air supply. not saying it don't believe there is one because i am sure there is...i am just curious as to how it is written.
When I lost my air pressure suddenly (as mentioned earlier in this thread) I was at the top of a 7% grade that had a sign to "check brakes" with a turn out imediately up a little ways on the crest of the hill following the sign. When I applied my brakes I imediately lost nearly all of my air pressure and then I coasted into the turn out. My spring brakes did work as I used them when the bus came to a rest, but my regular brakes had lost nearly all stopping power.
I want to thank Merlin for telling the story about the compressor actually working in a situation where the main compressor went out. I will remember the story and in the future it may save my kids and I from being stranded in the middle of nowhere with no cell phone service or any other choice! Thank you, it is another "out of the box" thinking thing!
I have a brake application pressure gauge on our MC-8. A normal stop requires about 10-15 PSI, a hard stop rarely exceeds 30-35 PSI. A panic stop hits about 50-60. Total volume of brake cans and lines probably does not exceed 2 cu.ft. So even a small compressor should be able to keep up as long as you stay aware, watch your gauges and are not in the mountains. I would not recommend this for normal use, but to get to a repair facilty. Jack
Moderators note: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether you agree or not. Let's not let this thread deteriorate into flaming.
I dunno, had I been in a similar situation I suspect I'd probably look for pretty much the same solution to get me home or at least to a safe place. Not sure about the 1200 miles but that's a personal decision based on several factors, I wasn't there. I personally don't trust most H.F tools though.
As far as I'm concerned, air really is air and the bus couldn't care less where it comes from as long as it gets what it needs when it needs it. As long as I trusted my power source, my air source and the interconnecting lines then I'd do what I needed to in order to carefully limp off to a safer and better place. Especially if family were on board. Who knows, if it tested out to be be holding well then maybe I too would push it a bit. Just because the air doesn't come from a giant compressor with my bus' brand name on it doesn't mean that it's any less reliable or less than up to the task. Does your car only run if it has fuel from Sinclair and no other?
I think the key here is caution, listening carefully and watching the gauges closely. Any deviation and I'd be out of there and off the road!
I once had a throttle cable snap on a Fiat Spyder I owned after I put a Weber dual carb setup on. So I'm broken down on the side of I-80 and no way to apply fuel to the car and get home and it's about 101 degrees outside. I managed to put a pair of mini vice grips on the end that snapped and drove home. After replacing the cable which snapped again, several times (I never could find a valid reason for the stop on that end to snap though I suspected the added tension of the second carb linkage was the culprit), I left the vise grips on and they worked for years and years, with never a slip or disconnect, nada, ever! They were there when I sold the car to a guy I knew and he used it as-is for as long as I knew he had the car, yes I pointed out the vise grips and even gave him a new cable with the guarantee that it too would snap soon. We used to chuckle about those vice grips being on the car for so long.
Unconventional? Yes, highly, but functionality was as good or better than original with far superior reliability, they never bound the linkage, came off the cable or slipped! Just because the part is not original equipment doesn't mean that it can't do the job.
The car didn't know or care how the cable was pulling on the carb linkages and the cable didn't know what was at the end of it holding it to the carbs, it worked.
I must agree with others that with knowledge, prudence, patience you can safely travel with a supplemental air compressor & a failed engine air comp. I am sure that one will guard that air pressure gauge like never before, or since.
I still chuckle at the FAA ferry permits which we can secure to move a semi damaged airplane to a repair facility. One was a while back, a Mooney on climb out of Atlantic City took on a flock of geese & subsequent geese pooh thru the windshield. The pilot, dazed & stunned, thankfully made it back to Bader Field. Next day a pilot from Trenton flys in with a beat up windshield, grey tapes it over the broken one, and blasts off to Trenton in the damaged Mooney.
Not recommended, but he knew his limits.
I surely would not have done the same, but.
this taken from DOT standard 121, air brake systems for trucks and buses....
S5.1.1 Air compressor. An air compressor of sufficient capacity to increase air pressure in the supply and service reservoirs from 85 psi to 100 psi when the engine is operating at the vehicle manufacturer's maximum recommended r.p.m. within a time, in seconds, determined by the quotient (Actual reservoir capacity×25)/Required reservoir capacity.
i see no mention of it HAVING to be the onboard oem compressor. as long as the 'temporary' compressor can supply 'x' cfm in 'y' amount of time i don't see where any laws were broken.
Quote from: thomasinnv on August 28, 2010, 06:58:35 AM
i see no mention of it HAVING to be the onboard oem compressor. as long as the 'temporary' compressor can supply 'x' cfm in 'y' amount of time i don't see where any laws were broken.
That list assumes DOT-approved standard equipment. Non-approved equipment doesn't satisfy the requirement.
Look at the lenses on your ack lights. See where they say "DOT" on them? A non-DOT lens, even if it meets all standards for color and size, does not satisfy the legal requirements. In 1967, they grandfathered most prior equipment and configurations, but not air and braking systems -- since January 1968, non-approved equipment "doesn't exist" under the law.
It doesn't matter if your 1967-vintage coach had a compressor operated by a hamster running in a wire wheel, since 1968 you have to run a compressor which is DOT-approved if you are going to run on the public roads.
Even though we don't have to get DOT inspections on a private coach, it is against the law even for us to operate a coach which can't pass that inspection. If his kludge had been discovered, the coach would have been towed to an impound yard and the trooper would have issued a citation for reckless operation of an unsafe motor vehicle in excess of 26,001 lbs.
We're not talking about a cracked windshield or a loose fender. We are talking about the single most important device in the coach.
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on August 27, 2010, 09:39:22 AM
OK 1st off personally as long as Merlin had air pressure and kept a vigilant eye on the gauges, I see nothing wrong with using the auxiliary compressor to get off the road.
"Get off the road" implies "at first safe opportunity" -- that is, running from a rest area to the nearest shop or safe long-term parking. I would agree with that. If he had said he hooked up his Chicom compressor to get from the rest area to the shop ten miles down the road, I would have congratulated him for his initiative.
Unfortunately, that was not the situation.
Quote
And yes it took a little time to get the replacement compressor from MN. not 6 weeks, but not the next day either. (thanks Craig! ;))
You were buying a new one, right?
Yesterday I checked six truck places for a compressor for my coach. Two had no clue what a 6V92T is, but one of THOSE had the compressor on the shelf new, two rebuilt, and the other could get it overnight if I ordered by 2PM. Three of the four that knew my engine had the compressor, and the other gave me the name of two wrecking yards that were likely to have one and suggested that Freightliner in Salt Lake City would probably have a shelf full of them (he was wrong, they only have five).
If I upchucked the compressor shaft this morning (Saturday), I would be on the road again by Tuesday afternoon.
That's not calling Ted or Luke -- in each case I was calling the nearest places I could find online, in rural northern Nevada.
Quote from: Jriddle on August 27, 2010, 04:58:33 PMSome vehicles are operating in worse condition I'm sure.
And you're OKAY with that . . ?
Try this one -- your wife and kids are in the Toyota on the highway just ahead of Merlin's coach and the Harbor Freight compressor that he's been using for 1100 miles. This idea works for you?
Quote from: neverlearn on August 27, 2010, 05:29:16 PM
Ah, a hot topic. Nice.
So, first I'd like to share that if it were me, my first choice would be to make all attempts at the proper repair before attempting an alternative repair. Since I don't fulltime, it is acceptable for me to have the bus towed to a facility where it can sit while parts arrive - but what if those parts were never again available? Do I scrap the bus in place?
There are very few coach parts which are "never again available" -- some parts are EXPENSIVE, but just about everything is available to fix a coach which you would put on the road again. However, if it won't pass a DOT inspection, you don't put it on the road, except to take it directly to the point of repair.
In this case, we are talking about a readily-available part on a coach with a driver who wanted to get to his vacation home.
So - how long is this crap going to go on?
there I said it >:(
Quote from: thomasinnv on August 27, 2010, 08:29:20 PMso, air is necessary to allow the vehicle to move...loose too much air and the vehicle will come to a stop. do i have this right so far?
NO, and someone may DIE because you don't understand this, so pay attention.
Lose air and you get an uncommanded and uncontrollable application of the DRIVE AXLE brakes. If you are going slow and on the flat, they will lock the drive wheels. If you are on a downgrade or at highway speed, they will slow you until they overheat, at which point you have NO brakes on ANY axle.
You have NO braking on the front axle (or tag, if so equipped), meaning that you have -- at best -- ONLY 30% OF YOUR BRAKES, and that assumes a speed below 40 MPH, even weight distribution on all axles, good traction on level ground.
Why do you think they have runwaway truck ramps on downgrades?
Quote
if i have a tire blow out on the interstate would i be expected to have the bus towed to a tire shop to have a new tire installed?
No, you would be expected to call for a road service truck, or drive slowly to the nearest tire shop and hope a trooper doesn't decide to cite you for operating a vehicle in an unsafe condition (usually they won't, if you aren't causing a problem or hazard for other drivers).
Quote
would it be considered 'irresponsible' to put the spare on and drive to the tire shop if the spare was not the exact same tire as the one that blew? before anyone jumps on the band wagon over that last comment...literally thousands of cars are produced with spare tires that are not the same as the regular drive tires. thought i would throw that in there.
Let me throw in here that those "donut" spares are specifically designed for a single use and are marked "Max speed 50MPH" . . .however, you are talking about emergency operation to a point of repair, which makes it a judgment call by the trooper or the court.
Quoteok, so i guess maybe i am saying i don't see the big problem with what he did. can't say that i would have went 1200 miles that way, but i don't see where the danger was in what he did. how is what he did any more dangerous than running with the oem compressor?
The OEM compressor was designed to put out 15 cfm at 150 PSI with a 100% duty cycle (DOT minimum standard). The Harbor Freight compressor is SUPPOSED to put out 4 cfm at 90 psi with a 30% duty cycle -- and they have a 10% infant mortality rate (where they die within the initial warranty period), so maybe they thing doesn't even meet that low standard.
900 cubic feet per hour at 150 psi (certified) or 76 cubic feet per hour at 90 psi (maybe). NOW do you see a problem . . ?
Quotei would also be interested to see the dot regulation that states it is illegal to drive with a temporary air supply. not saying it don't believe there is one because i am sure there is...i am just curious as to how it is written.
Is THIS your card . . ? From 49 Code of Federal Regulations 571.121:
S5.1.1 Air compressor. An air compressor of sufficient capacity to increase air pressure in the supply and service reservoirs from 85 psi to 100 psi when the engine is operating at the vehicle manufacturer's maximum recommended r.p.m. within a time, in seconds, determined by the quotient (Actual reservoir capacity×25)/Required reservoir capacity.
S5.1.1.1 Air compressor cut-in pressure. The air compressor governor cut-in pressure for each bus shall be 85 p.s.i. or greater. The air compressor governor cut-in pressure for each truck shall be 100 p.s.i. or greater.
Quote from: NoRivets on August 28, 2010, 09:19:58 AM
So - how long is this crap going to go on?
there I said it >:(
Until even the most nugget newbie here understands the danger that a bad air system poses, I guess, and is no longer willing to give a pass to the guy who risked all those lives for 1200 miles.
Or maybe until I can read this thread without seeing the young wife of a friend of mine, who was here in Nevada just two weeks ago but will never be back, because the brakes failed on the bus she was in.
Man all this BS comes from a guy asking a simple question , who was the guy here that drove from MN to TX with a electric compressor before he found somebody to repair it I never read where he left a string of accidents in his travels,people do what they gotta do
Keep all the DOT stuff out of it I doubt if 90% of the buses here would pass one take a 150 bucks or so and see
Quote from: luvrbus on August 28, 2010, 10:20:37 AM
Man all this BS comes from a guy asking a simple question , who was the guy here that drove from MN to TX with a electric compressor before he found somebody to repair it I never read where he left a string of accidents in his travels,people do what they gotta do
Keep all the DOT stuff out of it I doubt if 90% of the buses here would pass one take a 150 bucks or so and see
X2
I've never placed anyone on my ignore list before but I think I'm finding a new use for that list.
Personally I get tired of people using the forum for beating others over the head with their personal crusades refusing to leave things alone until everyone is beaten and squelched (controlled) into meek submission. It really detracts from the overall intent and purpose of the forum. This is how we lose members folks!
Point made, some will agree and others, apparently many won't or will see abuse in the presentation and a bulldogged refusal to leave things alone. I hope I see a lock coming in here soon.
Next topic?
Quote from: BG6 on August 28, 2010, 08:46:17 AM
Quote from: Jriddle on August 27, 2010, 04:58:33 PMSome vehicles are operating in worse condition I'm sure.
And you're OKAY with that . . ?
Try this one -- your wife and kids are in the Toyota on the highway just ahead of Merlin's coach and the Harbor Freight compressor that he's been using for 1100 miles. This idea works for you?
I don't think everyone here is giving anyone a pass to run without an OEM compressor. I think most are saying it is over and done with and that is what he did. I didn't say I would go 1200 or 1100 miles this way. I said I would try it to get off the road. I am sorry about your friend but you can't blame this BUSNUT for that!!!!!!!
Girls ! lets all be nice now and give it a Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Quote from: steve wardwell on August 28, 2010, 10:54:37 AM
Girls ! lets all be nice now and give it a Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Amen
Hell, I drove 5000 miles with my wife in the back using a bicycle pump to keep the brakes working. I would just be careful not to use the brakes when she got tired.
thats it. We are all bozo's on this bus.......................................................forum...........................................lol...........................s.................
Quote from: Busted Knuckle]
And yes it took a little time to get the replacement compressor from MN. not 6 weeks, but not the next day either. (thanks Craig! ;))
Quote from: BG6
You were buying a new one, right?
NO! I bought a good known used compressor that came off Brian Deihl's 96A3 when he changed over to a cummins engine. Craig aka "Gumpy" acquired it from him the night I was there checking out his engine swap. In turn I called Craig and aquired it from him, and it went on my 96A3 !
Quote from: BG6
Yesterday I checked six truck places for a compressor for my coach. Two had no clue what a 6V92T is, but one of THOSE had the compressor on the shelf new, two rebuilt, and the other could get it overnight if I ordered by 2PM. Three of the four that knew my engine had the compressor, and the other gave me the name of two wrecking yards that were likely to have one and suggested that Freightliner in Salt Lake City would probably have a shelf full of them (he was wrong, they only have five).
If I upchucked the compressor shaft this morning (Saturday), I would be on the road again by Tuesday afternoon.
That's not calling Ted or Luke -- in each case I was calling the nearest places I could find online, in rural northern Nevada.
While your claiming to know so much and able to get the "right" compressor off the shelf for your bus, suppose you tell us what compressor it is you can get so much faster than the rest of us "stupid" people who would replace it with a new, used or rebuilt TU-FLO 750! (a 750 cfm which is needed on a coach due to the extra air suspension & brake needs over a simple truck compressor!)
Those compressors that you are claiming to be able to have instantly locally are most likely a 500 CFM most standard and maybe a 600! But I guarantee you none of them have or can get you your compressor that quick! I know where to get them and MCI even takes 2-3 days to get you an overpriced re-man because they get it the same place they do for less than 1/2 what they charge! I have been there and done that! More than once and now have a new re-man and a good used spare that passes some oil but pumps good air and would get a bus on it's way in an emergency on the shelf for the next time my MCI or any busnut needed it! (even you)
;D BK ;D
Quote from: BG6 on August 28, 2010, 09:43:25 AM
Quote from: thomasinnv on August 27, 2010, 08:29:20 PMso, air is necessary to allow the vehicle to move...loose too much air and the vehicle will come to a stop. do i have this right so far?
NO, and someone may DIE because you don't understand this, so pay attention.
no need to be hateful. aren't we adults here?
Quote
Lose air and you get an uncommanded and uncontrollable application of the DRIVE AXLE brakes. If you are going slow and on the flat, they will lock the drive wheels. If you are on a downgrade or at highway speed, they will slow you until they overheat, at which point you have NO brakes on ANY axle.
You have NO braking on the front axle (or tag, if so equipped), meaning that you have -- at best -- ONLY 30% OF YOUR BRAKES, and that assumes a speed below 40 MPH, even weight distribution on all axles, good traction on level ground.
Why do you think they have runwaway truck ramps on downgrades?
what i said above was simply a generalization. i completely understand everything you wrote about what happens when the air goes 'bye bye'. meaning, i understand that when air is too low or gone all together that the drive axle brakes will apply. i watch my guages like a hawk and i would never continue cruizing on down the road while the buzzer is blasting away, and the guage needle is falling. i would be pulling over at the first sign of trouble, but that's just me.
Quote
Quoteok, so i guess maybe i am saying i don't see the big problem with what he did. can't say that i would have went 1200 miles that way, but i don't see where the danger was in what he did. how is what he did any more dangerous than running with the oem compressor?
The OEM compressor was designed to put out 15 cfm at 150 PSI with a 100% duty cycle (DOT minimum standard). The Harbor Freight compressor is SUPPOSED to put out 4 cfm at 90 psi with a 30% duty cycle -- and they have a 10% infant mortality rate (where they die within the initial warranty period), so maybe they thing doesn't even meet that low standard.
900 cubic feet per hour at 150 psi (certified) or 76 cubic feet per hour at 90 psi (maybe). NOW do you see a problem . . ?
ok, i'll give you that one. IF i were to attempt to move the bus with a temporary air supply i certainly would never do it with a harbor freight cheapo, or any other small cfm pump.
Quote
Quotei would also be interested to see the dot regulation that states it is illegal to drive with a temporary air supply. not saying it don't believe there is one because i am sure there is...i am just curious as to how it is written.
Is THIS your card . . ? From 49 Code of Federal Regulations 571.121:
S5.1.1 Air compressor. An air compressor of sufficient capacity to increase air pressure in the supply and service reservoirs from 85 psi to 100 psi when the engine is operating at the vehicle manufacturer's maximum recommended r.p.m. within a time, in seconds, determined by the quotient (Actual reservoir capacity×25)/Required reservoir capacity.
S5.1.1.1 Air compressor cut-in pressure. The air compressor governor cut-in pressure for each bus shall be 85 p.s.i. or greater. The air compressor governor cut-in pressure for each truck shall be 100 p.s.i. or greater.
CARD? no card. like i said, i just wanted to see where and how it was written. If your going to act like you know every thing and claim it to be law, then don't get pissy when someone asks for the facts to back it up. you seem to be a fairly knowledgable fellow. my self being a newby, i ask questions. thats how we learn. how about a little mercy? i don't know you and i won't try to form an opinion about you, but you seem to take it a bit too personal. Thank you for your response, be Blessed.
My point is I get so pissed off at some who get on their soap boxes proclaiming dot regulations and they know someone who got injured by someone that possibly had a problem. All of us with these old busses have some common sense (actually probably not) but we have to use some common sense to keep these units running up and down the road. I get sick and tired of one individual in particular that never contributes to what this forum is about but can sure keep posting and spouting off about what is correct and legal. Time for the ignore button.
Quote from: Chopper Scott on August 28, 2010, 02:56:53 PM
All of us with these old busses have some common sense (actually probably not) but we have to use some common sense to keep these units running up and down the road. I get sick and tired of one individual in particular that never contributes to what this forum is about but can sure keep posting and spouting off about what is correct and legal. Time for the ignore button.
If I had a lick of common sense I wouldn't have a bus but as the family and neighborhood eccentric I must. ;D ;)
If I had two licks I wouldn't be here reading this petty topic and would be spending my Saturday out at the drag races but here I am. ???
"What he said" on the rest.
I'm going to the races!
Hi Folks,
Just a reminder... Let's not bash anybody! If you think another member is wrong,
simply state your facts and move on!!!
Hope I don't have to lock this thread down cause it's intresting!
Nick-
Sorry Nick.
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on August 28, 2010, 12:27:51 PM
Those compressors that you are claiming to be able to have instantly locally are most likely a 500 CFM most standard and maybe a 600!
No doubt. I told them I have a 6V92T and wanted to know price and availability on a compressor.
And you know what the difference between them is? Cylinder bore size. Meaning that the crankshaft and connecting rods can be swapped between them.
Quote
But I guarantee you none of them have or can get you your compressor that quick! I know where to get them and MCI even takes 2-3 days to get you an overpriced re-man because they get it the same place they do for less than 1/2 what they charge! I have been there and done that! More than once and now have a new re-man and a good used spare that passes some oil but pumps good air and would get a bus on it's way in an emergency on the shelf for the next time my MCI or any busnut needed it! (even you)
;D BK ;D
Why would I need that, when there's a Harbor Fright only 20 miles away? ;)
Quote from: luvrbus on August 28, 2010, 10:20:37 AMI doubt if 90% of the buses here would pass one take a 150 bucks or so and see
Gee, THAT sure makes me feel confident when I see a conversion coming the other way!
Mine passed DOT 6 months ago.
I don't want to start any arguments here but I think there is some confusion here about how many CFM a bus air compressor produces. When I worked on the crew that sandblasted highway bridges we used a 2000 CFM air compressor powered by a 16V71 twin turbo engine so I doubt that a bus air compressor could be 750 CFM. I don't think three bus air compressors would supply enough air to run four commercial sand blast nozzles. I'm guessing that the 15 CFM figure I read here is closer to the size of a bus air compressor.
Good luck, Sam MC8
Post your DOT numbers and you can show the guys that it can be done I said 90% you maybe in the 10% I don't know or care and Sam most of the compressors are around 10cfm +/- depending on the model and rpm (1250) at idle most are around 3 cfm
good luck
Quote from: thomasinnv on August 28, 2010, 02:36:19 PM
If your going to act like you know every thing and claim it to be law, then don't get pissy when someone asks for the facts to back it up.
I was trying to inject some humor into it. "Is THIS your card?" is a running Penn & Teller gag.
You know what?
I GIVE UP.
I'm not going to bother trying to keep you guys alive, or save you from remembering some kid's face in the back seat for the rest of your lives.
Feel free to drive any damn piece of junk you chose, any way you choose, an brag to each other about how you got away with your latest stupid stunt. I will just keep my eyes open for anyone in a coach conversion, and stay way away from him, because it might be you.
DOT allows school busses to have belt driven compressors. I feel safer with the Harbor Freight compressor and the operator glued to the air gauge than being around an International powered school bus.
Come on guys, I do not even own a bus. I joined because I have a intrest in restoreing old vehicles and this site impressed me greatly with the members that always helped out others when broken down.
Advise has been given, I am sure the original poster knows what he did with the external compressor may not have been right but was it any worse than an original compressor failing while out on the road?
I am sure the original low air warning still worked and if the bus has spring brakes they work also.
Move on and restore the site to the loving,helping that has drawn most of us here.
Wow!
I guess it was probably wrong of me to fix my air system with a wine cork and continue on down the road, huh?
Quote from: BG6 on August 28, 2010, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: thomasinnv on August 28, 2010, 02:36:19 PM
If your going to act like you know every thing and claim it to be law, then don't get pissy when someone asks for the facts to back it up.
I was trying to inject some humor into it. "Is THIS your card?" is a running Penn & Teller gag.
if that be the case i must then apologize for my comments. i failed to pick that up.
Gumpy A WINE CORK -- I remember that post and I was mostly distressed that you didn't use a cork from IMPORTED wine but a cork from domestic wine --- these buses are IMPORTED from Canada and we need to use corks that are imported.
Melbo
Quote from: Melbo on August 28, 2010, 08:18:05 PM
Gumpy A WINE CORK -- I remember that post and I was mostly distressed that you didn't use a cork from IMPORTED wine but a cork from domestic wine --- these buses are IMPORTED from Canada and we need to use corks that are imported.
Melbo
I was mostly distressed that I had a cork on the dash, and didn't have to open and finish a new bottle first! ::) Not that it's necessarily akin to import, but it was a cork from my
homemade wine. Maybe that's even more domestic than domestic wine.
OK I admit I don't know the cfm rating on these compressors!
But I do know for a fact that the MCI 96A3 & 102A3 up through D models spec a TU-Flo 750 and not some 500, 550, or 600 found on any truck shop in the country!
And I know that in order to get one it takes 2-3 days we've had more than one fail and that is why I bought the great take out from Gumpy to have a core to send in for the re-maned that sits on the shelf now!
Just telling a truck shop it's for a 6V92TA means diddly squat except that the person on the other end of the phone knew less than you and I SURE wouldn't be buying from them! (must have been the same shop that told Cody "we don't work on weedeaters" when asked if they had any mechanics that knew about working on 2 strokes!)
;D BK ;D
I'm not taking sides, but I am interested in what the law actually says on the subject of air brake compressors. This is what I've found so far, at least at the Federal level:
Part 393.40: Required brake systems. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=393.40 (http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=393.40)
Quote(b)(2) Air brake systems. Buses, trucks and truck-tractors equipped with air brake systems and manufactured on or after March 1, 1975, and trailers manufactured on or after January 1, 1975, must, at a minimum, have a service brake system that meets the requirements of FMVSS No. 121 in effect on the date of manufacture. Motor vehicles which were not subject to FMVSS No. 121 on the date of manufacture must have a service brake system that meets the applicable requirements of §§393.42, 393.48, 393.49, 393.51, and 393.52 of this subpart.
What I find interesting here is that standard 121 doesn't even apply to older vehicles...they have to pass some performance tests, but are otherwise grandfathered.
Part 571.121: Standard No. 121; Air brake systems. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=571.121 (http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=571.121)
QuoteS5.1 Required equipment for trucks and buses. Each truck and bus shall have the following equipment:
S5.1.1 Air compressor. An air compressor of sufficient capacity to increase air pressure in the supply and service reservoirs from 85 psi to 100 psi when the engine is operating at the vehicle manufacturer's maximum recommended r.p.m. within a time, in seconds, determined by the quotient (Actual reservoir capacity×25)/Required reservoir capacity.
S5.1.1.1 Air compressor cut-in pressure. The air compressor governor cut-in pressure for each bus shall be 85 p.s.i. or greater. The air compressor governor cut-in pressure for each truck shall be 100 p.s.i. or greater.
I fail to find any written requirement that air compressors be original equipment, engine-driven, or DOT certified, so long as they meet the performance requirements. I realize an actual DOT inspector could give you grief regardless of the law, but if there's an actual regulation/law against it, I haven't found it.
Perhaps I'm not finding the right documents? What else should I look at?
Some of you might remember when our compresser failed when I was in Palm Springs moving to Texas back in 06. I was lucky to have a HF compressor, tapped it into the front port used for towing. I moved it off the Exit ramp and across the freeway to wait for help. It took forever to build air, but it did. Clifford and Sonja supplied me with a new compressor and I was on my way to Abilene to meet up with my wife and in-laws on Christmas day.
I was a amazed that it worked and thank goodness I had one. I would do it again the same way if it ever happens again. I got rid of the HF and bought a larger one from Sears. I haven't tapped into the air yet, but plan to.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi363.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo78%2FDreamscape_Eagle%2FTrips%2FSnorkel.jpg&hash=e2360b5b7d214eb9f997f487e4a9e34aecf6e552)
BK, that is funny about the weed eaters, but I believe it with the experiences we have had with truck stops. ::)
Ive read through this thread and many others, including the one by the guy whos leaving. Ive been on a few other forums, and after a while you see the same garbage, people so anal about things they make everyone want to leave.
Here is the deal, and for those who wish we all followed the letter of the law read carefully. Laws are written more often to keep bureaucrats busy than anything else. Someone got hurt, a bunch of Mommy's got upset and said "there has to be a law", and there you go.
But this is NOT Soviet Russia, and there is no Politico riding shotgun with me. I am free to do what I want, when I want, how I want. If you dont like it, tough. Call the law on me. Boy that would be funny. Officer, there is a bus running down the road with a non DOT approved air compressor on his RV running off a two bit air compressor. Boy, Ican see the blue light special coming after me from here.
If and when I get a bus, I will endevour to make it fully roadworthy and fully road safe, as I do any vehicle. But dont read me the law about how best to get the damned thing to where I feel I want to get it to. If I could get it home safely using auxillary equipment that "I" determine to be adequate, I will do it. And thats it in a nut shell. Freedom to make your own decisions. If your an idiot, everyone will find out sooner or later. Id much rather have someone with a brain driving an antique bus down the road with a makeshift compressor with his eye on the gauge, than some moron millionaire in his million dollar coach that doesnt have a clue, regardless how "DOT" perfect his rig is. Some people just have no common sense.
What he said ! (artvonne)
Maybe some of us that haven't posted much because of the Scrutiny. I may decide to participate in the forum more often. We're not a bunch of wreckless dingle-berries !. I've spent 13 wonderful years working on my bus making sure that things are Safe and Fun.
My judgement on things is All I need. Reading others' opinions on different subjects gives me 'food for thought' and enhances my knowledge and makes me better informed - But that information will be weighed against what I already know and how it applies to my circumstances. Not everything that is spewed from the 'almighty informers' will be correct
But I hesitate to chime in when there are 'over-bearing' - 'abrasive' - 'judgemental' folks who insist that everyone else 'tow the line' or be subject to their ridicule.
I say it'll be better now - (cautiously optimistic)
phil
So just how failure prone are these air compressors? Good idea to carry a spare? whats the going rate for a quality rebuilt?
Quote from: artvonne on August 29, 2010, 12:34:20 PM
So just how failure prone are these air compressors? Good idea to carry a spare? whats the going rate for a quality rebuilt?
Well, I bought a spare and carried it for about 8 years. Never needed it. Needed a spare alternator, which I didn't have. But have not needed the spare air compressor.
So, the spare air compressor is now sitting in the garage. I'm going to box it up ready to ship. Then, if I need it while I'm away from home,
I can call my neighbor and have him ship it to me.
Oh, and I'm also going to get my HF air compressor installed in the bay and connected into the air system, so I can avoid the high shipping charges on that spare! ::)
Quote from: artvonne on August 29, 2010, 11:16:56 AM
Ive read through this thread and many others, including the one by the guy whos leaving. Ive been on a few other forums, and after a while you see the same garbage, people so anal about things they make everyone want to leave.
Here is the deal, and for those who wish we all followed the letter of the law read carefully. Laws are written more often to keep bureaucrats busy than anything else. Someone got hurt, a bunch of Mommy's got upset and said "there has to be a law", and there you go.
But this is NOT Soviet Russia, and there is no Politico riding shotgun with me. I am free to do what I want, when I want, how I want. If you dont like it, tough. Call the law on me. Boy that would be funny. Officer, there is a bus running down the road with a non DOT approved air compressor on his RV running off a two bit air compressor. Boy, Ican see the blue light special coming after me from here.
If and when I get a bus, I will endevour to make it fully roadworthy and fully road safe, as I do any vehicle. But dont read me the law about how best to get the damned thing to where I feel I want to get it to. If I could get it home safely using auxillary equipment that "I" determine to be adequate, I will do it. And thats it in a nut shell. Freedom to make your own decisions. If your an idiot, everyone will find out sooner or later. Id much rather have someone with a brain driving an antique bus down the road with a makeshift compressor with his eye on the gauge, than some moron millionaire in his million dollar coach that doesnt have a clue, regardless how "DOT" perfect his rig is. Some people just have no common sense.
X2
My attempt to turn this thread back to the positive, I can see the wisdom in replacing the compressor on my 4104 with a rebuilt one or pulling the one in the bus and having it checked out as I have no idea how long the one I have in has been in service...
I second and add to Artvonnes question, has any one rebuilt the original compressor in a 4104 or are you better off to buy a rebuilt one? What are the thinks to look for to tell if your compressor is in need of attention? If I was are getting a lot of oil in the drain tanks I know this would be a concern but what else should I look for? How much oil in the first tank is acceptable? The PO of the bus had been on 2 long cross country trips in my 4104 in the past 2 years and had just drained the tank in the front and did not know about the rear drain, when I drained it I got about 2 quarts of water and probably a half quart of really nasty looking oil. Is this acceptable? I am thinking pulling the compressor and going thru it and maybe even the generator might be a good winters project.
Lets turn this into a helping thread for those of us new to these old buses. I, like a lot of people here do not have really deep pockets but am very much interested in the safety of my passengers and the other people on the road.
Artvonne, I enjoyed our visit and thanks for the kind words about my bus and place, keep in touch.
Rick
hello all i am the guy whom asked a simple question
i am sorry to all forever asking .i like it here for the knowledge and experience .
i will install an electric air compressor
thanks to all
i will shut up for now
Quote from: moose on August 29, 2010, 02:50:18 PM
hello all i am the guy whom asked a simple question
i am sorry to all forever asking .i like it here for the knowledge and experience .
i will install an electric air compressor
thanks to all
i will shut up for now
No, you asked a vadid question, no need to appologise. Some of us dont have great sums of money to have a tow everytime some little thing goes wrong. And surprisingly, niether do a lot of small bus lines. They have their own tow rigs, or they go out with a truck to repair it on the road. I have seen nothing wrong with the idea of using an auxilliary air compressor to get you down the road to a place you can repair it. How far that would be is up to the operator/owner, and no one else.
Quote from: Rick59-4104 on August 29, 2010, 01:46:44 PM
Artvonne, I enjoyed our visit and thanks for the kind words about my bus and place, keep in touch.
Rick
Your welcome Rick. I had a great time and hated to leave. I went home via Harrison, what a awesome view of that valley from up on the mountain looing down on Harrison. I hope we can get together again.
I'm with those who believe that 1200 miles is excessive, but to "jerry rig" (by the way--originally an insult to the British!) it get off the road to a safe place is a good thing to do.
I know it can take hours to get a tow truck to your location, and all that time you are a sitting duck to get hit from behind, traffic obstacle, and rubbernecker distraction on the interstate.
What is really dangerous on the highway is the 80,000 lb truck behind you that does have working DOT compliant brakes, but is tailgaiting you so close he can't see the back end of your car----a lot of good the brakes will do!
Also very dangerous is the same trucker also talking on his non-hands free cell phone at the same time.
This board is not meant to be a sanctoning body for the sport of bus conversion, but rather a place to learn, share experience and ideas, and help with locating parts and resourses common to our bus conversion endeavors.
If you feel you need to "judge" someone's actions, then also offer help -- and forgiveness!
OK I will get off the soapbox now!
Steve Toomey
pabusnut
Quote from: moose on August 29, 2010, 02:50:18 PM
hello all i am the guy whom asked a simple question
i am sorry to all forever asking .i like it here for the knowledge and experience .
i will install an electric air compressor
thanks to all
i will shut up for now
Moose, you did nothing wrong though I can understand you feeling as you do like you lit a fuse.
Don't sweat it, these things happen and it's a learning curve. You learned something I'm sure though I hope it wasn't to remain silent and everyone else learned something. It'll happen again, just wait a while.
I'm afraid that many would have done the same or similar though maybe not for the same duration but that's the curve and besides, I wasn't there, you were. I would have then and still would do the exact same thing to get me off the road and to a safe place!
Come in, sit down and relax, it all blows over eventually and things move on. If anyone keeps hard feelings and stays away then my feeling is that possibly the group is better off in the end without the antagonists though that's not my wish, we are little more than a knowledge base compiled of everyone's experiences and talents and we need all we can get, especially with me here to put a load on it ;D .
You are welcome in my camp or home any time and I for one will listen, absorb and offer help if I possibly can.
-Dave
The purpose of an auxillary air compressor is to keep the coach aired up while parked with engine off. Also makes it easy to start and go early in the A.M. without irritating the camper with idling detroit waiting to build air before he can move. With auxillary air as soon as oil pressure comes up your ready to move. I don't think that the person who drove so far on an electric air compressor had on board for that reason but as he saw that it could keep up he went. His judgement call maybe not the best but he was careful and made it. beating him with a stck because you would not do that is just not acceptable. Make a bad decision get a bad outcome you pay. use poor judgement and get away with it with no harm then no foul.
"Moose, you did nothing wrong though I can understand you feeling as you do like you lit a fuse".
just not so nice when these things go bang
QuoteHell, I drove 5000 miles with my wife in the back using a bicycle pump to keep the brakes working. I would just be careful not to use the brakes when she got tired.
I don't know why, but I find that seriously funny. ROTFLMAO!
Dang-it! Leave for a few days and everyone goes nuts! Someone dropped the ball because this is not on the board calender. I didn't know this was the weekend we where supposed to play with our flame throwers and mine is INOP. Appreciate the heads up guys. Oh well, I guess I will just ride this one out. Where is the pool on how many will delete their account? I want to get in on it.
We'll let's see now-if you drive an air brake vehicle that has a small engine with no accessary gear drives, then the compressor is belt driven. If you have an electric bus or electric trolley, the compressor is electric motor driven. On most train locomotives, the air compressor is electric motor driven (some are direct driven too).
If you have an electric stand by compressor that puts out sufficient volume and pressure, what's the big deal? If it doesn't keep up, your low pressure warning comes on at around 65psi, and if you don't stop, hopefully the maxi brakes will lock up and stop you then. Sometimes, you just have to do what you have to do. Good Luck, TomC
Just went over the thread, and I too, cannot understand what the HUGE fuss was about.
If someone wanted to use a 2cfm compressor as a permanent solution, then I'd be a little worried. But a decently powered 4-5 cfm model, as a temporary means of getting to another part of the country, why not? As some mentioned, there're many electric compressors that easily out-do engine driven ones, both output AND duty cycle.
And what's all this DOT talk? Having the privilage to work as both a charter coach driver, and commerical driving school coordinator, I meet many "professional" and "future professional" drivers who are absolutely clueless about their DOT inspected bus air systems. You really think that outdoor activity teacher is going to keep a keen eye on the air gauge on a school camping trip, or even know how to handle a low air situation?
I'd much rather be in an older, non DOT certified coach, with a driver that has a passion for what he drives, and a desire to understand the mechanical systems on-board his bus. He may have a mod or two that is not "OEM" or "DOT", but chances are, he's put a lot of thought into it, and knows the system well enough to atleast spot a potential trouble. This guy is your typical busnut, and is usually much more careful/knowledgeable than your run of the mill commercial driver, who has absolutely zero interest in what he drives, except use it to feed his family.
Quote from: RoyJ on August 30, 2010, 06:19:45 PM
and is usually much more careful/knowledgeable than your run of the mill commercial driver, who has absolutely zero interest in what he drives, except use it to feed his family.
Very well said. This last weekend my friend and I drove 1000 miles to pick up a Crown tandem that he bought (Detroit 6-71, 10-speed Roadranger, a very cool bus!), and as we were driving back down 99 through the San Joaquin valley I was looking at the number of potentially serious infractions on passing trucks. Remember, all these drivers have commercial class-A licenses. There was the semi trailer crabbing at least two feet sideways - the driver must have known about it, because he was driving on the left white line as his trailer's rear was on the right white line. There were two (count them) loads of large-diameter piping that were visibly moving on their trailers - nah, cribbing and straps are over-rated. There was a rig that passed us with two visibly flat trailer tires, and (I'm sure this was just a shear coincidence) a few miles later there he was on the shoulder with two shredded tires - fancy that, how would he have known about the importance of correct inflation pressures? We were doing exactly 55 MPH (the Crown has mountain gearing!), and not a single truck was going at our speed - some passed us like we were standing still. Then climbing Tehachapi a truck ahead of us decided to pass another truck going 1 MPH slower than he - that wouldn't have been a problem if it were a three lane road, but that section is only two lanes, so he caused a lot of aggravation to a lot of other people.
Us busnuts aren't perfect, but we have more involvement with our vehicles than many "professional" drivers out there, and we know that if we break something we have to pay for the consequences (or worse). My gut feeling is that most of us are better drivers than many "professional" drivers, and we are more atuned to our buses' mechanical wellbeing than most other road users are to their vehicles.
John
Maybe it is perception.
When something is done as a bandaid & temporary fix (to be operated by knowledgeable mechanics to move the vehicle to a safer location), that is a very different situation than if that same jerry-rigged repair is viewed as a satisfactory repair suitable for road service, including long trips.
The glib attitude that "loss of air is no big deal because the 'emergency' brakes will stop you" shows a lack of understanding. The safety systems are the last lines of defense when proper maintenance isn't enough to prevent fluke failures.
(BTW, there are different 'emergency' braking systems in use. Some have a separate air storage tank & will apply full system air pressure to all brakes. Some have spring brakes on the drive axle only & they provide maybe 30 psi application pressure. My buses have the spring brake only on the tag axle. So, one should KNOW the system on the vehicle they are driving.)
The fact that those safety systems exist is no excuse to ignore proper maintenance. Is that any different than skipping an airplane's preflight inspection because the seat cushions can be used as a flotation device?
When addressing newbies, it is best to err on the side of caution. Believe it or not, there are some that have driven thousands of miles in their rig & never knew they had air brakes or how they work - never mind checking the slack adjusters.
I think it is a noble thing when someone is passionate about the safety of their friends & it is sad when that passion is misunderstood & ridiculed. Sadder still when unsafe/ reckless behaviour is endorsed as an acceptable solution vs. a temporary emergency crutch.
But that is only my opinion. . . . ;)
Quote from: Barn Owl on August 29, 2010, 08:42:22 PM
QuoteHell, I drove 5000 miles with my wife in the back using a bicycle pump to keep the brakes working. I would just be careful not to use the brakes when she got tired.
I am with you Barn Owl, that is seriously funny. I can just see that going on in a cartoon. Enough said. ;D
Quote from: moose on August 29, 2010, 02:50:18 PM
hello all i am the guy whom asked a simple question
i am sorry to all forever asking .i like it here for the knowledge and experience .
i will install an electric air compressor
thanks to all
i will shut up for now
Moose,
Don't sweat it!
It was a good question and brought up an interesting line of debate with many interesting temp fixes, solutions and answers.
One of the good things that came out of this was if our Pastor ever gets sick, I know where I can find a a few good Preachers. Of course they may have to work on their delivery, but I know they are passionate about the message. ;)