On Public Surplus fire truck wirh 8v92 silver.Auction #407572 - 1985 HAHN/BECK FIRE ENGINE
fwiw
8V92 DETROIT DIESEL (RUNS, BUT NEEDS TO BE REBUILT)
That's awfully low hours for a well maintained engine to need rebuilding. I wonder if they really know what's wrong with it. It has the bypass blower might be a good core for one of you brave repowerer's out there at the very least.
What I like about fire engine detroit's is
#1 they are kept indoors so no "cold starts".
#2 they are driven hard like the designers intended
#3 maintenance on a machine where people's lives depend on them is really extreme
What I don't like about them and what probably negates some of the above statement is the time they spend idling. Does anybody know if they just hi idle when pumping or if they go to the wide open governed rpm?
That is a clean looking engine. It would be interesting to magnify the Diesel service placard on the valve cover, get the number , see if their still in business and if they know anything about this particular motor.
I actually hoped to find a lo mile fire truck for my repower at a good price but it never materialized.
Rick
Quote from: RickB on February 11, 2010, 07:05:48 AM
Does anybody know if they just hi idle when pumping or if they go to the wide open governed rpm?
Rick
Pump RPM is well above idle, however, it is very rare that an engine spends all of the on scene time pumping. Much of the time is spent idling as well as all the on scene time on calls that do not require pumping such as EMS back-up. Jack
Most of those are wide open when pumping Rick with the converter locked
good luck
Quote from: luvrbus on February 11, 2010, 07:17:36 AM
Most of those are wide open when pumping Rick with the converter locked
good luck
There you go again Clifford teaching me something I should have all ready known again!
I started to ask "What? Why would it be going through the converter? Why would an automatic transmission be involved when running the pump?"
But then it hit me like a Fire Truck! Ah duh, how else is it going to get to the PTO?
Ah, as one of my all time favorite punch lines to a joke goes,
"AH, DUH..... :o ::) ;) :D BIG RED TRUCK!" ;) ;D ;D BK ;D (politically incorrect busnut! ;) )
Hey guys,
If I remember right this is a manual transmission truck so how would they go about engaging the pump? A specific extra gear That disengages the transmisson or a PTO off the transmission. Just curious.
It doesn't seem like any of the aux drives would be capable of that kind of torque without breaking.
I'm all ears...
RB
The pump is usually built into a unit similar to a transfer case. When in pump mode the drive line is disconnected and the output pf the transmission is connected to the pump. If a standard transmission then it is pumped in direct, that is normally 4th or 5th gear. Newer automatic trans pumpers uses the computer to put the trans in the appropriate gear. The few engines our Dept has pump at relatively low RPM and power levels.
Fire apparatus spends much time idling. They also get abused by firing up and standing on the throttle cold. And in our case, being a small rural Dept, thankfully, long periods of non-use.
Lots of truck manual transmissions have a gear that runs a PTO that turns with the input shaft, so the trans can be in neutral and still run the PTO...is that the question?
It says it has a four speed auto trans
Oooops. My bad. Well, I wonder what the thing will actually sell for? 8v92 and a 740. Sounds like a good possible repower rig. Spoken by the dude that is leaking money like a sieve on his own repower. LOL
Most reasonably new pumpers have AT. I have a '59 and a '70, both with AT.
this may not work
It's disconnected... :-[ :-[
Well, I'm not sure what I would've said anyways. "Hey, there is this fire truck and you used to work on it".
They probably would've hung up on me or more likely they did all the service for the bay area fire stations.
I hope it finds a good home.
Rick
you know if you bought that thing you qould have a good core engine and trans with a lot of scrap to recoupe your money.
Don
I found an article saying Russett Diesel Service is defunct. It also mentioned the owners took out 401k money from paychecks but never actually put the money in the employees' 401k accounts.
Probably even harder than transit or marine service. Let's go through all the reasons why. A fire apparatus may sit for DAYS without rolling a wheel (it happens) or it may have 20 emergency responses per 24 hours. Depends upon the company and the department.
If the company runs slow (ours did) the engine temp had the time to cool way off, like down to 80-100 degrees. If sitting for days, figure a very cold start. The air compressors were speced and designed to fill some of the air tanks FAST, like in just a few seconds.
Then, it's absolutely full throttle (N90's) getting the heavy apparatus up to a safe road speed. (no more than 10-15 mph over the speed limit) Our governors were set at 2500 rpm full load and 2800 no load. Fuller T-905M 5-speed trannys. Top speed at 2500 rpm was 65 mph. 8V71N's and 671N's
Our engines (pumpers) used a amidships pump design, where there was a very short driveshaft between the Fuller and the pump transmission, then another short driveshaft to the rear end. The engines used only a fraction of the rated hp to pump, either from a plug, the tank, or from draft.
But the rpm was high. You had a choice (way back then) of either pumping in pressure or volume; kinda like a two speed water pump. The water hp required varied on the individual fire, application, pressure, volume, hose stream type, number, etc., but was very low. Each pump job was different.
What killed the life (in hours or road miles) of fire apparatus power plants was the large amount of idle time. Now I understand electronics has solved some of it. Anyway, way back then (1975) the Detroits were changed out by the shops about every 25,000 miles. We helped do it. Fun.
I.S.O. Class 1 Fire Department. Lots of tax dollars misspent fur sures. Big budget for the size town then. Bakersfield City Fire Department. Everything as changed now, most of it for the better. Anyway, used fire apparatus MIGHT have a brand new rebuilt power train. HB of CJ (old coot now)
Thought i'd reive this thread rather than start another.
I, too, am looking at fire truck power trains as a replacement/upgrade for my '85 MCI 96A36V92TA. Mine needs a rebuild and does not have jakes.
I can find a 400hp 6V92 in fire truck trim, or an 8V92. Both with jakes and very low mile trannys.
I suppose you could equate pump hrs with highway miles?
Any updated thoughts on this?
Thanks
You have your work cut out for you installing a truck engine in a MCI bus those are not plug and play by no means, buy a bus engine
Fire truck spend a lot of their life idling also which is hard on them.
For rough calculating, fleet guys count a minute of run time is a mile of highway running.
The engine computers on new stuff record it all.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior