Guys, I will be soon taking delivery of Scenic 227. I am doing a simple conversion on it. I am wondering about waste water tanks. I have access to some 50 ish gallon plastic drums. They formerly held a cleaning soap for cleaning cars. They are designed to be stored upright. I would like to secure them on their sides, and use them for waste water tanks.
My concerns about this are: will the tanks be strong enough structurally to store on their sides? will the lack of baffling be a problem? how do I install a drain in the tanks? maybe the minimal cost of standard tanks is worth the insurance? Thanks!
Boyce
Congrats on getting a Scenicruiser! where are you and where did you get it? There are several good articles on building your own tanks. I just bought my second 50 gal waste tank from tank depot. If you can keep it under 50-55 gals they ship ups but you have to look thru their selection and make sure. If it goes truck cost goes way up! After glassing in my wheel wells i decieded i did not want to make my own tanks! Mine was $315. with shipping. 219 for tank, 30. for 4 female thread fittings (2 three inch, 1 inch and a half and 1 one inch) 42 for shipping and 25 for tax. They have a decent selection on sizes and types. You can save alot doing your own! I picked mine for size in the bay.Good luck with your bus cant wait to see pictures.
I'm in Columbia, SC. The Scenic is the one that Kyle and Tom had for sale in Georgia. There's a video of it on youtube running. It needs a lot of work, but I think I can get it all figured out in short order!
I read an article about making your own tanks. I'm not too crazy about fiberglass work either! I will probably either make use of these free tanks, or maybe some salvage RV tanks. I don't think I will need much capacity as we are not full timers.
I looked into tank depot, they have some interesting stuff there. I could use the uniseal fittings with my tanks. Might just work! Thanks!
Boyce
When in Florida this past winter i did find some rv tanks in and under some wrecks. trust me you dont want to go there!!! They rarely are empty! Good luck with the bus hope to see it in Arcadia new years.
given the potential downside of a leak, tanks are one place I would do it right, best practice possible, install and forget. I've been just about to go out and start working on a problem I have to fix with my waste tank for, oh, two months now... Not a job I look forward to. Install and forget is my motto!
Brian
Any barrel strong enough to ship a liquid in will be way stronger than you will ever have to worry about.
If they are what I'm thinking, they should have a regular size bung and a smaller one for venting. The barrel is one piece, top molded with the rest of the container. If they are like that, the thickness of the plastic is pretty stout. You should have no problem. I'm not sure of the size of the bung, but you might fit it for your dishcharge. dunno ::)
The only problem with barrels is wasted space. If a typical 55 gallon drum (24" x 35") was a rectangular tank of the same dimensions, it would be 87 gallons. That's 58% if my math is right.
That's 58% if my math is right.
Classic!
Thanks,
John
Congrats and welcome to the madness.
I have seen a couple Buses over the years that had used plastic drums for tanks. Round into square bays definitely is a space waster. Recommend laying out your bay before you decide. Also size your tank for extra so you don't have to dump during a week stay at a campground without sewer at the site(and them some). You'll have to move the bus or get one of those little blue tanks on wheels.
With the bus, opportunities and Ideas of things to do that you haven't thought of yet will come around, you want to plan accordingly.
Plan for use and then add another 25% or so. you don't want it to fill or run over :P
Not a job you will ever want to redo if you can help it.
So you may have one for black and 2 for gray water. Three barrels take up a lot of space compared to one or 2 rectangular tanks.
Don't forget about vents too. :)
use the tanks(barrels)you have..we mostly (95%) are hooked up in camp grounds with full hook ups and don't need the capacity for the once a year time we have a little blue cart..the curves are a good place to store long things:sewer hoses ,washing brush on a pole,and any thing else you can think of..there is no right or wrong design (except safety concerns) with buses that's what makes this a neat hobby..ask ? and learn from others mistakes. I used what I have or can get a bargin on..I found new tanks on for $1 a gallon in Elkhart..
Thanks for all the replies guys. They are made of very thick plastic, and do have two openings as mentioned. I may just give them a try. I'll grab them up, and have them ready, and if I change my mind, they'll make great trash cans for the shop with the tops cut off. Thanks again!
Boyce
I have some of those blue plastic drums as well, considered using a couple of them plumbed together for greywater tanks. At the time I bought them, the supplier also had some white food grade 60 gallon drums that were originally used for Coca Cola syrup. I bought and used one of those as my spring water sump for my house.
Bob
While they are stainless steel, Ace has round tanks on his bus and so far it has not imploded, exploded or gotten arrested for writing bad checks. :)
As long as it is not a serious safety issue......why not. We will never learn if we don't try odd or unusual things. If it doesn't work then back to the drawing board. If it does...... then you did it your way and as long as you are happy case closed.
Just be aware when you try the untested that you must be more diligent in your inspection/safety/awareness than when using tried and true methods.
Who knows you might start a trend or at least become infamous.
Frank
I've seen photos of other buses using 55 gallon drums for tanks. It isn't like this is untested. The biggest isssue I see is loss of space, but like someone said, you can place cargo around the tanks.
Quote from: Len Silva on July 03, 2010, 02:35:02 PM
The only problem with barrels is wasted space. If a typical 55 gallon drum (24" x 35") was a rectangular tank of the same dimensions, it would be 87 gallons. That's 58% if my math is right.
They offer some advantages, though in using drums on their sides. If two of them are together, you have room between them for a PVC pipe to hold your dump hose. If you get barrels with removable tops, you can easily put in BIG fittings, they will empty completely (if you tilt up the back end) and -- most important -- you can save hundreds of dollars buying used food-haul plastic barrels.
On the other hand, rectangular tanks are easier to install and secure.
As mentioned, it is only wasted space if you don't use it. With a little planning, you could probably run some pipes and wires in the missing corners and avoid them being in the way somewhere else.
My earlier hesitancy was because the drums that I've seen had removable tops, but these ones being one piece would be a ton better than a drum that the top might come off of...
One thing about round tanks laid on their sides - the bottom is always the bottom even if you are on a little bit of a hill when you dump. I always end up with a few gallons that won't come out due to the tilt of the bus.
Brian
Quote from: bevans6 on July 04, 2010, 03:26:01 PM
My earlier hesitancy was because the drums that I've seen had removable tops,
Any container approved for shipping must be tested. A drum, intended to ship liquids internationally without being in an outer container, is filled then drop-tested. If the top were to come off, it would fail the test.
All of the food-grade screw-top drums over 20 gallons that I've ever seen were certified for international shipping. The addition of a small set-screw through the lid into the drum threads would pretty much eliminate the risk of losing seal due to lid motion.
I have done exactly what you propose....I used 2 carwash plastic barrels for my 'first' installation of black/grey tanks.
It worked, and worked reasonably well. The toilet dumped into one, and everything else dumped into the other, and could overflow into the black tank, if needed.They both vented through the joined overflow and through the bus roof.
The black tank was first in line to empty; when done, I opened the grey tank, and it would wash out the hose, then closed both tanks.
There was a lot of wasted space, and there were a lot of fittings and urethane adhesive (aka Sikaflex) used to make sure the fittings dont leak where they mate to the barrels.(and believe me, you dont want these fittings to leak)
This version lasted 2 years; I then purchased one 100 gallon tank (identical to the fresh water tank) for a combination tank, and replaced the barrels.
Only 2 fittings to worry about (below waterlevel), and much better use of space.
In retrospect, I should have put the $$$ from all the fittings I required on the barrels into the purchase of the single poly tank, and be done with it once and for all.
But....YMMV.
Best regards.
Mark
Where did you get your tank, and what did you pay for it?
BTW, the best thing I've ever found to seal fittings in these is Shoo Goo.
However, my suggestion to anyone planning to use barrels is to get the ones with tops which screw on or -- better -- are secured by Zeppo clamps, then lay the barrels down on their sides next to each other. You do your plumbing through a flat plate and can work on both sides of it, using standard gaskets which are supported by the fittings.
Figuring $25 each for two barrels (I see them for $10 on Craigslist), plus 2" greywater fittings between them gives me a guesstimate of about $75. I am not counting fittings which would be necessary on any tank setup, such as the dump valves and hose connector, but just those which two barrels would need.
The only problem with most screw-lid barrels is that they have a shoulder, leaving you with a couple of inches of undrainable depth. This isn't a major problem if you add a rinse nozzle to spray clean water into each tank. One guy I know who uses these threw in a couple of round stones about 3" in diameter, which roll around when he's driving and breaks up solids and sediment to make them rinse out better. Once a year, before he hits the road again, he throws in another stone.