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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Dave5Cs on July 25, 2010, 10:12:31 AM

Title: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: Dave5Cs on July 25, 2010, 10:12:31 AM
So we have replaced the kitchen, Bath, made and installed cabinets for the bedroom, Sent the couch out for re-doing the fabric. Installed the Air horns, Made beds for the cats that hang from the ceiling (the beds not the cats). Installed air ride seats, Checked for air leaks of all kinds Gas,fuel,air. Checked brakes.Still have to change filters and oil.She hasn't been out in 5 months, so this morning we started her up and let her rise.
Re-did a lot of the electric and plumbing. etc.

We drove her around with a litter smoke which would clear after letting off the peddle. It would come back a little when pushed down to take off. Brakes worked great. Motor ran smooth, Transmission shifted great.

We were laughing like a couple of kids. Drove by friends house at 7 AM and honked the air horns and watched as they came out waving and laughing. It came up to temperature 190 nicely and stayed there.A great time was had by all. Sometime in or around November or October we will leave our house and go full time so want to be ready. So far so good.
Dave
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: PP on July 25, 2010, 05:05:24 PM
Congrats and excited for ya!  ;D That feeling of exhileration never goes away, even when you live it every day. Good luck, Will
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: Dave5Cs on July 26, 2010, 07:04:17 AM
There is one thing wed like t fix. The front end feels every bump in the road hard. Could this be the shocks need replacing and if so whats a good pair cost for the front of an MC5Cs. Lucky we have air ride seats because we had to adjust those to soft t take the jolts.
Any one got an idea on this.
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: bevans6 on July 26, 2010, 07:46:34 AM
I put new shocks on the front of my 5C.  After talking to Luke at US Coach, I went with his standard shocks, I forget how much they were but they were not expensive at all.  $40 each sticks in my mind.  But - they were not the problem!  The shocks I took off were fine.  Nor were the airbags over inflated (ride height checked out, nor were the bushings in the front suspension (but check both things).  The problem was over-inflated front tires.  I run mine at 85 psi now, based on load inflation table for my tires (which happen to be Firestone FS-560 Plus 12R-22.5 load range H) and the ride and handling improved a lot.  I will say that part of that may just be getting used to the ride, familiarity over time.

Brian
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: Dave5Cs on July 26, 2010, 07:56:26 AM
Thanks for the info.  have been running them at 100lbs as suggested in Manuals but will try 85 r 90 and see if it improves. The wife said her back is killing her this morning just from driving around town. I called Mohawk and they have 12B-5-1 for 48.00 each in sock but thought I would call Luke too to see what he had. But sounds like he already gave us the answer.
Dave
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on July 26, 2010, 08:18:29 AM
Sure seems like a lot of the roads could use some repaving too. :)
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on July 26, 2010, 08:20:30 AM
So Dave, do you have any plans on where you are going yet?
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: bevans6 on July 26, 2010, 08:56:37 AM
Before you go for too low a pressure, I suggest doing the normal homework like finding a load table for your tires, double checking the load range (some 12R-22.5's might be load range G, for example, and have a different load table that what I used) and the most obvious - weigh the axles of your bus!

Brian
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: Dave5Cs on July 26, 2010, 08:40:28 PM
Ed , No we know we will stay in California for awhile being I am a Contractor here and maybe work will come back someday LOL. The wife still has work and needs to stay here also to do it because of state licenses etc.
But down the road we will travel around RVing so to speak.
Dave
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: Dave5Cs on July 26, 2010, 08:48:47 PM
Brian,

The PO has new Mich's 12Rx 22.5 H on front with 85 lbs in each. The rear are Goodyear G149 H 12.Rx 22.5 but are 8 years old and have started cracking sidewalls so will Replace those when can afford the new outsides. Have new ones already for the insides but don't want to put them on until we have all 4 ready.

Weighing the axle? Ok I can do a lot of mechanical things and have but What or how do you do that. I am still trying to get all the things together to get off my back wheels to cut out a metal 3 inch block the last owner put in when he cut only one wheel well out and then never finished the job?
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: bevans6 on July 27, 2010, 04:58:24 AM
I guess weighing the bus and getting the front and rear axle weights can be done in a number of ways.  I go down to my waste transfer station, you pay for dumping trash by weight here, so the commercial side can weigh up to full semi-trailers.  They charge $5 if they give you a weight ticket, if they just tell you your weight it's free.  I weigh the whole bus, then pull forward and weigh just the rear axle, the difference is the front axle.  You can get a pretty good weigh job at a truck stop that has a CAT scale, they are usually set up to weigh individual axles for the truckers.  If your region has roadside commercial weigh scales for the DOT, sometimes you can go in when the scale is not active and they leave the machine on, you can weigh that way.  Nothing that you can really do at home, though.  I think in your case I would feel very easy about running the 85 psi that your previous owner ran.  My PO ran 110 PSI, the thing rode horribly.

Brian
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: Dave5Cs on July 27, 2010, 08:06:04 AM
Thanks Brian,

I did notice even though the PO put on H rated tires, when I found the Manufacturer's plate. It says

GVWR 14.290kg
  WITH 12.5x22.5 G TIRES , 8.25x22.5 RIMS
AT 690 kPa COLD SINGLE, 585 kPa COLD DUAL

  WITH 11.5x20 G TIRES, 8.00x20 RIMS
AT 690kPa COLD SINGLE, 585 kPA COLD DUAL

14,190kg     
  WITH 12.00x22.5 G TIRES , 8.25x22.5 RIMS
AT 690 kPa COLD SINGLE, 585 kPa COLD DUAL

  WITH 11.00x20 G TIRES, 8.00x20 RIMS
AT 690kPa COLD SINGLE, 585 kPA COLD DUAL       


Front
GAWR 6,051kg with 12.75x22.5 G tires 8.25x22.5 rims
At 655KPa COLD SINGLE

          5.570kg  WITH 12.00x22.5 G TIRES 8.25x22.5 rims
AT 690 KPa COLD SINGLE

REAR
9,070kp   WITH 12.00x22.5 G TIRES 8.00x20 RIMS
AT 585 kPa COLD DUAL

Now it looks like originally it had G not H rated tires would that matter on the ride feel?
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: bevans6 on July 27, 2010, 08:22:40 AM
I have a very similar plaque on my bus, only in lbs and kg. It's more relevant to 1970's tire tech than todays.  It's also for a vehicle running at max GVW, and my bus weighs about 6,000 lbs less than that.  Note that your 12R 22.5's aren't even listed...  That's why the recommendation is to adjust the pressures to suit the tires you now have, and the load you are actually carrying.

I would think that if the bus was fully loaded, and the load distributed ideally, the weight on the front axle would be a lot higher than what you actually have.  That weight would calm down the ride and make it a lot more comfortable.  You really can't adjust the spring rates of the suspension much, but you can lower the air pressure of the tires and that does make a difference.

Here is the load table that I use, for Firestone tires.  It's probably fairly close to what your Michelin's would require, within a few percent anyway, for the same tire size and load range.  http://www.trucktires.com/firestone/us_eng/load/load_pdf/F_loadTables.pdf (http://www.trucktires.com/firestone/us_eng/load/load_pdf/F_loadTables.pdf)

Brian
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: Dave5Cs on July 27, 2010, 08:30:57 AM
Thanks for he help Brian. Will check it out and see what Happens. Dave
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: bevans6 on July 27, 2010, 10:42:21 AM
Dave, another thing just occurred to me, I apologize I didn't think of this earlier, probably because my 5C still has the original air beams and stock (although brand new) air springs.  If you bus has had the air beams blocked off, the ride will be harsher particularly if the original dual convoluted air bags are still in place.  You can tell if there is a plate between the top of the spring and the mount, I think.  Some conversions use rolling lobe air bags as replacements when blocking off the air beams, as they ride much softer that dual convoluted air springs when the additional volume of the beam is taken away.

Brian
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: Dave5Cs on July 27, 2010, 08:53:21 PM
 Brian,

Nope still have the air beams and double convoluted air bags fairly new ones also. They are not plated. I did notice the fronts were st at 40lbs and Today I changed that and pumped them u to 60lbs to even out the Bus. The front I noticed was lower by almost 5 inches so now it is at lease even front to back. Front tires are now at 85 which they were before and backs are at 95. I will take it out sometime this week to see if it has changed the front ride. According to the tire load chart they should be at 80 to 85 lbs. I did say the front tires were Mich's but they are actually Bridgestones new ( My Bad Sorry).

Dave
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: bevans6 on July 28, 2010, 04:45:34 AM
I use the stock levelling arrangement, and the front springs are tied together side to side, so I have no idea how much actual pressure is in there.  What i would do in your case is set the height once using the factory measurements, which are based on height above the bump stops on the axle, check the chassis height on the outside somewhere easy to measure, and use that.  Somewhere between 40 PSI and 60 PSI jives with what I have heard from people who have disconnected the stock levelling system.  If your ride height was too low you could have been getting into the bump stops, which would make for a tough ride.

Brian
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: PP on July 29, 2010, 06:51:43 PM
If the front was riding 5 inches lower than the rear, Brian might be right and you might have been hitting the bump stops which can jar a person right out of their seat. Good luck, Will
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: Dave5Cs on July 30, 2010, 05:19:55 PM
Brian/ Will

Yep I think it was hitting the bump stops. I Pulled the dash panel out this morning because after pumping up the front to level the coach to book specs at 60 lbs with the ride rites. Found that over night the coach was leaning to the left side and aired down again. I heard a leak when I pump it back up with air compressor. I found that 2 of the valves wee leaking when I sprayed them with soap. I looked at the PO's configuration of rats nest ir lines and they had the fronts hooked to a tee in the front bay and then the backs were hook to incoming air but the down lines were not hooked to the air beams. They just go to the back and are ready but were never hooked up? There were 3 tee's in the dash with hoses all going to the 2 front valves. So for now I took out all the tee's except for 1 on the incoming air and ran that to the 2 valves on the dash ride rite plus the other 2 gauges I just disconnected for now because they really were never hoked to anything anyway,(Some people Kids eh????) With no leaks now and 60 lbs in front and back and 85 lbs in the tires it rides much smoother like it should.

Now all I have to do is water the 6V71 and in a week it should turn into a 8V-92 TA right, LOL
Thanks for all the help guys,

Dave
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: PP on July 31, 2010, 10:18:31 AM
Dave, FWIW, Detroits don't like water! Feed them oil, lots and lots of oil and they grow to be big and strong.  ;D Of course, not just any oil, but oil containing the right supplements (CF-2)  ;D
Glad to hear the ride has improved, Will
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: BG6 on July 31, 2010, 06:07:11 PM
Quote from: Dave5Cs on July 26, 2010, 07:56:26 AM
Thanks for the info.  have been running them at 100lbs as suggested in Manuals but will try 85 r 90 and see if it improves.

DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT change your tire pressures until you AXLE-weigh the coach.  Once you know what is on each axle, then you can work the charts to find the right pressure for the make and model of tire you have (email the company's support line for a copy of the load-pressure chart). 

Just dumping a few pounds of pressure is a really quick way to tire failure on the road, and we can pretty much figure that no matter how rock-hard the tire is, it's still softer than the rim will be.
Title: Re: Our Maiden Voyage
Post by: Dave5Cs on July 31, 2010, 10:09:44 PM
BG6,

Thanks for the advice , but until we get the coach finished and get the new tires for the back we only drive around the block(3-5 miles) locally testing it out. I have already downloaded the Load charts from tires website and when I get the other 2 tires I will have my tire guy weigh the axles and then decide what we should run in them. I didn't change them they wee at 80 - 85 when I bought it. PO says that was what he ran in them for years also.
Thanks again,
Dave