Well, we had another glass company come out today, and they scratched their head, stood around and discussed it, looked at the rubber gasket, and said, hmmm, I will have to do some research on this, it is really different. Good grief, did we really go to all this trouble fixing up the bus so nice, to have it sit with no windshield? Is it really freakin impossibel ??? ??? OMG Anyone want to come here and put it in??? And if it is this hard, heaven forbid it get broke on the road, we would really be screwed!!!!!! Sorry for the rant, but this is ridiculous. Ruthi
These windshields are hard to do since Dina didn't use a lock strip and the gasket is really thick.
The place that does mine really hates it, but they do it. They did break a windshield when they did the third replacement on mine. If you are on the road I would think any of the MCI service centers would do the job.
Hey Brian, if it isnt too late for you, can you call Ken? thanks
somebody must carry this stuff. we had a large rock hit us on I10 in LA near NO on the way to TX. caught the jerk to get his plates and phone, but the insurance company said no good, they'd just fix it. sure enough, some lady called, got the info, and called back with the specs for an American Eagle Coach. Uh, no, not an American Eagle coach. An Eagle Motorcoach, as in bus. OOHHH. 15 min later she calls back with the right windshield and says she can have it shipped and to us in a couple days, just tell her where.
so somewhere, there has to be releif for you. Have you checked at Sam's Club? They carry a bunch of stuff! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Already have the windshield, just need a body to put it in, lol. Reckon Sam has that, ;D
Sorry to hear of your problems. Makes me glad I can do ours all by myself! ;D
Quote from: Dreamscape on April 06, 2010, 07:51:01 PM
Sorry to hear of your problems. Makes me glad I can do ours all by myself! ;D
Yep, that's one of the disadvantages of buying a foreign bus that nobody in America uses. There's nobody that can (or will) work on them.
Sometimes the old adage rings true when picking a shell, "You pay now, or pay later." The cheapest isn't necessarily the best choice.
Keep searching. Find a bus repair company that does windshields. At least they'll know something about it.
I was waiting for someone to say something like that. It wasnt a matter of cheapest. Not trying to be rude, but I get tired of people knocking it, because it is a Dina. There are tons of Dinas on the road, especially in Texas. When you live in a one horse town, everything is hard to come by.
Quote from: gumpy on April 06, 2010, 08:08:19 PM
Quote from: Dreamscape on April 06, 2010, 07:51:01 PM
Sorry to hear of your problems. Makes me glad I can do ours all by myself! ;D
Yep, that's one of the disadvantages of buying a foreign bus that nobody in America uses. There's nobody that can (or will) work on them.
Parts is a bigger issue than finding someone to work on my Dina.
What exactly is wrong with getting the new windshield installed. I am curious as to why it is so difficult.
It doesnt install like most. It has a deep groove in the rubber gasket that it goes into, no lock strip. The rubber gasket is all one piece, connected, and each windshield goes in one at a time.
Ruthi, call Central Texas Trails in Waco TX they ran the Dina before the new owner bought VanHools I bet the shop foreman can tell you the tricks to installing one 1-800-792-3304
good luck
Thank you, we will do that.
I talked to Ken this evening about this and sent him the name of the place that did my windshield so Ken can call him tomorrow. (C&J Bus Repair in Minneapolis did mine.)
Ruthi,
If you still need help call "Fritz" aka Carl, he'll be able to point you in the right direction! (may even know of someone near Atlanta!)
;D BK ;D
Ruthi, another phone contact is Ken Birchfield, Eagle Tours near Dallas TX. Phone 972-721-0545. He's their Maintenance Superintendent, former bus company owner/operator. I think Eagle does, or has had Dinas.
Based on your description, I wonder if the rubber goes on the glass first, then into the coach - the opposite of GM's?
From their website, MCI service centers----
YOU'LL FIND MCI SERVICE CENTERS WHERE MOTOR COACHES GATHER
With locations in or near Chicago, Orlando, Nashville, Anaheim, Dallas, Philadelphia, and Montreal, MCI service center network locations meet the strategic needs of motor coach operators for equipment maintenance, repair, and service. We have a bunch of Dinas around here (and, we are in the United States), so I'm sure this service center has seen a lot of Dinas. Dallas MCI service center ---- 800-248-4942
Arthur
Thanks to all for the help. We dont have it in yet, but we were told that it has to be roped in, and that is the only way to do it.
Ruthi, I do not know anything about this subject, but I have to ask the question: Would a different gasket "format" work with your bus? I would think that professional installers have thought of that, but it seems that the Dina gasket is pretty unforgiving.
Jim
Yes, the people we talked with said they charge more at their place for installing the dina windshield because there is a good chance that one is gonna get broke. Nice, huh? What a nightmare. To top it all off, with all the craziness here last night, the water was left running in our koi pond last night, forgot it, and it ran all night. So, all the water was replaced with chlorine water, and this morning I am losing fish. So far, 2 of the big ones, and the rest are not acting right. Grrrrrr. Anhow, have a nice day, :o
On our Eagle we had to rope it in also. What kind of lip do you have that the rubber goes over? Can you post a picture and also of the rubber gasket?
Ruthi,
So sorry to hear about your pond. Those were beautiful fish. Paula and I were talking about them and your pond on our way home. Guess what she is thinkin' for our backyard? Jack
Sorry to hear about your fish. My sister in Pickins SC also raises them. She gets upset when I show up with my fishing rod to go fishing.
uncle ned
Hope to get to go to the rally in SC.
What does "roping" a windshield mean?
JC
Ruthi - If it isn't too late, run to the pet shop and get some chlorine neutralizer - The next time if you fill a 5 gallon bucket and let it sit for a day or two most of the chlorine will dissapate prior to filling the pond - HTH & FWIW
Quote from: lostagain on April 07, 2010, 12:12:00 PM
What does "roping" a windshield mean?
JC
This is the way I did ours. Installed the rubber gasket over the glass, on the inside of the rubber lip I installed a 3/8" rope all the way around. Set the glass in the hole, with the suction cup device on the inside to pull the glass into place, pull on one end of the rope to bring the rubber over the metal lip that is attached to the frame.
This link will show how it's done. http://www.fordmuscle.com/blog/installing-back-glass/112212 (http://www.fordmuscle.com/blog/installing-back-glass/112212) Same principle, just a different application. ;)
JC, thanks for the question -- and Paul, thanks for the explanation. I followed the link, and I almost understand it. I'd sure like to watch someone do that.
Arthur
Jack, thanks for the compliments on the pond. That has been my pride ever since we put it in. It takes more than a bucket of water to fill it, lol. Usually when it gets low, if it doesnt rain, I put it in from the water supply, but it isnt enough to hurt the fish. But, when the water runs all night and replaces all the water, that is a problem. As of right now, about half of the fish are still alive. I went first thing this morning and got some stuff to put in the pond, but, we will see if it was in time to save any of them. >:( Ken just took a pic of the gasket, I will try to figure out how to post it. BTW, Ned, I have a neighbor who always wants to fish,lol.
The rope trick just works on the double seal , won't work for a center sealed gasket (gasket fits in the frame then the windshield) like the newer stuff uses .
good luck
Ruthi you may want to try camping world as a resource for the windsheild installation. They may not do it but may know someone who does. My Father In laws S/S has a curved windsheild with the one piece gasket so camping world should know an installer that could help you out.
Thanks Dreamscape for the roping explanation and link.
JC
Thanks Dreamscape for the link. The guys are trying to put them in as I type. They have the driver side in, but the next one will be a bear. I will keep you updated.Keep your fingers crossed. ;)
Hurry up so you guys can get to the Palmetto Cove Rally!
Here is a pic of the gasket.
another one with the glass in it. These guys are telling us that we could have used a universal gasket. They showed one to us, but they didnt have enough with them.
I sure wish we could make it, but, its not going to happen this time. :-X Next step is painting and tagging. the inside is all usable at this point. Front area is finished except for building the front cabinets for the tv and entertainment area. Booth, furniture, cabinets, counter top, water, elec. lights, all in. I am really proud of it. Ken has done such a good job. I love the countertop. It is silestone, white with the little mirrors in it. Ok, I will shut up, it is just getting to the exciting part, ;D If we just these dang windsheilds in.
I sure hope you hurry and get this done! My head hurts from learning all about your Dina! ;D
I want to see some interior pics on what you said has been done!..............Please! ;)
Paul
Paul...their bus is awesome.. They have done a great job..it will turn heads!
Thanks Rusty. It has been a whirlwind since the last of November til now. As soon as I find the cord to my camera, I will post some pics. Ken is only going to have about 3 days home the next couple of months. But, got to keep the money flowing to put into the bus.
Well, the saga continues. First one went in, and after a few hrs, second one was almost there and broke. >:( Guess we will be ordering yet another one. Their suggestion is to do away with the rubber,and fabricate a lip, and glue them in rather than try the gasket route again. But, it wont happen for a while, as ken is leaving, and it takes a couple of weeks to get one. So, who knows now when it will happen. So disapointing. Ken is totally stressed out.
Ruthi
I have had a similar saga with my windshields due to my bus having been in an accident unknown to me so I did a work around -- if you are interested I would be happy to let you know what I did.
Melbo
Melbo, did you modify? Any help is appreciated.
Did you go ahead and install one that cracked?? could tell you where it is binding or at least let you drive to another location to have the replacement installed..maybe go with the generic gasket available? just brain storming...maybe the area you install(start at)needs to be reversed?...got everything crosses(fingers & toes)...let us know solution.
On all buses the windshield frame gets out of square I have seen it to many times in the shops of GreyHound,Trailways,Prevost and others.
They take 2 blocks of hard wood cut to match the corners and a porta power square the frame and the windshield fits and him doing a roof raise I bet the frame is out of square no matter how careful he was.
The gasket is not the problem that looks like a standard seal the model 15 Eagle uses the same seal as in the photo and fwiw a 1/16th of a inch off will throw the frame out a bunch in 4 ft
good luck
I had never seen a Dina "up close & personal" until we visited with Ruthi & Ken the other day. The gasket is HUGE! It is thick, hard, and a 1 piece gasket that hold both windshields. The vertical strip in the center between the 2 windshields simply rest against the vertical support on the bus, it does not attach to it. If it has to be roped in, it appears that both windshields would have to be installed in the gasket, then the complete assembly set in place and roped in. With the size of those windshields, not sure how many people it would take to do that. Jack
Yes, they put in driver side, roped it in, and then got the other side up there, and struggled a long time getting it in, and then set it up to the frame. Almost had it. But.......... Jack is right, there is no other bus that has this type of gasket. It is huge, thick and not very giving. We have the company that did it looking into modifying. So, i will keep ya updated.
The picture of the gasket does not show how huge it is.
Another thought..measure top to bottom on each side and run a grid to see if they (the openings)are the same for both sides..Take a measurement move in 6 inches and compare to right and left side..run a grid and compare top to bottom and side to side and middle to each side should let you know if they are equal in openings...or mabe another bus nut could give you some measurements from his coach..like yours...wish I were closer to help out..Bob
Arrrgghh, Ruthi.
I know somewhat what you are going through. We struggled with ours a ton. I am sure you all have tried this...but, have you let the gasket sit out in the sun for a while to let it get good and hot? I assume that you are using plenty of dishsoap. And, I assume that you are also very frustrated ;).
Those windshields can be a PAIN to install. Ours took us a full day, and I thought that took a long time. I guess not. It is a kinda interesting idea to consider making it a glue in. Anybody have any idea why they don't have glue in's on the buses?
Sorry to hear about the troubles, Ruthi. If I was close to you, I would come over on the weekend and help you out.
God bless,
John
Quote from: John316 on April 08, 2010, 11:01:54 AM
Arrrgghh, Ruthi.
It is a kinda interesting idea to consider making it a glue in. Anybody have any idea why they don't have glue in's on the buses?
God bless,
John
John.
I think the reason they do not glue in bus windshields is that the windshielsds have to be able to move in the gaskets when the bus body flexes to prevent the windshields from cracking.
I know a busnut in SC that put 1 piece fiberglass sides on his Eagle. When he pulled out onto the road, he heard a loud pop. Friends said his one front wheel was offthe ground about 1' until the pop. These big apparently flax quite a bit. Jack
I know you are getting all kinds of opinions and help from the guys here. I was thinking this. Because you are having so many problems installing them this time, it might behoove you to take your time to find a way to make it easier. If there ever is a next time it might save the frustration on the next install, and save it for something easier to deal with.
I agree with Jack on the flexing issue. These buses are so big and long, with large pieces of glass they will need to move. Not only according to flex, but temperatures also.
I really feel for ya! :'(
Paul
Taking the bus somewhere is not going to solve the problem. These guys are very professional. I dont know what we are going to do, we are totaly bum fuzzled. We thought the gluing them in was the answer with the butle, with the windshield sitting on rubber blocks, and trimmed with rubber. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? UGGGGGHHHH The guys were telling us that a lot of motor homes have glued in windshields. They had just come from doing one. So, why would that not work on the bus?
Maybe we need a windshield party, and invite all ;D
another thought. After thinking about it, a little late, with that gasket, there is no way we could build the tv and cabinets up top at the front. The way it is now, you have to work it from the inside and out.
Ruthi
How about 100 mph duct tape :D :D I am sure Ken will never reach those speeds, lol
Just kidding. Hope you laughed anyway ;D
Bryan
Buses do flex a lot I watched a guy in Quartzsite showing off his new Big Foot hyd levelers to people on a 102 MCI and I tried to tell him to put all four down before starting the level process and he informed me he had a MCI not a rusty Eagle.
I then stood back and watched as he popped both windshields and bent his entry door broke both windshields when they hit ground.
I knew it would happen because I popped one from of my Eagle before learning a lesson.lol
good luck
Ruthi,
What bodywork does your Dina have? Is it Dina's own body, or is it a Marco Polo or Irizar or whatever? I'm just wondering if there may be any other options for your windshields. How close are you to Mexico? (Broken windshields are not uncommon on Mexican buses, so there may be some resources south of the border you could tap into, at least to get advice or to obtain gaskets.)
Just an idea.
John
I agree with the flexing but I'm not necessarily convinced that it's the reason windscreens are mounted in rubber (especially if some Class A's do have bonded windscreens - hard to imagine that a motorhome would flex less than a bus)
My bus has very large side windows which are bonded-in, but the windscreens (which are a similar size, possibly even smaller) are rubber mounted. The side windows are double-glazed units and hence probably tougher than the single-glazed windscreen though. Interestingly, my bus could be specified with either a single-piece or two piece windscreen. Presumably the customer made his choice by weighing-up the more modern appearance of a single-piece screen against the higher cost of replacing it in the future.
Back on the flexing issue - when I was looking at buses I went to a dealer to look at his stock and get advice. I remember in particular him telling me ''You'd be better off getting a bus with a chassis, son - monocoque buses are all very well, but you need to know what you are doing. Jack one up in the wrong place and the windscreen will fall out".
Jeremy
[Written before I read lurbus' similar comment about windscreens falling out]
Clifford,
I have read that breaking windshields is an issue with 4 point leveling, and it is therefore better to have just one foot in front. Is that the case?
Quote from: Iceni John on April 08, 2010, 12:49:21 PM
Ruthi,
What bodywork does your Dina have? Is it Dina's own body, or is it a Marco Polo or Irizar or whatever? I'm just wondering if there may be any other options for your windshields. How close are you to Mexico? (Broken windshields are not uncommon on Mexican buses, so there may be some resources south of the border you could tap into, at least to get advice or to obtain gaskets.)
The body is actually made by Marco Polo out of Brazil. The first set of replacement windshields for my Dina said Made in Brazil (in spanish) on them. When I hit the goose last year I needed another windshield and the new one is made for MCI by someone.
Removed
Does the book have any directions for replacing the windshield? I had to replace mine a few years ago and the book had a very good explanation in it. My only problems were that it has 6 panes in it and none of the glass folks around here would touch it, not to mention the glass was not available new. I wound up doing it myself. How is it that someone like me that has never done it before was able to install it when none of the pros knew how? Makes you wonder.
Ruthi
I had cracked windshields when I got my bus and ordered replacements -- the passenger side went in fine but the drivers side did not fit. I'm not talking about a little did not fit I mean there was a 3 inch gap on the left of the windshield and when you would drive the flex of the bus would "walk" the windshield right out of the opening. I could tell stories about driving a spicer and holding the windshield but back to the point. I took one of the cracked windshields and checked that it was still the proper shape (not flexed or deflected) and used it to build a frame which I attached to the bus and built another frame that bolts to the first and holds the windshield in place. I put masking tape around the edge of the windshield and the cavity that windshield fits into and filled the void with PL roofing adhesive caulk which is black. I then trimmed all the excess off when it was dry. Now if I need to change a windshield it is 6 bolts to remove and masking tape and roofing adhesive. As frank (slow rider) noted one evening in chat -- I may never find out how easy or hard it is to change a windshield if it never breaks. I have pictures and can give you a detailed explanation of how I actually did the frames.
Melbo
Bryanhes, you are too funny, you made me laugh. ;D
Ruthi,
I figured you could use a laugh at this point ;D
Bryan
for sure, ;D
Ruthi,
Its been a while back that I spoke with Ken. I meant to ask him but forgot. Did you guys leave the hump under your cap on the Buffalo?
Bryan
yes
I have to once again thank all of you for your support and help. You guys are all great. I appreciate the help and suggestions from all of you. Where else could I learn about 100 mph duct tape, lol. When I know more, I will let you know. Ruthi
Ruthi have you, Ken, or the installers called Carl "Fritz" Raines about the windshield problem?
I guarantee that Carl has had to replace many of them!
FWIW
;D BK ;D
BK, I dont know who you are talking about. But.........if we put it back in the way it was originally, there is no way it could be replaced if broken in the future. After the front cabinets are built, because you have to be inside and outside to get it in, from top to bottom. So now, we are thinking what else we could do for a solution to that problem. As I said, this is getting very old. :-\
Ruthi,
Any chance of designing the front cabinets to be removable? Just a thought. Jack
Hmmmm I will mention that to Ken, but, sounds like a pain. We will have a lot of cabinets and openings for all out electronics, etc, and that is a lot, also the tv. I dont know how solid you could make them if they were removable. Also, so far, we cant even get both the windshields installed without one getting broken. If one got broke on the road, who knows what would happen. We never imagined that the windshields would be the biggest problem with the conversion. I am glad Ken is leaving to work as he needs a break from the stress. I think we both got too stressed with this the last couple of weeks. When you see 450 dollar windshieds getting broken, not to mention labor cost, it gets pretty stressful. You can hear the money going, ca-ching! ;D
Sorry for the troubles, Ruthi. I am not sure what else to say :(.
Thanks for the explanation, Jack. Makes sense to me.
Now, I have never seen a Dina up close in person. But, is there any way you can modify the front end so a MCI D windshield will fit? Or is it not even close...Reason I ask is, D windshields are 200 delivered, and many coach lines have them lying around. Or, it could be a J or E, might be close. I don't know, but I am just throwing out desperate suggestions.
God bless,
John