I'm looking to upgrade my steers to 22.5 X 10.5.. I'm tired of polishing the rims..
I don't run Alcoa's but do the Accuride with Accu-Shield I am sure Alcoa's uses the same process a clear powder acrylic coating so far so good just be sure to dry they water spot.
good luck
We have the Dura-Brights and have been very happy with them.
How much weight are you carrying up front that you want to go to the extra-wide rims? That's gonna make your tires real spendy, and you'll need more muscle to steer at low speeds. It might also increase your turning radius. FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
FWIW :365's on front of new prevost..just noticed when visiting featherlight..I am getting ready to buy rims for new project so am very intrested in reply..Live in midwest and plan to avoid much road salt mixture..
Sean, the 45 foot Prevost does carry a lot of weight on the front my friends 2009 H-45 uses the 365/70 0n the front and tag we weighed his front and it was at 17,710 lbs
good luck
Bob, I got a quote of $2,977 from Prevost to supply the new update> Michelins, Alcoa's and hardware. $290 for new Koni's..
I have done some checking around> A friend works as a purchase agent at Pacar and he mentioned that Alcoa's has just implemented a 200 unit minimum order guideline. Prevost has the rims instock but it seems that we can't get them wholesale due to supply.
Sean, I haven't parked my steer axle on the scales. I am running 24.5 x 8.25 rated at 7200lbs right now. Everytime I talk with Prevost they suggest the "upgrade"..
I would weight it. Prevost has an axe to grind.
If you go to 22.5x9 all the way around, you can use 315/80 on every wheel position, and the Alcoa's are widely available in that size. Might even find take-offs. I'm guessing if you are on 8.25" wheels today, then the 9" ones will be more than adequate for your needs. 315s on 9" rims will support axle weights up to 18,000 or so on 75mph tires, and 20,000 or more on speed-limited tires.
FWIW, we upgraded from 8.25" to 9" rims explicitly to "upgrade" to 315/80 tires. For our weights, the 315s were overkill, but I wanted to run lower pressure for better off-road traction, and have the larger contact patch. It turned out to be a mistake; not only did the 315s cost a whole lot more, but we got less wear out of them, the tires rubbed the wheel wells in tight turns, and steering effort went way up. We're back on 12R22.5 tires now. I have a compressor and air chuck on board, so we can always drop the pressure for sand or whatever.
JMO and YMMV, as they say.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Sean, I will look up the weight limits for the Alcoa rims @ 9.00".. However, the "axe" that Prevost wants is 365's steer and tag. Aren't these the same tires combinations that cement trucks run?
Cement trucks indeed use super-singles on the steer. Remember, though, that these guys are routinely driving off-road into soft stuff, so the lower pressures are imperative.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
I am looking for some help with terms about tires. I thought super singles was a tire that took the place of dual tires at a wheel end. A wide base tire was used on off road construction equipment in the steer position. There are some tires (425/65r 22.5) that can be used on the steer axle that are 17.8 inches wide and require a 14 inch rim the same as a super single, but they call them wide base tires.Am I missing something.
Thank You Wayne
Quote from: rusty on April 25, 2010, 04:14:32 PM
I am looking for some help with terms about tires. I thought super singles was a tire that took the place of dual tires at a wheel end. A wide base tire was used on off road construction equipment in the steer position. There are some tires (425/65r 22.5) that can be used on the steer axle that are 17.8 inches wide and require a 14 inch rim the same as a super single, but they call them wide base tires. ...
Wayne,
I don't think there has been any standardization of these terms by the industry. I have heard the term super-single used to describe both -- the ones that replace duals, and the ones that are extra-wide for single applications. However, if you prefer the term "wide base" to describe the extra-wide tires for single applications, I'll use that instead.
To be clear, I was referring to the extra-wides that fit on 10.5" rims (or the ones for 14" rims) that Prevost is now fitting to all dual-slide conversion shells. They are using these on steer and tag axles, and conventional 9", 15° offset rims on the drivers.
One of the issues I have with this, and I would have the same issue with using the dual-replacement style super-singles on the drivers, is that it prevents you from interchanging wheels in an emergency. For example, on many Prevosts, you can lift the tag. So a driver failure could be worked around temporarily by swapping it with one of the tags, then lifting that axle.
For the rest of us (without liftable tags, or with no tags), a drive wheel could be swapped for a failed steer tire in a pinch. That would leave the drive axle one tire short, but at least you could limp someplace.
So I have a personal bias toward having the same size wheels and tires in all 8 (or 6) positions, but, again, JMO.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Sean, Thank You for your reply. I will stay with the term supersingle for the replacement of duals with one tire. And the larger steer tires a wide base tire. I understand your concern for the need to move tires around to help in emergencies.
Thank You Wayne
Wayne, your going to make those babies work on the 15 no matter what they are called lol
good luck
Yes. I don't share Sean's concerns. If you look at trucks about 20 percent are now running the supersingles and more every day. They are becoming common enough that finding a replacement should not be a problem. Also I have 80,000 on my 05 and have never had a flat. That doesn't mean I can't have one but if I do I will have to wait until someone brings me one. We will see how it works out.
Thank You Wayne
Dura brite rims use a patented process, not clearcoat. I've been researching rims for my truck and according to the local Truck Pro who used to sell Alcoa's they had quite a few that turned color, but then again - they used to sell Alcoa's. I've been looking at Forgitron, they don't do the 9", but they do the standard 8.25's and the workmanship looks real good. They also are much more reasonable than Alcoa's http://www.forgitron.com/index.php/products/commercial-truck-wheels (http://www.forgitron.com/index.php/products/commercial-truck-wheels) . I talked to them at MATS in Louisville last month about other treatments, and they don't recommend the clear coats because the heat cycle to clearcoat can reduce the rim temper. I've had Alcoa's polished and buffed so I don't have to and finding someone to do it for about $35-40 is pretty common here in TN.
The SuperSingles are becoming much more common for fleet fuel savings. And the California regs for new trucks into and out of ports is calling for improved fuel mileage and that is part of it so you will be seeing them much more. Don't run if you don't have tags. If you loose one you will be in major hot water if you don't have a tag to bring it down in speed and stop.
NEO/Russ, That is very good advice about the tag axle. On my 15 I have moved the drive axle foward to where the boggies where and added a 25000# air ride tag axle behind the drive axle.
Thank You Wayne
FWIW both Alcoa Dura Brite and Accu Ride are powdered coated same kit works on both brands to repair scratches so says the guys at Les Schwap
good luck
Powder coating is an electrostatic process where the particles of dry paint (or clear) are attracted to the metal surface and then it goes through a baking process of 375-400* for up to 20 min. Any aftermarket repair is done with a chemically cured coat like a polyurethane clear. That doesn't make it the same coating as the base. I'm sure what Les Schwab has works for both, but from my research and talking to many people, including engineers at Alcoa and Forgitron they state that "they don't powdercoat due to the heat". Perhaps they have another method of powdercoating, such as a low temp powders that they have patented rather than the high temperatures for typical dry powders that will lower the temper of aluminum (this is called annealing) which will weaken the rims. The point is that the coatings aren't just a clearcoat and that's why they are expensive.
Someone correct Me if I am wrong but aluminum alloys generally harden when held at elevated temperatures in the 300 to 450 degree temps! Is the reason perhaps the rims will harden to an hardness above that is desired. YMMV John L
All powder coating are not bake on Accu-Ride uses a no bake coating several manufactures of non bake and low heat powder coatings
good luck
Quote from: luvrbus on April 26, 2010, 06:21:21 AM
FWIW both Alcoa Dura Brite and Accu Ride are powdered coated same kit works on both brands to repair scratches so says the guys at Les Schwap
good luck
From the Alcoa websites;
1) Dura-Bright® is not a coating, but a surface treatment that penetrates the aluminum and becomes an integral part of the wheel. It will not chip, crack, peel or corrode, like conventional coatings do. These wheels do not need polishing. Regular washing with soap and water will keep them shiny, even after hundreds of washes and thousands of miles.
2) On ordinary aluminium wheels, a coating is typically a layer of baked powder that sits on top of the wheel surface. But, with Alcoa Dura-Bright® wheels, the patented treatment actually penetrates the aluminium, forming a protective barrier that becomes an integral part of the wheel. It completely eliminates the cracking, peeling and filiform corrosion common in coated wheels.
3) Alcoa’s new Dura-Bright® technology is a patented wheel surface treatment that provides sophisticated style that is easy to maintain. It is not a coating or a finish, but a proprietary surface treatment that penetrates and reacts with the aluminum thus becoming an integral part of the wheel. The revolutionary process resists peeling, cracking and corrosion. Automotive News recently nominated Alcoa Dura-Bright® technology with a Finalist nomination in the prestigious 2007 PACE (Premier Automotive Suppliers Contribution to Excellence) Award competition
4) Here is the patent number 20100021757, which does say that after all the other treatments;
"In a preferred further arrangement, a clear varnish or an easy-to-clean coating is applied to the first, but particularly to the second layer.
The application can take place in a wet method or also as powder coating. "
Which explains to me why we are obviously both right; the shine and durability isn't depending on a clear powder, but one may be applied after many other steps, explaining why they get so much $$ for the treatment.