I have the chance to purchase a very nice / upscale 4104 coach. By far the slickest bus conversions I've looked at. The price is way beyond fair. My hang up is the multiple posts I've read concerning the " lack of power " , " burn'n clutches " , " crawl'n up a steep grade " & etc about the 671 / 4 speed combo. I love the look and quality of this coach and the price is awesome. I had my heart set on a 35' unit and really dig the mci5 w/ auto conversion. BUT, everything I've looked at is JUNK or something really funky. I want an all around user friendly, easy to use anywhere bus. Point me in the right direction.
thanks
Bill in KS
Bill -
Remember Aesop's Fable about The Tortoise and The Hare?
The 4104 is the Tortoise.
Treat it as such, and it will give you years of dependable service with routine maintenance.
It will cruise happily all day long at 60 mph, passing all those monster fifth-wheels that blew by you earlier as their owners stop to refuel the duallys.
You'll smile to yourself as you feel the security of a coach rolling along safely while you watch the stick 'n staple Winnibuggies being buffeted by the 18-wheelers blowing past them.
Sure, it will climb 6% grades sitting on the governor in 2nd gear @ 30 mph, but so what? You get to enjoy the scenery that way!
With the clutch properly adjusted, it's just like driving a giant VW Microbus. Seriously - BTDTHTS!!
BUT -
You also have to learn how to do a Dead Throttle Start properly to get the most out of the clutch. Not hard to learn at all, 5 minutes of instruction and a little practice is all it takes.
Same with learning how to double-clutch each shift w/o grinding the gearbox - make it a challenge!
If you have to climb Rocky Top a lot, adding a turbocharger is quite easy on the venerable 6-71, and helps it to breathe easier at 6,000 ft.
OTOH, if you want a Hare, search for an MC5C with a 6V92TA / HT-740 powertrain in it. Over 100 more HP and an automatic for a simple "stab 'n steer" driving experience, vs actually having something to do as a 4104 operator.
Your choice!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Owning a 4104 is more like a love affair than just having a bus. If you don't love, really love, driving it, you might be better off with the MC-5.
If you get a little thrill every time you make a shift without even a tick, or you feel a little let down when you get to the campground because you are not driving anymore, then the 4104 is for you. I think it's kind of like a Harley thing. Any fool can aim a Prevost down the road, a 4104 needs a bus driver.
You will find very few places where there is a paved surface that you can't get to. It will climb any hill, however slowly, it will get you there and back home again. Off the road is a different story. If you get it bogged down in a campground or something, get help, don't even try it alone.
I loved mine. I traded for a fancy-schmancy MH and have regretted it ever since.
I LOVE my 4104..... ;D
It is the perfect size to get into most any parking lot that we have gigs at.
Sure there are things I'd like to improve on it, but those would be "luxury" items... A turbo would be nice...
All of the work done on it is being done by me. It is a simple mechanical design that I admire over all of the fancy electronic stuff.
I will very soon be replacing the injectors and running the rack for the first time. I'm excited, and feel like I did at age 12 tearing down my first V8 engine.
But I digress....
Did I mention that I LOVE my 4104....
.
I love old cars, pick-ups, and buses; but my love is only looking at them. Driving them takes the joy out of them because the technology is just too old. If you want something easy and totally enjoyable to drive and camp in, the RTS with it's automatic and power steering is hard to beat. If you want a 35'er look at Pete Pappas 35', 102" wide RTS that he has for sale.
--Geoff
'82 RTS
40', 102", 350HP, 4:10 gears
4104 is just plainly a rock solid old work horse. Granted you'll go up the hill at 25-35, but even the 4106 with 8V-71 will go about 10mph faster. If you want better performance, rebuild the 6-71 into a turbo engine-there's plenty of room for the turbocharger above the transmission and replace the transmission access door with an air to air intercooler. The 6-71 with N65 injectors gets 228hp (real horsepower) and 600lb/ft torque. Switch to turbocharge with 80 injectors and you'll get 300hp and 900lb/ft torque. The transmission is rated at 1200lb/ft torque. Or just keep it stock and go up the hill with the big rigs. I always liked the 4104, but the headroom is a bit lacking for me (6'3"). Good Luck, TomC
Go for it and add the turbo, like Tom suggests! The *-71 series engines are easy to keep up.
if it turns your mind into a bus nut go for it..all of us have a sickness and it sounds like you have a dose of 4104 fever...all coaches have their pluses and draw backs..if it is the size you want and can live with the minus ---jump in...Bus nut forever Bob
Don't overlook a 4106 with a 6v92 and a V730. It is a wonderful setup.
I've never driven a 4104, but have friends that love them. It's all about what you want.
How many times are you going to go hill climbing? Take RJ's advice, enjoy the ride up cause you'll make it to the other side.
If it's what you want, and the price is right, which it seems to be from what you've said, get it. If you want more power it will cost you more to run it.
Our 8v71 is slow on the hills, but it doesn't bother me. I've always made it to the top without overheating. Keep the rpm's up, watch the gauges and check out the scenery!
Paul
I second what Geoff said! My 40 footer is a breeze to drive!! This is Pete's bus http://community.webshots.com/user/hawk_ii (http://community.webshots.com/user/hawk_ii) and it is VERY nice!!!!
The RTS is just about the only 35ft'r that was available in a 102" wide configuration. With my 40ft AMGeneral transit, the 102" width plus the 6'10" headroom is what decided me. Granted it is a harder conversion, but I have room for just about everything I need. With the 35ft, you'd loose the 5ft of valuable under storage space (my under storage is 66" long x 22" high x 99" wide [83 cu/ft]).
One of the main reasons I making my Kenworth conversion is being able to carry the car inside-rather then towing it-which is a big pain. Plus, lots more storage, and much higher off the ground. Good Luck, TomC
Go for the 4104. We had ours for 16+ years and 150,000 miles.
A wonderful bus; not lots of power, but very simple and reliable. That little 671 just keeps running, just like a Timex. After about 3 hours running and when all the oils get warmed-up (engine, trans, rear end, wheel bearings, etc.) she just wants to run and run. Good old bus. Go for it!
Quote from: Len Silva on August 02, 2010, 05:56:37 AM
If you get a little thrill every time you make a shift without even a tick, or you feel a little let down when you get to the campground because you are not driving anymore, then the 4104 is for you. I think it's kind of like a Harley thing. Any fool can aim a Prevost down the road, a 4104 needs a bus driver.
I loved mine. I traded for a fancy-schmancy MH and have regretted it ever since.
I take exception to that statement Len! I happen to know a lot of people that can't or won't drive anything longer than a sedan ::)
LOL It's all good, Will