I have called 2 places and one is quoting me around $1200-1500 the other said 3-4K!!
I know they have to hook up some stuff but the more expensive place allowed 2-3 hours to "hook up" the exhaust and 2-3 hours to hook up the fuel system. Guys I work slow sometimes but come on we're talking two hoses and a hose clamp here.
I don't know how long I would have to run it at the shop to see if it would clear up. I guess i could move it outside my mechanics bay hook up a radiator to it and let it run for a couple hours but it won't be under load. Will that "unloaded" test allow it to clear up?
Sorry to ask so many questions but I rely on concensus in most of my decisions.
Thanks from a grateful busnut...
Hey maybe Brian Elfert and I have something in the water here in St Paul that makes us do things that look like were crazy!!! ;D ;D He's wondering if he's crazy for his possible roof raise and heck people have been saying I'm 20 cents short of a quarter for most of my life! even before I got the bus lover virus. (For which there is no known cure this side of the grave)
Rick
Rick, howdy, I know you must feel like you are at the fork in the road,and gotta make the big decision, Do I go left or right, right? I had no choice in stabbing the replacement engine in our bus (original motor was Mmm, Mmm toasty) ;D,but what little history there was with the newer to me engine,was that it was a known good running engine (tuned up before being pulled) that was pulled and replaced with a bigger Cummings, so based on that, the motor went in. It smoked, sure, it leaked and blew oil out the tubes. we took a big chance and decided to run it to see if it would clear up.
If the funds are available to do so, why not go through he motor and have some thing that will give you many years of service, if not then it will be a crap shoot ( no pun intended). I think( and I have been wrong before ;D) running the engine for hours on the stand will not be the equivalent of running the engine in the bus or on a dyno where loads can be simulated, and then see if it cleans up. To sum up. It is like I said to Brian about the roof raise, it's about the Ways & Means, if the ways and means come together, build it fresh. just one man's opinion,and hopefully others will contribute ideas to your dilemma, non the less Good luck in what ever you decide, :) :)
Rick;
The shops around here charge $700.- 1200 depending on any trouble they might have running the engine. If you know some of the guys in the shops ask them for an internal rate. Tell them you need a two hour run just to make sure it is in good condition. you will pay for around four hours for set up and tear down time, pluse fuel sure charge.
You do not want to run the engine at high rpm for very long you can glaze the cylinder kits and then you will need to put it on a dyno to heat it up and deglaze them. any Engine that runs for hours on end with out a load will glaze the kits
Before you get it on the dyno fix the turbo, if it comes apart while running it you won't like the out come.
When you get it on the dyno get it up to operating temp and then swat that thing as hard as you can and let it cook for about an hour. If it cleans up put it in, if not put new kits in it and put it in your bus. If you don't want new kits let me know and i might buy the engine from you.
Hope this helps
Don
Just wanted to add a little more. Rick, if you hadn't already done so, gather the serial #off the engine and give it to Don or clifford to find out if the engine has the correct parts on it ie,turbo, injectors blowwer etc.and then look the engine over, please disregard if already done . good luck
Van,
I appreciate your input and truth be told if I hadn't read your story as related by Clifford I probably would have quit on this thing yesterday. The mechanic is willing to trade my bill for the motor so I would be out the money I spent on it and the money I spent getting it back here but i wouldn't have to pay the 2 grand I owe him so I was leaning towards that option.
A little history. The main reason I considered doing this is the excellent running 8V71 I have got warmer than I am comfortable with on the first real big pull outside of denver heading west with ambient temps in the 70's last summer so I turned around and said I have to determine if I just don't have the power to clear these hills which would go against what my mechanic and all my friends have said which is my 8v71 has alot of power so I looked at the cooling system. It was shot... The squirrel cage seals and the rear door seals and radiators were all shot. So, I bought new larger radiators rebuilt my entire cooling system with the smaller pulley and now my motor runs too cold if anything.
So, the first question remains: Will my bus with a normally aspirated 8V71 now clear Eisenhower Pass? My guess is probably.
But I still told my wife if I ever found an affordable repower that I could do alot of myself I would do it.
The second question is when does affordable start to be unaffordable?
I can afford to do what I consider to be a reasonable repower around 7-10K with everything. But this motor could conceivably get up to the 15-17K range and I cannot do that to my family, I have two small kids and I can't have every bit of our overflow for an entire year go into a motor. Heck, I could sink all that money into it and have to cancel our trip to Yellowstone in June because we can't afford fuel and camping fees.
It is the fork in the road. In answer to your question from last night my mechanic did run the rack and it was way out of whack. So, with that said, the plan I am considering most plausible is to have him finish the complete tuneup, put in new injectors and rebuild the turbo compressor for around 2K and at that point I will have to trust that the great oil pressure, the great compression rings and like new cross hatching in my cylinders will reseat my rings like yours. This motor hasn't run in probably 5 years so my hope is she will catch her breath and quit leaking and smoking.
I have more peace when I consider that plan. I just hope that all the stories I hear about let 'em run their way out of it come true for me as well.
I believe the dyno is probably not worth it for me. The organizations that ordered and ran these buses over the years always had something most of us don't which is really healthy maintenance budgets.
I remember looking at a fellow busnut's brand spanking new Series 60 and two awseome buses and saying I hope I don't need pockets that deep to stay in the bus game. I'm still hoping that.
Thanks,
rick
Don, As I was trying to post this I noticed your email I will heed your advice and thanks for helping. It means alot to me.
I've been following this without comment, because the people who know are giving good advice! I will add a few tid bits about what my 8V92TA ran into, as expensive as it can get the 2,000 or 4,000 is cheap and this is why! I bought my engine with the idea of a complete rebuild and still did not know what the actual price could be! $4000 for a engine that had absolutely almost zero hours but it had sat around for many years! The crosshatching on the cylinders was still there when it was tore down, I ended up going with the newer style block for cooling reasons........heads too! by the time I had been to the local DD (which didn't work out for what ever the reason was) my friend in Concord NC stepped in and we took it to Jasper for rebuild and dyno! To make a long story short......this ended up costing around 24K by the time i was finished! What seems like alot right now......won't mean a thing if you have to pull it again somewhere away from home while vacation time is precious! Towing is expensive, downtime is expensive.......motels are expensive.......sometimes you just have to bite the bullett! Listen to Clifford and Don they know their stuff! Good luck!
I'm following this closely, as when spring rolls around and the temperature gets up again I will be making a decision on a repower or keep my 8V71. If I were in your shoes now - great running 8V71, rebuilt and proven good cooling system, pockets not deep enough for a no-holds barred engine program - there is no question in my mind that I would be sticking with the 8V71 until I proved that it couldn't do the job. I'd run it up that pass and down the other side, and if it did it in second gear (google says 7% grade and 11,000 feet) that would be fine with me.
I wouldn't necessarily get rid of the 8V92 right away, unless I got an offer to make me close to whole on it, but I might put it on a back burner for a while. No need to force the time-frame, since your bus is running well as it is. Just what is going through my mind hearing your story.
Brian
I honestly don't know what I would do without the input from this blog.
All your points are intelligent and well thought out.
You got me thinking... and that's a good thing
Rick
What Brian said. Even if it gets down to 30mph at the crest, As long as it makes it.
Rick
Rember thees coaches ran across country for many years and ours have more power than years ago They are under powered by today's standards but at the time were state of the art. I know its aggravating to see the speed limit of 55 but you can only go 35 but remember not long ago all the trucks use to crawl up the hills at 20 or 25mph b-4 they got over 500 hp
Rick 74 MC-8 8v71na
Rick, sent you a PM ;)