:'(
Well I regret to inform you all that my motor, despite spending all this money and time, may either have to wait for a year or a miracle from Heaven.
After they rebuilt the turbo, blower and put new injectors in, it seems to be blowing more oil out the drain tubes and it appears it may be developing a symptom that someone else has just been inquiring about in another post that gives me the willies. It appears that I have pressure in the cooling system, suggesting a possible head gasket or a cracked head. I remember when I saw that clogged aftercooler that I thought this motor must have gotten mighty hot.
So I'm debating having them pull the heads (about $300) and get a real look at what we're dealing with.
My guess is Don Fairchild is leaning back in his chair right about now saying "I had a feeling". It wasn't that I wasn't listening Don, it was that my pockets aren't as deep as the companies that usually own and run them and I had to see if it was possibly something simpler. What irks me is the darn thing has 60 lbs of oil pressure at full throttle! How can it be shot???
Kits, main bearings, and magnafluxing and then possibly replacing/rebuilding the heads is gonna be a big bill, one that would wreck our chances of traveling at all this summer and I won't do that to my family
The good side of this is I have an excellent running 8V71 already in my bus and I have some good possibilities in the music biz that could allow this to happen.
I have made the decision that "IF" I do this and that's a big if I'm gonna do it all the way.
Friends, don't let anyone tell you a repower from an 8V71 to an 8V92 is gonna be under $10K? It just don't work out that way if you can't do it all yourself.
I plan to go there tomorrow and video the pressure in the cooling system, the oil from the airbox drains, and I'm going to remove one airbox access port cover at a time while it's running to see if all the cylinders are contributing to the excessive oil problem or just one or two. I hope to video that as well. I'll upload tomorrow and get your input on what you see in the video.
I'm still a lucky guy... It is gonna be hard to break it to wifey later tonite though. She so believed in me and the decisions I have made... that girl stood by me every step of the way.
I gotta keep reminding myself to count my blessings...
Rick
That sux Rick - I feel your pain. We went through a similar ordeal just over a year ago now. For a while there it seemed like every day it got worse and the eventual bill just kept getting bigger. We didn't really have any choice but to keep pouring more money into the engine we had. At least you still have some options that let you keep using the bus. But I'm sure that doesn't make the pain any less painful.
Rick...sorry to here this, I was hoping for the best. :-[
David Benck
Run the 8v71. Sure a 8v92 would be great but memories are better. Ten years from now what pushed you around won't matter all that much. My bus is still waiting for repairs that where supposed to happen before I took my big trip. My children are growing up and leaving, when I find myself all alone and wishing for the "good-old-days", I will finish it.
The great thing about having a perfectly good engine in the bus already is that you can still use it. As to the 8V-92TA, bring it home and rebuild it your self! Since you're not in a hurry, you can do it on your own time schedule and learn as you go. Just try to find someone that could check up on your work as you progress. Good Luck, TomC
"Friends, don't let anyone tell you a repower from an 8V71 to an 8V92 is gonna be under $10K? It just don't work out that way if you can't do it all yourself."
And a conversion to an 8V92 gets you what---?
Fred Mc GMC PD4106
So what is wrong with a 71 any way ???. Enjoy what you got. M&C
Rick -
I think you're going to find, if you take a deep breath and ponder, that Barn Owl's comment above is dead on for this summer's planned trip.
As some others also have said, you've got a good running engine now, so enjoy the trip and worry about the 92 when you get back.
I used to put 80,000 miles a year on MC8s & 9s with the same powertrain you've got - treat it right and it's unbreakable. Oh, sure, you climb 6% grades sitting on the governor in 2nd gear, but so what? Lots of 18-wheelers will be pulling the same grades at the same speed, so you won't be alone.
War story: On the run from Fresno, CA to Las Vegas, the difference between the 8V71- and 8V92-powered coaches was all of 30 minutes and 25 gallons of fuel. The 92s were "faster", but sucked more diesel in the process. The price you pay for 2-stroke HP & Torque.
Don't let the "Tim Allen Syndrome" spoil a good trip for your family this year!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Well it's official...In order to put this in my bus I would have to have it totally gone through. We opened the airbox access port and there was alot of oil in there. Way too much oil for a motor that hasn't been run an hour yet. The good news is we pulled the thermostats abd the was no bubbling so the heads are probably fine.
Now, the question is do I put it away for the future and fix it as we go or just try and get out of this thing with as little pain as possible (which is still alot of pain).There are some deeper issues/philosophies involved in this that just aren't clear to me now but I'm sure if I'm patient the deeper stuff will become clearer.
It's the whole "why are we in such a hurry"? questions and "just why did you buy this bus"? kind of questions.
The good news: My wife, bless her heart, is still in my corner and supportive of however I decide to go on this. And, Gumpy may have found me the mother of all deals on some house batteries. WOOO HOOO!
Don I'll be giving you a call later today in regards to what this thing is realistically worth as it sits.
Thanks to all of you that helped me with this, You guys are something else.
Rick
Rick,
I've been following your experience with the '92 and I'm sorry to hear the direction its taken recently. I, too have thought it would be fun to get a hyped up 892 instead of the 871. And I'd have to say this damn 871 pulling a toad is faster than my in-laws and buddies with their chipped powerstrokes and duramaxes pulling campers. We maintain a steady 72 mph most of the time. Of course its 15 mph up the 6% grades in the mountains, but that only takes about 20 minutes out of the entire day. Unless you go up to 500hp I doubt you're going to see a whole lot of difference? Of course a -9 weighs more than my -5 does......
Any engine can fail any number of ways; but the sense I get is the 71 series is more durable than the 92 series. Less HP but really, who cares? We still get there in plenty of time. In my case, on multi day trips, we always arrive at the campground before the pickups pulling trailers do. How is your 871 set up? What injectors does it have? Maybe stop the bleeding on the 92 and turbo the 71 as Tom C did?
Fred
I agree with Fred. Last spring we changed our 8V71, installing a fresh 8V71 in our MC-8. Our reasons for not switching to a 92 were as follws:
Less chance of overheating problems
Easiest swap
Have plenty of power (we do not drive in mountains very often)
No electronics
This is "our way", YMMV Jack
You guys are kidding yourself thinking a 8v71 is more durable than a 8v92 heating problems are caused by hp nothing else 92 series work great in a Eagle with no heating problems.
Cooling a 8v92 is a MCI problem not the 8v92 the factory installed 8v92 in a MCI is not a problem keeping cool in the one I have been around
good luck
Quote from: luvrbus on March 06, 2010, 06:19:04 AM
... 92 series work great in a Eagle with no heating problems.
Cooling a 8v92 is a MCI problem not the 8v92 the factory installed 8v92 in a MCI is not a problem keeping cool in the one I have been around
That may be true, but neither Rick, Jack, nor Fred own Eagles, nor do they own MCIs with factory installed 8v92s. They own MC5s, MC8s and MC9s which all
came with 8v71s and so moving up to the bigger engine would most certainly add cooling issues for all of them.
That is still not a problem Craig set a 8v92 at 350 to 400 hp it will stay cool and have more power and get better mileage than a 8v71 with a turbo at 350 hp.
I know I did that with my MCI 8 you turn a 8v71 up to 304 hp from the factory setting of 277 hp and keep your foot in it that puppy will heat up with the best
good luck
Hey guys,
thanks for all your input/kind wishes.
In regards to the cooling discussion. I am quite sure I will/would not have had any cooling issues with the 8V92 because I, like you Craig, rebuilt my cooling system and put the larger 8v92 radiators and the smaller pulley in. But man if you have a lack of cooling the wet sleeves certainly are less forgiving because like Clifford pointed out that added HP leads to more heat, which lessens your reaction time between overheat and damage. But that's why we have hi temp shutdowns right? Personally, I wouldn't want to have either motors in the mountains in an MCI with leaky door and scroll seals and partially blocked radiators.
If a non- turbo'd motor loses 4% of it's power every 1000 ft above sea level you're asking alot of a 275 HP normally aspirated motor to clear Eisenhower pass in Colorado so you better give her some good, cooldrinking water and lots of it.
As far as the update. Here's what I know or what I think I know.
There is alot of oil getting either:
A. past the rings and into my airbox
B. oil from long ago dripping down from the cracks and crevices of the airbox that you can't see from outside the motor.
So, after a heartfelt talk with Don yesterday (Clifford feel free to let that great knowledge of yours be heard here)
I am currently on a search for a reasonable dyno to find out once and for all if putting a load on this thing will clear up the smoking and leaking issues. We haven't ruled out a blown head gasket/cracked head yet but there are no bubbles in either thermostat housing at idle so I am leaning on Clifford's thoughts to the other poster that it may be the water pump which will have to be changed because of clearance issues anyway.The cummins shop 5 miles from my house wanted $3k to dyno my motor and interstate diesel wanted $1200. That is an awful lot of money to find out this thing is in need of major expensive repairs. So, anybody here know of someplace within say 250 miles of St Paul Minnesota with a dyno who would do it for say, $500-700 dollars?
I think the biggest nagging issue for me in this is two of the main guys (Clifford and Don) that we all rely on for info say it is a good chance that it will clear up and two guys in the area that Minnesota busnuts rely on JD at C&J coach and my mechanic Curt both feel that it probably won't. So, I am a bit stuck here but time has a way of bringing clarity so I am sitting back, taking a breath, and trying to really see what ALL my options are.
It is a bit unsettling to me that my mechanic seems very interested in buying from me a motor that he says needs, when all is said and done around $14K to have it ready for install, but let's face it, it's mostly labor that kills you with these things. And he is taking into consideration the retrofit as well. I am also looking at other selling possibilities and maybe just keeping it to see how our finances feel in a few months or a year from now
So the fat lady is warming up backstage but she hasn't sung yet.
The other possibly bigger issue/question for me resulted from all of your posts about we buy these buses to relax and watch the world go racing by and them of course we feel the need to catch up and race too.
That issue may be a long time getting straight in my head. I think one of the biggest wrenches in the works for me is I started my 8V71 at 34 degrees yesterday after not running her for a month so I have an awesome motor in my bus and most other folks are repowering becuase they lost a motor. That's the difference between a want and a need.
You guys are awesome and you sure show it when folks are a bit down or in the case of Clifford las week "under the gun"....
Rick
Rick
It is only money. If you want the extra HP and the satisfaction of doing it don't let the money get you down. You have all the time in the world with a good motor installed. You can put money in to 892 as you get it. Yet you still can go to Jellystone with the 871. I see this as a time issue more than a money issue.
My Thoughts
John
I have an 8V92TA and it has never overheated running in mountains in 100 plus weather. It is a MUI so no electronics . I just came back from yuma running 70 to 80 MPH most of the way and hardly used any oil. Jerry
Rick -
As I said in my earlier post, don't let the "Tim Allen Syndrome" get the better of you and/or your wallet at this point in time.
Put this 92 project on the back burner until after your summer trip.
Go, have a good time, enjoy life, enjoy the time with the growing family, they'll be gone before you know it.
2, 5, 10 years from now, no one's going to remember how slow the bus pulled the grades, they'll remember the places they saw and the things they did.
My kids still talk about the family reunion trip we took in 1991 from Fresno to Rapid City, SD in a Dodge Caravan pulling a Coleman tent trailer! They're both parents themselves now, and are starting to do similar things with their own families.
Avoid Eisenhower if it worries you, there are other ways over the Rockies.
Just GO!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Greetings to all:
I have an 82 MCI MC9 with an 8V71N and a 5 speed manual. It was a passenger coach in its prior life. Unbeknownst to me, the engine was in poor shape when I got it. Focusing on salient points only, a local truck shop that I trust rebuilt the engine, to include rebuilt heads, new injectors, a new blower and all the normal overhaul stuff. Because I've been around trucks and equipment since I was kid and am used to 425 Cats and 400+ Cummins (of course with turbos), God I wanted more power. They were behind schedule getting it done. When I picked it up, I drove it straight from Wheeling, WV to Niagara Falls with 20 hockey players and equipment. The engine smoked black under heavy fuel but it ran pretty good. I still wanted more power. I wanted a bigger motor. I wanted to be able to say I got a 475 horse 8V92T with Jakes and blow peoples doors off. It's fargin annoying going up a hill slowly. I just can't take it. We made a few more trips in it and it's ran better every time. We noticed better throttle response, more power and less smoking. I wanted more power! I just got back this Sunday night, March 7, 2010 from a trip from Wheeling to Atlanta, GA and back. To avoid the southern WV turnpike and its hills and to avoid the hills until you get until around Mt. Airy, NC, we went to Cinci and down through Knoxville and Chatanooga. We were running around 73 the whole way which gave us a rolling average of 63 mph according to the Garmin. There were some hills for sure but they were longer grades and not so darn turn laden. We never downshifted past 4th which had us topping big hills at 45.
Its still smokes black under heavy fuel. I think we have that figured out. The fuel rack is shot and has gobs of play/travel in it. The parts are on the way. I can't wait to try it out with the new parts.
Here's my analysis: I am slowly becoming intimate with my engine. Not that I love it, but I know what I have. I started with a good block and the engine was rebuilt right. It's not a GRTO that nobody knows anything about, those GRTO may last 5 mins or 5 decades. I want piece of mind and worry free travelling. I'm gonna keep my 8V71N for now, take good care of it and listen to it scream. After the Atlanta trip, I am not afraid to drive the thing ANY distance. That is a great feeling. When I finally decide I must have more power, I am going to find another coach that came with a big horse motor from the factory.
If anybody is ever in any trouble in northern WV or eastern OH, contact me. I will help as much as I can.
Hammer down!
Josh Miller
Hey Josh and everybody else that has kept an eye on my dealings with this motor.
Well, I was never able to get the dyno test down to what I felt was a realistic price so I'm probably gonna sell the old girl down the road. I have paid my mechanic alot of money and he assures me the chances of this particular motor coming back to life are in the 2% range.
So, guys what is an 445 HP 8v92 that is setup for a truck application worth?
Keep in mind that it has a rebuilr blower, turbo, and injectors. It also has jake brakes.
It is smoking a bit and leaking out of the airbox drains at a pretty good clip. Is that what some guys would consdier a good running take out?
I have $4500 in it as it sits. My mechanic has made me an offer on it
Thanks for walking with me through this.
Rick
Forget my last post. I wanna buy it!
Josh
Quote from: ojgetaway32 on March 12, 2010, 11:19:49 AM
Forget my last post. I wanna buy it!
That's gotta be the easiest sale I've seen on here.
Way to go Josh!
That's a good deal, too, with the blower, injectors, and turbo.
Hope you'll keep us all posted as you get it fitted into your bus.
I just got done running a return trip from Orlando with my 871. 1650 miles in 30 straight hours dragging a 16' enclosed trailer also. In fact we spent 2 hours just getting through Atlanta and rush hour traffic to boot. I sure doubt I would have saved more than 15 minutes with more hp! Granted we were not climbing the Rockies but there was a 6% grade for 4 miles between Chattanooga and Nashville. 2nd gear against the governor. No problem. I do think you really need to run what you got. You'd be surprised how many trucks and 5th wheel campers behind Power Strokes you'll be sacking. 30 years ago the truckers were wishing they could run with the Greyhounds.
Josh -
The more you run it, the more it's gonna break in - takes about 20K of runnin' hard to do so.
Considering the rebuild, what size injectors did your mechanic install? Did he also "advance" the timing?
Reason I ask is because running N65 or larger injectors and "A" timing the engine does several things on an 8V71N:
~ Lotsa black smoke, especially in the lower revs under acceleration.
~ Torque peak is shifted UP the rpm scale, making it harder to get it rolling from a dead stop, especially on a slight grade. (Not quite so much an issue with your 5-speed, killer with the 4s.)
~ More opportunity to overheat - pulling a grade and getting black smoke is a great way to fry a two-stroke. Back off the throttle a little to eliminate the smoke. If the bus maintains speed, you had your foot too far into it. If the bus slows, time for a downshift. These are NOT like the torquey 4-cycle Cats & Cummins you're used to!
Oh, for your motor's long life, make sure you're running straight 40 wt oil in it! (Do a search on oil, lots of cuss/discussion on the topic.)
Chopper's right - on an eight or ten hour run, the extra HP will save you maybe 20 - 40 minutes, even out west. Plus, as he said, you'll easily blow off the stick 'n staple stuff over the length of a run - you've already shown that with your Garmin's numbers. And don't forget the increased fuel burn plus additional cooling necessary to prolong the beast's life!
On a lighter note, but still on topic, remember Aesop's Fable of the Tortoise & the Hare?
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Chopper - You climbed Monteagle - congrats ;D
I thought I heard something whoosh by Chattanooga. Figured it was a fighter plane practicing radar avoidance, but it must have been Chopper! ;D
Guys,
Congrats Chopper... but if all pulls were like Monteagle I would never have bought this 8v92.
I'm not sure but I think you start the pull out of Denver higher than the top of Monteagle.
My bus ran up Monteagle towing a car
That first pull out of Denver minus the car we crawled up and I do mean crawled. Hopefully with our cooling system rebuild we won't struggle with overheating next time we try them.
Rick
Hey guys:
I didn't realize that hill had a name. Monteagle? That's the one the Bandit hit in a drivin' rain so hard he couldn't even see the passin' lane, right?
Chopper, when did you pull it? I pulled the one between Chatanooga and Knoxville.
RJ: My invoice says the injectors are 7E65. No the timing was not advanced to A. It's in their shop now getting the fule rack repaired because of all the play and few other things done. Should I have them do it now? What does it entail? The black smoke claers a little but not enough. You can walk to the back of the see a distinct black coating all over the rear of the unit. Wipe and sniff test indicates it's fuel. The black smoke was never enough on a grade to cause me concern. I have always paid more attention to my water temp gauge and oil temp gauge (if equipped) than anything else. Good advice on the throttle position, I practice that already. Yes I am running straight 40W. You seem like a wealth of info, thanks for your time. Keep it coming! What causes me the most concern with a engine swap or turboing a natural or something like that is the heat. I would always be worried that I was gonna heat up and scatter the engine far from home. You're definitley right about them not being tourqey! LOL
Please advise on A timing if you have time.
Josh
Josh,
Most of what you're getting on the back of the bus may not be from your exhaust It is more than likely coming from those leaks I mentioned. Our MCI's tend to create quite a vacuum running down the road and because the leaking oil vaporizes it ends up painting the rear end of our buses. It would be hard to determine how much of it is unburned fuel from the airbox drains and how much of it is from the oil leaks. I and many others here have made airbox drain catch cans out of pvc to keep our tow vehicles and the back end of our bus as clean as possible. The black smoke you generate when under heavy load is probably not the major contributor.
Rick
Rick:
Airbox drain catch pans? Please elaborate!
Josh
Congrats again Chopper. Any idea what mpg you got?
John
You are right Rick about the altitude. I never gave that much thought. I could have pulled it in third but yanked it down into second and threw a brick on the pedal! I did pass a couple big rigs on the way up so gear bound or not they were working also. You may have heard me running through Chattannoga. All I have is a 4" straight through stainless muffler! When we left I refueled and did a walk around after 200 miles and she was getting 5 miles to the gallon. She kept seeming to run better and better on the trip as far as power and fuel. The last check I took she got 6.8 miles to the gallon between Nashville and St Louis. Overall the whole trip averaged a bit better than 6. Judging by little tell tell signs and such and not knowing the history of my bus I am thinking I have a pretty fresh engine and we just started breaking it in. I had put less than 750 miles on it since I bought it. I have some email's and such that I found in all the records kept of a previous owner asking about injectors and timing. I have no idea. I just know it runs plenty good for me. I'm still going to go with the smaller pulley for the fans soon. I could run it as hard as I wanted most of the time but the outside temps were under 60. Probably couldn't on a 100 degree day!
Scott,
When you make the change you'll need a big puller. I found one that would work from a local rental company.
Just a note, alot of the smaller pulleys had the same outside circumference some just had deeper grooves make sure you don't already have the smaller one.
Rick
Man I had a crappy day working on the bus today. Tried to remove the door skin to recover it in a cream colored vinyl rather than the puke green stuff we have. Well, I have broken at least a dozen drill bits, I hate working on stainless the stuff is just not user friendly, So I get down to the last bolt holding the hinge of the door on and guess what? It's stripped and I don't know it so.... the door falls off and lands paint side out on the tar. Let's just say I will be getting a peninsula side window sooner than expected and imron is some unbelievably tough stuff. Wherever the black trim paint touched there are scratches which are easily fixed but the stuff that would have been hard to fix was great. So the good news was my door didn't get hurt too bad the not so good news I broke off a number of bolts that are used on the door and I had to drill out and retap a number of holes and they still aren't right. You could file all night on stainless and it would laugh at you.
Worked awful hard to accomplish very little..
Rick
Stainless gets "work hard" or so to say. When you start drilling on it and such use lots of cutting oil and have really sharp bits. If the stainless gets hot it gets harder! On the other hand it doesn't take much to heat up what you are removing. Even if you can't heat up the female side just heating up the male side and letting it cool will usually help. Another thing to be happy about is if it wasn't stainless it probably would be worse or gone!
Sorry to hear about your door Rick. That sounds like something that would happen to me.
The onyl thing I did to my bus today was to pick up a new fridge for it. I had a toenail surgically removed Thursday and at times I can barely walk due to the pain.
Scott, it's funny I get harder to work with the more I get heated up too !! Maybe I'm stainless steel too!
This thing sure had me mad earlier.
Brian,
Sorry to hear about your toe :( I had a rough day but it certainly wasn't as bad as what you described. That sounds awful. Hope your feeling better soon and if you need help getting the fridge in let me know.
The stainless thing is such a mystery to me. We had to get my friends industrial aircraft quality tap to put the threads in and that almost broke. How do you get it to soften once it's been overheated?
Rick
Surgery on my toenail might be overstating it a bit. My regular doctor did the procedure right in his office after he saw how the toemail was growing. He numbed up my toe and ripped the toenail right off. It took about 20 minutes. It still hurts just the same.
Quote from: belfert on March 13, 2010, 06:35:12 PM
... He numbed up my toe and ripped the toenail right off. It took about 20 minutes. It still hurts just the same.
Holy crap! Now wonder it hurts!!
Next time you need a toenail ripped off, though, you should call. I'll bring my vice grips over. I'm sure my bill would be half what your doctor charges.
When I first started learning to ski in college, I lost both big toe toenails because I kept leaning back in my ski boots. Since then, I've had problems off and on
with them growing into the sides of the toe. I just get my trusty, rusty buck knife out and go to whittling on them. Getting harder to do that, though, as I get
older and fatter. Can't seem to get my feet up where my eyes can see the dang toenails any more!! Getting more risky every time.
8)
Rick:
Airbox drain catch pans? Please elaborate!
Josh
Josh,
I guess he didn't hear you. The air box is a chamber on each side of the block. It is where the blower puts the air it compresses so it can blow fresh air into the cylinders on the down stroke. The tops of the pistons come down below a port in the side of the cylinder inside the air box. Because thischamber has a wall that looks at the piston and the bore it also sees engine oil. Some small amt of oil gets into this chamber and it would fill if it didn't have a drain. Hence, air box drain. They drain out on the pavement and tha is bad cause the stuff gets blown on the back of the bus and prevents the toad from ever rusting ever. The tubes are also called "slobber tubes" for obvious reasons. They slobber much more at idle and an old worn engine will also be worse. An engine that has been lugged will have the rings welded to the piston just a little and this also is a dripper and a smoker. An old coffee can can be hung over the ends of the slobber tubes to catch the oil and they can be emptied at a given interval and the amt is a measure of .....? If it goes up dramatically after an oil change you got shafted with 10 W 40. There is also a small catch tank that bolts to the side of th block but I get the impression that most were not so equipped and being hard to find I expect that item is spendy. Folgers would certainly work best.
HTH,
John
Here is a photo of the catch tank I made from a piece of 3" PVC pipe and a couple end caps. The vent is from a hydraulic tank. There is a drain valve in the cap on the left end in the photo. The 2 rubber hoses come from the air box drains. Jack
Brian, i know your pain! :o I had the same thing done to me in the army in Vietnam many years ago. They gave me about 3-4 days to heal up, and then it was back out to the field. I limped around for another week or so.
Shoot must be the week for toe nails!
Friday night while I was sitting in a Chattanooga hotel waiting on a bus that left FL 5 hrs late I was sitting on the bed watching TV and playing with my toe nails.
SO this one is long enough I decide I need to trim it. Well I have no clippers since I didn't have my over night bag (as I wasn't planning to be there overnight until I learned the bus was gonna be 7 hrs late because they left 5 hrs late, kept stopping and got stuck in 3 major traffic jams from Tampa to Choo-Choo!). Well I started twisting and folding it to "break it off", and ended up RIPPING the whole thing off :o! :'( OUCH :'( I'd bet nearly everybody on all three floors and in the "lounge" heard me over the noise of the band! Not to mention it bled and bled and bled for hrs and when I got the call the bus was 50 miles out I caused it to start bleeding again when I put my sock on! I ended up ripping a was cloth into strips and tying one around the end of my toe and then putting half the rag ove the end of my foot with my sock on over it! talk about walking softly the rest of the week end! :'(
:o BK :o
WAY TO MUCH INFORMATION. gag....retch! :'(
:o :o :o
BK, you should have just come back over here. I have a good pair of tin snips that would have trimmed your nail. And a good first aid kit to take care of "oops, cut to close". :'(
BK (real one ;D), Yuk :P. I hope you were a responsible patron and payed (yea right ;D) for the wash clothe ;D ;D ;D double yuk! ;D