I am considering getting one, but I was reading http://www.harborpointac.com/ebay/ads/download/example_guide.pdf (http://www.harborpointac.com/ebay/ads/download/example_guide.pdf) which is installation instructions for one of them and the clearances it advises cannot be obtained in a bus. To those people who use these type of air conditioners, what brand do you use? how do you have them set up in your bus? did you do it yourself or hire someone to do it? what btus are you getting? do you have the heat pump too? how quiet are they? how well do they work? Thanks!
two issues level coach if it is not will spill over to inside...enough air to outside condenser....solution catch pan in cabinet installation..and use old bus air conditioner condenser compartment with outside forced air induction...Hope Nick will chime in here he has done it and these problems he pointed out to me...
I installed mine myself ( 1 ton ) and has condensate drain to outside under the bus I could put louvers on doors of the cargo compartment but havn't as I just open the doors. It is a Heat pump and works very well both ways. Uses 410 gas and is very efficient. I have had it for three years now and still working well. Jerry
The clear spec does not consider forced air circulation. I thought a "square" condenser/compressor would work without a fan if I could exhaust the thing outside and let that internal fan circulate the air it needed. And a round one would waste alot of bay space. Trade offs......always trade offs.
John
Jerry
Were the connections on that unit the flare type or were they brazed???
If they are the flare type have you had to add any charge to the system???
I have a unit I am going to install that is heat pump and cooler but I have been curious about the connections working loose from vibration.
Melbo
Jerry 1 ton on a 40 ft coach???does it hold temp to 72 in 90 plus weather??what about circulation inside...where did you locate evaporator??
What brands are you guys using? I would like to use mine for OTR, so opening the bay doors is not an option. Are the compartments your using vented on the floor as well as the door?
John the one I plan on using is open on sides louvered top to bottom 53 inches wide and has two 12 inch holes in floor where otr ac condenser is located now.(2 fans there now) draws air in door and Thur factory condenser out bottom...will probably reverse operation as split air comes with own fan...and remove 24 volt fans.and put mesh over opening in floor and leave for air inlet to mini split ac...that is what I did when I used two window units before..they presented return air and ducting problems..I solved those but looks with efficiency loss that way the mini split could be far the best with less BTU needed to heat and cool space...Bob
Quote from: John Z on April 29, 2010, 08:32:24 PM
What brands are you guys using? I would like to use mine for OTR, so opening the bay doors is not an option. Are the compartments your using vented on the floor as well as the door?
Quote from: robertglines1 on April 29, 2010, 05:50:44 PM
Jerry 1 ton on a 40 ft coach???does it hold temp to 72 in 90 plus weather??what about circulation inside...where did you locate evaporator??
This scares me just 12000 btu ??? need feed back here..I know their figures say it will be more than enough...would be a great surprise though...and a boost to our coach air cost...especially to cost in camp grounds where you have to pay electic extra..
Could the condensation be rerouted to a special tank just for the toilet (and of course the toilet would still get regular water as well)? What brands and btus are you people using that have them? Would one large unit or 2 smaller units be advised in a 40' bus? Can the fresh air come from underneath the bus (like a vented floor only)? Are they practical for both on the road as well as boondocking? How much battery and inverter would be required? Im thinking about going with 10 batteries and an inverter only instead of a generator...... would this work?
A one ton unit is nearly equal to three portable electric heaters. If you buy the current high SEER versions, you should be able to power one up with little more than 3/4 KW. This size has been available as either 120 or 240 volt. Be sure to get the 120 volt model to keep your installed cost down.
The indoor unit would work pretty well if it was placed just behind the destination sign pointed aft. I think that the specs call for a minimum of 12 feet for unobstructed air flow. These move something like 300 CFM, so you'll feel the air moving and hear it. You will hear the compressor some when it is running, as well.
We are using Harbor Point units and have had no trouble with the business, except that they are often very busy. They tell me that there will be no more of the 13 SEER units when they restock in May. We have been buying them to use in apartments and they have been meeting and exceeding spec.
They are, by far, the least expensive way to heat your coach, even if you are plugged into shore power all the time. And the high SEER units available now say they will operate down to -4F and have 2/3 of full output at 17F. They even tolerate input voltage swings from around 200 to 250 volts.
I haven't tried ours out on modified sign wave power yet. Maybe someone else has.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey
Robery.
Scares me too. They spec the 12,000 for a max 500 sq foot home. 8X40 is 320 and that is a lot of glass and metal you don't find in a ome. They spec the size to be able to maintain that 72 in a 90 degree ambient or whatever they use for numbers. They don't discuss how long it will take to get the bus down to 75 if it is sitting at a 140 degree heat soak at start up nor can they discuss the air leaks of a bus at 60 mph. I don't think the mins will get it.
I truly am in favor of redundancy and hot spares.... when I can afford it. The systems I saw that I realy admired were the splits with two 1 ton units. One for the rear and one for the front zone. If one failed you could "limp" along on the remaining unit. If they both crashed you could stay alive using the engine powered OTR system while parked and while OTR.
I will always have propane furnaces for dry camping and short in transit stops for rest and meals. Cheapest heat in town.
HTH
John
I'm definitely a do it your self-er...haven't the money to do it any other way...have been using window air conditioners in a home built box placed in a bay with lovered doors. ducting has been a problem..but can be accomplished...the cost is close to the same with almost none of the problems of ducting..my present home built basement air is dollar effective for operation..I use 37000 BTU to keep a 40 ft coach and two front bays cooled: the bays are cooled because I used them for cold air return...eliminating the bays I could get away with a lot less BTU...doing a 45 ft salvage shell now is a 98 prevost paid 1200.dollars for:no engine or trans..plan on whole project for under 30 grand..the mini split would give more design ease and a lot less work for heating and air....I can see where this is far more ease of installation...more cost efficient in initial cost....free up bay space that would have been used for home built basement air...thanks to all considering trying two separate units a 1 ton for front and a 3/4 for rear.according to what I have gleaned here and at their site this should be over killed....Any more thoughts???????size????? Bob
Guys there are plenty of marine AC's out there in split or self contained units while I admire you guys trying to figure these out I took the easy way and bought the Crusiair 2 mounted in the spare tire compartment 1 at the rear no holes in the side of my bus no duct work.
Ocean Breeze and Aqua Air have some nice self contained units or split units also
good luck
does anyone have any photos to share of their system/installation?
From Cliffords thread. On the Aqua Air website they have a BTU calc.
http://www.aquaair.net/Quick-Calc.html (http://www.aquaair.net/Quick-Calc.html)
Hi
I am trying to figure out what I am going to due for my ac. I have always thought about using the spare tire compartment for a ac compressor but didn't know what type of unit would work. You said you have 2 crusiair units in the tire compartment. Could you please tell me how you configured that? Do you have any pics? Thanks
Jared
Quote from: luvrbus on May 01, 2010, 06:51:29 AM
Guys there are plenty of marine AC's out there in split or self contained units while I admire you guys trying to figure these out I took the easy way and bought the Crusiair 2 mounted in the spare tire compartment 1 at the rear no holes in the side of my bus no duct work.
Ocean Breeze and Aqua Air have some nice self contained units or split units also
good luck
Check out this You Tube channel called Beginning from this morning, This guy Juan installed one on his bus and his videos on his bus project are great.
Happycamperbrat, aka Teresa, has an RTS; so there is limited bay space here. Roof airs are the best option for an RTS. The factory air, if working, is a monster and only good while driving. I have 3ea 15k roof airs of which I normally only run two at a time. The space were the "air handler was houses my 8k diesel gender in a soundbox.
The condenser space out back may be a lovely house for the outside unit(s) for the mini-split in an RTS?
I'd fight like the dickens to keep that transit bus roof unobstructed for access to all those places that we can't go with taller coaches, or have to make wild detours, to avoid "that bridge"
happy coaching!
buswarrior
It's going to take more than one split to cool your bus,I have a friend that went that route here he has 1-12,000 btu unit (220V) and 2 -9000 BTU units (110v) in a sprayed foam 45 ft bus he tried the 1 outside unit with 2 inside units
Didn't really want to keep tagging onto an 8-year old thread, but here's where I'm at:
I'm planning (well, they're bought...) installing 2x 12k BTU units in mine, so I'll let you know how it works in this recent 100+ degree Texas weather. Still some work to do before they get installed unfortunately for my sweaty self :)
2-12,000 BTU units1 should be fine parked,when a bus is on the move they are hard to cool that is why they have the 60,000+ btu coach air,mount the outside units where they can get plenty of fresh air or it becomes a problem in a hurry
Hmm, maybe I'll hook just the one up and see how things go. For OTR purposes though, I'll probably have to acquire a 2nd HD alternator... P.O. took it our for some reason.... If I'm doing my math right, HD alternator 12v @120A will yield me 120v @ 15A
(DC Volts [12]* DC Amps [120]) / Estimated Efficiency [.8 or 80%] = AC Wattage [1800]
AC Wattage [1800] / AC Voltage [120] = AC Amperage [15]
I'm probably over-estimating efficiency ;)
Just saw an almost new Prevost or Vanhool with a Volvo engine. It had 3 hd alternators mounted to engine. They all looked identical. 2 on one side in tandem and one on opposite side.
Has anyone installed their split compressors in their luggage compartments and have photos? I had thought that I could get one back by the engine, but the area is a little smaller than I thought, and while I could manage get one to fit, I think I prefer easier access to the engine & Webasto. So, now I'm looking to mount both compressors in my middle bay on either end or one back bay, one middle bay on the same side, depending on the tanks I purchase. I'm thinking it'll probably be best to duct them to the underside. Any idea if it'd be better to have the input from the side or the bottom of the bus? Or maybe other thoughts? I really need to get one of these units going to make working on this beast a bit more pleasant in this 100+ degree weather.
Both of my basement a/c units draw in fresh air from the side and exhaust it to the ground through a vent in the floor of the bay. Same with the OTR condensing coil/fan. Our generator also pulls from the side and exhausts through the floor of the bay. Seems like the correct way to to this.
If you ran it the other way around and drew air from the underside of the bus, you'd almost immediately fill your intake with grass, leaves, debris, and crap of all kinds and kill your units. It's amazing how much crap blows out from under the bus when we start up any of these units in a parking lot, even one that appears to be clean. I can't imagine how much of a problem that all would cause if it was being sucked in rather than pushed out.
The basement a/c units use a 4-blade fan behind the condensing coil to pull air across the coil and exhaust it out the floor. The OTR unit uses a large fan in the opening of the floor to push the air out, causing a vacuum behind it pulling air across the coil. The generator uses a fairly large squirrel fan mounted over the floor vent to exhaust the hot air, causing a vacuum across the generator and pulling fresh air in across the radiator.
My compressor unit exhausts out the side of bus and make-up air comes in the front of the basement. I left an opening in the front of the basement wall and the air up from between the front wheels and over the fuel tank into the basement. When moving this pressurizes the basement slightly and when stopped that area is shaded and a little cooler. One of the photos is the freon lines routed from the basement through the utility wall into the ceiling. That is a 220 vac unit that draws about 2,000 watts powered by a 4024 Trace through a 5,000 watt step-up transformer. I have a 24,000 btu unit above the driver/copilot; that kept us comfortable going to the Great American Eclipse in Oregon in near 100 degree and sunny in a greenhouse (Neoplan Cityliner).
What the greenhouse looks like.
Thank you for the photos Lee, that sounds like a much better option. Happen to recall how much of an opening you left in the front? I'll have to account for 2x units pulling. Maybe I'll install a catch basin and use it for a vacuum system, I'm sure I'll be pulling some good CFM lol. I'll have to try to crawl under the bus and see what I can manage since I'm not pulling the floors.
Also, fitting name. I've always loved the look of those windows.
The opening is about 8" high and 6' wide.
Wow, that's a big mouth ;) I have to replace the rubber fuel inlets on both sides of the tank, so I guess I'll get a good look then at what's availabie.
Thanks again!
Quote from: Lee Bradley on June 07, 2018, 01:40:41 PM... a 220 vac unit that draws about 2,000 watts powered by a 4024 Trace through a 5,000 watt step-up transformer. ..
This is very useful info, Lee, thank you. Do you have the brand name and model number for the transformer handy? I am very interested in going this way. Thanks!! Bruce H
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on June 08, 2018, 05:10:15 AM
This is very useful info, Lee, thank you. Do you have the brand name and model number for the transformer handy? I am very interested in going is way. Thanks!! Bruce H
Just make sure you do your careful research before. In clamoring through various discussions, seems one leg of the 240 is out-of-phase and needs some special treatment.
Because the step-up transformer is a stand alone unit, you don't get into the phase problem of two 110 vac legs. It plugs into one 110 vac leg and steps it up to 220 vac.
Bruce I will find the model and brand but I ran into the same problem Sean had with a transformer he bought for his boat; very early dangerous failure. The input wire goes to a fuse holder and from there to the unit. That is good but they just laid the wire on the spade and soldered it so the solder was doing mechanical and electrical connecting. Shortly after I put it in use it quit. I checked the line voltage and fuse all good. I unplugged it and opened the unit and found the soldered joint had failed when the wire had warmed in use the solder couldn't maintain the mechanical joint and the wire has loose inside the unit and if had contacted the steel case ... very bad. I cleaned the wire and spade of solder and found a hole in the spade and ran the wire through that hole so the wire was mechanically supported and resoldered it. The unit has worked great since then. The unit has a 5 volt USB output, so I have added two computer fans to the case, one in and one out, for additional cooling. I have two welder sockets, one from the transformer and one from the circuit breaker panel, for the mini split. I plug the mini split cord into the transformer most of the time and the breaker when I have 50 amp service.
I have just finished installing a Mini Split in the 96A3, so I don't have any statistics on longevity of the Unit.
I thought quite a bit about where I wanted to install both the inside and outside units, I am trying to keep as much storage space in the bays as possible, but there is a lot of infrastructure that needs to be located in the Bays.
I currently have one Pioneer 12,000 110v inverter unit installed in the Front, the long-term plans call for a second unit to be installed in the rear.
Both the Generator and the outside unit of the Mini Split need to cohabitate the driver's side of the front Bay.
I have divided the bay in half with a ¾ inch plywood wall.
The installation is not totally complete yet, the unit is up and running, over the course of a couple of hours it will bring the entire heat soaked bus down to 75 degrees in 90+ degree Florida weather.
After much though I decided to mount the Condenser (outside unit) sideways, for now the bay door needs to be opened, I plan to replace part of the skin of the Bay door with expanded metal to match the OTR air bay door just in front of it.
The OTR air is still intact and works good and I want to keep it.
I did not want to cut large holes in the Bay floor, I decide that the Mini Split and the OTR Air should probably not be running at the same time, So I could cut through the Wall into the OTR Air Bay and exhaust the hot air from the Mini split into that compartment, there is already a huge hole it the floor for the OTR hot air exhaust and can actually use the OTR Condenser to vent through as well, I'd rather not use the OTR exhaust fan, but I could if it became necessary .
I have cut the hole and mounted the door to seal it off when the OTR Air is running, the plan is to install an Air piston that closes the door when the Bus is started and the bus air compressor comes on line, then open when the bus is shut down, I will also install a valve to override.
The last part is to create a shroud out of Foam insulation board to channel the hot air out the door.
So far with the limited amount that I have run it, just leaving the Bay door open allows it to run nice and cool without any issue.
The most difficult part of the installation was running the 25 feet of copper tubing without kinking it, Lots of bends and turns.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2FMCI96A3%2FAC.jpg&hash=29e6e48ca91509282bcb1a50e41d0a6ea53f8ef8)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2FMCI96A3%2FAC1.jpg&hash=c530166e759a1d955b2d5b4f96b0c03802d8ad40)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2FMCI96A3%2FAC2.jpg&hash=3a47b98ad8445d30c9f052f24f985e77407980fc)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2FMCI96A3%2FAC3.jpg&hash=df1e9e0a8ccf3e523661e5b25cedf26acb3ba8de)
Peter
Looks like you've got the same unit as me. That the 22 Seer with heat pump? I've got those same absorbing feet as well. I noticed the compressor came with smaller ones, but I'll probably use the larger anyway. Nice install, I haven't thought about a sideways configuration.
Looking good.
While you don't plan on using the mini in motion, the indoor unit should have condensate drains on both ends, I would use both. I use mine in motion and on a left hand turn it spilled cold condensate on my copilot/wife. Now has the drains hooked up on both ends. Would have been easier during installation.
I think my photos show that I anchored the top of my outdoor unit; I have tried to keep all motion out of the system. Copper will work harden and crack.
I would try to isolate the two sides of the outdoor unit as much as possible. You don't want the exhaust air short circuiting around into the intake side; easily done in our bus applications.
Just suggestions, I think you are doing great work.
How do you mini split people over come the max ambient operating range on your units.I am trying to help a friend out that has 2 Sanyo 12,000 btu's unit his will not cool when the outside temp reaches 115 here in AZ which is a spring day for us.
His bus setting on black top the other day when it was 104 they would not work.Pull in the shop leave it for a hour they would cool.Sanyo is no help to us about all they say in a few words is sorry anyone have ideas without tossing the units summer time is coming here
Quote from: Lee Bradley on June 08, 2018, 09:33:51 AMBecause the step-up transformer is a stand alone unit, you don't get into the phase problem of two 110 vac legs. It plugs into one 110 vac leg and steps it up to 220 vac.
OK, I think that we're talking about the same thing, but I want to be sure -- you mean that your transformer takes a single phase, 120V feed (or "leg") and it accurately makes the output 240V with the correct phase separation that normal 240V current has? Do I understand right?
Thanks, this is important.
Quote from: Lee Bradley on June 08, 2018, 09:33:51 AMBruce I will find the model and brand but I ran into the same problem Sean had with a transformer he bought for his boat; very early dangerous failure.
Thank you, Lee. That will be very helpful and I appreciate your effort. And thanks for the warning about the possible failure mode, too. If I go this route, I'll check with the transformer manufacturer to be sure that they've updated later units.
Quote from: Lee Bradley on June 08, 2018, 09:33:51 AM... I have two welder sockets, one from the transformer and one from the circuit breaker panel, for the mini split. I plug the mini split cord into the transformer most of the time and the breaker when I have 50 amp service.
Yes, I've seen other people do this for switching purposes and I like it a lot (esp. because it's idiot-proof and I can be an idiot). Thanks for that detail.
Best wishes, BH
The transformer is wound 1:2 so 110 vac applied to the primary coil products 220 vac in the secondary coil. There is no phase separation as there is no neutral it is strictly 220 vac peak to peak one single cycle. That is why I use 220 vac 3 wire welder plugs (two hot and one safety ground). The mini split I use is completely 220 vac no 110 vac so I had to use 220 vac condensate pumps. Two of my indoor units are mounted on hanging cabinets so I couldn't use a gravity drain.
Quote from: luvrbus on June 08, 2018, 12:53:08 PM
How do you mini split people over come the max ambient operating range on your units.I am trying to help a friend out that has 2 Sanyo 12,000 btu's unit his will not cool when the outside temp reaches 115 here in AZ which is a spring day for us.
His bus setting on black top the other day when it was 104 they would not work.Pull in the shop leave it for a hour they would cool.Sanyo is no help to us about all they say in a few words is sorry anyone have ideas without tossing the units summer time is coming here
I don't know. I don't work with those temps. When I went down to Oregon for the eclipse the temps were in the upper 90's and I was parked in the direct sun for five days and no problems with my Sanyo. But I haven't had to deal with your kind of temps ... in the bus.
Im curious on the Sanyo ac units, were they showing an error code or do the have a screen for this.
This bothers me if something like this shut down spec is in the software.
Particularly with ambient tempature, without a cause of over heated parts from usage. It really leads one to think they are made for a more mild climate, and many times no one could know these particulars.
Good day
Floyd
Quote from: luvrbus on June 08, 2018, 12:53:08 PM
How do you mini split people over come the max ambient operating range on your units.I am trying to help a friend out that has 2 Sanyo 12,000 btu's unit his will not cool when the outside temp reaches 115 here in AZ which is a spring day for us.
His bus setting on black top the other day when it was 104 they would not work.Pull in the shop leave it for a hour they would cool.Sanyo is no help to us about all they say in a few words is sorry anyone have ideas without tossing the units summer time is coming here
try starting them at night ?
is it any cooler ?
find the sensor and blast it with canned air ?
Peterbylt, I have/had a mesh door off of my 5C. Would you like me to look? I am in Pa. Tom
Phuriousgeorge,
The unit I got is the 17 Seer unit.
https://www.highseer.com/high-seer-inverter-mini-split-ductless/ductless-mini-split-heat-pump-wys012a-17.html (https://www.highseer.com/high-seer-inverter-mini-split-ductless/ductless-mini-split-heat-pump-wys012a-17.html)
I tried to use the Flat rubber mounts that came with the unit, discovered that I needed more height for the condensation drain that I will need when/if I ever run it in heat mode.
The rubber mounts lined up almost perfectly with the high side of the ribs stamped into the Bay Floor.
Lee Bradley,
Thank You for the suggestion to use two drains for the condensation drain on the inside unit, I have not addressed a permanent solution for it yet, currently I stick the tube out the driver's window, I plan to replace that flimsy tube they give you with some PEX tubing.
The Mounts on it now keep it mounted pretty solid, I will investigate mounting it from the top as well.
I also plan on creating a shroud on the exhaust side out of solid foam insulation board to channel the hot air out the hole I made into the OTR Air Bay, that should keep the exhaust out of the intake side.
luvrbus,
I have not used it in temperature's that hot (yet) so I cannot say if it will shut down, I hope not, The wife would have us camping in a Holiday Inn, or idling the bus to run the OTR air.
Possibly try a misting device like some Busnuts use on their Radiators?
Tom Y,
Sure I would like to take a look, do you have any pictures? Probably won't be a good match for the 96A3 bay doors.
My current plan is to take off the lower Bumper looking part and recreate the look with expanded metal just like they did on the OTR Air bay door, I want to keep the upper stainless part and the door latch intact.
Hoping that will allow enough airflow to operate the AC and/or the generator. (once I get the Generator operational)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2FBaydoor.jpg&hash=509f74a0006e162de229427338458dbf4e9b36a9)
Peter
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on June 08, 2018, 05:10:15 AM
This is very useful info, Lee, thank you. Do you have the brand name and model number for the transformer handy? I am very interested in going this way. Thanks!! Bruce H
It is a PYLE PVTC5000U
Quote from: Lee Bradley on June 10, 2018, 07:54:58 PMIt is a PYLE PVTC5000U
Thank you, Lee. That's very helpful. Do you know if it's practical/possible to "hard-wire" the 240V output of that unit?
Just about anything is possible. You could take the case apart and drill it for conduit and hard wire it.
I dont mind anyone continuing an old but good thread topic, besides the title is spot on.
Anyway do some of you recall someone doing or considering the instalation on these condensors at the top rear of the coach. This was mentioned in a build conversion or major retrofit kinda reno.
I found this pretty interesting and knowing its a major project separating this new area from the inside and for-sure considering the weather and its influence in the area.
Hey just rambling the ideas
Floyd
Peter, I found my condenser door. All mesh, looks like yours but 30" H, 34" W.
Hi Guys
Late to the thread but I have a minisplit installation I'm pretty happy with
I put my outdoor unit in the old condenser bay. I made a unistrut structure, and put grating at the bottom to admit air from the bottom Exhausts hot air out fo the side.
Inside I used 3 of the Ducted version of the inside unit. placed them behind the closets and used the back of the closet as the ducts Water drains through the floor and bay to outside
For power mine is a 220V unit and i have a step up transformer pulls less than 25 amps at 110V when the AC is running full tilt. I run it off the inverter going down the road with the inverter pulling 24VDC from the bus alternator. My OTR AC is disabled but I use the coach heat in the winter
Larry 102C3 Cummins L10-30
Quote from: Aviator on June 12, 2018, 01:31:26 PMHi Guys
Late to the thread but I have a minisplit installation I'm pretty happy with ... Inside I used 3 of the Ducted version of the inside unit... For power mine is a 220V unit and i have a step up transformer pulls less than 25 amps at 110V when the AC is running full tilt ...
Hi, Larry. Welcome to the Forum - you'll find a wealth of information and all the opinions you could ever use. There is tremendous experience and background among the members here. I could never have navigated this bus ownership mess without the help here.
What's the make and model of the unit you're using, also, what transformer? I need at least two inside (evap) units. I sat down last night and spec'd a Daikin system with a 48K BTU central unit, two horizontal inside evap units, and a 2'-square ceiling mount unit. It looks good but Daikin calls for a power draw of 40A @ 240V (about 9600 watts); the 36K BTU unit is only about 15% less amperage draw and, considering my unusual needs, I'm worried that that won't be enough.
Larry what L10 are you running? Electronic? Thanks Tom
What's the make and model of the unit you're using, also, what transformer? I need at least two inside (evap) units. I sat down last night and spec'd a Daikin system with a 48K BTU central unit, two horizontal inside evap units, and a 2'-square ceiling mount unit. It looks good but Daikin calls for a power draw of 40A @ 240V (about 9600 watts); the 36K BTU unit is only about 15% less amperage draw and, considering my unusual needs, I'm worried that that won't be enough.
I don't know that a transformer is going to help. With that load, what are you going to feed the transformer with? That is over twice the output of most inverters you will see in RVs and the battery bank to operate it would be impressive. That is more the full output of the big gear driven bus alternators 28 volts x 270 amps is 7560 watts. Maybe a 240 vac diesel generator.
Quote from: Lee Bradley on June 13, 2018, 07:34:18 AM... I don't know that a transformer is going to help. With that load, what are you going to feed the transformer with? That is over twice the output of most inverters you will see in RVs and the battery bank to operate it would be impressive. That is more the full output of the big gear driven bus alternators 28 volts x 270 amps is 7560 watts. Maybe a 240 vac diesel generator.
I have a 10K diesel Onan but I wouldn't think of trying to run it almost full time at 96% of its rated capacity and expect it to perform well and last. I put that example up to show what the first little bit of my research pulled up. I (think I) remember Clifford saying that a coach needs to have about 48K BTU (or 4 12K BTU rooftops) to assure reasonable pull down and reliable comfort in his Arizona climate and I think that I should be sure that I have cooling at about that level. Still, my goal is to find a system that's much more in the range of Larry's current draw but still meets my needs (don't forget, I have two levels - upstairs and downstairs - to deal with). But Daikin's tech data was very vague about the real-life total draw of the 48K "outside" unit and also two or three inside units so I'm not sure exactly what would be required in real life.
On a completely different tack, Mr. Welch at Welch A/C in Georgia suggested a big "dash" A/C unit driven off an engine driven compressor for traveling and driver/copilot comfort and a moderately big mini-split upstairs for cooling when parked (bedroom, living room, toilet/bath are all upstairs). One issue is bedroom is in the rear and it might be necessary to have a separate inside unit for good cooling, resulting in two units upstairs driven by a single compressor mini-split unit and that would almost certainly put me in the 240V system category.
Thanks for info, Lee. I'm going to keep looking and considering what would work best for me.
Insulation is the key-I have 2.25" of spray foam insulation and have 3-13,500btu roof tops, of which I usually only need two.
A couple of observations from pictures of installations. You must make an effort to keep from the hot exhaust air mixing from the cool air coming into the condenser. Many of the pictures just show the unit sitting in the bay-should have sheet metal around the unit to keep the two sides (hot and cold) from mixing air.
Also, with the picture of the freon lines, the return line to the condenser should be insulation wrapped. You'll get a noticeable increase in cooling if the return lines are wrapped. Good Luck, TomC
this was on the M C I . the green round thing is a 10" inline fan that pulls air through the system from the old bus a/c bay through a filter then through the a/c unit and out . I set the fan speed on a fan dimmer so I could control the speed and sound when parked . used it with my inverter when on the road as well , all worked great
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNFw14Ggy267sHvvAcBBp6Ne-XYPEKJxJY0csKJywHnvVWwwM4o0aERxPYJzBVhfw/photo/AF1QipNRZ9sMztjJdy05nKWvUACvuCkdQRt0uBZqWLvY?key=VFN3RFRCbktmRHlKTlVkZU1haTk3aFpLcWljYi1n
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNFw14Ggy267sHvvAcBBp6Ne-XYPEKJxJY0csKJywHnvVWwwM4o0aERxPYJzBVhfw/photo/AF1QipMlp1-xqmhkbnwdKZi_dsHQqf9x6GZwPe68gsvV?key=VFN3RFRCbktmRHlKTlVkZU1haTk3aFpLcWljYi1n
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNFw14Ggy267sHvvAcBBp6Ne-XYPEKJxJY0csKJywHnvVWwwM4o0aERxPYJzBVhfw/photo/AF1QipPIUfzRDfPhPVlk4nUmovnojE0xy5xykk3_CPBJ?key=VFN3RFRCbktmRHlKTlVkZU1haTk3aFpLcWljYi1n
dave
Filters must be a consideration for our mobile uses.
Condensers filled with road dirt/small stones, dried leaves, pine needles, bird nests...
Protect your investment, get something in between the great outdoors and your expensive HVAC parts.
Inexpensive solutions can be had, backed up with a bit of cross bracing so they don't collapse underway, or when wet...
Or spend money on purpose designed metal solutions.
And then turn your OCD loose on calculating the air flow obstruction and the upsizing to accomodate....
You're welcome, and I'm sorry?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
These AC topics get sorta of funny, I was reading on F/B this guy had a spray foam bus with a 12,000 btu mini,he showed the charts of the outside temp being 87 degrees and how great his split was working it was a cool 77 degrees inside the bus.
I live in AZ yesterday it was 112 he would look like rare prime rib here in a couple of hours with a 12,000 btu unit split or non split
Yeah, I've got both 12k units installed, but only 1 running due to distance (running on an extension cord). 12k doesn't do much in 100 degree heat with full windows. Granted, I've yet to complete ripping out and re-insulating, but I'm glad I went with two.
Quote from: luvrbus on June 14, 2018, 06:53:53 AM
These AC topics get sorta of funny, I was reading on F/B this guy had a spray foam bus with a 12,000 btu mini,he showed the charts of the outside temp being 87 degrees and how great his split was working it was a cool 77 degrees inside the bus.
I live in AZ yesterday it was 112 he would look like rare prime rib here in a couple of hours with a 12,000 btu unit split or non split
if you're not getting at least 22 degrees diff, your AC is under sized or you wasted your insulation funds or both :)
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on June 13, 2018, 08:49:06 AM
I have a 10K diesel Onan but I wouldn't think of trying to run it almost full time at 96% of its rated capacity and expect it to perform well and last. I put that example up to show what the first little bit of my research pulled up. I (think I) remember Clifford saying that a coach needs to have about 48K BTU (or 4 12K BTU rooftops) to assure reasonable pull down and reliable comfort in his Arizona climate and I think that I should be sure that I have cooling at about that level. Still, my goal is to find a system that's much more in the range of Larry's current draw but still meets my needs (don't forget, I have two levels - upstairs and downstairs - to deal with). But Daikin's tech data was very vague about the real-life total draw of the 48K "outside" unit and also two or three inside units so I'm not sure exactly what would be required in real life.
On a completely different tack, Mr. Welch at Welch A/C in Georgia suggested a big "dash" A/C unit driven off an engine driven compressor for traveling and driver/copilot comfort and a moderately big mini-split upstairs for cooling when parked (bedroom, living room, toilet/bath are all upstairs). One issue is bedroom is in the rear and it might be necessary to have a separate inside unit for good cooling, resulting in two units upstairs driven by a single compressor mini-split unit and that would almost certainly put me in the 240V system category.
Thanks for info, Lee. I'm going to keep looking and considering what would work best for me.
Bruce,
Do have any photos of your bus you can post? I'm curious how our total glass compares. Its hard to tell from your header photo.
Hi all
I've been around here for years I just dont post unless I have something to contribute
I'm using a Fujitsu system.
An outdoor unit that can drive 3 indoor units http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/us/products/multi/2-3-4rooms/aou24rlxfz.html (http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/us/products/multi/2-3-4rooms/aou24rlxfz.html)
And the slim duct units for the indoor side http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/us/products/multi/indoor.html (http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/us/products/multi/indoor.html) Scroll down
As far a the transformer goes its an off the shelf unit 5 KVA 110V / 220V/ https://www.amazon.com/Acme-Electric-Distribution-Transformer-Secondary/dp/B00JV3GM6I (https://www.amazon.com/Acme-Electric-Distribution-Transformer-Secondary/dp/B00JV3GM6I)
I got it for about half that just scouring Ebay It is really heavy, almost 70 lbs, I can power it from the Magnum inverter going down the road. I just tie the bus 24 to the house 24 and the Alternator has plenty of juice to move this along. I think im drawing less than 20A at 110 with the AC going full tilt.
Larry
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on June 12, 2018, 03:05:16 PM
Hi, Larry. Welcome to the Forum - you'll find a wealth of information and all the opinions you could ever use. There is tremendous experience and background among the members here. I could never have navigated this bus ownership mess without the help here.
What's the make and model of the unit you're using, also, what transformer? I need at least two inside (evap) units. I sat down last night and spec'd a Daikin system with a 48K BTU central unit, two horizontal inside evap units, and a 2'-square ceiling mount unit. It looks good but Daikin calls for a power draw of 40A @ 240V (about 9600 watts); the 36K BTU unit is only about 15% less amperage draw and, considering my unusual needs, I'm worried that that won't be enough.
Quote from: Tom Y on June 13, 2018, 05:08:47 AM
Larry what L10 are you running? Electronic? Thanks Tom
Hi Tom
Nope its a straight mechanical L10 with a allison 740 transmission
IT works well but I'm still sorting out transmission oddities
Larry
Clifford: have a friend that is a hvac guy. He put a box fan on his outside unit to help this problem.. He was on road and went to walmart and purchased a cheap box fan to move more air.
Quote from: robertglines1 on June 17, 2018, 06:49:37 AM
Clifford: have a friend that is a hvac guy. He put a box fan on his outside unit to help this problem.. He was on road and went to walmart and purchased a cheap box fan to move more air.
Thanks Bob will we try it,has to be some type air/heat problem they will work fine inside the shop no so on the blacktop, some times they will start and run only for a few minutes in the 110F
Quote from: Lee Bradley on June 14, 2018, 10:51:01 AMBruce,
Do have any photos of your bus you can post? I'm curious how our total glass compares. Its hard to tell from your header photo.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ycY9wCz45d4HqykQiDNYfQyCa2A3BjtU
Does this work? Thx, BH
I can see one small photo of the middle.
Quote from: Lee Bradley on June 17, 2018, 03:49:18 PMI can see one small photo of the middle.
"Google Photos" says I gave you "permission". Did that help?
(PS - I got lots of windows!)
Got a message 'View Album' clicked on that and could view one photo.
Quote from: Lee Bradley on June 17, 2018, 08:30:38 PMGot a message 'View Album' clicked on that and could view one photo.
I find the "Google Photo" thing unfathomable. There should be one full-size photo in that "album". I couldn't find a way to store a single photo by itself and make it public -- or at least viewable by another person -- without doing it that way.
If you can see the photo full size, you can see the overall geography and number of windows I'm dealing with.
Edit! I got a request from Floyd to see that photo so I got clicking around on the "Advanced" settings and I think I found a way to set it just "public". It might take this URL:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ycY9wCz45d4HqykQiDNYfQyCa2A3BjtU?usp=sharing
(When I click on that, it pops up as a match-box size photo but if I click on the small photo, it comes up full size.)
Are you saying this google storage is a new venture. Or its changed from past photo uploads you made to your ablums.
Good day
Floyd
Edit: with permision granted the photo looks fine on my phone and with a couple finger taps the photo zooms in, so that works as I think it should. Im not real familar though, I think any photos have to have certain granted permissions the public sees. These storage sites are all something special and require being familar with. This is my initial try and so, just saying thanks for the permission.
Quote from: brmax on June 18, 2018, 04:52:13 AMAre you saying this google storage is a new venture. Or its changed from past photo uploads you made to your ablums.
Good day
Floyd
Hi, Floyd. I just don't remember. I haven't used Google Drive much (I used to use PhotoBucket and it worked fine but then they wanted $299 a year plus the right to pull any photo off my storage and use it themselves, so that was the end of that.) I was trying to remember how the Google thing had worked in the past and there just didn't seem to be anyway to do what i wanted to do. Then I found some upload buttons and setting buttons that we sort of hidden. It's all a PITA -- maybe the new forum software will solve all this.
Quote from: brmax on June 18, 2018, 04:52:13 AMEdit: with permision granted the photo looks fine on my phone and with a couple finger taps the photo zooms in, so that works as I think it should. Im not real familar though, I think any photos have to have certain granted permissions the public sees. These storage sites are all something special and require being familar with. This is my initial try and so, just saying thanks for the permission.
Thanks for that feedback. I never know if other people can see them. Hope you and yours are good; best of luck with your bus tasks, and happy busin'!
Not meaning to revive an older post but this does have a ton of information especially when determining what A/C to install in your bus. My question is, how are your units running 220 from a 110 transformer with no phase separation?
Originally I was just going to go with a single A/C split system mounted in the rear over the engine compartment and drop the ac lines right down to the outdoor unit sitting in the engine bay. Ill have to do some sheet metal work to create air flow but I'm hoping I wont be using my units for OTR. The OTR A/C did work when I bought the bus but I think my Freon has all leaked out. But by the replies in this post, I think one in the rear and one in the front will suit me well. I kept the old fiberglass shell that came out of the front with intentions of reinstalling it. I may mount the indoor unit over the driver seat where the storage racks used to be. Time will tell though
Quote from: jraynor on June 29, 2018, 04:26:30 AMNot meaning to revive an older post but this does have a ton of information especially when determining what A/C to install in your bus. My question is, how are your units running 220 from a 110 transformer with no phase separation?
In my opinion, it is better to revive an older thread (esp. one that's relevant) than to clutter the board with fractures of info on the same subject. And you're right, lots of info on this one. Re: the transformer, you can't run 240V without the phase separation so it always seemed to me that if a transformer works properly, it has to -- 1) "transform" from 120V to 240V, and 2) provide the properly spaced phase separation. I hope I'm not wrong on that. I've looked at the websites for a number of these transformers and I am not sure (I was wondering about this myself). Unfortunately, the Chinglish (or Indglish) on these websites makes it hard to know if they really mean what they seem to be saying; in fact, most of the "technical data" isn't very technical and doesn't contain much data. I wrote this exact question to the Contact Us on some of these websites and got back answers that are either undecipherable or vague.
Quote from: jraynor on June 29, 2018, 04:26:30 AMOriginally I was just going to go with a single A/C split system mounted in the rear over the engine compartment and drop the ac lines right down to the outdoor unit sitting in the engine bay. Ill have to do some sheet metal work to create air flow but I'm hoping I wont be using my units for OTR. The OTR A/C did work when I bought the bus but I think my Freon has all leaked out. But by the replies in this post, I think one in the rear and one in the front will suit me well. I kept the old fiberglass shell that came out of the front with intentions of reinstalling it. I may mount the indoor unit over the driver seat where the storage racks used to be. Time will tell though
I've been researching mini-split systems for a while. Everyone's layout and needs vary slightly, but if you read posts from people who live in or frequent really hot climates (like everywhere south of Whitehorse), you come away with the impression that the 45K - 48K BTU capacity is about the minimum for genuinely full comfort throughout a bus -- that's for traveling (which has it's issues of air leakage and solar heat loading, esp. through our big windshields) and also stationary (plugged in or running off a generator).
That implies either 3 15K or 4 12K BTU rooftop units or a similar output from mini-splits. And since most of us have varying floor plans, with mini-splits, there is the issue of number of indoor-units and placement. One way that's worked for some people is to keep their OTR running a dash air con unit (engine driven) for the purpose of providing a lot of cool for driving and two mini-splits running 120V off of separate 120V circuits, one in the front of the bus and one in the rear. This is doable, but it requires the expense of two systems and maintenance of OTR air and it's a fairly large load on a 120V system in a bus. (Some people solve their air conditioning electrical load issues by running their generator as they're driving. This does not appeal to me on a purely aesthetic level but it may be the best option in many situations.)
As I think you've concluded, if you're going to be running a mini-split system and you'll need 2-3 indoor units to give you the capacity and distribution you need, it's likely the best solution will be a 240V system with a large single compressor (outdoor) unit and the multiple indoor units. That implies either a full 240V shore-power layout, or a capable transformer with sufficient 120V supply to support it, or a generator that's set up to supply 240V.
In my opinion, it appears that the issue of the large startup surge draw of air conditioners is solved by the characteristics of inverter-type mini-split systems. Some people that tried them a few years ago had troubles caused by the vibration, air flow, heat loads, and other difficulties of use in a bus. It appears that the use of newer units with installation to meet the needs of the mobile environment are adequate but it's clear that care must be taken -- and you're entirely on your own for product support because a manufacturer will not recommend their use or warranty them in mobile applications.
It seems to me that you're on the right track but you're running up against the same hard questions that others have found.
Instead of a residential style mini-split which is not designed for bus/mobile use, what about using a split system in the style of what's used in the marine world? There are a number of split units available similar like the Cruisair units, many with higher BTU ratings at 120v. These setups have an indoor unit with the blower and evaporator that is usually set up for running ducts. The indoor unit's placement is much easier when it can be stuck in an upper cabinet with ducting run to distribute the cool air. Our bus has two similar systems installed - no idea who manufactured ours as they don't look like Cruisair - but they work well and cool nicely. Seems like it would be possible to get lots of BTU shoved in a bus using two of these systems. The big downside is the cost and possibly the need for a licensed HVAC guy for the install.
Here is just one site with the units: https://citimarinestore.com/en/189-split-ac-systems
Quote from: richard5933 on June 29, 2018, 06:53:51 AMInstead of a residential style mini-split which is not designed for bus/mobile use, what about using a split system in the style of what's used in the marine world? ...
Here is just one site with the units: https://citimarinestore.com/en/189-split-ac-systems
Thanks, Richard. Good info, but all the units I can find must use a sea-water connection for cooling condensers. Any idea for purely air-cooled units? Thanks, BH
Quote from: richard5933 on June 29, 2018, 06:53:51 AMInstead of a residential style mini-split which is not designed for bus/mobile use, what about using a split system in the style of what's used in the marine world? ...
Here is just one site with the units: https://citimarinestore.com/en/189-split-ac-systems
Thanks, Richard. Good info, but all the units I can find must use a sea-water connection for cooling condensers. Any idea for purely air-cooled units? I like the Dometic Compact Unit ( https://citimarinestore.com/en/dometic-self-contained/4692-dcu18k-115v-205600818.html ) but, again, sea water. Thanks, BH
Scroll down towards the bottom of this page - look for the air cooled units.
https://www.dometic.com/en-us/us/products/climate/air-conditioners/air-conditioners-for-marine
Quote from: richard5933 on June 29, 2018, 08:14:07 AM
Scroll down towards the bottom of this page - look for the air cooled units.
https://www.dometic.com/en-us/us/products/climate/air-conditioners/air-conditioners-for-marine
In their former life before Dometic those were Cruisair I install 3 in my Eagle in 1998 bet AC units I ever owned 20 years later they are still going
Bruce, The mini splits only draw what current they need for the conditions. ie. outside temperature vs inside temperature and how many heads you have on at a time. A transformer is made up of 2:1 ratio. The 120 vac side has two wires, one to hot and the other to neutral and on the 240 vac side one wire goes to Hot 1 and the other to Hot 2. The other plus of the inverter units that they are not too sensitive to voltage sags.
Those early AC units were much more durable. Now they have cut down on the thickness of the copper tubing or switched to aluminum, which is also thinner to lower costs. Now they list a heavy duty Coleman rooftop for harsh enviornments. Probably uses the older heaver tubing and components.
I think the mini splits will work fine no more miles than people drive a RV,I know this group that has 3 in their Eagle.
I am trying to get him signed up here to comment on what goes wrong with the splits when you rack up 70 to 100,000 miles per year in a bus.I want him to do it so it will be first hand information
One thing you can do to decrease the surge current is use a delay relay to turn on the fans. That way the compressor comes on and then a few seconds later the fan does.
Jim
Quote from: richard5933 on June 29, 2018, 08:14:07 AMScroll down towards the bottom of this page - look for the air cooled units. ...
I did. $$$ Ouch $$$.
Quote from: ArtGill on July 04, 2018, 09:00:41 PMBruce, The mini splits only draw what current they need for the conditions. ie. outside temperature vs inside temperature and how many heads you have on at a time. A transformer is made up of 2:1 ratio. The 120 vac side has two wires, one to hot and the other to neutral and on the 240 vac side one wire goes to Hot 1 and the other to Hot 2. The other plus of the inverter units that they are not too sensitive to voltage sags.
Thanks, Art. The low current draw is BIG for me; also, the idea that they will start without a surge is also a big plus. I have been looking at Daikin - did you install it yourself or have a "certified" installer do it (Daikin's website if big about certified installers).
My bus is currently wired for 120V but I have been thinking that it would be easy to re-configure to a full 50A/240 setup. I'd use a 240V/50 Amp shore cord when it was available; when only 120V/30 Amp (or even 15Amp) is available, use the transformer so that the only shore power is 240V. My big Onan generator is easy to reset for 240V. Then, wire for 240V to the mini-split unit, run 240V to anything else that needs it, and then split legs for 120V circuits (like house wiring).
I need a new inverter anyway -- might as well buy a large-capacity 24VDC // 240V/60Hz unit and be done with it.
My wife and I were down at her place at Emerald Isle a couple of weekends ago; we went over to Beaufort to show her parents around. We will be back in September (rented out until then), I'd sure love to meet up then if you're available.
Best wishes, BH
Quote from: chessie4905 on July 05, 2018, 04:55:45 AMThose early AC units were much more durable. Now they have cut down on the thickness of the copper tubing or switched to aluminum, which is also thinner to lower costs. Now they list a heavy duty Coleman rooftop for harsh enviornments. Probably uses the older heaver tubing and components.
Yeah, the "march of progress". They make more money when the customer gets less. Are any of the "usual suspects -- Coleman, Dometic, Atwood, etc. (and I'm guessing they're all owned by the same Chinese company now anyway) -- making a quality inverter-type rooftop unit with the harsh-environment rating?
Eventually someone will offer all the benefits of mini splits except for the roof protrusion in rooftop units.
In concept only, Im on to an idea with a flat solar panel above with fans blowing through chilled mesh.
Estimating a 3? height. I may have to work on this :)
Have a good day
Floyd
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on July 06, 2018, 06:55:58 AM
Yeah, the "march of progress". They make more money when the customer gets less. Are any of the "usual suspects -- Coleman, Dometic, Atwood, etc. (and I'm guessing they're all owned by the same Chinese company now anyway) -- making a quality inverter-type rooftop unit with the harsh-environment rating?
Coleman is still American made,the rest are Chinese and Mexico made, the Coleman Mach 8 plus is a good unit but comes at a price,Atwood will be gone since Dometic owns it now
Quote from: luvrbus on July 08, 2018, 02:03:29 PMColeman is still American made,the rest are Chinese and Mexico made, the Coleman Mach 8 plus is a good unit but comes at a price,Atwood will be gone since Dometic owns it now
Thanks, Clifford. I knew that there were some ownership shenannigans, just didn't remember the details. All in all, I'm pretty sure that there are not a lot of benefits for us. :(
Quote from: luvrbus on July 08, 2018, 02:03:29 PM
Coleman is still American made,the rest are Chinese and Mexico made, the Coleman Mach 8 plus is a good unit but comes at a price,Atwood will be gone since Dometic owns it now
Dometic is still selling the Air Command line under the Atwood name. Seems like for now at least they are keeping its features intact, and they are marketing it to meet the needs of a harsh environment (where it gets hot?)
Airxcel owns Coleman, Surburban, Max-air, and other well known brands. A new outfit is buying Airxcel.
https://www.airxcel.com/about-airxcel/news
Hopefully they won't move everything off shore.
You need to be careful with the Atwoods they don't work in extreme heat 104 is about their limit and Atwood will tell you that.
Mine or Gary Hatt's would not cool in 111 degree heat so I went back to Coleman and Gary went to a palm leaf with a young lady but that is just hear say from Gary
Quote from: luvrbus on July 09, 2018, 08:28:56 AM
You need to be careful with the Atwoods they don't work in extreme heat 104 is about their limit and Atwood will tell you that.
Mine or Gary Hatt's would not cool in 111 degree heat so I went back to Coleman and Gary went to a palm leaf with a young lady but that is just hear say from Gary
If it's 111 degrees why aren't you just heading north? Night time temps here are in the upper 60s right now.
Quote from: richard5933 on July 09, 2018, 10:12:57 AM
If it's 111 degrees why aren't you just heading north? Night time temps here are in the upper 60s right now.
I am north in Williams AZ a day time high of 80 and night time down in the 50's only a 3 hours from home but I still have to contend with desert heat sometime and I want a AC that works.Last week it was 115 in Ca and 118 in the Az desert not much difference lol but it is a dry heat.It's cooler in Williams Az than in Idaho or Wyoming where we plan on going later