I was reading on another site that Flying J was charging $5 to dump your tanks. Has anyone on here no of this?
Steve 5B.....
Only a couple of locations so far. Read about it here:
http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=82422 (http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=82422)
We dumped at the Flying-J in Eloy a couple days ago; still no charge there.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Quote from: Sean on March 13, 2010, 07:07:12 PM
Only a couple of locations so far. Read about it here:
http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=82422 (http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=82422)
Wow! Tough crowd on that other board. I wouldn't fit in there.
Incidentally, I very seldom buy fuel at Flying J, and the one time I tried to dump at one it was plugged up.
I use the Frequent Fueler card at Flying J, not the RV club one.
Shower is free with fuel, can be banked for a week, and all purchases go towards flying J money coupons that come in the mail to spend again. I think you have to be spending above a certain amount per month for these.
the RV club "discount" on fuel doesn't come close to equaling the value of the shower, and that's filling a coach tank.
And I'll be happy to pay for the dump, if that becomes the standard.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
ok i am the cheapest s.o.b on earth,but it's only $5 stop complaining.
although i think they should give it to you free with a 50 or 75 gallons.
I've been told that flying J doesn't work well with Visa, don't know if it's true but there was a major thread and rant om another forum that said they were having a pissing match with visa and decided to stop allowing visa, don't know tho.
Quote from: gumpy on March 13, 2010, 07:21:04 PM
Wow! Tough crowd on that other board. I wouldn't fit in there.
You will notice I don't post over there. But there are lots of full-timers and boondockers in the SKPs, so it's a good place to monitor for information on those topics, such as ever-increasing restrictions on where we can park.
Quote from: desi arnaz on March 14, 2010, 06:56:02 AM
... it's only $5 stop complaining.
I don't know that anyone here is complaining, just remarking. But now that you've brought it up, I will say that "only $5" is expensive, for what you are getting.
Municipal water costs anywhere from $0.20 to $0.50 per ton, and that generally includes sewer rates. So even at the high end of the scale, to fill up my ~200 gallons of tanks is half a buck, including the disposal fees for that much waste. So if I dump and fill at FJ (or anywhere else), it costs them perhaps $0.50. That would make $5 for the privilege ten times their cost, or, put another way, a markup of 900%. That puts it right up there with ice and those little half-liter bottles of water for the highest markup in the C-store.
I have no qualms with merchants doing this; it is called "charging what the market will bear." But I won't buy ice or bottled water at those rates, and I'm not going to pay that to dump or fill, either. That's called "voting with my feet." I won't cut off my nose to spite my face: if FJ has the cheapest diesel in an area, I will still buy my fuel there. But all else being equal, I will give my business to those vendors who demonstrate that they want it with less mercenary tactics. A 100% markup, or about $1 to dump and fill, would be more reasonable, and I would not hesitate to pay such a fee nor would it drive me away in search of other alternatives.
As a side note, I will point out that more and more places are closing their dumps outright, including some FJ outlets, so I suppose that there will come a time when supply and demand is such that $5 will seem like a bargain. For example, the Love's across the highway from here has turned their dump into a nice decorative rock garden, and we've been to several Petros and TAs that have closed theirs with concrete.
The reasons for the closures, and probably some of the justification for the $5 fees, are the sins of the few being visited on the many. We've all heard dump station horror stories and many of us have seen plugged dumps. Just like the ever-tightening overnight parking situation, all it takes is one or two bad apples in a parking lot or at a dump station to get the place closed for the rest of us.
FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Quote from: cody on March 14, 2010, 09:11:58 AM
I've been told that flying J doesn't work well with Visa, don't know if it's true but there was a major thread and rant om another forum that said they were having a pissing match with visa and decided to stop allowing visa, don't know tho.
No longer true. Old news.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Quote from: cody on March 14, 2010, 09:11:58 AM
I've been told that flying J doesn't work well with Visa, don't know if it's true but there was a major thread and rant om another forum that said they were having a pissing match with visa and decided to stop allowing visa, don't know tho.
Flying J doesn't play well with others at all!
Back in the 80's & 90's when the "J" was growing leaps and bounds they were a good thing.
But after they realized there was more $ in selling convenience store style stuff to locals and everyday travelers they turned their backs on the Truckers and RV's who had patronized them for years!
When they started building their own $ card system in the 90's they had it out with COMDATA the largest commercial trucking $ sytem for paying for fuel & repairs on the road. (they had harvest tons if Comdata's customer info and tried to steal the customers )
So when it blew up on them they refused to accept Comdata anymore.
I quit using them on a regular basis long before they stopped accepting VISA, but I figure it's about the same deal. (we do fuel at Flying J's when the price is right and it's convenient to do so, but when hauling people it ain't always best option. Also we are authorized in their system to write checks and receive cash price. But lately their prices are outrageous!) YMMV
;D BK ;D
It may only cost Flying J 50 cents for the water and sewer, but what about their other costs? That truck stop didn't just build itself. I bet keeping the dump operational probably costs as much as the water and sewer bill. Someone has to unclog it when it gets clogged. Just taking your money costs money although you're probably not buying only a dump.
I would prefer that it be free because most users will buy fuel and/or food and drink in the same stop. I do understan d why they would charge $5 if they charge anything.
Flying J had quit taking Visa at the truck pumps only due to a dispute over how the credit price for fuel was advertised. Like Sean said, Flying J is once again taking Visa for everything. I use the RV pumps and spend the extra 10 minutes at the pump because I don't pay the credit card surcharge then.
$5 is a small price to pay when your wife is complaining that the coach smells like s**t.
Quote from: desi arnaz on March 14, 2010, 09:47:04 AM
$5 is a small price to pay when your wife is complaining that the coach smells like s**t.
Cheaper & quieter to tell her to get out! ;)
;D BK ;D
It would not surprise me that regulations are tightening all over the place regarding dealing with the waste.
If dumping the RV toilet was an employee job here in Ontario, Health and Safety legislation would put a burden on the employer to train in proper techniques, supply personal protective gear, (with the high chance for sprayed contact, some sort of full suit, face/hand protection and a clean up/change area that meets suitable standards to prevent cross contamination of employee's personal clothing) no doubt some sort of periodic engineering evaluation of the dump and connected systems, same as what they have to do with the fuel tanks now... reporting of every spill or release of waste outside the intended path.
the dump hose and valving would probably be outlawed due to it's easily compromised cheap plastic, unable to properly clean all those ribs, exposing the workers to human waste.
Spilling anything outside the pipe would no doubt be dimly viewed by the authorities.
In short, a compliance nightmare with no direct income!
If the local jurisdiction has some environmental law about these open sewers, letting the public in with no supervision is a growing liability.
I can see why a business would decide that the hassles aren't worth it.
And when campgrounds start being looked at more closely on this topic...
It has only just begun.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
oh, and if you happen to have a bunch of chemical waste that you want rid of cheap?
Waste oil? Old gasoline? Industrial waste? Horribly toxic goo that will cost more than you are worth to dispose of?
If I had no values and no God, I know where I would have been dumping it for free...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
The only time we have ever paid for dump services is at Quartzsite and as I recall it was $5 to dump and $2 to reload the water so I guess $5 isn't out of line. If your goal is to never spend a night in a "real" RV site with your bus then I suppose you might be concerned by the charge but for most of us our holding tanks aren't limiting for reasonable stretches of travel. We frequently spend 2 or 3 nights on the road between parks and then dump when we get hooked up again. If your goal is to spend all your time "off the grid" then it seems reasonable that you will have to spend something to get rid of your waste and its more than a little disingenuous to suggest that the only cost to the dump operator is the water tax. The biggest cost to any business is labour and you just have to glance at most dump sites to see that there is a lot of cleanup involved for the operator. When we had the acreage east of Nipawin we had dozens of RVs going by our gate every summer day and a septic system that could easily have handled their waste but 5 bucks isn't even close to what I would have wanted to let them dump.
A rest stop in Nevada has a new system for dumping tanks. They have a shallow through running across the driveway. You simply center your dump valve over the trough and open the valve. The waste runs down the trough to the sewer. When done there is a pedal you depress and fresh water washes down the trough.
I thought it was a lot better than dealing with the waste hose and all that. I'm sure there are plenty that would want to see the waste, but it doesn't bother me. I just be sure I wash my hands after dumping.
I have no idea how rain water doesn't swamp the sewage system since the drain is always open.
Quote from: belfert on March 14, 2010, 09:38:21 AM
It may only cost Flying J 50 cents for the water and sewer, but what about their other costs? That truck stop didn't just build itself. I bet keeping the dump operational probably costs as much as the water and sewer bill. Someone has to unclog it when it gets clogged. Just taking your money costs money although you're probably not buying only a dump. ... I do understand why they would charge $5 if they charge anything.
and
Quote from: bobofthenorth on March 14, 2010, 09:58:36 AM
... its more than a little disingenuous to suggest that the only cost to the dump operator is the water tax. The biggest cost to any business is labour ...
By that reasoning, a 20-oz Pepsi from the fountain should also cost $5. After all, it costs a lot just to take your money, and they had to build the C-store, install the soda fountain, etc., and pay some poor guy to clean up the sticky soda mess, and also the cup that I just crumpled up and dropped in the parking lot because I am a slob.
Maybe that's a bad example, because a Pepsi really is marked up several hundred percent. Whereas a gallon of fuel has virtually no markup whatsoever -- fuel stations make all their money in the store, not at the pump. So it really is a market dynamic, not a COGS issue; if they marked the fuel up even 10%, you would not buy it, but you are conditioned to pay 100% markups on bottled water and other items as a matter of course. And, of course, the money has to be made someplace.
Quote
... and you just have to glance at most dump sites to see that there is a lot of cleanup involved for the operator.
Well, right, and that's what I meant about bad apples. The RV dump is self-service, and users are expected to be careful and clean up after themselves. It's the handful of folks who are putting things down the drain that don't belong, not using hoses (yes, I really have seen people dumping with no hose into a dump that was meant for one), making a mess of the area and not cleaning it up or rinsing it down, etc. that are costing these operators extra time and money and getting dumps closed (or raising prices) around the country.
That being said, other than the pretty egregious problems like a plugged line due to foreign material, which probably requires a very expensive repair call, these operators are spending perhaps 5-10 minutes of labor on their dump stations per day -- if that. I've been to several where it's looked like the dump has not received any attention from management for days or maybe weeks. So you are talking about a labor cost, fully loaded, of maybe $5 per day, tops. That would easily be accommodated in a dump fee much lower than $5. By contrast, an entire 16" pizza at Flying-J costs just $10, or a Subway sandwich costs around $5, and both of those items have higher material and labor costs, for just a single item, than the dump station does for a whole day. I would also mention that employees making sandwiches are required to wear just as much protective garb as those working on the dump station -- gloves, mask, hair net, etc. -- and have to wash their hands just as rigorously.
I also understand that it costs money to build a dump. But we were talking about dump stations that, in most cases, were built years ago and have been free up to this point, so the amortization was completed long ago. And I would hasten to point out that the cost of installing a dump station at a facility that already has sewer and water (when done as part of the initial construction) is far lower than, say, installing a pizza oven.
Clearly, what Flying-J has figured out, and I do not doubt it is true, is that they won't sell enough pizzas for $20 to make it worth doubling the price, or that they'd be sending people across the highway to Petro at that markup. But that charging $5 to dump will not lose them as much business as they gain in dump revenues. It is as simple as that.
As I wrote earlier, I have no problem with this; I am not ranting against Flying-J, nor advocating a boycott, nor anything else. I'm simply saying that I, personally, will not pay $5 to dump unless I have no alternatives. Just as I will also not pay $1 for $0.02 worth of purified water in a pretty bottle. But neither will I be persuaded here that $5 to dump is barely offsetting their costs; it's not -- it's an enormous profit item, just like ice, which is what keeps your local 7-11 profitable.
Truck stops would charge for parking spaces, too, if they thought they could get away with it without driving their customers across the street. Some of them already do; I remember a TA down in the LA area someplace (Tom?) that has a fence, a gate, and a guard/toll taker. I think you got one night's credit for a fill-up of X gallons.
Neither parking spaces, nor dump stations, nor even rest rooms, are entitlements. They are all provided by these businesses as a courtesy, in the hopes that the good will it generates will bring them business. For the most part, it works -- we always try to spend money at any establishment that lets us park overnight, dump our tanks, or use the rest room. In the past, FJ's generous dumping and RV parking policies have enticed us to favor them over their rivals in the truck stop business, including their new parent, Pilot. If the new management continues to restrict these policies even further, that will clearly communicate how much (or little) they value the RV market, and we will respond accordingly.
Frankly, while we used to be able to count on FJ to have some of the most aggressive diesel pricing in any of their markets, lately we're finding consumer retail gas stations often have better prices, and even though it takes us more than three times as long to fuel at these stations, the difference on a tankful adds up to $20-$30, an amount we're not willing to leave on the table.
I know our diesel usage pales in comparison to the average owner-operator. But it is the single largest line item in our budget, well over $10,000 annually. Up until last year sometime, the lion's share of that number had been flowing to Flying-J. Now I can't remember the last time we bought fuel there; when we use their facilities nowadays, we end up buying a meal or some C-store items as our token payment.
JMO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.,
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Sean, where do you find your fuel prices? I have been a loyal Flying J customer because they used to usually have the best prices. That doesn't appear to be the case anymore.
Most of the fuel stations at any interstate exit tend have the same prices. It would be a crap shoot to try driving into town to try and find lower prices. At 8 MPG a gallon of diesel doesn't go far.
I don't drive anywhere close to as many miles as you do, but I figured if I paid 10 cents a gallons more for diesel for 500 gallons for my fall trip the total extra cost would be $50. $50 is certainly worth something, but not enough to spend a lot of time finding the absolute best price.
Quote from: belfert on March 14, 2010, 11:44:16 AM
Sean, where do you find your fuel prices?
I go to this site:
http://gasbuddy.com/ (http://gasbuddy.com/)
then choose the state, and under some states the metro area. Then click the diesel button, and I get the lowest user-reported prices in the last 24, 36, 48, or 72 hours (depending on market).
As advance planning, I use this site:
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/sbsavg.html (http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/sbsavg.html)
to determine which state(s) we will be passing through have the lowest average prices. (I select the table, paste it into a spreadsheet program, and sort on diesel price.) We have an enormous tank; we put in only enough to get us to cheaper fuel along the route, then tank up when we hit the lowest average price on our planned itinerary.
This site:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/wohdp/diesel.asp#graph_buttons (http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/wohdp/diesel.asp#graph_buttons)
is also useful for regional planning, or to see if fuel is trending up or down; if we plan to be parked for a while, we'll fuel first if trending up, afterward if trending down. When diesel is your biggest life expense, you use whatever tools you can to manage it.
I also use the web sites of all the truck stop firms to find their fuel prices, locations, and amenities such as dump stations. Since sometimes you just need any truckstop, or you need to find the independents, I also use this site:
http://www.natso.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=TruckStop_Directory1&Template=/CustomSearches/TruckStop_Directoryd.cfm (http://www.natso.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=TruckStop_Directory1&Template=/CustomSearches/TruckStop_Directoryd.cfm)
which is a brand-independent site that lists all truck stops that are members of the trade organization.
HTH,
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
I guess if they start charging for dumping, we will pay it. As we are always on the road, never in a camp ground, this is usually who we use to dump and fill. It isnt too easy to hunt for the best price and to be able to get in and out of places with a bus and a long trailer. We usually get fuel every few days, and dump as well. We never have had a problem with using visa. We spend a lot of money with fj, and they get a lot of our money besides just fuel. Having a dump, for us, is their biggest draw. I sure would rather pay to dump, than lose that option. We sure have seen plenty of people abuse the priveledge of dumping, and we usually let them know that they need to clean up, and that they are ruining it for all of us. :-\
I wonder how Flying J is enforcing the dump fee where they charge one? Hand out a key after payment? Combo lock? Honor system?
Quote from: belfert on March 14, 2010, 02:39:11 PM
I wonder how Flying J is enforcing the dump fee where they charge one? Hand out a key after payment? Combo lock? Honor system?
It's a vending machine. Read the thread I linked in my first post.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
The vending machine may be one of the reasons that they are now charging. This may provide a way for charging for a dump to be somewhat profitable while having the facility manned by a collector may not have been cost effective.
I rearly use Flying J here in Abilene for fuel, they are typically 10-40 cents higher than other suppliers. Now when on the road we usually stop for a fill, don't dump. But if we needed to, 5 bucks is pretty cheap if your tank is full of crap. ;D
One can go on and on about this or that to dump your crap, but why? It's just crap! ;)
Quote from: belfert on March 14, 2010, 11:44:16 AM
Sean, where do you find your fuel prices? I have been a loyal Flying J customer because they used to usually have the best prices. That doesn't appear to be the case anymore.
Most of the fuel stations at any interstate exit tend have the same prices. It would be a crap shoot to try driving into town to try and find lower prices. At 8 MPG a gallon of diesel doesn't go far.
I don't drive anywhere close to as many miles as you do, but I figured if I paid 10 cents a gallons more for diesel for 500 gallons for my fall trip the total extra cost would be $50. $50 is certainly worth something, but not enough to spend a lot of time finding the absolute best price.
Just Friday of this weekend I had a bus going across I-64 in Indiana (deadheading from Louisville to Cape Girardeau, MO) and at the Flying J in Evansville fuel was $3.15 a gallon. But across the street Pilot (which is generally 3 to 5 cents higher, but not lately) was $2.95 a gallon. And a 1/2 mile up the street at a "Quickie Mart" (brand not remembered) it was $2.86 now Flying J and Pilot also charge 6 to 9 cents a gallon more for credit cards while Mr. "Quickie Mart" usually does not!
I had 4 buses out going all over this weekend and I know 2 of them used over $1000 apiece in fuel ($1094 on one, and $1131 for the other) and the other 2 have not come in yet!
fuel is on the rise again big time and while we do plan for it sometimes it's hard to tell when quoting trips 3-6 months or more in advance what prices are going to be like! (but every spring when travel is at it's peak we see the large spikes then it settles down for a while!)
FWIW YMMV
;D BK ;D
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on March 14, 2010, 09:49:25 AM
Cheaper & quieter to tell her to get out! ;)
Maybe cheaper. Certainly not quieter! ;)
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on March 14, 2010, 04:17:46 PM
... now Flying J and Pilot also charge 6 to 9 cents a gallon more for credit cards while Mr. "Quickie Mart" usually does not!
I know this is not an option for you, BK, but for most of us, the credit surcharge can be avoided by fueling at the RV or car islands in front, rather than around back with the trucks. FJ used to waive the surcharge at the truck islands if you have an RV card, but no longer.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Quote from: Sean
I know this is not an option for you, BK, but for most of us, the credit surcharge can be avoided by fueling at the RV or car islands in front, rather than around back with the trucks. FJ used to waive the surcharge at the truck islands if you have an RV card, but no longer.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Right Sean, but they frown on us using the RV pumps as we are commercial (although I have done it! ;))
;D BK ;D
Quote from: Sean on March 14, 2010, 11:35:03 AM
Frankly, while we used to be able to count on FJ to have some of the most aggressive diesel pricing in any of their markets, lately we're finding consumer retail gas stations often have better prices, and even though it takes us more than three times as long to fuel at these stations, the difference on a tankful adds up to $20-$30, an amount we're not willing to leave on the table.
My sentiments, exactly. As I said earlier, I seldom buy fuel from FJ. I like the smaller stations. Typically, they offer the same price as the truck stops, or even a couple cents less, and they usually don't
charge a premium for credit cards. I don't generally have a problem getting into them. Sometimes I do (Walmarts are usually off limits because of the stupid design around their pumps).
BK, from what I've read in the trade press, perhaps you'd better start using a fuel surcharge in the charter calculation, fuel appears to have nowhere to go but up.
Customers are just going to have to accept that the cheapest rate is with a surcharge. The guy who gambles 6 months out on a price may win the charter and lose the profit to fuel rises.
Conversely, the customer also wins if fuel came down, and the charter outfit has to accept that the windfall needs to be shared.
I can't remember where those industry accepted fuel surcharges are published on the internet.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
how are they charging more for a credit card? that is against the credit card companies rules.
Quote from: desi arnaz on March 14, 2010, 04:38:45 PM
how are they charging more for a credit card? that is against the credit card companies rules.
They've been doing that for more than 3 decades! The credit cards charge a percentage for every transaction. Stations started passing that charge on to their customers when cut-throat pricing dropped profits to near zero. Started out as 3-4 cents off for cash. Now it's more like 5-10 cents, and frankly, I'm not sure that covers the transaction fees because the fees are percentage and with the cost of fuel at $4 a gallon, 3% is 12 cents and 4% is 16 cents.
Quote from: buswarrior on March 14, 2010, 04:37:46 PM
BK, from what I've read in the trade press, perhaps you'd better start using a fuel surcharge in the charter calculation, fuel appears to have nowhere to go but up.
Customers are just going to have to accept that the cheapest rate is with a surcharge. The guy who gambles 6 months out on a price may win the charter and lose the profit to fuel rises.
Conversely, the customer also wins if fuel came down, and the charter outfit has to accept that the windfall needs to be shared.
I can't remember where those industry accepted fuel surcharges are published on the internet.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
BW, I understand this and agree however... most folks chartering a bus have no clue and the minute you mention "fuel surcharge" it's the last you hear from them! (at least in our area!)
Quote from: desi arnaz
how are they charging more for a credit card? that is against the credit card companies rules.
Uh yeah, uhuh well they been doing it and getting away with it for years! Next time your out and about look at the Pilot, Love's, Flying J signs they either have a price and it says CASH price or the newest high tech signs flash back and forth between cash & credit prices!
FWIW YMMV
;D BK ;D
Quote from: gumpy
They've been doing that for more than 3 decades! The credit cards charge a percentage for every transaction. Stations started passing that charge on to their customers when cut-throat pricing dropped profits to near zero. Started out as 3-4 cents off for cash. Now it's more like 5-10 cents, and frankly, I'm not sure that covers the transaction fees because the fees are percentage and with the cost of fuel at $4 a gallon, 3% is 12 cents and 4% is 16 cents.
Craig yer right in your math, and generally I'd agree with you.
But the volume these places do in cc business is staggering and since they always have a card to swipe they get much better than 3-4%! More like 1 to 1-1/2%! I can get 3-1/2 to 4 % on less than $10,000 a month average on "high risk rate" (because we don't ever have the card to swipe!) But at the same time this is exactly why we don't accept credit cards pay me cash or check and if the bank won't take the check the Sheriff will! (only bad check we ever had was on a church from St. Louis and they finally paid up in order to avoid prosecution and a collection report.)
Again YMMV
;D BK ;D
I don't use FJ unless forced. I've found their fuel prices average $0.05 higher than others and the RV pump seems to always be busy, I just go elsewhere.
Their $5 charge is reasonable, most RV parks I've used charge $10. $5 is reasonable to me but I won't buy fuel there.
The problem is most truck stops aren't offering a cash discount. They charge a surcharge for credit cards since the price advertised is almost always the cash price.
The agreements that merchants sign to take credit cards is that they cannot charge more to take credit cards. However, they can advertise a price and then offer a cash discount. My understanding is that Flying J got in trouble with Visa because they advertised the cash price and then added a credit card surcharge. Flying J did eventually start taking Visa again, but with some changes if I remember right.
I'm not sure why truck stops charge the cash price for credit for autos only. Maybe they figure that most autos pay by credit card and they will lose the inside sales. Most truckers I have ever known didn't pay by credit card.
I never pump out back with the trucks because I don't want to pay the credit card charge. My credit card still gives 5% back on fuel purchases and they include truck stops. (A trucker would quickly hit the $30,000 limit on the 5% cash back.)
Are mixing up the commercial tax on diesel in some jurisdictions and a credit card surcharge?
Lots of places there is a tax difference between auto and truck diesel.
BK, I guess you have to estimate the charter high to protect yourself from rising fuel costs!
You may lose the charter today, and they'll come knocking moments before it runs as the competitor can't afford to run it...
hopefully!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on March 14, 2010, 05:52:29 PM
Are mixing up the commercial tax on diesel in some jurisdictions and a credit card surcharge?
Lots of places there is a tax difference between auto and truck diesel.
I know about taxes but this is different. Flying J and Loves both charge the cash price for credit card sales up front at the auto islands and also at the RV islands at Flying J. I don't know how other truck stops handle it. Taxes are a whole different matter. I know Indiana charges no state tax at the pumps for trucks as they collect through IFTA. Arizona has some wierd taxes too. Most states charge the same taxes at the pump no matter who buys the fuel.
I stopped at a Flying J in Indiana on my maiden voyage home with the bus. I pulled up to the truck pumps and then went to the fuel desk to be sure I could get taxed fuel. The clerk said yes and turned on the pump. When I went back inside and saw the other clerk she was none too happy I bought fuel and needed to pay the tax. She said there was no way to charge the tax and made me sign some form acknowledging I bought fuel without paying the tax.
The Loves station in Yuma was $9.00 to Dump last weekend! and no discount when you fill up. M&C
The truck stops that advertise two different diesel prices I always assumed meant that trucks had to pay the higher price for one of their special trucker credit systems.
The few times I stopped at truck pumps I kept getting credit card stuff on the pump screen for credit cards I never heard of. Since I had none of these it wouldn't sell me fuel on credit. I left and don't use truck pumps at all anymore.
I use auto or RV pumps only and always get the lower diesel price with my Master Card.
Flying J in AZ doesn't charge you extra for credit cards used my Visa today for 215.00 worth of fuel and dumped my tanks in Phoenix at no charge one reason I use Flying J and not Loves and yes guys I did use the RV pump and saved a few bucks
good luck
Clifford, they have never charged extra for credit cards at the RV pumps. Only at the truck pumps.
The cash price is the one they always advertise on the signs unless they changed that recently.
Here is a quote from Flying J's website:
Cash price is a 6 cent/gallon discount from credit card/regular price in the US and 3 cent/liter price discount in Canada. Cash price applies when paying for diesel fuel with cash or cash equivalent. Diesel prices are subject to change without notice. The price posted is not guaranteed for any period of time.
**
Indiana - Assumes no sales tax with ICC# (6% State Sales Tax not included).
Oregon - Assumes no state tax with PUC# (.24 cents).
I find FJ to be great as the fuel at the RV island is same as cash, no dump charges to date and up front were they let the RV,s park always feels safe.
As for the sale of FJ to Pilot that is still up in the air.
But I do believe Denny's is now taking over all the FJ restaurants.
John
Quote from: johns4104s on March 15, 2010, 08:54:35 AM
... But I do believe Denny's is now taking over all the FJ restaurants. ...
Proposed, pending approval of the bankruptcy court, scheduled for March 23rd:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-04/philly-papers-flying-j-tavern-nortel-spansion-bankruptcy.html (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-04/philly-papers-flying-j-tavern-nortel-spansion-bankruptcy.html)
More discussion:
http://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/the-truck-stops-here/91626-pilots-plans-for-flying-j-restaurants.html (http://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/the-truck-stops-here/91626-pilots-plans-for-flying-j-restaurants.html)
(Old) discussion of the merger of Pilot and Flying-J truck stop operations:
http://www.truckstopusa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26930 (http://www.truckstopusa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26930)
There is a forum for
everything on the Internet. If you think we're chatty about FJ over here, just surf around the long-haul trucker forums for a little bit to get a different perspective.
For those that don't follow him, Nick Russell posted a blog entry about the brouhaha on his Gypsy Journal blog:
http://gypsyjournal.net/blog/2010/03/15/how-dare-they/ (http://gypsyjournal.net/blog/2010/03/15/how-dare-they/)
somehow, our blog managed to get mentioned in there, too, even though we have not discussed the FJ dump situation.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Did the Flying J sale of the truck stops not include the restaurants? I'm wondering why they would even mention this to the bankruptcy court if Pilot now owns the truck stops?
Maybe Denny's will be a step up in quality of the cuisine. We stopped at a Flying J and ate breakfast once and it wasn't that great.
Quote from: belfert on March 15, 2010, 10:43:07 AM
Did the Flying J sale of the truck stops not include the restaurants? I'm wondering why they would even mention this to the bankruptcy court if Pilot now owns the truck stops? ...
Remember that Flying-J is still in Chapter 11. If you read the article I linked, it says "
... Although the company believes it's in the ordinary course of business not requiring court approval, Flying J wants the bankruptcy judge to bless the proposed lease with Spartanburg, South Carolina-based Denny's. ..."
While the restaurant lease may be "ordinary course of business," other things are not as clear-cut. Pilot can not unilaterally decide what it will or will not do with FJ locations until the unit emerges from Chapter 11 with the full blessing of the court. This news item from October details more of the structure of the combined entity: http://www.csnews.com/csn/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1004020901
(http://www.csnews.com/csn/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1004020901)
This is a huge deal. FJ has 164 restaurant locations, and Denny's will be paying a quarter million apiece for the existing equipment and assets. On top of that will be another average of a quarter mil apiece in upgrades, and then 7-8% of gross sales. When you start talking that kind of money, it is no wonder they want the judge to "bless" it -- you don't want someone else coming along and crying "Foul!" by filing briefs with the court.
FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
I thought Pilot already owned the Flying J truck stops. Last fall it was announced the new ownership was supposed to start Jan 1. It looks like the new date is March 31st. I tried to read through the court docket, but with over 3,000 filings I gave up.
If the merger isn't a done deal i can see why Flying J wanted court approval. I thought the deal was done on Jan 1 as originally planned.
http://rvnewsservice.com/?p=428 (http://rvnewsservice.com/?p=428)
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
You can add LOVES truck stop they are charging $5 to dump too.
Quote from: BusCrazyinFL on July 08, 2010, 05:08:40 AM
You can add LOVES truck stop they are charging $5 to dump too.
Is this at all of them? Does mean that Love's will actually spend money to maintain the dump stations now?
There is a relatively new Loves truck stop in Fernley, NV. It opened I think four or five years ago. The first year the dump station was great. Second year it was already looking kinda of ratty. Third year it only accepted sewage a little at a time. By last fall I don't believe the air hose worked and the whole dump station apparatus looked like someone drove over it, dragged it around the parking lot, and then someone remounted it.
FWIW A couple of my drivers bought fuel & dumped last week @ several Flying J's and paid for dumping while paying for the fuel. It was only $3 for the dump charge! Not bad at all in my opinion.
Same time one of the other drivers paid $25 to dump in Panama City, FL @ Kinkaid Bus lines and they would ONLY ACCEPT CASH for payment!
;D BK ;D