Sad day, driving to Home Depot to pickup a new refreierator my motor locked up. I knew the motor was weak when I purchased the bus. Now what to do. The bus is in the shop and they are working me a quote. Im goin on a limb to say new rebuilt motor is more than the bus is worth. Hopefully I can find a documented low mile used motor for a fair price. If not I maybe better off buying a different bus or maybe a donor bus. My bus is a 1982 MCI 9, with a 6v92 engine. Hopefully I can locate a good motor close to Oklahoma City.
Sorry to hear the news. There are alot of options with 6V92 transit "pullouts"
You might want to consider a Series 50 install.
I think that a 6V92 swap with a good used engine might be achievable, they seem to be the more available option these days. I'm thinking you might have one installed in the $5K region. From my research a S50 is an excellent option for your bus, they are also available, but the installed cost is more like $15K. That's what I was told to budget if I did most of the work myself.
Brian
Some of us have been in your shoes and it is a terrible feeling. In my case, I lost the 6V92 and my first Series 60. So, I can relate.
I assume you posted this to get some input and look for an engine.
In order for us to help you with your decision, we need to know more about your bus. Is it converted? Is the conversion done well with good equipment (name inverter, good tanks, name diesel generator, etc.). If it is well done, it probably makes sense to replace the engine.
If you bus is just a shell, then the answer becomes more difficult.
No matter what, you coach will not have much value (fact of the market). Having said that, you can find some real bargains. However, bargains can still give you $$$ problems.
So the issue you will struggle with is whether you want to stick with the devil you know, or try another person's devil
I think it will be real hard to find a "documented" 6V92. If you do, you need to be very sure that you get real documentation.
If you have yours rebuilt, be careful of the re-builder. The best is a DD reliabilt replacement engine ($20-25K). Next best is a DD rebuild. They have three stages of rebuilt: http://detroitdieselstepup.com/whystepup.asp (http://detroitdieselstepup.com/whystepup.asp) You will note that the 4th sage is the replacement engine. That program seems to be aimed at the Series 60, but I would bet they have the same thing for the two-strokes.
If you have an independent person do the rebuild, be sure to get more than one reference. Lots of shops are hungry right now and will tell you anything you want to hear to get you in the door.
Jim
I was typing when the others replied. They mentioned a Series 50. Indeed many feel that is a good swap. Some folks don't like the Series 50 because of balance issues. In addition a Cummins M11/ISM also make a great conversion.
Any conversion to a 4-stroke is a very big undertaking. One of the biggest issues is the gearing needed to run the 4-stroke in the proper RPM range (need 30% "overdrive" to make them the happiest).
Also, I don't often disagree with Brian, but there is no way you could do a conversion for $15K unless you did all the work yourself and then you would have to find a pretty good bargain on the engine.
If you at all consider doing an engine conversion I suggest you review the three part series on engine conversion considerations that I wrote for BCM.
Jim
Are you sure it is terminal ? I know locked up is not a vague term, but what has happened ? Any thing leading up to this ? Ran out of oil, or was it just "time".
As others have said, many promises to get you in the door, And it is a real bad spot to negotiate once your engine is apart on their shop floor.
I dunno if Nimco is of any assistance in Lovely North Jersey. Best kept property on that block is the Jail..
Best of luck,
Gary
In my opinion, documentation is a distraction since it is way too easy to fake paperwork or to ruin a perfectly good motor in a few of miles of abuse from an uninformed driver. If you drive a 2stroke like a 4stroke, you will hurt it.
As for used motors - Best bet is to find one that you & your preferred mechanic can hear & see it run (test drive is even better). If you can't run the motor, I'd work a deal where I could have the compression checked before I bought it - if the compression checked good, pay the man & leave with your new motor. Have the rack run (- you'll have to since the injectors were removed) & I'd also install new bearings while it is out. Then put her in & enjoy the ride.
Best of luck to you!
No disagreement there, Mr RV, the $15k price was what I was told a person with many years of bus experience and complete capability to do the job himself spent doing the job himself. I personally think the experience was what let him do that, it wasn't his first rodeo (gent I met at the Palmetto rally in March/april this year, had been full-timing in his bus for 20 odd years, and this was about the third engine he had put in it - Some of you know who I mean but I don't know his name. He chaired the discussion session in the clubhouse.)
I think the engine bit is great, but the electronic control bit would be very very hard to get right. There were three or four S50 powered MCI's at the rally, all done a bit differently, particularly the turbo install, exhaust, TPS, things like that. I just brought it up because someone else mentioned Series 50.
Brian
Nimco in New Jersey has a running take out 6V92 that is out of a MCI I think for $3500.00 FOB Newark,NJ.They can ship by truck to your location.Good folks to deal with. ;D
800-526-8055 as for Jim Robinson
Nick is no longer with Nimco. >:(
jlv
We could just wait til Hard headed Ken get the series 50 in the silversides. Then we will know the real cost.
And also know how much work it is. and if he does you can be assured it will be right.
uncle ned
PS wish the 50 were as avaliable 3 years ago as now. one would be in the back of huggy. No heating problems
Brian, I am glad that we are not in conflict ;D ;D. Yes, an engine swap can be done in the 10-15K range by the owner. I would count on at least 2-3K just on parts to make it happen. The last I heard, when Southern Oregon Diesel does an engine swap (they supposedly don't do them anymore), they charge over 40K from what I hear. Having done one, I think that is a fair price for a good shop.
Just to be clear here, I don't have a bone to pick with the Series 50. I was repeating what some folks have reported. I have talked to several folks who have done Series 50 swaps and they are happy. Have not talked to anyone who was not happy.
If the person who had done the multiple swaps owned an Eagle, it was probably Jack Campbell.
Jim
Yes Jack's is very well done and so is his son jerry's. one is a eagle and the other is a mci.
And they removed big 8v92's
I think Lynn Silver over looked and kept jack straight. LOL LOL both great guys
uncle ned
You might want to look at this. It has been forsale for a long time. You could make a deal and drive it home and may have a little resale coming back to you.
http://houston.craigslist.org/rvs/1822329787.html (http://houston.craigslist.org/rvs/1822329787.html)
Don't know my GM models very well. Would this be a reverse rotation engine?
Jim
Wow, what a day. Maybe good news but I doubt it. The shop was able to get the engine to turn over and fire but It wont stay running. He said it is very possible its a head gasket but the oil was also extremely low. Im puzzled were the oil went I checked it a few days ago. We will know more if we find metal shaving in oil pan. I constintantly monitor engine temp. It has never been over 180 since I have had it. Maybe time for a new temp gauge. I believe I had a warning sign a few days ago. I had bus idling for awhile and when I shut it off the engine contunied to run for a few seconds. With gas engines we call this dieseling. It sometimes happens with gas engines predetionate when they overheat. I should have known better. I know sometimes weird things happen with blown headgaskets. Lets cross our fingers for the best. What a setback. I have had the coach two months and almost have the conversion completed. I have about 20k invested in bus. I dont really want to start over on a donor. This is really a nice coach.
Also they said when the tow truck showed up their was alot of antifreeze on the ground. To me it appearded to be diesel fuel mixed with anifreeze
That engine spun a bearing folks buying a bus with a 2 stroke would be money ahead to spend the 1000 bucks having new bearings rolled in or at the least checked, that is the very first things to do no one ever pays any attention to the 100,000 mile bearing service on those engines
good luck
Im afraid the previous post is probably correct. This fluid on the ground was definatly coming from the dripper tubes.
Check with Geoff in Prescott Valley, AZ phone number is 1-928-771-0045 or 1-928-553-4714 he know what he is doing.
ED
Call Howard or Jim @
American Fleet Services
2441 E. Jean St, Springfield, MO 65803
Toll Free: (877)865-4420
Fax: (417)831-0801
http://www.americanfleetinc.com/index.php (http://www.americanfleetinc.com/index.php)
Tell them Bryce from KY Lakeside Travel told you to call them! We have bought one of their remanufactured engines and a bus that they had for sale after the owner couldn't pay them for work he gave them the bus & title. Both ran like a dream! I was turned on to them by a friend who has bought many engines from them! (he has more buses and deeper pockets than I do!)
Very good people to work with!
(I have no vested interest in them nor do I stand to gain from sending you there!)
Also as mention there are take outs available.
;D BK ;D
Bad news indeed. I feel sorry for you. Without a doubt we will be following this thread and you will get some great info and advise.
HaHa I still have my spirit. Since bus is down and in the shop I have learned a ton. I spent all day reading manuals. Lets see what the shop says. then Ill make a decision on what happens next. I believe if Im going to be driving an old bus I better be willing to work on it. I smell a diesel engine being rebuilt by myself very soon HaHa.
And i was so close to having the inside done. Maybe owning two old buses wouldnt be a bad thing. Always have a spare on hand. Its still cheaper than owning a factory new RV
Might wanna get a hold of Larry & Cristy Hicks they live in the OKC (somewhere around Mustang or Elreno if I remember correctly!) area and have several buses for sale!
;D BK ;D
Any more news?
BK, where you or one of your buses at the Kentucky welcome center yesterday? I would have stopped but I had passed before I noticed it and I was trying to get as far away from Ohio as possible.
Update. Local shop is dropping oil pan to inspect for metal. If no metal in lower end and engine is rebuildable than the bus is getting towed to Springfield for in frame rebuild at www.americanfleetinc.com (http://www.americanfleetinc.com) for 6995.00 plus 1300 towing. Ouch this hurts the olbudget but she will be rebuilt with a 1 year or 100000 mile warrenty with reciepts to prove it. Ill have bus back on the 27th.
I am wanting some more info here.Now what exactly happend? were you driving and the engine really came to a dead stop or did it just die? How did the shop get it going. I would hate to think your batteries are dead from alt or something and they are taking you for a ride. Dropping the pan looking for metal seems extreme to me. Drain the oil and have it tested for $25 and run a sponge on a wire up through the drain hole. You will find metal if it is there. I just don't think need to pay for major surgery Just yet looking for metal.
30 minutes to drop the pan and pull a bearing cap he is on the right track,fwiw a if 92 series even gets
a whiff of antifreeze in the oil 90% of the time it will spin a bearing LOL hope for him it is not a main bearing if one spun very expensive to repair a spun main bearing on a engine
good luck
This is the news I was kinda hoping for! Your conversion is almost finished, this is going to hurt a bit but at the end of it you will have the legendary "rebuilt engine"! Just right for starting a new chapter in your book. I will have my fingers crossed this works out well for you. I guess I mean that if your engine is going to break, may as well break at home and be able to rebuild it, and start new again!
Brian
Well, Long story with bus. Its an 82 with DL3 body kit. I bought bus for 6000.00 two months ago knowing it had an internal oil leak. Myself and the mechanics believe the leak was from the blower. I called and priced a new blower and it was 800.00 I never took it any futher than that. I was more worried about finishing the inside of the bus I neglected the mechanics of the bus. I literally worked my butt off on the inside of the bus over the last two months. The inside is almost completed. I had the front windshield removed and was driving it less than a mile to pickup and brand new stainless side by side fridge with ice maker and water. HaHa. Big time huh. Anyways. The engine shut off at a stop light so I restarted it. Once I restarted it was fouling out so I revved her up and she cleared out. I made it another block and she shut down and the key wouldnt even click the motor.
I have been talking to a very close friend at Competition Cylinder Head in Mobile Alabama. He builds alot of these engines for off shore boats. He saids that turbo leaking by will suck the oil right out of that crankcase. Well anyways she was very low on oil never appereared to be hot and antifreeze was on the ground coming from the drippers. Sounds to me like a need a new top end and bottom eend haha. No other way around it other than planting a money tree.
Should know more about lower end tommorow when mechanics pull pan. Im assuming the fouling was probabbly from the antifreeze in a few cylinders.
Lesson learned dont neglect the mechanics to install a stainless fridge or granite countertops.
But all in all I think Im ok, 6k for bus 7k for rebuild. 13k for a zero mile coach. now braks and suspension. hehe. and ohh ya generator and one more roof air.
I should probabbly upgrade motor while Im here but Im ok with a slow 6v Ill just leave early.
As long as she makes it to where Imgoing.
Ohh ya Im considering full timing very soon. I have a storage lot and all I pay is the electric meter. Life doesnt get much simplier than thatt
FYI Bob. my big azzz sleeper sofa needs a big azzz slide. Wow dont ever put in a full size couch on a non slide bus. Big mistake. but very comfortable.
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on August 16, 2010, 04:27:16 PM
Call Howard or Jim @
American Fleet Services
2441 E. Jean St, Springfield, MO 65803
Toll Free: (877)865-4420
Fax: (417)831-0801
http://www.americanfleetinc.com/index.php (http://www.americanfleetinc.com/index.php)
Tell them Bryce from KY Lakeside Travel told you to call them! We have bought one of their remanufactured engines and a bus that they had for sale after the owner couldn't pay them for work he gave them the bus & title. Both ran like a dream! I was turned on to them by a friend who has bought many engines from them! (he has more buses and deeper pockets than I do!)
Very good people to work with!
(I have no vested interest in them nor do I stand to gain from sending you there!)
Also as mention there are take outs available.
;D BK ;D
Hey BK, just noticed your from Hunington. Wow my parents live in Camden You may even know them. They Own Johnsons repair shop.
Wax-um,
I told you American Fleet was good people! And don't be fooled into thinking that just because you only have a 6V92 it has to be slow! Both of the ones we got from them ran great! (I even had an experienced driver call me a liar and try to tell me the bus I'd just bought from them the day before "HAD TO HAVE AN 8V92, BECAUSE 6V's DON'T GAIN SPEED ON A HILL!" LOL! & I have to admit it was by far the STRONGEST running 6V92 I ever experienced in a 40' MCI!)
By the way even if it has some serious damage I believe they will still work with you and make you a deal that you both can live with! (they have with other people I know!)
Did you tell Howard I told you to call? (he didn't have too many bad things to say about me did he? ???)
;D BK ;D
Quote from: Wax-um
Hey BK, just noticed your from Hunington. Wow my parents live in Camden You may even know them. They Own Johnsons repair shop.
James is it ? That is too funny we were both typing at the same time! LOL!
Yes we are located just as you come into Huntingdon from Camden on US 70 on the left right beside the drive for the HS, Fair grounds and NG Armory!
Unfortunately, no I can't say I know them. We haven't been here long we just moved here in April. Would like to know more about them, what kind of repairs do they do?
I do know a guy who works at a small engine repair shop in Camden, but don't know the name of it.
;D BK ;D
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on August 16, 2010, 04:27:16 PM
Call Howard or Jim Bob @
American Fleet Services
2441 E. Jean St, Springfield, MO 65803
Toll Free: (877)865-4420
Fax: (417)831-0801
http://www.americanfleetinc.com/index.php (http://www.americanfleetinc.com/index.php)
Tell them Bryce from KY Lakeside Travel told you to call them! We have bought one of their remanufactured engines and a bus that they had for sale after the owner couldn't pay them for work he gave them the bus & title. Both ran like a dream! I was turned on to them by a friend who has bought many engines from them! (he has more buses and deeper pockets than I do!)
Very good people to work with!
(I have no vested interest in them nor do I stand to gain from sending you there!)
Also as mention there are take outs available.
;D BK ;D
In this previous response I incorrectly said Jim instead of Bob, bob & his son own American Fleet Services.
Again I have no affiliation with them nor do I stand to gain financially from telling folks about them.
They are just good folks to deal with!
;D BK ;D
I don't know if you saw this on ebay or not:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DETROIT-DIESEL-ENGINE-6V92-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ260652102298QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DETROIT-DIESEL-ENGINE-6V92-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ260652102298QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
I have no affiliation with the seller
Rick
Continued to this page.
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=17120.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=17120.0)
Up date--talked to Waxum (Jim) he is in Springfield Mo. waiting to pick up his Inframe with two new heads..He said post and he will update later...was bad but could have been much worse..he rode over with wrecker driver and is staying in a motel..maybe visit tbn in future..
Quote from: Wax-um on August 16, 2010, 12:08:19 PMIm goin on a limb to say new rebuilt motor is more than the bus is worth.
What stage are you in your conversion? If you haven't gotten too deep, I would find another coach -- there are plenty of them on the market for less than the price of a major overhaul.
Anyone else who gets into this situation, look for a good used semi -- a lot of good ones are on the market cheap after they hit 4 - 6 years.
Truck companies like to have owner-operators over the payment barrel, so the value of them plummets once they are old enough to be paid off.
I have seen tractors with Cat C-12s less than 500,000 miles sell for under $4,000 (yes, that's FOUR THOUSAND dollars), and the market is even worse today than it was 5 years ago. It would probably be possible to find one with a Series 50 or 60 in the under $10K range.
Yahoo. Im home. Yes as Bob said, she was in bad shape. It had two cracked heads, blown head gasket broken rocker arm, and one bad injector. The lower end was good but he said their wasnt too many miles left on the mains.The total was was 6,995 for an inframe rebuild. Plus 1,300 for the tow. I know I could have bought another bus with a worn out engine but this way I know what I have and the engine comes with a 100,000 mile warrrenty. First I want to really really thank Busted Knuckle for turning me on to these guys. Thanks so much. But now I have to tell you this thing will fly. Anyone that says a 6v92 is a turd havent driven a good one. I didnt want to run a new engine to hard but Ill tell you their wasnt a hill in Missouri or Oklahoma on interstate 44 that I couldnt accelerate up running 70+mph. The engine is bone stock except for 90lb injectors. They have an in house dyno. Of course he didnt dyno mine since it was an inframe he said comparable motors usually dyno 375. He said its all in the injectors and rack. They gurantee a 24 hour turn around, but he said if they could have it another day until noon they would spend lots of time tuning it and getting the rack just right. and wow I believe they nailed it.
Ill tell you anyone that needs more power than this just has more money than brains.
He did say the larger injectors are good for 30-50hp but he warned me dont run it to hard with those big injectors. I wont lie I had to try it out too see what she would do but 90% of the ride home I ran her aroung 65. I feel like 65 is the sweet spot on this motor. Itll run alot faster but I feel like its turning too many rpm at 70-80 mph. Yes I said 80 HaHa.
These guys have been in business for 40 years and have done over 5,000.00 of these. They must still be in business for a reason. No they dont do trucks just buses. Especially detroits.
He did warn me to never idle this motor for over five minutes. He said as soon as you start idling that old detroit the sleeves will glaze over than Ill have an oil burning machine that these detroits are famous for.
All in All I feel like I got a new bus and I wouldnt have done anything different.
You did good the 2 strokes are not a bad engines people kill the engines and I am happy for you about the bottom end you lose the mains it becomes big bucks and a major job, for 7 grand he must of used FM parts ? nothing wrong with those they have a better warranty than DD parts
good luck