Hi Folks,
Last year I reported about Dometic's basement A/C units were no longer being produced because of
the big loss of tooling Dometic suffered in the April 09' fire at the Mexican plant. This still stands!
Even worse.... Coleman has just announced it too has stopped production of their 2 ton plus line of
basement A/C and Heat Pumps.. Their main consumer of these units was Alfa See Ya Motorhomes and
since their demise, the sales has gone to record lows. Coleman also faced a redesign of the basement
units because of the law to stop producing R-22 equipment. So, instead of dropping more money into
them for a redesign, they oped to eliminate them alltogether..
Maybe I should start to build my own line?.. Lol
Some parts will still be available for a limited time from both company's.
Have a great day!
Nick-
" Maybe I should start to build my own line?.. Lol "...Why not?...Cable
hi nick i see your back i was waiting for you to get back to me on how to use a termost & chill grills
thanks john [ crown ] all serial # are in old post
At the price of Cruisair units, maybe you could. I mean, aren't basement units just assembled off the shelf components with some custom sheet metal. It seems to me that someone with access to AC components and knowledge might be able to build custom units for the bus community. I think you might be able to do it on a small scale, sell it for less and still make a reasonable profit.
Why not price out the parts and see what it would take?
Len
I agree with Len. Sounds like a good idea. Given the nature and size of the bus nut world, perhaps you could avoid the expense of a large inventory and just build to order. Sure it would be longer lead times, but it takes a while to build a bus conversion anyway.
Hey Nick, so why don't you just do it. Like Mike said, built them on a one off as the orders come in. You might be able to buy one of those Prevos you been driving! ;D
Ha Ha, you guy's are funny... but you are right!
I could easily build them since I have 2 Dometic basement HP's in my bus and a spare on the shop.
Last year I layed out all the materials and components with that same thought. Real simple to construct..
The spare in my shop was almost sold when an RV dealer in Alabama made me an offer 3 times my cost
to sell it to him... NOT. His secretary hounded us for 2 months for it! I just thought that if one of my units
were to fail, I wouldn't have the time to build myself another from scratch.
Hay Crown, sorry about helping you. I have had my hands full and didn't see your post. Please send
me a PM and I will address your issues.
Nick-
Nick, I agree with all your supporters who, I am sure, will agree that if there was a custom, one of, manufacturer for basement A/C units, we could be more creative with our interior designs; finding places to put the components where existing manufacturers are not able to be flexible enough.
I, for one, would definitely be a customer, as I am still trying to cool this bus of mine without giving up the other add-ons that have been requested to make this a fully handicap accessable coach.
So go for it, and let us be your travelling agents. A done-well job is your greatest spokesperson.
Keith
PCC
Nick and Rose should be home soon.. would give him a sheet metal project...I don't like the noise of roof top air...this is a needed project;product..
So i guess the new, never used one I have in storage MAY be worth something? Actually decided to not use it a while back and forgot I had it until this post. Maybe I should list it in the spare tire area.
JimH
There will always be some type self contained unit in the market for you guys to use in the marine and mobile home world you could see this one coming glad I have my split Crusiair units and with Carrier leaving the roof top business who know where the price of roof tops will go
good luck
Nick- maybe you could do what I'm going to do-modify the Penguin roof top air to run as a basement air. Since it is still being made, and now has been switched to the new freon, it will be around for awhile. About the only modification I see you have to make is to duct the unit. Meaning-the condenser fan is squirrel cage-you have to create a duct to take the hot air outside the bus like a 6" flex hose. Then just create an adapter on the return and supply to also facilitate a duct. I'm going to build a platform (I have 24" height in my basement) to make enough room for the lower return and supply ducts. And since they are already available as a remote thermostat-that's not a problem. Let me know if you'd be thinking on these lines since I need two for my truck conversion and would buy them from you if they'd be basement ready. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: busguy01 on March 23, 2010, 05:50:37 AM
So i guess the new, never used one I have in storage MAY be worth something? Actually decided to not use it a while back and forgot I had it until this post. Maybe I should list it in the spare tire area.
JimH
Jim, if it's a Heat Pump, I have a buyer waiting in line..
Nick-
So this raises the question of planning in the long term. Should we plan on roof air for our buses to be safe or gamble and hope on the future of basement air?
I have one basement unit and I've been planning duct work for that and was planning on adding another basement unit as well though I guess I could also duct roof air into my ceiling ducting and do both.
Personally I strongly prefer basement air but maybe this will be the deciding factor. ???
Nick
I do not remember and am traveling now. Home mid April and I will check and let you know.
jimH
Quote from: Nick Badame Refrig. Co. on March 23, 2010, 12:58:29 PM
Quote from: busguy01 on March 23, 2010, 05:50:37 AM
So i guess the new, never used one I have in storage MAY be worth something? Actually decided to not use it a while back and forgot I had it until this post. Maybe I should list it in the spare tire area.
JimH
Jim, if it's a Heat Pump, I have a buyer waiting in line..
Nick-
Nick:
Got home and it is a heat pump Are you still interested?
JimH
Quote from: TomC on March 23, 2010, 08:29:22 AM
Nick- maybe you could do what I'm going to do-modify the Penguin roof top air to run as a basement air. Since it is still being made, and now has been switched to the new freon, it will be around for awhile. About the only modification I see you have to make is to duct the unit. Meaning-the condenser fan is squirrel cage-you have to create a duct to take the hot air outside the bus like a 6" flex hose. Then just create an adapter on the return and supply to also facilitate a duct. I'm going to build a platform (I have 24" height in my basement) to make enough room for the lower return and supply ducts. And since they are already available as a remote thermostat-that's not a problem. Let me know if you'd be thinking on these lines since I need two for my truck conversion and would buy them from you if they'd be basement ready. Good Luck, TomC
Tom, Could you give us more detail on how to convert a roofer to a basement?
Thanks
Ahoy, Nick,
"Go for it!!!" By building only to order, you should not have the serious risk of a large inventory. A bit more costly for you and the customer that way, but survivable. I'm sure that there are a lot of metal fabricators available to provide the cases.
Also, you could then easily add the capability of including the option of engine driven compressor(s) while over the road. I have that on both my R-22 hydronic systems, with two of the old R-6 compressors. Works just great, other than the 'cold hose condensation problem' which I have previously noted. When plugged in, there are four each ~~14,500 btu 120vac compressors, (which have check valves in the lines). The hose condensation problem renders the system not really acceptable, but it is very effective and otherwise easy to live with. I'd planned to insulate the hoses while I was building, but didn't, and now it is just too hard. I'll just suffer with it. In your case, you sidestep that problem which I have.
I had not realized that machine production utilizing R-22 was stopped. I know that R-22 production is to stop in 2030. I'll then be even an older 'fellow' then than I am now.
Enjoy /s/ Bob
Quote from: Bob Belter on April 21, 2010, 08:32:58 PM
Ahoy, Nick,
"Go for it!!!" By building only to order, you should not have the serious risk of a large inventory. A bit more costly for you and the customer that way, but survivable. I'm sure that there are a lot of metal fabricators available to provide the cases.
Line me up also. I am still trying to find someone to put the components together for the cooling and heating of my vehicle. I am looking for a lot of cool, but I have found the size of evaporator that will work in the space I have, but it is the rest of the pieces that I have no idea what or how.
So let me know if you decide to do this. If not, we will all be disappointed. If you do, and need a hand, I would love to learn the craft.
Nick, reading these posts it sounds like you have a great business opportunity before you here. The big boys are backing out of the market because the market isn't big enough to support large corporations with big factories. And your target consumer base already knows and trusts your reputation and is encouraging you to do it. Sounds like the perfect niche for you.
What going to happen with parts for the basement units are they going to be like most and just fade away ?
good luck
you could make them run on DC, 12 & 24 volt, less inverter needed then.
Unfortunately, as soon as the government finds out Nick is "manufacturing" a unit, he will have to certify they meet all the appropriate standards. That will effectively shut down the operation.
And, don't think "No one will know, it's just between us bus nuts". I think Nick has been in the business at least as long as I have, which means he is known to his competitors. Somebody will talk.
TOM
Quote from: TomC on March 23, 2010, 08:29:22 AM
Nick- maybe you could do what I'm going to do-modify the Penguin roof top air to run as a basement air. Since it is still being made, and now has been switched to the new freon, it will be around for awhile. About the only modification I see you have to make is to duct the unit. Meaning-the condenser fan is squirrel cage-you have to create a duct to take the hot air outside the bus like a 6" flex hose. Then just create an adapter on the return and supply to also facilitate a duct. I'm going to build a platform (I have 24" height in my basement) to make enough room for the lower return and supply ducts. And since they are already available as a remote thermostat-that's not a problem. Let me know if you'd be thinking on these lines since I need two for my truck conversion and would buy them from you if they'd be basement ready. Good Luck, TomC
Tom, Do you have plans, pictures or sketches on the mods you are going to make to turn the roof air into a basement? Also, how about turning a roof air with heat pump into a basement unit?
Kenny
Quote from: oldmansax on April 22, 2010, 04:54:51 AM
Unfortunately, as soon as the government finds out Nick is "manufacturing" a unit, he will have to certify they meet all the appropriate standards. That will effectively shut down the operation.
And, don't think "No one will know, it's just between us bus nuts". I think Nick has been in the business at least as long as I have, which means he is known to his competitors. Somebody will talk.
TOM
It seems like what is being discussed is no different than what his business does everyday already. Assembling systems from existing components. It isn't like he would be building his own compressors, condensers or evaporators. Just putting together systems from components that have been manufactured in accordance with regulations.
Quote from: HighTechRedneck on April 22, 2010, 07:00:41 AM
Quote from: oldmansax on April 22, 2010, 04:54:51 AM
Unfortunately, as soon as the government finds out Nick is "manufacturing" a unit, he will have to certify they meet all the appropriate standards. That will effectively shut down the operation.
And, don't think "No one will know, it's just between us bus nuts". I think Nick has been in the business at least as long as I have, which means he is known to his competitors. Somebody will talk.
TOM
It seems like what is being discussed is no different than what his business does everyday already. Assembling systems from existing components. It isn't like he would be building his own compressors, condensers or evaporators. Just putting together systems from components that have been manufactured in accordance with regulations.
Maybe...... I hope you are right.
BUT,
I assume (almost always a bad start!) Nick usually puts together systems that have been tested by the manufacturer; i.e. a Carrier condensing unit mated to a Carrier air handler & coil that has been tested together to meet all the regulations. In this case he would be mixing different componets that have not been tested.
Anyway, it is certainly his decision & exposure.
TOM
Quote from: busguy01 on April 21, 2010, 10:41:27 AM
Quote from: Nick Badame Refrig. Co. on March 23, 2010, 12:58:29 PM
Quote from: busguy01 on March 23, 2010, 05:50:37 AM
So i guess the new, never used one I have in storage MAY be worth something? Actually decided to not use it a while back and forgot I had it until this post. Maybe I should list it in the spare tire area.
JimH
Jim, if it's a Heat Pump, I have a buyer waiting in line..
Nick-
Nick:
Got home and it is a heat pump Are you still interested?
JimH
Great! I will keep you in mind because I replaced alot of parts in my customers unit and it seems to
be running flawlessly right now..
Nick-
Bob,
R-22 production has haulted as of december 31 2009. Supplies are abundant and should last for the
next 5 years or so. However, there are new gasses out there that will render R-22 useless real soon.
First being R-410A. The only problem with 410 is the operateing PSI's are double that of R-22 which
will lead to more refrigerant leaks, compressor failures, and serious injuries if the homeowner attempts
to tackle a refrigerant refill.. Second is R-407-C & B which is my favorite because because the chactoristics
are very close to R-22 and is a direct drop in replacement for R-22 without having to replace the oil.
Next is R- 417A, also very close to R-22 but reacts more like R-134A and requires Polyester oil in the system.
Ok, gotta get to the office, I will continue soon...
Nick-
I know this is not on point..but thanks for info on ref replacement types..will watch while buying new air system...Bob
While I don't have pictures of what my idea for converting a Penguin ducted model to a basement modes, I went to Camping World and looked at one that was a take off. Both the return and the cold air feed, while they are not round, have flanges on them that you can clamp flexible ducts to them. More importantly, the Penguin is the only roof top that uses a squirrel cage blower to suck the air through the condenser and then blow it out the side of the unit-hence you can make a plenum to attach a flexible duct to that blower to feed the hot air to the outside. I'm going to try to find two 13,500btu straight cool mechanical control duct Penguins with the new freon to use (Nick?). Then just mount them elevated about a foot above the floor for space for the duct work on a platform, and then you have it! Good Luck, TomC
Tom, how do plan on getting air to the condenser coil? The units coil is a "U" shape. I understand what you want to do with the "house" side ductwork. But what are you planning on doing for airflow thru the "odd" shapped coil?
Ahoy, Nick,
So ---- R-22 is phased out now!!! I've looked, and there are a gazillion replacements available for R-12, R-22, and even R-134.
I believe that most (all?) of these replacements are a mix of gases, hence, if you have a leak, selective distillation occurs. Accordingly, you cannot just add refrigerant, you must replace.
Could you expand and clarify that for we 'less washed' than yourself??
Thanks /s/ Bob