So when you are ready to start up your engine and its not been started for 12hes/1day/1month.3months etc. Should you start it in a way that it turns over several times first? Then allow it to start? This allowing the oil to pressure up and be present everywhere before it fires and takes off.
The reason I am asking is that my engine starts on the first revolution and I dont know if oil is everywhere on the first revolution or not? Also I am told that the MCI,s were originally set up to have a initial delay before firing just for the reason for pressurizing the oil.
I here of lots of 8v92T,s with crank shaft problems I want to be sure I am doing everything I can to look after my engine.
John
John, the oil galley always has oil in it on a 8v92 it never drains back to the pan and the only time they have a crank problem is when they are overhauled and the line bore is off 2 strokes have a tuff a** crank very ,very seldom will one break crank failure is caused by something else 99% of the time
good luck
I'm sure if you wanted to crank it over without firing/starting until you had oil pressure you could wire in a momentary switch that held the fuel shut-off closed, however at start-up and without load there isn't that much load on the crank bearings.
With my situation, a bus friend of mine hypothesized that the broken crank was a result of the bus company's improper use of starting fluid when trying to start up a cold engine. Instead of cranking the engine over a few times so that the starting fluid could be equally distributed across all cylinders, they sprayed once, reaching only once cylinder, which allowed isolated (thus, uneven) combustion. This in turn caused incredible torque to one end of the crank, and not the other.
Hope this helps!
2 Strokes, while not having a lot of oil pressure, pumps a massive amount of oil. I wouldn't worry too much about cold start. If you'd like, just hold the kill lever on the governor for 5 seconds (if it is a mechanical engine) then release.
More importantly- once the oil pressure is reached, you should then increase the engine rpm up to the fast idle of about 900rpm for warm up. On any Diesel, idling is the hardest on the engine since that's where the most vibration occurs that is being transmitted through the bearings when the engine has the lowest oil pressure. Good Luck, TomC
I have a pre-oiler on My engine! When the master switch is turned on power is applied to a timer that activates the pump and when oil pressure is up I start the engine. The timer is adjustable so there is a shut down delay to provide oil pressure to the turbo for both lubrication and to prevent coking of oil in the bearing housing. I do not have a turbo so in My case it is a mote point. All large industrial engines read industrial power plants and large marine diesels have pre-oil pumps! The timer shuts the pump off after starting the engine. Not real cheap but will keep bearings floating for initial start up and will save turbo's from early death! John L
if you use a good oil like synthedic rotella you wont have to worry about problems like that
Quote from: reelnative on March 12, 2010, 09:09:13 AM
if you use a good oil like synthedic rotella you wont have to worry about problems like that
Umm, Rotella Synthetic is not available in SAE-40, as required for Detroit two-strokes. Even Shell's own publications do not recommend anything but their conventional SAE-40 and SAE-50 for these engines.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
doesnt it come in a 5w-40
Quote from: reelnative on March 12, 2010, 09:52:17 AM
doesnt it come in a 5w-40
5W-40 is not an approved viscosity for Detroit two-strokes. Only straight 40-weight, per Detroit specifications, available here:
www.detroitdiesel.com/pdf/vocations/Lube-Oil-Fuel-Requirements.pdf (http://www.detroitdiesel.com/pdf/vocations/Lube-Oil-Fuel-Requirements.pdf)
We have discussed this extensively in the past:
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=10774.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=10774.0)
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=14645.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=14645.0)
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=13734.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=13734.0)
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=13689.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=13689.0)
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=3580.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=3580.0)
...and many more. My search just on this board turned up pages and pages of results.
I strongly recommend you educate yourself on this topic if you are running one of these engines. Perhaps more importantly, if you are going to make recommendations here yourself that contravene those of both the engine manufacturer and the lubricant manufacturer, you had better be able to back up the tribology.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
well im sorry that I hit a nerve of yours sean, my comm on oil was just that, and you or anyone elese can run what they want in there rig, I myself have run rotella in all my diesels , cummins, perkins, izuzu, vp maroiti, powerstroke, and a few others im sure I cant rem,ive run rotella in all of them and never have I had an oil related issue, I own 4 dump trucks 1 bobcat 2 backhoes 2 dodge rams with diesels and a jeep liberty with a diesel in it, I have logged in well over 2million miles of driving with rotella and 10s of thousands of eqp hrs with it also, so for me I think ill stick with the rotella
I have besides My coach a John Deere 440 with a dd 2-53 and have never run anything but 15-40 rotella in it and it managed to clear 75 acres of heavily wooded property! It was certainly not big enough for the job and was always over stressed. It still survives and runs quite well. The US ARMY runs mil multi grade oil in the Detroit's in the middle east where it is hotter than hell and the units are beat by the operators. My son has served 3 years in the sand box and maintains heavy equipment including the HEMET which is a large wrecker with a 8V92 and a Allison for power. I am not suggesting running multi grade oil but I wonder about some of the it will kill Your engine experts opinions! After all sometimes a expert is a drip under pressure , or someone thousands of miles away saying just turn that potentiometer and that will fix it! I for one am not convinced that single weight is necessary. The bit about the rod bearings not getting a rest because of the two cycle bit is simply not logical. Oh well run what You brung guys. I suffered for years with stuck valves in aircraft engines because of the crappy ancient oil specifications for aircraft oil. I switched to ordinary car oil and then to Mobil one syn when continental started delivering engines from the factory with the same damm oil in them! Makes one wonder sometimes about the real truth. Regards John L
In the famous words of Yogi Berra
"This is like deja vu all over again."
;D ;D
Removed
Quote from: reelnative on March 12, 2010, 11:21:30 AM
well im sorry that I hit a nerve of yours sean,
You didn't hit any of my nerves. But lots of people read these forums, and an otherwise neophyte might read your post as if there was something behind it, and they deserve to hear, first, the recommendations of their engine manufacturer.
Quote
my comm on oil was just that, and you or anyone elese can run what they want in there rig,
Well, that's not how it reads, at least to my eye:
"if you use a good oil like synthedic rotella ..."
the implication being that non-synthetic Rotella is a "bad oil" or "not as good" or whatever, even though Shell themselves recommend the non-synthetic product for Detroit two-strokes
"... you wont have to worry about problems like that"
Again, the implication being that Rotella Synthetic, in a viscosity not approved for Detroit two-strokes, will alleviate the concern about journal bearings on a dry crank, and is, therefore, somehow better than the high-quality conventional oils most of us run.
You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but newcomers deserve to hear that it is not the consolidated wisdom of tribologists in general.
Quote
I myself have run rotella in all my diesels , cummins, perkins, izuzu, vp maroiti, powerstroke, and a few others im sure I cant rem,ive run rotella in all of them and never have I had an oil related issue, I own 4 dump trucks 1 bobcat 2 backhoes 2 dodge rams with diesels and a jeep liberty with a diesel in it, I have logged in well over 2million miles of driving with rotella and 10s of thousands of eqp hrs with it also, so for me I think ill stick with the rotella
Well, most of those engines and vehicles are four-strokes, which is not what we were discussing.
I run Rotella myself. But I use the recommended straight 40-weight, which does not come in synthetic.
The diatribes of anecdotal evidence are unpersuasive -- everyone has stories of things working just great, for them. There are boats running around the Caribbean even as we speak using distilled water in the coolant loop, rather than anti-freeze. Anecdotally, they have thousands of hours of experience that says antifreeze is not needed. That experience becomes meaningless the minute the engine is in freezing conditions -- conditions those operators never experience.
It's quite possible you've been running 15W-40 or whatever else for years without deleterious effects. I don't doubt it. But Detroit has billions, not millions, of miles of experience with these engines, and they make their recommendations for good reason. I, for one, will stick with them, notwithstanding anecdotal evidence that the recommendations might be overly cautious.
I'm not telling anyone to follow suit. I just want any visitors to this thread to hear both sides of the story, from which they can draw their own conclusions. FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Thank you, Sean. Excellently put.
Now, if only I can get ABC Bus (just down the street from here) to understand the ash requirements of 2-stroke oils! I don't think they believe me when I tell them about the 1% maximum for CF-2 oils, and I'm not comfortable having them change my oil until they agree to use what I want, not what they have a drum of in the back of their workshop.
John
Quote from: Iceni John on March 12, 2010, 12:59:25 PM
Now, if only I can get ABC Bus (just down the street from here) to understand the ash requirements of 2-stroke oils! I don't think they believe me when I tell them about the 1% maximum for CF-2 oils, ...
Sad to say, but shops with any knowledge whatsoever of two-strokes and their peculiarities are now a rarity.
As far as ash content, recent changes have required all oil manufacturers to lower the ash content to less than .1%. There is, of course, still older product in the distribution channel -- I still find, for example, Delo-400 at Napa with higher ash levels. But anything coming out now is compliant, as long as it is CF-2. So if your shop is getting their 40-weight new from a reputable distributor, you should not have to worry about the ash.
And thanks to Clifford for alerting me to the ash content change; I myself had been recommending against Delo-400 until he pointed this out to me (Delo-100 has always been compliant).
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
aaa the great oil wars, sean the oil that rotella recommends for our 2 strokes is a really outdated cf2 api cat that was superceded way back when, and if you kept up with your oil weekley guide you would know that any oil with a newer api rating is usable and or better then the last api rating it replaced, i think the newest one came out about 2 to 4 yrs ago and it was an api rating cj4 usable in all and I say all diesels 2 or 4 stroke before that one it was a ci4 rating, I know the 4 in the rating stands for 4 stroke but it can be used in 2 stroke also because they all now are under 1 ash, not to be confused with 2 cycle tho, also if your driving in any weather under 30 degrees detroit says to run a 15-40 not strait 40 or 50.
there is a lot of good reading out there about oils and with the new ultra low sulfer fuel out now you really might want to stop running that oil with only a cf2 api rating, heres a link to rotella theres a bit of good reading here http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/oem_spec_home.html (http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/oem_spec_home.html)
hows this for a test too, im gonna drop the oil in my 871 in a few days, it only has 34,000mi on it, it starts on the first revolution every time, ill fill her up with rotella 5w-40 synth and well do us a test to see if she comes apart or not and ill also do an oil anal on it at 7,500 and we all can see how its doing and if ill be able to do another 15,000 on that bad rotella synthedic
you might want to read this too your cf2 oil will stop being made this yr so your gonna have to start using one of the the better oils out there with a better api rating http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001637175.cfm?x=b11,0,w (http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001637175.cfm?x=b11,0,w)
http://www.shell.com/home/PlainPageServlet?FC=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/ask_our_expert/app_askourexpert_faq.html (http://www.shell.com/home/PlainPageServlet?FC=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/ask_our_expert/app_askourexpert_faq.html)
Good info reelnative, Thanks for providing the information which is crucial for our DD's.
Paul
Quote from: reelnative on March 12, 2010, 03:22:11 PM
... if you kept up with your oil weekley guide you would know that any oil with a newer api rating is usable and or better then the last api rating it replaced, i think the newest one came out about 2 to 4 yrs ago and it was an api rating cj4 usable in all and I say all diesels 2 or 4 stroke
Yes, CF-2 was superseded long ago, for certain applications. For series 92, it is still the only allowable rating. BTW, the -2 is for two-stroke cycle engines, and the -4 is for four-stroke. You should not use a Cx-4 oil in a two-stroke unless it also carries the Cx-2 rating -- well, except for the fact that the rating is being discontinued. More in a moment. So, no, a CJ-4 (without any other ratings) is NOT recommended in a Detroit 92.
Quote
... 2 stroke also because they all now are under 1 ash, not to be confused with 2 cycle ,,,
Umm, pray tell, what is the difference between "two stroke" and "two cycle"? Also, note that sulfated ash content is not the only criterion for the CF-2 rating, and, in fact, Detroit's specs are tighter on sulfated ash than CF-2; IOTW, there were CF-2 oils that did not meet the DD spec for the series 92.
Quote
tho, also if your driving in any weather under 30 degrees detroit says to run a 15-40 not strait 40 or 50.
Please show me where Detroit "says to run a 15-40" normally in a series 92. I've got the latest pubs from Detroit and MTU and they all still say only single-weight. There is an exception allowing 15-40 or straight 30-weight for startability -- not under 30° as you suggest, but rather from 0°F to -25°F (below freezing if no starting aids are available) -- but the note immediately following says "These oils must be replaced with monograde SAE 40 lubricants as soon as ambient conditions permit." IOTW, as soon as it is above 0° outside, you need to change back to SAE-40. Between 0° and 32° preheating is preferable to changing from SAE-40. It is on page 2-4 of the publication I linked in my very first response.
Quote
there is a lot of good reading out there about oils and with the new ultra low sulfer fuel out now you really might want to stop running that oil with only a cf2 api rating, heres a link to rotella theres a bit of good reading here http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/oem_spec_home.html (http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/oem_spec_home.html)
OK, so when I go to that link, and I scroll down to Shell's recommendation for the 92 series, it shows only the following:
Shell Rotella® T1 SAE 40, 50
Shell Rotella® T1 SAE 30 (Below 32° ambient)
Which, I'm pretty sure, is exactly what I said above: "Even Shell's own publications do not recommend anything but their conventional SAE-40 and SAE-50 for these engines"
Quote
hows this for a test too, im gonna drop the oil in my 871 in a few days, it only has 34,000mi on it, it starts on the first revolution every time, ill fill her up with rotella 5w-40 synth and well do us a test to see if she comes apart or not and ill also do an oil anal on it at 7,500 and we all can see how its doing and if ill be able to do another 15,000 on that bad rotella synthedic
As I said earlier, your anecdotal evidence is just that. Anecdotes are not science.
Quote
you might want to read this too your cf2 oil will stop being made this yr so your gonna have to start using one of the the better oils out there with a better api rating http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001637175.cfm?x=b11,0,w (http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001637175.cfm?x=b11,0,w)
http://www.shell.com/home/PlainPageServlet?FC=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/ask_our_expert/app_askourexpert_faq.html (http://www.shell.com/home/PlainPageServlet?FC=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/ask_our_expert/app_askourexpert_faq.html)
I believe those articles were already linked in some of the threads to which I referred you earlier. Yes, we all know already that API has discontinued the CF-2 rating. Virtually every lubricant manufacturer has announced that they will continue to produce oils to the old standard for those of us who need them. MTU and Detroit are working on a separate mark to indicate to us that the oil is compliant (anyone know where this stands? Tom C? Clifford?). The fact that the API can no longer dedicate resources to a limited market for an obsolete engine does not, by itself, mean that those of us still running that engine should just throw the book out the window -- the reasoning behind Detroit's recommendations still stands.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
http://www.conocophillipslubricants.com/documents/76/fleet_commercial_engine_oils/76%20T5X%20Heavy%20Duty%20Monogrades%20TDS.pdf (http://www.conocophillipslubricants.com/documents/76/fleet_commercial_engine_oils/76%20T5X%20Heavy%20Duty%20Monogrades%20TDS.pdf)
This is the straight 40W that ABC Bus has a drum of, and they (of course) say it's what they've always used for 2-strokes. 1% ash is borderline to me, but I can't find 10 gallons of Delo 100 around here for less than about $15/gal, so I guess it's T5X for me. Hrumph.
Junkman42 (are there 41 other junkmen out there?): what make is your pre-oiler? Tell me more. Because I do not, and probably never will, drive my bus much or often, a pre-oiler may be good for me. When I worked for British Rail (RIP), we ran them for at least a minute in the Sulzer 12LDA28 engines in our locos, summer or winter. Think of it as foreplay before the real thing.
John
John, the T5X appears to be completely within specs. I would not worry about it.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Thank you Sean.
It isn't easy...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
here is a link with a lot of diff oil ash and flash point numbers, in both strait and multi visc.
http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_oil_facts.html (http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_oil_facts.html)
as to your question about the diff of a 2 stroke and a 2 cycle motor sean, a 2 stroke motor makes a compression fire stroke every second time round , has a oil pan full of oil and an oil pump to pump oil thruout the motor to lube it,now a 2 cycle motor is a motor that has a closed crank case, uses a pre mix of oil and gas for fuel and lubercation has no oil pan or sup and uses crankcase pressure to send unburnt fuel thru recurlating lines to lub the crank and other such parts,
ok, that's enough.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
;D
This is "as of 2009" - I don't know of any later bulliten - FWIW
2.2 TWO-STROKE CYCLE ENGINES
The lubricating oil requirements for On-Highway applications of Series 53, Series 71, and Series
92 two-stoke engines are outlined in this section.
See Figure 2-2 for the API Symbol of two-stroke cycle engine oils.
Figure 2-2 API Symbol: Two-Stroke Cycle Engine Oils
Lubricating oil for On-Highway applications for two-stroke cycle engines must meet the
following requirements:
□ 1.0% Ash Maximum as measured by ASTM D 874
□ 7.0 TBN minimum as measured by ASTM D 2896
□ 700 ppm zinc minimum as measured by ASTM D 5185
At ambient temperatures below freezing (0°C [32°F]), sufficient starter cranking speed may not
be achieved to start the engine with SAE 40 grade oils. Where starting aids are not available
or at very cold temperatures (-18 to -32°C [0 to -25°F]) even if starting aids are available,
the use of multigrade SAE 15W-40 or monograde lubricant SAE 30 will improve startability.
These lubricants must possess a HT/HS Viscosity (measured by ASTM D 4741 or equivalent)
of 3.7 cP minimum. These oils must be replaced with monograde SAE 40 lubricants as soon as
ambient conditions permit.
http://www.ddcsn.com/cps/rde/xbcr/ddcsn/DDC-SVC-BRO-0001.pdf (http://www.ddcsn.com/cps/rde/xbcr/ddcsn/DDC-SVC-BRO-0001.pdf)
OK - NOW it's enough - LOL
If comparing what the military does with its' engines, is not a comparison of what we should do with our engines. First, the military only requires an engine has a life of 2000 hours before overhaul (the equivalent of 100,000 miles). With the use of good CF-2 rated straight weight sae 40, you should get 5 times that mileage out of your engine. I know, I had both a 8V-92TA and a 6V-92TA in trucks, and both had their first overhauls at 500,000 miles. But-yous can runs whats yous wants. Good Luck, TomC
That DD bulletin linked by Niles muddies the water a bit with this sentence in paragraph 3.6:
Multigrade oils meeting API CF-2 may be used in Detroit Diesel On-Highway two-stroke cycle
products, provided they also meet military specification MIL-PRF-2104H. Contact Detroit Diesel
for further guidance.
I've never seen a multigrade oil with a CF-2 classification(doesn't mean it doesn't exist), but perhaps this is what the military is using?
Bob
Did you get your question answered John? ;)
I feel a little better if there is oil always in the galleys (were ever they are) but I think as recommended on a cold engine I may turn the engine over a few time with the lever pushed allowing some pressure to build before start up.
Thanks to all.
John
I just found a plug in the back lodged between the skin and the bumper. I thought it was a service light plug, turns out to be an engine warmer. Now I plug it in for 2 hours and the girl starts on the 1st turn vs the great white smoke out. M&C ;D
On the electric consumption front..
another excellent job for your infrared thermometer.
Shoot the block and see just how little time you need to leave the block heater plugged in. It doesn't have to reach max temp capable, it just needs to be warm enough for a clean start.
No need to give the electric company any more of your beverage funds than absolutely necessary!
There are different watt ratings of block heaters, so everyone can't readily exchange times for given outside temperatures.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: niles500 on March 12, 2010, 11:53:33 PM
This is "as of 2009" - I don't know of any later bulliten - FWIW
...
http://www.ddcsn.com/cps/rde/xbcr/ddcsn/DDC-SVC-BRO-0001.pdf (http://www.ddcsn.com/cps/rde/xbcr/ddcsn/DDC-SVC-BRO-0001.pdf)
While doing research for a question in another thread, I discovered that DDC has modified the above-referenced publication and removed all two-stroke information from it.
It now refers you to the following publication, on the MTU site (Detroit sold the two-stroke business to MTU):
http://www.mtu-online.com/fileadmin/fm-dam/mtu-global/pdf/valuecare/A001061_33E.pdf (http://www.mtu-online.com/fileadmin/fm-dam/mtu-global/pdf/valuecare/A001061_33E.pdf)
Not trying to re-start this thread -- just wanted to update the links, for anyone who comes along by doing an archive search (as I just did).
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
It's fortunate that I printed the previous version of DD's fuels/lubes specifications, because I cannot find any specific reference to our beloved old 2-strokes in this new MTU publication. It is definitely Euro-centric, listing plenty of products not available outside the EU, plus some others from Asia and elsewhere. Imagine going to your local friendly Detroit dealer and asking them for some Fascination of Power (on page 42)! Seriously though, I do not see any reference to Delo 100 or Rotella T, or to any other 2-stroke oils still available in USA; there is a fleeting mention of CF-2 at the bottom of page 5 that implies that such oils are Standard quality, not Higher quality (for what that's worth).
I guess we're now the unloved orphans of MTU, or maybe the oily-black sheep of MTU's flock. Apart from giant marine powerplants, I cannot think of any 2-strokes still in common production (except for the US military's) around the rest of the world. Foden FD6, Commer TS2 and Napier Deltic are even older than Detroits, so we're now the last of the last.
John
John, I think there is some synchronization disconnect between the DDCSN site and the MTU site. I think the DDC two-stroke information is already removed from the DDCSN publication, but not yet added to the MTU publication.
In any case, the 2005 version, which is relevant enough for most of us, is still available on the DDC site, here:
http://www.detroitdiesel.com/pdf/vocations/Lube-Oil-Fuel-Requirements.pdf (http://www.detroitdiesel.com/pdf/vocations/Lube-Oil-Fuel-Requirements.pdf)
There were minor updates in 2009 relating to bio fuels and ULSD, but nothing significant in the lube oil section.
BTW, AFAIK, railway locomotive engines are also still two-stroke.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Quote from: Sean on May 10, 2010, 10:39:53 AM
BTW, AFAIK, railway locomotive engines are also still two-stroke.
Nobody likes 2-strokes any more, even railroads. EMD's venerable 567, 645 and 710 engines have now been replaced by their H-series 4-stroke which powers the SD90 and others; GE has always used 4-strokes in their locos, Alco is no more (except in India!), and Fairbanks-Morse also is history. However there are still plenty of 2-stroke EMDs still to be found working hard, especially in the west and on secondary railroads, and in far-flung outposts of heavy haulage such as Mauretania and Australia where the longest trains in the world are run.
Yup, we're the end of the line (so to speak).
John
Quote from: Iceni John on May 10, 2010, 12:21:40 PM
Nobody likes 2-strokes any more, even railroads. EMD's venerable 567, 645 and 710 engines have now been replaced by their H-series 4-stroke which powers the SD90 and others;
John, I believe the SD70 is EMD's only currently sold freight locomotive. That's powered by the 16-710G3C-T2, which is an EPA Tier-2 two-stroke.
The SD90 is out of production, ironically because they do not have a Tier-2 version of the H series engine. Also, AFAIK, UP is the only road in the US to ever buy any, and they are phasing them out.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
John-I beg to differ on the 2 stroke EMD's. In Los Angeles, Metro Link just took delivery of new EMD locomotives that are powered by 16V-710's with a second smaller Diesel for electrical service in the passenger cars. I was in Albuquerque, NM last year for the Camping World RV get together, and they too had new EMD's with 16V-710's running their version of light rail service.
Fairbanks-Morse opposed piston engines up to inline 12 cylinder are still being made-mostly in dual fuel natural gas operation for both generation and pumping.
The world's largest Diesel engines are 2 stroke engines running in overseas container ships (38" bore by 98" stroke)-and they are the most fuel efficient engines made in the world.
Don Fairchild can bring most turbo'd 2 stroke Detroits up to Tier 2 level with his kits. Good Luck, TomC