For those who are looking for better headlights for night driving, I have found what I think is a really good price. This young man who sells the kits works at a local O'Reilly's auto parts store. He is currently building a website to sell the lights direct but it is not quite finished.
He sells the ballast and wiring for $150 for the pair, if you need new housings because yours are sealed, they run an additional $20 and up depending on what they look like. Shipping is a flat rate of $11 in the US.
I have new lens housings for $60 and the ballasts/wiring for $150 on my 91 Prevost.
Talk about bright, he put a 50 W "brightstar" bulb in one side and a 35 W 9004 bulb in the other for demonstration purposes. The HID side starts off dimmer but within 15-20 exceeds the brightstar side by a huge margin. Like night and day in my Preovst, well pleased with the results.
If anyone is interested, I told him I would put the two of you together.
Rob
91 Prevost LeMirage XL
Missouri
I'll bite... mwchristian at gmail dot com =)
You can get HID retrofit kits for less than $100 (shipped) on eBay (http://stores.ebay.com/OBDmart). I've dealt with these guys before.
HID "retrofits" are generally illegal (I have them though) - if you look at your headlight, you will see a lamp type (9004, 9006, H1, H4, etc.), by putting in an HID bulb you are putting in a lamp that is not specified for the fixture, so the DOT compliance imprint is invalidated (all imprinted conditions on the lamp must be existent for the compliance to be valid).
A few rules-of-thumb if you DO decide to put in HIDs anyway:
- Never install HIDs in a DOT fixture - use an ECE fixture (european). DOT fixtures are "sloppy" with light handling (this of course is my opinion)
- Never put a single position/filament lamp in a lamp designed for dual filament/positions – you will lose High or Low-beam functions and will never pass an inspection (of course they will likely realize you have HIDs and fail you anyway)
- get the 4000-4300Kelvin lamps only, do not get the higher color temps – this merely makes the light blue-er not brighter (in fact the light output difference from 6000K HID to 4300K HID is -200lumens, from 6000K to 8000K is another -400lm). Also your Color Rendering Index (CRI) or your ability to make out colors gets reduced from 80 @ 4300K to around 65 @ 6000K (halogen bulbs are roughly 95+, daylight being 100, sodium street lights give you 0)
- Never use HIDs in a plastic lamp housing (only glass/metal), HIDs emit a LOT of UV (even though the arc capsule is surrounded by UV absorbing glass) which will quickly degrade the UV stabilizers in the plastic lens causing it to cloud and yellow after a few months (just look at the Mercedes E320s from a few years ago)
- go out and immediately aim your headlights correctly after putting in the HIDs, don’t wait a day or two if you have to drive
- EVERY time you stop for fuel, wipe your headlights clean – the thin film of dirt on the outside of a light can scatter/absorb up to 30% of the light that would typically get projected down the road. This adds to glare for oncoming drivers, and reduces your long-range visibility
Finally, don't whine about a ticket when you get caught… you were warned ;-)
-Tim
Is HID simply brighter than a normal bulb?
Going to Ecode with proper optics seems better than just flooding the road with more light.
HIDs are attractive to many for these reasons:
- Brighter (3100lumens vs 1500 f0r a 55W Halogen)
- Lower power draw (35W vs 55W or 65W)
- Longer life (5000hrs vs 1000-2000hrs for halogen)
- More durable (no filament to break)
Of course, LEDs are catching up to HID and share many of the same qualities - in two years or so LED forward lighting will be available for more than just Audi or the vehicles that can fit the 7" round Truck-Lite fixtures...
-Tim
These new super headlight systems just keep getting more and more expensive and I'm not convinced they make that much difference for the driver.
They sure make life miserable for oncoming drivers though.
Can these lamps be used as driving/auxilliary lighting?, or as high beam only? I presume they are not legal (yet) because of their greater brightness, and the risk of being poorly aimed, thus blinding other drivers?
Aimed correctly, they would be a real asset for those of us who drive mostly at night.
Keith
PCC
Rob -
As you probably know, headlights have been beaten to death on this BBS almost as much as which oil to use. I, along with several others, vociferously advocate the superior optics of the E-code headlamps such as Cibie, compared to the dismal optics of the standard US DOT lamps.
We're not talking wattage and/or lumens here, we're talking about the focus of the light pattern, which is, IMHO, far more important.
Since you've already spent the $$ on this HID system, might I make a suggestion?
Take your coach out on a dark country road, along with a friend in a chase car (not a pick-up). When you find a suitable, traffic-free spot, stop the coach in the traffic lane with the headlights on low beam.
Leave your friend with the coach, you take the chase car and drive at least a mile down the road. Turn around and drive back toward the bus, noting how your new headlights appear to you as the oncoming driver.
You know what it's like with these new lights behind the wheel, now you'll get an idea of how others are seeing you.
Report back here on your findings, we'll be waiting with lighted candles!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: Tim Strommen on January 25, 2010, 07:49:18 PM
HID "retrofits" are generally illegal (
I would not say "generally." They are, in fact, universally illegal in all 50 states for use on public roadways.
Enforcement is lax. However, if stopped, not only can you be cited, but you can be forced to have your vehicle towed to a safe place if you are unable to immediately produce compliant headlamps.
Moreover, you can be found civilly liable for any accident caused by the glare from your headlamps. It won't matter if the cause had nothing to do with the fact they were HID -- a clever lawyer will assert that your use of illegal lamps demonstrated a willful disregard of laws intended to protect other drivers, and the court will presume de facto that illegal lamps pose more danger than legal ones.
The feds have been trying, with little success, to shut these HID guys down for years. Every time they nail one, five others spring up. Most are offshore now and hard to touch. Buy your buddy at O'Reillys can easily be shut down, fined, or even face jail if he is found to be deliberately selling these for on-road use.
FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Quote from: Sean on January 25, 2010, 10:44:46 PM...universally illegal in all 50 states for use on public roadways...
This is the "generally" part - there is no law saying that these can't be used off-road (just like ECE light fixtures – off-road it’s the wild west…), thereby there is no law saying these kits cannot specifically be sold in the U.S. for off road use (which everyone I've seen is).
Quote from: Sean on January 25, 2010, 10:44:46 PM...Enforcement is lax...
I'd stretch that to "enforcement is darn near impossible and definitely impractical." The only way an officer would be able to tell if your lights are illegally retrofitted, is to look at the front of the lens and look at what bulb type is specified for the fixture and compare it to the installed type since there is such a thing as a legal retrofit if you buy the Sylvania kit, plus it is difficult to keep track of which makes/models/years had HID headlights as an option (that is not to say an officer would not have probable cause to pull you over and inspect your equipment which they would - see Sean's post for the result of that meeting). Also, there are many fixtures which are sold with a dual fitment (KC Hilites makes these aux driving/fog/off-road lights) the only physical difference between the HID (http://www.kchilites.com/store/6-Black-HIDbrLong-Range-System-661-P404C37.aspx) and 100W (http://www.kchilites.com/store/Black-Daylighter-br100w-System-238-P53C29.aspx) Halogen version is the installed bulb this makes differentiating the two essentially impossible from anywhere but within two feet of the fixture (where you can read the package badges, which many people remove [like me] because they are damn ugly [bright silver 3" tall letters H-I-D - like a "steal me" magnet]).
With the Blue Halogen imitation HID bulbs the racer kids are putting in cars today, there is a majority of the public that doesn’t know the difference between the look of a Halogen light or HID, they simply clump them all together as those darn bright blue lights the kids are using there is a subtle difference to HID and Halogen from a viewer's (on-coming) perspective, but a major difference from the driver's position.
That said, I'll stand by my original post, though I do not disagree with Sean (usually never need to): It's illegal (generally), don't use lights cooler than 4500K, don't use HIDs in plastic fixtures, level your lights correctly after changing the bulbs (of course this goes for ANY time you change the bulbs…), keep your lights clean to reduce glare and improve your distance visibility.
Oh and don't come crying to the board
when you get a ticket - :)
[Edit] Corrected aux light brand name [/Edit]Quote from: PCC on January 25, 2010, 10:21:21 PM…Can these lamps be used as driving/auxiliary lighting?, or as high beam only? I presume they are not legal (yet) because of their greater brightness, and the risk of being poorly aimed, thus blinding other drivers?...
I don’t know if I said it right, but to be crystal clear – HID retrofits to Halogen fixtures for use on-road (even in a small town) is illegal. The fixture must have been designed for HIDs and the beam must conform to U.S. DOT standards for the use of HID bulbs to be “legal”.
That said, there are legal routes to get HIDs in your bus. Hella makes 90mm projector assemblies that were specifically used for HID (VanHool uses these in several models), Osram Sylvania carried (carries? I don’t know if they still make it) an 8”x6” HID retrofit kit which includes the entire light fixture from ballast to lens face. There are several makers of HID driving lights and Aux Headlights (for use with low and high beams respectively). These are all legal because the fixture was originally designed to house and project the light from an HID light source.
Much like “home-brew” LED retrofits (which are just as illegal), the use of an otherwise “legal” technology does not preclude the need to ensure the entire fixture meets the standardized requirements for the fixture for the region it is operating in (which is actually the part that makes it “legal”).
Quote from: Sean on January 25, 2010, 10:44:46 PM...a clever lawyer will assert that your use of illegal lamps demonstrated a willful disregard of laws intended to protect other drivers, and the court will presume de facto that illegal lamps pose more danger than legal ones...
And maybe I had my fixtures tested (due diligence, my “intent” then being documented) and have the documentation to prove they meet the requirements (much like Dan Stern did), and maybe I don’t – that is for the “clever” lawyer to find out at his/her expense then be faced with the burden of proof that glare (a hotly debated topic in the scientific community, hardly a rock-solid “smoking gun”) was the direct and primary contributing factor to the crash (but that’s why I have the 8-channel DVR in the truck running 24/7 - to make
my life easier :) ).
-Tim
[EDIT] Correction, Dan Stern did not personally take up the challenge of having the fixtures tested, he simply listed the CalCoast Labs DOT tests (which by the way illustrated the most significant disparity between Halogen and crappy HID retrofits {single filament/position HID bulb in dual-filament/position fixture} – this pseudo science is exactly why U.S. DOT gets little respect from the general public on this matter – they stacked the test to fail miserably)[/EDIT]
Don't know a thing bout any of the lights, but I do know that I need more light!!! Have a set of eagle 15 single bulb in my bus. I would like more light but don't like the idea of another set of lights dangling off the front. Can the sealed lights that I have be changed to the brighter bulbs?
Eric -If the headlights on your Eagle are the type you can walk into any auto parts store and pick up off the shelf, then simply order a pair of Cibies. Follow the instructions that come with the lamps to aim them, and you'll be a happy camper. BTDTANANA
http://www.cibieusa.com/cibie_main_frameset.htm (http://www.cibieusa.com/cibie_main_frameset.htm)
Click on the "SAE Standard Euro-Code Headlamps" phrase to take you to the lamp selection page. As you scroll down the page that pops up, I think you'll find that the 200mm-HCR or 200mm-HCRAs are the ones you'll need.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: Ericbsc on January 26, 2010, 06:45:45 AM
Don't know a thing bout any of the lights, but I do know that I need more light!!! Have a set of eagle 15 single bulb in my bus. I would like more light but don't like the idea of another set of lights dangling off the front. Can the sealed lights that I have be changed to the brighter bulbs?