BCM Community

I know nothing about them other than When thy blow cold air they are out of sight and out of mind.  When they don't blow cold it irritates me, severely.

On the way home from the hill country we got hot.  I have three Ac units and they should be able to keep up.  When I first bought the bus they would get so cold it would run you out of there.  Now they need attention.  The middle air is dripping water inside so we turned it off.  I don't think the other 2 are stoking as good as they should but they certainly could nit keep up with the heat we had today.

Does anyone have a recomendation for a good roof Ac repair guy in the Houston area.  I am only guessing but I figure the big chain Rv places like HD world will hammer the pocket book.  Luvrbus I hope you have an in for someone around here.

Hi, if your middle unit is dripping inside then it sounds like the drain may be plugged, not allowing the water to run out it's regular drain.  Sometimes you can simply remove the covers and use a hose to wash them out, like the condenser and unplug the drains, possible dirt/dust build up, washing only the condensor, electrical doesn't like water;)  When this happens, the evaporator can't dispate humidity and therefore freezes, cooling will stop until the evaporator unthaws and then the cycle starts again, so cooling is very much limited.

The condensor which dispates the heat is mounted on the roof, the evaporator will be lower cycling the air from the inside of your coach through and blowing out cold air, which the hot is dispated out the condensor.  Using mild compressed air you can blow through the condensor fins to remove debris.

Hope this helps to stay cool:)

Alright!!!!  I am going to ge up there and check it out.  In the meantime if anyone has a place for me to take post it up if you please.

Wayne,when I had roof airs on my Prevost I had the best luck and prices at a place in Channelview it is called Channelview Supply on I 10 at the Dell Dale exit east of Dell Dale on the feeder about 1/4 of a mile.
I would think PPL on the south side of Houston would be best for you it is also a good outfit prices are a little higher than Channelview. 


good luck

Thank you Luvrbus.  I work right down the road from PPL.  I will take it there in the morning.  I looked at the drain hole on top from a ladder.  I could see through it.

You need to find out why there is water dripping inside.  The condenser uses that water to help the efficiency and it can make a big difference in the AC performance.

Take this to the bank.....remove the inside shroud and run on high cool.  That's like getting a half AC unit for free.

Your ac unit should drop the temp of the sir that goes thru it by so many degree.  In a hot soak it drops the temp the same as when it is running on a cool coach.  Measure that drop and consult with the MFR rep. That is the only way to be sure the unit is doing it's job and just isn't overloaded with heat.

Some people can get by with one unit when parked but they barely make it with three running full tilt if they are doing 60 mph down the road.  That tells me two things....their insulation is pretty good and they have a ton of air leaks that only come to bear with  air pressure differentials causing flow and allowing heat to permeate.

Wash the outside condenser fins with a strong garden hose and some spray detergent in a bottle.  That water should run off the roof and present no problem.  Drop the shroud and spray some detergent on the fins with a garden sprayer.  Then rinse the soapy stuff  off with the same garden sprayer.  The water running off of the evaporator coils should be ducted outside exactly as if it were condensate.  When you are done with that you will have either fixed your problem or eliminated dirty fins as the source of your grief.....er, heat.

I have read of Knuts with MCI's that had over heating problems with the engine.  They solved the problems by using a ca washsoap sprayer to wash the "mud" out of the rad.  $5 fix for a really nasty problem that may solve with thousands thrown at a rad replacement.  MCI isn't the only rad that sucks air through it and gets dirty s why isn't this a "annual PM".

John full of questions.

John I do believe you are hitting the nail with the hammer.  I dont have trouble cooling  while parked somewhere with the front and the rear ac running.  We have just been leaving the middle one off.  As we go down the road the (what I believe) lack of insulation allows the heat to creep.

This is a problem as it is just now getting hot enough to make a difference.  Later if left unchecked (the insulation issueor not cooling) I won't be able to drive the bus.  It would be too hot.  Since I did not do the conversion there is really no way to know what they used for wall insulation unless I peel back a wall.  I do know the sub floor is plywood and the top floor is hardwood.  Stapled to the plywood underneath is bubble wrap. 

I can start right there and put 10 inch foil backed styrofoam board attached to the plywood in the top of the bays.  Get my fins cleaned in all ac units and find the leak in the middle unit.

I did put a thermometor in each unit and the air temp coming out of each was 55 to 60 degrees.  Outside temp was around 90.

Update.  Dropped it off at ppl.  Sometimes you just got to call in some help.  I got enough going on.  They suspect as yall did.  Either the drain is plugged or the seal twix the ac and the bus is broken.  We shall see.

Latest update!!  PPL called and the seal twix the ac unit and the roof was bad as well as the thermostat.  With that one kicking on all cylinders and the other 2 we should be back to cool again.  $300 bones aint too bad for parts and labor.

Wal,

This was my main point.  By observing that when stopped you seem to have enuf AC tonnage you sorta prove that your insulation is at least barely adequate.  That means you don't have to start over with the conversion.  May not be as good as you want, or even as it should be, but it is enuf.

Some people can get by with one unit when parked but they barely make it with three running full tilt if they are doing 60 mph down the road.  That tells me two things....their insulation is pretty good and they have a ton of air leaks that only come to bear with  air pressure differentials causing flow and allowing heat to permeate.  Cause if you don't have any air GOING THRU a hole, that hole doesn't matter much.

About that AC tonnage and the air temp coming out of the unit.  Of course it would seem to be the very most significant data is that while at 90 degrees ambient you had 60 degree air coming out of the unit  That's interesting in many ways but it ain't the key point.  It might be 90 outside but what you want to know is "what is the temp change" ACROSS the system.  Temp into the evap coils vs the temp coming out.  That would be the temp inside the bus vs the temp coming out of the ac unit.  But only to eval the operation of THAT UNIT.  The first step was to determin if the ac units were doing as good a job as they could. You seem to have done that by determining that ALL had 60 degree air coming out.  Me thinks a delta of 10 degrees between them if they are all injesting the same temp air is an indication of serous degradation in performance of the one that can't pull the temp down.  I am  ignoring the chance that you have a 12,000 btu unit and a 18,000 unit side by side.

Think of this as a water flow and tank filing with water.  BTU's are how fast you can bail water out of a tank and the tank is your bus.  The heat flows into your bus thru the walls and windows and that will be so many BTU's under a certain circumstance.....say high noon in Aug, you are in the sun and the ambient is 100 degrees.  Gallons per hour of heat.  If the tank starts to fill, well, then, the volume of water stored is going up, and in this analogy, the temp in the bus is going up.  To hold the water level steady you need the two numbers to be equal...to cool the place you need to bail FASTER than the water is coming in.  To cool the place in a short enuf time to be able to use the bus the same day that you return home you need to be able to bail FASTER than the water is coming in.   If you get home after a long day of heat soak in the Az  sun at 120 ambient and the thing was NOT in the shade you are looking at 150 (at least) inside temp.  To get that down to 75 you will need some pretty hefty over kill on AC power if you want to do that in less than a couple of days.

Now so far in this tombe there aren't any numbers.  That means that at this point, Sean has puked three time if he kept reading at all and Nick's stomach is hurting from laughing.  But here is the real bottom line.  When you are done can you get the temp down to 75 in the sun with a ambient of 120?  If not then you can't visit Palm Springs or AZ in the summer or even drive thru in the day light under those conditions. Crunch all the numbers and figure till the cows come home but that is the bottom line.  You can use numbers if you have the lux of building and controlling the construction and then sizing the AC units but it still boils down to.....  White roof helps all the time, shades only when parked and "holes" only when in motion(mostly) and R factor rules.  You install the BTU tonnage that works for everybody else and you seem to have done that.... three units at 18.000 BTU each.  Three of the 13,500 units should work as well as it did before they came up with the bigger units.

Bubble wrap is scary.  What other brilliance remains hidden?  Spray foam the underside of the floor.  Does your wall that is facingthe sun feel warm to the touch all over or in spots?  The ceiling?  If you take one of those no touch temp guns and start shooting EVERTHING and EVERYWHERE while you are parked or running down the road....where are the hot/cold spots and by how much?  Those marker lights don't only leak water, they leak air, so R&R and use that sticky putty that the RV industry invented for every outside appendige.  Handi can spray foam all the cavities you can get to.

Every Pre and Hi Line has a couple of those str4ong 8 inch fans blowing on the driver.  Driving into the sun the driver needs the drivers air plus 70 degree ambient to tolerate the sun loading he is enjoying.  Only the 70 degree ambient(inside) would be enuff if he had enuf air flow across hisself at that temp.  I have heard many Knuts say that they installed a additional roof air over the driver or wished they had put the split where it would blow directly on the driver.  They are shooting for really cold air in one spot but they could very well be OK if they got a lot of cool air moving.  BIG fan!  Even in the winter, the driver may develop a need for cooling after he turns into the sun.

I read the following as a cry for HELP:

Later if left unchecked (the insulation issue or not cooling) I won't be able to drive the bus.  It would be too hot.


I read the following as needing more clarification as it is the WRONG conclusion.
As we go down the road the (what I believe) lack of insulation allows the heat to creep.

I really hope that you can get this under control.  As well, I hope I made a plus contrib.

Hope you keep us informed with your progress and findings.

John

"I did put a thermometor in each unit and the air temp coming out of each was 55 to 60 degrees.  Outside temp was around 90."

The delta temperature, in and  out, of the AC unit should be in the range of 17 to 21 degrees. Not outside to AC exhaust delta.

Good data but I can't find the source document. But then again, I remembered the data. ;D

Bill

Clean your aircons.

Check and see if they are in the airflow -- if they are all mounted on the centerline, the two in back may be masked by the turbulence created by the one in the front.  Do you have anything else on the roof, like satellite dishes, which might be spoiling the airflow?

Check freon levels.

Replace belts (if any).

Check fan speeds -- you could have a cold unit with a slow-running fan.

Wayne's problem may also be that in Houston it has been over 90 degrees and the humidity is around 95% that will give any AC a workout trying to get rid of the moisture and cool


good luck

Hello Fellas.  Just picked her up.  PPL did a great job.  $204 and some change.  They replaced the seal and put a new thermostat on.  Worked fantastic.  Luvrbus thank you for sending me there.  I usually shy from large chains but I can't complain about the service at all.

Quote from: JohnEd on May 23, 2010, 10:21:41 PM
...  The condenser uses that water to help the efficiency and it can make a big difference in the AC performance.
...

AFAIK, the only manufacturer ever to make use of evaporator condensate to improve condenser efficiency was Carrier, now out of the RV business altogether.  Neither Dometic nor Coleman-Mach do this, to the best of my knowledge.  Certainly the neither Penguins I have now nor the Colemans I had on my Fleetwood used the condensate for anything -- they just dumped it overboard through a weephole.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)

Sean,
I thought it was common practice and I think it is a shame that it isn't. I had window airs that were designed that way back in the day.  In Palm Springs there is an outfit that sells a "AC PowerBooster" device that is no more than a mister for your compressor condenser coils.  I have been told that it makes the AC unit work noticeably better.  Problem is that that Colorado River water clogs up the spray heads in short order.  BUT IT WORKS.


Guess I will have to stop telling that lie.  Thanks Sean.  Can you tell me how much better that feature would make the AC work?  Worth bending a little sheet metal for?


john humbled again :'(

I do intend to plug some holes.  Under the driver side window is a covered or upholstered board.  On the other side of it is a large electric panel.  Seems to be the heart of the bus electronics.  It is open on one end kind of back and to the left of the driver seat.  I can guaranty it is escaping some cold air in the bus.  Because of this discussion I started going over areas where I knew of that were open to the outside.  I remember this is one because a lot of the wiring comes into the bus through this 8 x 16 inch hole.  While driving down the road I stuck my left hand in front of it and could feel a rush of cold air.  So be it cold I would imagine the opening or beyond is creating a vaccum and drawing out the inside air.  NOt a little but a lot.  This will be fixed.  It and anyothers I can find.  It is hot during the day here right now.  July and August are nothing short of freakin brutal here.  So with pluggin the holes and the 1 inch foam board attached to the bay roofs under the floor I should be able to gain quite a bit.

Quote from: JohnEd on May 24, 2010, 10:04:45 PM
...  Can you tell me how much better that feature would make the AC work?  Worth bending a little sheet metal for?
...

Sorry, I can't tell you.  HVAC is not my strong suit, and my feeble brain cells are only managing to hang on to the barest minimum of the thermodynamics I studied in college -- don't ask me to explain "adiabatic process" either.

I will tell you, though, that it involves more than bending sheet metal.  On roof airs, the evaporator coil is lower than the condenser coil, so you actually need to pump the condensate up before you can spray it on the condenser.  This is likely the real reason why Dometic and Coleman-Mach don't bother.  As we discussed in another thread, RV air conditioners in general are not particularly efficient, because neither regulation nor competition forces them to be.  I think Carrier was hoping to compete on the efficiency front, but as you see, they could not hold on (although their market timing could hardly have been worse, either).

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)

Sean,

HVAC is not my strong suit

You don't have a short suit. :-* ::)

my feeble brain cells are only managing to hang on to the barest minimum

Some of us that have just reason to be humble are really damaged by your humility. ??? ;D

John

The ones I had had a "slinger" on the fan to lift/throw the water at the condenser coils.  It must have worked as the things rarely put out any water.  Being condensate and pretty much distilled water, the coils never showed any sign of oxide or salts.  Shame to give up that free boost.  :( :'(

Remember my OLD Winnie?  I cut the AC run profile from "high and short cycle" to low and 50/50 cycle for 5 min.  Almost eliminated noise and made the place really comfy.  Did the same for the propane furnace in winter.  The "upgrade"?  I put that shrink film over every window.  Cost me next to nothing.  The windows not only allow sunlight radiation heat loading but they leak air badly. Despite their being seized up and inoperable for ventilation they leaked air and that aluminum frame was a really BAD heatsync loss.  I put a strip of weather proofing on the wall around the window so the film wouldn't touch the metal and taped to the wooden paneling.  Otherwise I had water running down the wall off of the points where the film touched the metal.  Not a noticeable loss of"cold" in the AC mode but it had to be a drain of thesame magnitude.  When parked for extended I even put it over the windshield using that"channel stuff" that Frost King makes for the nonshrink stuff.  I eventually had the shrink on all the windows that didn't open and left it year round and had the removable stuff on the rest.  The shrink on the windshield was so clear that I have driven with the stuff on there in winters past.  Absolutely no water running down the dash and rusting the framework after that fix.  crawled all around and under the interior of that old girl gluing foam board and shooting foam and using putty where needed but I am certain that what I did to the windows made more of a difference than all the other stuff combined.  If I ever had a gift for Y'all....this piece of info is it.

John

Thank you for the gift!!!! what is shrink film?

It's this film that shrinks.... ;) I couldn't help myself!!

Don't worry John, I know what you are talking about ;)( I knew it wasn't a film about midgets) ;D ;D

go to your local home improvement center and visit the weather  stripping dept.  Its about half way down on the left....about eye level.  No No....you went to far!!!Ask the nice man to show you his stock of "FROST KING products. 

Some of this stuff has a role of tape that is double sided sticky after you peal the covering.  Put a run of that around the window and peal the covering tape off to expose the sticky surface.  Press a piece of film over the window and make contact with the tape.  Be neat but don't worry about wrinkles.  Cut the excess from around the window up close and neat next to the tape.  Press it all around to make sure it is securely stuck.  Then take your wife's hair dryer and warm a section of the film.....magic, it shrinks to drum tightness and is crystal clear.   Heat it all over and especially the wrinkles......all done.  Move to next window and repeat.  Presto storm window that is air tight and, did I mention, crystal clear.  Cleans like a window using Windex.

There is another product that uses thicker soft plastic sheeting.  It is clamped in a clever rail system that you stick up around the window perimeter.  More washable on both sides.  Not as clear/transparent but a great product.

FROST KING for the internet works too.

Hard to believe that you don't know about this.  Summer and winter works like double pane glass.

John

I couldn't help myself!!
Scott,

Work harder on that.   Reeeely apply yourself.  I now you can do it. Now, bare down sharply. ten smiley faces....I know the feeling. :-* ;) ;D ;D :)

No sir I never heard of it.  Thank you for telling me what it is though.  I'll have to check it out.  Right now I can't see this product as looking like it fits when you stick it on and shrink it with a hair dryer.  I do believe I would like to see it installed before I bought it.

It's not expensive and removable if you don't like it :)

I read their website and they did not mention if it could go over the existing window tint.  If it works as claims I would like to put it ove rthe front windshield.  Although fixing the middle AC worked so far as cooling I still roast a little when the sun is beaming into the front.  Kind of like a greenhouse effect.  I might have to run over to home de and try some of this out.  This isn't like the muffler bearing trick on the new dude is it?

I have a 20 inch ceiling fan mounted above driver..its small enough you don't hit it when you walk up the center isle..also mirror window tint down to the visor area helps with front sun..fwiw

That is on the right track. How about the drivers side window?  In the winter I had a fibre  glass block that I put in the vent and CW makes a pad cover that you affix with snaps that are in the kit. That is thought of as "winter" insulating stuff, and that is all I use mine for, but if the us gets too hot to use I am sure it would get put up for heat insulation.  You will want it for winter use anyway as the vent "rains".  I think mine was $25 in the day but may be cheaper since China arrived.

Look at CW's site for more ideas.

I know I would be uncomfortable without my two dash fans and my front windows are only 20 or so inches high and the top 3 inches are blocked with a blind.  I have always wondered how the Iggle guys coped sitting under those 7 foot tall windows driving west in the late afternoon.  If you have any window down low behind a dash that you have no visibility thru, put mirror film on that also.

Keep track of everything you do and how much it improved the situation and maybe a "how to post can be put together for all.  I have never seen all the stuff I know of in one spot and there must be a ton more.  I mean, since you are going thru it yourself right now and all.  And have all this time on your hands. ??? ::) ;)  Idle hands and the devil's work shop stuff. :o ;D ;D

John

Quote from: wal1809 on May 26, 2010, 04:49:14 AM
...  If it works as claims I would like to put it ove rthe front windshield.  ...

In most states it is unlawful to put any sort of film or covering over the front windshield at all -- even if it is clear.

FWIW.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)

To clarify front window film..I have a 89 prevost with 2 small windows on top..they are covered completely...on the lower glass I sat in the seat and spotted a line of site out of the front window and put film 3 inches up above that site..It is not in the line of site and is like a band on top of windshield...clear UN tinted glass everywhere I look...I did lite tint the drivers side side window and the entrance door window no more than you have on your family car....even with the tint on the drivers window(band)you can see Thru  it to see overhead signs and scenery..has mirror appearance from outside....Bob

Quote from: robertglines1 on May 26, 2010, 09:45:56 AM
... 2 small windows on top..they are covered completely...on the lower glass I sat in the seat and spotted a line of site out of the front window and put film 3 inches up above that site..It is not in the line of site and is like a band on top of windshield...

The small upper windows are probably OK most places.  However, what you've done on the lower portion is illegal in many states.

Some states allow a tint band at the top of the window, as you've done.  However there are various rules about how wide it can be (often no more than 6" -- even on a bus window), and some states allow it only if it is part of the OEM windshield.  Also, almost all states control the percentage of tint, not only here but also on side windows.

While what you have done may be safe, and you may feel justified, states usually do not allow drivers to make these decisions for themselves.  Fines can be steep, and your vehicle can be red-tagged (prohibited from moving) until you correct the violation.  It behooves you to know what the rules are in your own state as well as any states into which you take the coach.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.Blogspot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)

amazing

Sean is right as far as I know.....I know, it gets boring.  No slice there Sean....really.

I mentioned that you could put that stuff over the drivers window and be able to see fine.   I WAS NOT SUGGESTING THAT YOU ACTUALLY DO THAT.  Sheesh!  Only that it is THAT transparent.  Of course I actually have driven with the fronts fully covered but it was only for 15 miles and everyone knows you absolutely cannot kill anyone in that short a drive.  It is clear!  Obviously not legal without even looking it up.

By the way Wayne.... This shrink film doesn't touch the glass. It is attache at the perimeter to the frame or wall. It rides high and is above the glass as much as the frame. Now, what I suggested was that you put a strip of 1/4X1/4 or bigger around the perimeter of the window frame.  Then stick the film to the wall so the film doesn't contact the frame at all.  My frames are aluminum and where the film touched the aluminum I got little rivers of condensate running down the wall.

I was stopped so very often in that Z car I built back in the day.  Many times the cop only wanted to know where I had had it painted or where I had gotten some of the body parts/panels and a couple cops only wanted to tell me that it was the finest Z they had seen and "you know you are driving a TARGET, don't you?" I did! Cops and seventeen year old's couldn't stay away.  I had a heat problem as we all do in So Cal.  I tried that really dark tint on the side windows but ripped it off when I nearly rammed a guy in a parking lot who was cruising thru without lights.  I just had this funny feeling I sometimes get and slammed on the brakes......tint GONE.  I did put mirror on the side windows down to my eye level for as much protection as I could get and still not obstruct my side vision.

With a black dash I wanted as little sun on it as possible.   I sighted the window and outlined the edge of the hood and front fenders on the glass.  I cut out some film that shape and put it on.  All I was missing was the view of the hood and I didn't care.  Got a ton of shade from that move.  

With the top of the windshield I sighted straight out and found that the "stock kit" was perfect so I put that on.  I ended up with a windshield that had a horizontal "slit" that sure as hell looked illegal to me.....but it worked really well.  I pretty much knew I was safe regardless of the law.  I had read that it was totally illegal to put any film at all on the front.  Took about ten days till my next stop by the CHP.  He wanted me to look him in the eye and tell him the thing passed smog cause he heard her scream off the line and down the on ramp.  He said he had seen me race and leaned that I was in "showroom stock class" and he knew that had to be a lie.  I not only looked him in the eye but whipped out my smog cert and recommended the shop to him as well as "that" tuner.....Paco.  I did caution that Paco was really talented but also straight arrow and would not falsify a cert for any one....ever.  So what does this have to do with tint?  I asked the chatty officer what he thought about the tint and how much I had put on.  He smiled and said "please step out of the vehicle, Sir"  After I did he reached in and rested his billy club on the drivers spot and sighted over the top.  "Clear view of the roadway, your OK" he said.  I thanked him and mentioned that I had read the reg that said NO FILM and he laughed.  Said that the Legislature was working on a fix but his instructions  were what he showed me.

The Lt on the SDPD that lived next door and his/our buddies gave me a sticker to put on my rear window.  It was for the California Law Enforcement and Peace Officers Association.  They said that they had followed me on a few occasions and I was not nuts but with a car like that my days were numbered and it was only a matter of time. That was a big deal n that group and cops don't do that sort of thing for civilians.  No more stops after that....not one.  And I deserved to have my PP whacked at least a couple times.  Ladies love outlaws.  I got the SC Lex but I really do miss that Datsun.

Now if you meet the letter of the law in the state in which you are registered, I think you are good in all states....as a visitor.  Even pulling two trailers in a state that forbids that and that is a conspicuous BIGGIE




John

"amazing"   Say's it all.

Quote from: JohnEd on May 26, 2010, 12:55:03 PM
...
Now if you meet the letter of the law in the state in which you are registered, I think you are good in all states....as a visitor.  Even pulling two trailers in a state that forbids that and that is a conspicuous BIGGIE
...

Actually, reciprocity applies only to driver license status, not vehicle configuration and equipment.

So, for example, my Washington license allows me to drive coaches up to 45', whereas in California, a special license is required above 40'.  License reciprocity means I could drive a 45' coach in California.

However, a 46' coach is illegal in California, even though such a coach would be legal in several other states.  You can't bring a 46' coach into California no matter what state it is registered in.  That would include, BTW, a 45' coach with, say, a motorcycle rack on the bumper.

Now in practice, these laws are seldom enforced on a primary basis.  I personally know several people who have driven 48' coaches through California on more that one occasion.  A friend of mine also has a 45' coach with another 4' or so of hydraulic quad rack on the back.  But make no mistake, any officer who wants to can stop these folks, cite them, and even red tag them.  In California specifically, BTW, there is no such thing as "jurisdiction," so a park ranger, transit cop, tribal officer, or university cop can stop you on, say, I-80.  In fact, if you do something bone-headed right in front of them, they pretty much have no choice.

Do what you want with this information (including be amazed by it) -- it's your nickel.  I don't post these things here just to read my own writing, but rather because I would really not want to see any of you faced with what could amount to a several thousand dollar problem based on not being informed ahead of time.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)

Reciprocity extends far beyond only drivers licenses, for example, wisconsin vehicular law does not require security, or as of a couple of years ago it didn't, however, michigan recognises that fact, tribal laws are also recognized by the state of michigan in regards to vehicular codes. Possibly in california there is nothing recognizing jurisdiction but it certainly does apply in michigan, most counties cross-deputise with other law enforcement agencies that are licensed by the state, a tribal officer in baraga county may or may not have police power in any other noncontiguous county, it depends on whether they are cross deputised or not in that particular county, in many counties in other states the right of 'hot pursuit' is not allowed or recognized, some county officers must abandon pursuit at the county line in many areas.  Up to a year ago a michigan state trooper couldn't enter a tribal reservation to arrest a suspect without a tribal officer present or a national officer such as the FBI present to effect the arrest and hand over custody.

Quote from: cody on May 26, 2010, 04:17:11 PM
Reciprocity extends far beyond only drivers licenses ...

How far reciprocity extends is up to each individual state.  At this writing, only driver license reciprocity is universally recognized, insurance reciprocity is widely recognized, and vehicular equipment reciprocity is hit and miss -- mostly NOT recognized.

Many states take an "I will if you will" view of many kinds of reciprocity.  For example, my current home state of Washington is happy to recognize CCW permits from any state that also recognizes Washington CCW permits.

Quote
... Possibly in california there is nothing recognizing jurisdiction but it certainly does apply in michigan,

Not possibly, Dan, fact.  California does not have limitations on jurisdiction; a peace officer is a peace officer, period, and has all powers of all peace officers anywhere in the state.  California also recognizes sworn officers from neighboring states (Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona) within a certain distance of their state lines, to facilitate interstate pursuits.

My current home state of Washington, however, does impose jurisdictional limitations.  For example, tribal officers generally have no jurisdiction outside of their reservations except in regards to tribe members, unless they are also deputized or sworn by another agency.

I am well aware of Michigan's jurisdictional limitations.

Note that my last post did specifically state I was talking about California.  Visitors, new residents, and even some long-time Californians are often taken by surprise when they get pulled over on the freeway by a tribal officer, cited in town by a park ranger, or arrested in Beverly Hills by a Los Angeles cop.  As long as we were talking about states with restrictive vehicle laws (and California is pretty restrictive), I thought I would pass that little tidbit along to the bus community.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)

amazing, absolutely amazing and I'll leave it at that

Quote from: cody on May 26, 2010, 04:45:04 PM
amazing, absolutely amazing and I'll leave it at that

oh go on Cody and let er rip :)

No need, everyone here knows I'm retired from state law enforcement lol.

Well, this thread wondered quite far...

Let's all take 5.

Tempory lock down
Sorry
Nick-