Guys the wife and I were victims of a home invasion by 2 guys lucky no one was hurt but it upset the wife so much her blood pressure shot to 235/175
I almost lost my best friend because of 2 idiots.
This was the very first time in my life I wanted to kill a human being man I want to shoot the SOB one got away but I kept the other at gun point till law came.
Protect yourself and the family guys there are some wackos out there.
Mike can move this post if he likes I just wanted to warn you guys it can happen to anyone.
good luck
Clifford,
So glad you and yours are OK. I am sure you would rather have shot the guys but that probably would have caused more trouble than they are worth.
I am sorry to say I think we are going to see more of this.
TOM
After spending half my life in prison, I know how crazy some of the nutcases can be, just glad you guys are all right and glad you caught one of them, hopefully they'll get put away for a long time, in michigan home invasion of an occupied house gets a very much enhanced sentance over one where nobody was home at the time, the differnce can be as much as 15 years more. Their lawyers always claim it was their first mistake and they are really good people that are desparate, hopefully the court won't be so jammed up that they'll offer a plea bargain, you as the victim, can refuse the plea bargian if it's offered too, you have options and rights, one of them is to be compensated for the emotional damage it causes, hit the lowlifes with every available tool you can. Just glad your alright, or as alright as you can be after that kind of trauma.
Quote from: luvrbus on March 02, 2010, 06:06:59 AM
Guys the wife and I were victims of a home invasion by 2 guys lucky no one was hurt but it upset the wife so much her blood pressure shot to 235/135
I almost lost my best friend because of 2 idiots.
This was the very first time in my life I wanted to kill a human being man I want to shoot the SOB one got away but I kept the other at gun point till law came.
Protect yourself and the family guys there are some wackos out there.
Mike can move this post if he likes I just wanted to warn you guys it can happen to anyone.
good luck
Wow Clifford!! Thank goodness you both are OK. NOw am I understanding the story correctly? You caught one? Way to go!!! If you get a chance call me at 713 530 9182 as quick as possible I will explain when you call.
My Home Invasion Experience
One afternoon last August I was working in my basement shop when the alarm that sounds whenever a door is opened told me that someone had just entered through an upstairs door. My wife had just gone back to work after back surgery and I thought she might have come home early so I went upstairs to see how she was.
As I entered the dining room there was a man with his back to me looking through a credenza. I reached over behind the TV and pulled out my shotgun. I asked him what he was doing and he turned and stuttered something about he thought he was in someone else's house. I had him empty his pockets and when I saw that he had not stolen anything yet I told him to get out. About that time a second guy came down the hall and I got both of them outside. About that time a third guy came out the front door. I let them all go and called the police. They did their usual checking for finger prints and one of the cops asked me why they weren't investigating a death rather than just an attempted robbery. I told them that the shotgun was empty.
The shotgun is still in the same place (and empty) but I now carry a concealed loaded weapon even when I'm in the house.
I probably could probably have handled it differently (isn't hindsight wonderful) but I didn't think that I could control the situation and dial 911 at the same time.
It was amazing to me that even though there was a car in the carport, alarm company sign in the yard and on the door and the alarm sounded when they opened the door, they still came in.
Clifford, I am very thankful that you and your wife survived it. And I am glad you were properly armed and skilled to defend yourselves and apprehend at least one of them. Otherwise, this could easily have been a thread started by a friend or relative to inform us of a tragic loss. And in that context I believe it is on topic enough for this board.
If home invasions keep happening ( without steep penaltys )
It won't be long before they are breaking into the bus while your in it.
What Cody said.
Plus - I hate a damn thief!
One time, I had to call the police many, many times only to find the law was stacked against me & I had no real recourse. The most recent theft, I had to make repeated phone calls & collect evidence & send it to the police. even then, it seemed to take forever to arrest the guy after he made a statement & confessed to it all.
I'm so glad to hear you both survived, but the violation will take a long time to get past, I don't know if you can ever get over it. Persuing conviction of these dirtbags will help you both feel less helpless. Letting the police know you will not back down will help them do their job - - they hate seeing all their efforts go for nothing when the victims decline to press charges. When they know you aren't backing down, it makes it easier for them to work harder for justice.
After being the victim of theft, I can honestly say that I know understand the power of forgiveness - I feel like it is the most selfish thing I have ever done. I am not bothered at all by it, after I decided to forgive him, I was amazed at the calmness that came to me. I haven't forgotten & I still wouldn't spit on the guy if his guts were on fire nor am I about to give him a chance at the other cheek.
RE - The most recent theft from my orphanage of 4 scenicruisers, after 2 months, I ain't ready to forgive that yet, but I can tell I'm getting closer. . . .
I guess it helps that I'm too lazy to carry a grudge. (that plus the fact the punk is in jail . . . )
You just don't know!! Thank googness you had the thought process and the wits about you to protect your family. I have been a cop for a long time. I don't see enough people with the wits you displayed. It is very very rare you see someone able to defend themselves even in their own homes.
Somebody posted a reply about the cop asking why they were not investigating a death. I don't think the cop should have asked that. He of all people should know not to say that. We can all sit back and armchair quarterback. To do so we would be wrong. When somehting like this happens things get haywire.
I have been ina tight situation or two over the years. Later somebody would ask me a question about the incident. At times I would not be able to remember anything about the incident. It is asa if your sub conscious has taken over and running the show. So nobody should say a person should do this or a person should do that. It aint that easy.
Quote from: oldmansax on March 02, 2010, 06:16:29 AM
Clifford,
So glad you and yours are OK. I am sure you would rather have shot the guys but that probably would have caused more trouble than they are worth.
I am sorry to say I think we are going to see more of this.
TOM
That is why I love living in Texas, you would be wrong.
And when you shoot, you shoot to kill. Dead men can't argue in court/sue you for shooting them.
Good job for getting one of them locked up lvr, the sad thing is he'll probably be back out on the street pretty soon.
Clifford,
Glad to hear both of you are OK. We were robbed many years ago, but fortunately, we were not home at the time. A few years ago Floida passed what has been referred to as the "Kill Bill". If someone forcibly enters your home or vehicle, you have the right to shoot them and cannot be held liable criminally or in civil court. Home invasions & car jackings decreased since the bill went into effect.
It's amazing how certain laws reduce the crime rate:
http://www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm (http://www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm)
Clifford,
Glad you and your wife are ok. Unfortunately things appear they are going to get worse before they get better. There are definitely other means to support ones self than becoming a thief. To many want it the easy way.
Fortunately for you and your wife, you had the ability to keep it together and act quickly. Good job Clifford!
Take care of the wife's BP. Maybe install an alarm system that is attached to a loud speaker outside.
Bryan
Yes, the 'kill bill' is a good and necessary thing that has removed some of the power from the criminals & given it ti the victims. BUT- as badly as some need removing from the gene pool, I don't know that I want that on my hands. As much as I would like to have done so a few times in the past, actually taking a life is a heavy thing to carry with you the rest of your life - I don't know if I'm up to that task. I am most thankful I haven't been put in that position.
I commend Clifford for having the restraint to let the trained professionals handle dealing with the trash!
Clifford, you are a real hero!
I hope this incident leaves no scars . . . .
Quote from: philiptompkjns on March 02, 2010, 06:48:48 AM
Quote from: oldmansax on March 02, 2010, 06:16:29 AM
Clifford,
So glad you and yours are OK. I am sure you would rather have shot the guys but that probably would have caused more trouble than they are worth.
I am sorry to say I think we are going to see more of this.
TOM
That is why I love living in Texas, you would be wrong.
And when you shoot, you shoot to kill. Dead men can't argue in court/sue you for shooting them.
Good job for getting one of them locked up lvr, the sad thing is he'll probably be back out on the street pretty soon.
This is what I was talking about. There are more troubles than legal and civil penalties when it comes to shooting a person. It does something to you and in very very rare instances would it be good. I have had to choose to or not too more times than I care to mention on here. Most of time I felt I made the right choice and everytime I was glad I didn't have to shoot another human being. It seems to me Luvrbus made the right choice. Both he and his wife are safe now and one punk was apprehended. That is as good of an outcome as can be expected.
That's awful Clifford but I'm glad to hear you are all alive. I'm a little surprised that the attack dogs didn't tear the perps apart but maybe they were locked up.
Give Sonja a hug for us.
Everyone of us at some point will experience some sort of trauma at the hands of a criminal, some will remember it for the rest of their life and will relive each day of it, it depends on how strong a person is and how violent the act was, I'm one of the few that have trouble putting things behind me, when I first started working for the state I was involved in an accident when a kid that was joy riding swerved into our cruiser as we attempted to pull him over, my partner and friend didn't survive, he was a veteran officer and I was the rookie driveing, I can tell you with certainty you stop and think of what might have happened if only you had turned, stopped, slowed, what ever, there is always an alternative afterwards, but at the time you do the best you can, I'm so glad your ok and caught at least one of them. http://www.odmp.org/officer/11007-trooper-darryl-m.-rantanen (http://www.odmp.org/officer/11007-trooper-darryl-m.-rantanen)
Bob, those little guys did let us know there was a problem thanks to them we got the upper hand.
good luck
Clifford, Sonja, Cheryl and I are appalled this happened to you and the Mrs. How fortunate for the perp to still be able to tell the tale of this horrid act. My mom was brutally attacked in a home invasion some 40 years ago while home alone, now you know why we don't stray from home too often. Mom still has many sleepless nights over that event, the only reason she feels better is she knows that family and friends are close by and always checking on her, and of course there is Boo( our American Pit Bull)who would make short work of making a meal of anyone who entered the premises uninvited. In a home invasion scenario,you do what ever it takes to protect your loved ones and property, when it happens to you on your property you are the only one that is right! Glad you guys are alright, treat the little guys to something special today, they deserve it I think. ;D
Clifford, I am sure glad that you guys are OK physically, and hope the mental part fades away in time.
I don't know how far we can carry this, but I would like to have some input on "protection". I know it has been discussed in the past, but maybe we should discuss it again.
I have a pump action shotgun in the bus. I keep it loaded but in a gun bag. It would be very hard to get to in a hurry. At home I have a small 22 pistol and a 22 rifle. Both are not loaded and could not be loaded quickly. Neither would have much stopping power if that was needed.
The issue I am dealing with is how to have protection close and readily accessible, but somehow out of the hands of the grandkids. I also do not want to get cross ways with the law in terms of concealed weapons in the bus.
I have thought about some sort of spray. I worry about the spray can going bad (no way to check it). I have also thought about a taser technology (example: http://www.defenseproducts101.com/tasers.html), but they are expensive.
In a thread some time ago, I brought up the thought of a flair gun. Got talked out of the idea pretty quickly.
Would love some thoughts on the subject.
Jim
Jim, I ordered us 2 tasers this morning I don't mind giving a punk a high voltage shock if I would have had one it would have been used if for nothing else just to watch the guy moan.
good luck
I have received several emails lately proclaiming the use of a can of wasp spray. It can spray approx. 20', does not require any kind of permit, and when sprayed in the face of an intruder will incapacitate them. I do not it this actually works or not. Anybody know? Jack
PS: Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Better to be able to protect your family, yourself
I forgot to say this in my previous post, but this subject has been on my mind for the past few months. Some of you may follow Nick Russell's blog and/or subscribe to his Gypsy Journal. A few months ago he and his wife returned to their coach to find it was broken into. As Nick went into the coach, the burglar rushed by him to escape! A weapon would not have helped in that case, but it sure got me to thinking.
The possible issue with the taser is that it is a one shot deal as I understand it. If you missed, you would be SOL. Also you would need to be pretty close. In a bus that would be the case, buy not necessarily at home.
In CO we have had a "Make My Day" law for many year. I have not heard of one case where the home owner has had a problem. Indeed, it seems that they have been given the benefit of the doubt. One case I recall, the burglar was shot in the back and found outside the house. It was presumed that he was inside when shot. Those kinds of laws are great in my opinion, but on the road, we have no guarantee that we would be covered (don't know if that state has a similar law).
My thought on the pump action was that any bad guy that heard the pump action would take off.
Jim
PS to Mike and the moderators, thanks for keeping this on the main board. IT IS bus related.
Clifford,
I have always respected and admired your knowledge and contribution on this board, NOW YOU'RE MY HERO!
Glad no one was physically hurt. Take care, Will
Jim, I ordered the 3 shot Taser surely I could get a guy with 3 shots
good luck
Quote from: JackConrad on March 02, 2010, 08:25:20 AM
I have received several emails lately proclaiming the use of a can of wasp spray. It can spray approx. 20', does not require any kind of permit, and when sprayed in the face of an intruder will incapacitate them. I do not it this actually works or not. Anybody know? Jack
PS: Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Better to be able to protect your family, yourself
I've used that kind of wasp spray. I shot it up into the gables about 20 feet up with great accuracy. It sure pissed off the wasps. I'm not sure what it would do to an intruder, but I'd be willing to try if it was my only means of protection I had. I like the idea.
Glad to hear you place is not a "gun free zone". This could have ended much differently.
I am a proud member of the NRA (http://home.nra.org/#/home), GOA (http://gunowners.org/), and VCDL (http://www.vcdl.org/), need I say more?
Glad all is well. I guess the upside is that, statistically speaking, it should not happen to you again. I once eavesdropped on a conversation between a New Orleans prosecutor and a man arrested for trespass. The prosecutor told him that he would have shot him and put a knife in his hand if it had been on his property. If you ever do shoot anyone, they should be armed when the police arrive. There are many different possible scenarios in any given situation. If you keep a weapon in your bus and it is entered while you are gone, you would have to assume that the intruder is now armed when you return. If you do keep a weapon then, it must be loaded and ready to use. Some say that with a semi-auto, you could leave the chamber empty so the racking sound will scare the intruder. However, if you want that effect, you could rack the gun anyway even if the chamber is loaded. It gives you another option. It also should be in a place that is easy for you to get to, and impossible for someone else to find (that sounds easy, right?). Further, if you keep a firearm you should stay practiced with it.
Clifford and Sonja,
Tami and I are praising the Lord you both came out of this OK.
John and Tami.
After working 'inside' for a while you come to appreciate how dangerous some criminals are. As a Field Training Officer I got to know many of our new officers quite well. I found whatever they voted blue or red or even green, after coming to know the inmates they all had firearms at home and generally became very cut and dry about their use.
Knowing who's on the street keeps me 'prepared'. Cleaning up afterward is my main concern. ;)
IMHO
Clifford,
I just read this thread...That is rough >:(!!!! I am very sorry to hear about this. At least you got one of them. I have no doubt that you will be able to get some great legal advice ;). Did you call the police, or your daughter first ;D? (Just kidding). I agree with what some of the others have said. The world will only get worse (oh, goody, let's take everybody's guns away, that way only the bad guys have them....the way some people think), and one has to be ready to defend one's family.
You did the right thing by not impulsively shooting them. I pray that you are able to move past this, and especially your wife. Personally, I like the Taser idea. I would hate to have to kill somebody, if it wasn't necessary.
God bless,
John
About a year ago I took Ohio's conceal carry class, since then I've carried a glock loaded at all times, times are changing and I live in the country, by the time the sheriff would arrive what ever might happen would be over. For 35 years I wouldn't have a gun in the house, that changed I'm here to protect my family! I'm not pro gun........I'm just pro living! I'd rather have it and not need it as to need it and not have it! Clifford I'm glad you are both well!
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Wow! Sorry to hear you guys had to go throught this. Just very happy you and Sonja are safe. The world is full of jerks who don't care. If they were locals there might be more, watch out.
Paul
Dallas,
Right on you are 100% correct. ;D
I have always had a loaded weapon close by just in case some thing like this might happen to my family.
Just today our youngest daughter called and said that some one attempted to break into their home while they were at work.
The 4 legged dogs alarm/alert systems went off and the persons did not gain entrance.
Us Folk's here in Texas. Thank God we can shoot them if they try to do us body harm.
Tazer em nah! It just makes them mad, Shoot to kill solves the problem.
jlv
The subject of concealed weapons permits has come up quite a bit. I assume that is issued by the state. Is there reciprocity?
Like others, we live out in the toolies to some degree and we can't count on quick response. I have not been as concerned about the house as I am the bus. We often park in Wal Mart type lots and you can't be sure what the neighborhood is like at night.
How does one deal with Canadian law?
Clifford, I assume with the taser you do not need any kind of permit. Did you get a holster and will you wear it on your person very much?
Well, if it is not engines to be paranoid about, it has to be something else :o
Jim
Clifford,
So sorry to hear of yours and Sonja's experience! But I am so glad to hear it had a "happy ending"!
I agree with arming to protect ones family and self. Just glad to hear you were able to do exactly that regardless of the out come!
It truly makes my problems seem insignificant compared to what you been through!
:o BK :o
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Quote from: bevans6 on March 02, 2010, 03:04:57 PM
I have left home for weeks and forgot to lock my front door...
Brian
Well, Brian. Your choice if you want to leave your door unlocked. However, down in the states we have a way bigger problem with "immigration" and such. We must have a lot more low life people, that don't have morals (giving you the benfit of the doubt, not to mention there are far more people down here ;)). The point is, taking away people's gun is NOT the answer. Why? Do a quick glance at how many felon's carry a weapon, and are repeat offenders. Yup, disarm the nation, and only the badguys are left with guns. Brilliant, huh?
God bless,
John
clifford sorry to hear this glad you are well john
Wow Clifford...sorry to hear about your ordeal. Hope that Sonja recovers...most important. I feel for youse guys.
Since it seems that many believe in and have a firearm for self defense, it would be good to research and buy the most appropriate self defense rounds. You want something that will stop the attacker but not leave the room if you miss. There is ammunition designed for this. Standard police type ammo is not. Target ammo is also not.
Jim, go to www.usacarry.com/concealed-carry-permit-reciprocity-maps.html (http://www.usacarry.com/concealed-carry-permit-reciprocity-maps.html) to find out most of what you want to know. Quick answer is that Utah and Florida permits are the ones most recognized by other states. You can get one even though you are not a resident of those states if you take a class and meet the requirements. A good book to buy is the Travelers Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States that tells you what is legal in each state. It is updated each year in January.
Sorry! it looks like you get an invalid page if you click on that link. Try www.usacarry.com/ (http://www.usacarry.com/) and then click on the first little map on the left side of the page. By the way, forget taking any kind of gun to Mexico or Canada except long guns for hunting or competition events. And then you have to go thru a lot of red tape to get permits from what i hear.
Quote from: bevans6 on March 02, 2010, 03:04:57 PM
FWIW, Canadian law doesn't support concealed carry, possession of a "short gun" of most any sort for any reason at home, long guns need to be registered, and without resorting to specifics, if you shoot someone invading your house, you will go to jail. A baseball bat is a better option. Our crime statistics are by and large far lower than in the US, again off the top of my head. A home invasion would be front page news in my city of 500,000. They just don't happen very often at all, and I am totally unconcerned about living in the country and possible issues. I have left home for weeks and forgot to lock my front door...
Brian
I'm not as sanguine about this as Brian is. There is a tremendous difference in attitudes toward firearms as you move east to west across Canada with central Canada and the extreme left coast being the least tolerant.
To answer Jim's question, handguns and tasers are specifically prohibited. You may be able to have them shipped through the country if you are headed for Alaska but don't plan to travel with them. I believe you can enter the country with a long gun but I strongly advise you to present it as a hunting weapon with a specific hunting destination. "Self defense" is not an acceptable reason for any weapon in the eyes of our government. Even pepper spray needs to be labelled for bears rather than self-defense.
Don't ask me to explain the logic of that - I don't agree with it - but AFAIK that's the way it is. I'm forced to travel unarmed while in your country & Mexico because I'm not comfortable with the risk of crossing the border armed. I can't confirm the accuracy of everything on this page (http://www.panda.com/canadaguns/) but what I do know is right so I suspect it is generally accurate.
My only other comment is "better to be judged by 12 than carried by six". I hope I never have to shoot someone and we try to stay out of locations/situation that might lead to that happening. However, if me or my family is threatened, I would not hesitate to protect them. I keep my guns loaded. I have had people question why I keep the guns loaded? I asked them why they keep their fire extinguishers filled? When they reply "in case I need it", I just smile and say "me too" Jack
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Home invasion is very scary. We live in a very small town in Ga. and there was one about a mile from us a couple of months ago. In Ga. you can get a permit to carry a gun, conceled or otherwise, no classes required. Just fill out the app. wait for them to run a ck. on you, pay up, and it is yours. Ken and I both have one. As yall know we travel all the time, and spend lots of time at truck stops, rest stops and walmarts. We are armed at all times. I know that our permit is good in a lot of other states, but I dont remember which ones. But, in these times, it pays to be prepared. I think of all the times a gunman has gone into a restaurant, etc. and opened fire. If only a good guy would have had a weapon, maybe a lot of lives could have been spared. We too live in the country, so, you have to take care of yourself. No neighbors close by. I have to stay home sometimes when Ken is out on the road. We installed an alarm system, as well as cameras. If anyone comes in the house the alarm will go off and the sheriff called. Meantime, I have notice to have my gun ready, and it is loaded and on the pillow beside me, along with my cell phone Unfortunatley, a lot of people know that if the bus is not there, we are gone. So, if i stay home, I make it a point to make it obvious I am there. I dont know if that is a good thing or not, come to think of it. ??? It does make me feel better, but, I still dont sleep as well when I am home alone. It would be hard for me to know that I killed someone for sure, dont know if I would ever be the same, but, if it is me or them, then.....its them. Georgias laws are like Texas, you have the right if someone is breaking in. It is like Co. law, make my day law. Anyhow, thank God, you are okay. I know it will take a long time for your wife to feel safe again. Take care, Ruth A word of caution, keep your doors locked all the time in your bus, even in the middle of the day, or when you are running in and out. You never know who is lurking.
Very sorry to hear about what happened to you and your wife,I know from reading the posts hear that you have been very helpful to many here.sure makes you think about how crazy people in this world can be. I cant say that shooting them would have been the answer when all is said and done.However i can relate to the feeling of shoot first ask? later. Take care.
Clifford, i'm sorry you had to deal with some piece of crap invading your home, but i'm happy it came out in your favor. Our prayer's for your wife's BP getting back to normal soon.
i'm not in favor of killing anyone needlessly, but i just heard some dumb A$$ legislator in florida suggest releasing criminals early to save money and cut costs. Cut costs by letting them work for their supper. i'm in favor of the modified 3 strikes law.
and Jim shepherd, i would not be so open about what i carry and where. a lot of us want to protect ourselves, but there are also a lot of anti-nra folks around. there are plenty of states that except cc permits from other states. from what i saw, i would stay south of IL and MI. Ohio lets you carry your weapon in your bus if you are going camping or hunting.
in florida, a sherrif told me that while driving, your bus is a vehicle, so treat the gun that way. when parked, it's your home and treat it that way.
Gumpy, wasp spray is my new preferred method if i can't get to a gun quicker. i've even given fran lessons at the range with guns.
glad again for you clifford, that if came out ok as a home invasion can be.
Okay, for all the prospective shooters, here is a site with a bunch of relevant videos. Of particular interest are ones on what to do after a shooting, what ammo to use, which weapons are likely to be the best choice, etc. Oh yeah, this is just like getting to Carnegie Hall-- practice, practice, practice. CHP are required to shoot 50 rounds a month. How many are you chipping?
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1541138791?bclid=1527680698&bctid=51377350001 (http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1541138791?bclid=1527680698&bctid=51377350001)
Well, that didn't seem to translate real well. Try this one if interested. Click on the personal defense tab.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/videos (http://www.gunsandammo.com/videos)
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Quote from: Now Just Dallas on March 03, 2010, 07:49:07 PM
Cat says I can't say what I think.
or is that can't think what ya say? ;)
;D BK ;D
Clifford, I was amazed when you told me this on the phone today because I had not heard it. I am very glad that you were armed and able to defend your home and family. I'm glad the punks didn't make you shoot, but if it had come down to you or them, I would rather it had been them. That is what a lot of the talk skips over. Sometimes you don't have a choice. Sometimes people will kill you as soon as look at you. You either let them or you stop them. I'm glad Sonja is okay too. That is pretty scary about her blood pressure. You both have lots of people here praying for you.
About this safe gun-free Canada thing.... This might be a good article for some people to read. Sometimes things have to be put into perspective - especially if trying to say that an unarmed population makes things safer.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/issuesideas/story.html?id=fb715fde-9cee-42e2-ae75-81061c3cee14 (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/issuesideas/story.html?id=fb715fde-9cee-42e2-ae75-81061c3cee14)
Clifford,
First and foremost I am glad that you had the presence of mind to handle this, to a safe result for your family.
Our prayers are for both of you to return to some sense of comfort and safety in your own home.
Cliff & Julie
On the other issue of the self defense topic, I am glad I live in Florida where we passed a no retreat law.
I can do whatever is necessary to defend my family, home, property and person. And I will...............
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And Wikipedia is written by anyone who wants to write something. Not a good source. Yes, the article I posted had a political message. And it should.. The politicians up there tell you what they want you to hear just as they do down here. Did you happen to read any of the statistics at all or did you just discount it as political? are we saying that we can't believe anything we read on Canada.com? Very valid points were made in the article. But it was not about a politician. It was about a political system.
And if you do want to post from an unreliable source such as Wikipedia, don't pick and choose. You stopped your quote one line before it got good. From your own source, two lines after what you posted:
Since violent crimes are a smaller fraction of all crimes, the difference between the two countries is less than the homicide rate might make it seem, and the overall rates are generally close.
Furthermore, in recent years, the gap in violent crime rates between the United States and Canada has narrowed due to a precipitous drop in the violent crime rate in the U.S. For example, while the aggravated assault rate declined for most of 1990s in the U.S. and was 324 per 100,000 in 2000, the aggravated assault rate in Canada remained relatively steady throughout and was 143 per 100,000 in 2000. In other areas, the U.S. had a faster decline. For instance, whereas the murder rate in Canada declined by 36% between 1991 and 2004, the U.S. murder rate declined by 44%. [8] Surprisingly, both Saskatoon and Regina consistently have Violent Crime rates that would place them among the 10 most violent cities in the US, and often individually exceed larger US centers in terms of Total numbers for Aggravated Assaults and Robbery.
Just like the article I posted said... Crime is dropping in the US and rising in Canada. The biggest cities in the US raise the average even though crime outside of those cities is markedly lower. From that number, take away the crime that is perpetrated by illegals and I would wager that the US would be below Canada. 68% of the population in California prisons are illegals. The US federal number is not far below that. It was 33% in 2004.
Interesting that the US cities they used for comparison ban guns. Who cares if it is 1% or 75% if your the statistic. The indisputable evidence is that guns reduce crime. As gun ownership has gone up in the US crime has declined. Something the Brady Campain has conveniently overlooked. Also note that in the Brady State scoring of states that they felt had weak gun laws, Utah is the only state they scored a zero. If the anti-gun's logic held true, then Utah would be the most dangerous state to live in. Ever been to Utah? You would be hard pressed to meet a more civilized and polite people in all of the US. The only state I would move to if I had to.
Quote from: bevans6 on March 04, 2010, 08:49:04 AM
If you delve a little deeper, a lot of our violent crime is tightly clustered in dense urban settings, which you would also expect.
Which also explains the disparity between crime rates between the two countries. The U.S. has many more high population cities with dense urban areas than Canada does. (Keep in mind that the total population of Canada is about 10% less than the population of California alone). And those dense urban areas have the highest violent crime rates in the U.S. just like in Canada. Since there are more dense urban areas, the national averages are impacted. Also notable is that generally the big cities have the toughest gun control laws.
Clifford,
The very first thing that crossed my mind, admittedly a short trip, was the comment about your wife's blood pressure. Now that has all sorts of ugly consequences. I wondered if you had addressed that problem with your Dr. There are fast acting tranq.s that get things back to a"livable" range quickly but I am just groping with that subject. Be prepared with the right ammo, gun and meds. God knows we love you guys.....Please be careful and be a good Scout.
Your Friend,
John
Yep John I have a young EMT to thank that came with the police I guess that is common practice to take care of any vent holes in the thief but he took one look at her and check her blood pressure then transported her to the ER.
good luck
Hi, Cliff.
I finally got online!
Has Sonja gotten better since her pressure spiked?
I'll be home in a few hours and call you again after some rest.
Tom Caffrey
Glad everything came out reasonably well for you. I would just like to add that an empty gun is just not a good thing for a couple of reasons. If you are going to be passive then it is best not to appear aggressive because the appearance of a gun could cause escalation of the force from the idiots that invaded your home. You just cannot count on these type of personality (those who would boldly break into your home and rifle through your valuables) to be unarmed and back down at the appearance of a gun.
I believe a person needs to be prepared to use the gun if you choose to escalate the situation. Just as the police officers do and for the same reason, keep the gun loaded and ready to use if you are forced to use it. Otherwise I would say you should not display an empty and useless gun and take your chances on the mercy and reasonable thinking (yikes!) that the invader might show you and your loved ones. Seems clear to me that taking responsibility for oneself and for your family is not having the ability to call 911 and wait. Nor is it to grab an unloaded gun and point. Don't get me wrong, guns need to be safe and kept away from untrained persons that might misuse them and also be kept away from the idiot that invades your home so they don't easily grab and use the gun on you. Concealing gives you a great advantage. If you pull it out then be prepared to use it. Also, when dealing with these type of idiots, I would not want them to have an opportunity to return under any circumstances. Glad you survived this ordeal and I sure hop your wife is doing better.
Up here we call an empty gun a club.
Quote from: cody on March 08, 2010, 08:15:44 AM
Up here we call an empty gun a club.
Not quite Cody. In that case, it's loaded with Viagra.. ::) ::)
A year ago I was doing some remodeling. I hired an ex-con to help and he worked out very well and I left him in the house while I went for materials. One day when I returned he told me that the dogs had earned their keep. Seems they went off barking, not all that rare an event, but he thought there was a different tone so he called them. They refused to come or stop barking. He found them in my shop staring down a young jerk that was frozen in place half way thru the laundry room. 26 and 17 pounds of "you aren't supposed to be here". At first I was pissed that I hadn't been there but later I thought "maybe its for the better". I fed the "troops" steak that night but I only had to cook one of'em.
John