We are setting out for Donner pass, tomorrow at 8am. It looks like we will have to chain up. We just talked with our buddy at the CHP, and he said that they want to see chains on BOTH tires of the duels. He said buses too :(.
Plus, we need to have chains on the tag, but we are not a commercial vehicle, so we might not have to do that...We have cable chains, and regular heavy duty old chains. So we can do the tag and one outer drive. Problem is, we don't have chains for the duels :(. We were going to get them...but...we were told we didn't need them ;).
So here are my questions. Does anybody know of an actual CA exemption for us to not have to put chains on both tires of the duels? Where can we buy chains for the duels, in the northwest portion of Sacramento on Sunday? And any other tips?
Thanks.
God bless,
John
take hi way 49 around the pass? a long way around.....are you in reno or auburn? as auburn has a place that makes chains,or at least they used to. but not on sunday. i say take the day and go to church in nevada city or grass valley then go on monday or after the pass is open in the afternoon. if you are in reno there are some places to get good meals cheap and great campgrounds at the old reno hilton.
I think that road that Dezi & Lucy took on the movie with their new camper was on Hwy 49; real curvy and gets real lonley when snow hits, gets closed a lot too, but other than that it is one of the prettiest hwys out here. The best road I can think of over the pass is I80, just because their is lots of snow equipment and plenty of people around to help if you get in trouble. If you're snow shy, wait a day and see if the weather report changes, there is 90% chance of snow Sunday, but it gets less after that. Here is a link to road conditions
http://www.safetravelusa.com/nv/ (http://www.safetravelusa.com/nv/)
Here is a link to some cameras on 80, but as of now, most of the cameras are even snowed in or frozen over
http://www.magnifeye.com/ (http://www.magnifeye.com/)
Ray D
John,
Here is a link to California chain requirements:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/ChainRequire.pdf (http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/ChainRequire.pdf)
Thanks, guys. I missed the "if possible" part. I doubt that it will be "possible."
Anyways, we are on a schedule. We have the wiggle room going over the pass, but we have to come back over on Tuesday. That one will be the tight one...lol.
So thanks for all the help. It is MUCHO appreciated!.
God bless,
John
Just watch the pass carefully, one hour it's snowing and the next you can get through with no chains. They clean I80 very fast and have it down to an art, just be patient, and who knows, the sun might show up tomorrow.
Ray D
If you're on the Ca. side and need some help, give me a call. I will post here if I see an opening for you.
530-237-6256
20 is a nice ride also takes you 20 miles from truckee. goes through nevada city which is nice.
John -
Been following your adventures and my heart goes out to you. Having been forced to drive those conditions for so long, I'd never willingly do it again... bad things happen real fast on ice (or just plain 'ol snow). If you have any alternative choice, take it.
Not to nag, but you sound in a rush? That's a real bad mind set for those conditions (don't ask how i know :-X ). It's not easy, but try to quiet your mind and take it slow. And, please, be extra careful.
God Speed.
Nellie
For the dial-up crowd, the California regulations in the downloadable pdf file provided by wildbob suggest:
For Buses/Recreational Vehicles:
Drive axle must be chained, and inside dual chained if possible.
Tag axles need no chains.
Chaining one wheel per side, either inner or outer dual, constitutes having chained the drive axle, however, the picture shows they want both chained, "if possible" doesn't mean your physical struggle, the test is whether they fit on there.
Trouble is, you can be sure every CHiP has seen a bus of some kind put a full set on, and will expect nothing less from us. They don't want to find us blocking the road later....
And the CHiP has final say with the catch-all that they may prohibit a vehicle which they think may have "difficulty" in the chain control area.
So, to put it to bed, a busnut would be well advised to have a full set of dual wheel chains or cables.
To store these, I keep two of those plastic Home Depot buckets for the purpose, one set of chains carefully lowered into each, so they come out untangled and ready to go. The buckets keep them neat, and easier to carry around than struggling with all those interconnected serpents.
To go all out, six of those good commercial black rubber bungee cords per install, properly sized to put a bit of tension on the loose bits of chain. Make an "X" on the outer side, centered on the hub, make a square on the inside, hooked to the same links across the tread on the inside as the ones on the outside. The 4 inside ones will be a bit shorter, the outside a bit longer
Spray paint the connecting ends a bright colour so you can more readily find them while slinging them on.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
would one be best advised to look for chain chains or cable chains?
Brian
And john, if your going over the pass, don't forget the usual condiments, the steak sauce, pepper and if possible a salt substitute lol.
Brian, as always, a compromise must be reached whether one chooses full chains or cables.
My opinion, no one needs to subscribe:
Cables fulfill the letter of the law, are smoother to run on, but won't give nearly the traction if you really need it. Cables won't store in as small a space, since the cable won't bend.
FWIW, Greyhound uses cables, a mass of rusty mess thrown into a baggage bay corner.
A snowbound busnut might be more likely to need their chains at home to maneuver for parking purposes than out on the highway? a slope of any kind in the yard at home with a layer of hard pack will put the bus into the gully and won't come out.
After you've seen/lived how ridiculously little it takes to get a coach stuck, you might be scarred for life!
For a busnut, the chains offer a smaller footprint in the coach, get you your pass to drive into the chain control area the rest of the season, since you have to have them even when it is sunny out, and if it is chain-up time, you know you're running with the best you can, even if it is bumpy, and most busnuts can choose to park until the chain orders come down, avoiding getting the nice epoxy coating marked up!
But, only my opinion, I am damaged goods.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Chains? Cables? Steak sauce? All great advice!
Mine? Fuhgedaboudit! If it drops below 45o, turn south. If it's still cold? Huddle up, break out the hot toddies and wait for decent weather.
But like I've said before, I'm a wus.
Nellie Wilson :)
John, please be safe, and dont get in a hurry. I know we travel with a schedule also, and it can be tough at times. We use to live in colorado, and had to leave out of there to go to our jobs. It could be quite scary at times in the winter. That is the main reason we moved south, athough we also were tired of the cold. We have been on ice a few times, not fun. We were outside of salina, Kansas once, and there was a tour bus ahead of us from the deaf school in colo. springs. Well, all of a sudden they hit a patch of ice and the bus went sliding, and flipped. Stuff flew everywhere. Thanks God there was only a few small injuries. We also hit the ice and slid sideways for a while, but regained control. Since then, I am freaked out when we have to do stores in the snow prone areas. Anyhow, take care, Ruthi
I'm with Nellie. If chains are required I will wait until they are not required. I don't generally head out west on I80 past the first week of October. At that time of year any snow should be under control before too long.
I had a bad enough experience last year with a mountain snow storm that I don't want to repeat it if I can help it.
Quote from: John316 on January 23, 2010, 10:10:57 PM
We are setting out for Donner pass, tomorrow at 8am. It looks like we will have to chain up. We just talked with our buddy at the CHP, and he said that they want to see chains on BOTH tires of the duels. He said buses too :(.
Plus, we need to have chains on the tag, but we are not a commercial vehicle, so we might not have to do that...We have cable chains, and regular heavy duty old chains. So we can do the tag and one outer drive. Problem is, we don't have chains for the duels :(. We were going to get them...but...we were told we didn't need them ;).
So here are my questions. Does anybody know of an actual CA exemption for us to not have to put chains on both tires of the duels? Where can we buy chains for the duels, in the northwest portion of Sacramento on Sunday? And any other tips?
Thanks.
God bless,
John
The old 49'r truck stop would be my first thought
Snow is not predicted on the pass till this afternoon. It is not raining at the bottom in the valley yet, you should have plenty of time to get over. I checked the cameras on 80 and traffic is moving well. If you do hit snow (as it can change fast) you can simply turn around. The CHP will give you that option before it gets too bad.
Ray D
In 21 years and 1.3 million miles of driving cross country truck, I NEVER chained up. If chains were required, I waited till they weren't. I always carried cable chains (because of their light weight), but never came out of their boxes. I had to wait 2 days one time in Wyoming (Wyoming wisely just shuts down the highway when chains are required), but that was the only time. Mostly, the next day is blazingly bright and beautiful.
Donner is a nasty pass when it is dry. Please don't push your luck. Good Luck, TomC
Thanks for the advice, guys. We will "push" things a bit, and proceed without a set of chains for the duals. We are hoping we don't have to chain up, but we will see.
We will get a full set of duals, as soon as we can.
BW, good advice. We have the bungee's for the outside, and I like your advice about painting the points.
Nellie, we are on a schedule, but we aren't in a rush going this direction. That is why we are heading up when it looks like we have the best chance of getting over without chaining up.
Cody, great ideas...lol.
Ruthi, thank you for your concern. We will take it slow, and careful. That is the "joy" of winter driving.
DaveG, yup, the 49'r was the one that I called, but they are quite a ways south. We will try to pick up a set in Reno.
Ray, we should be over the pass by then, Lord willing. After that, it is Tuesday that we are coming back. I hope there is a break for us then. We will stay in contact with our buddy at the CHP, and see what he says.
TomC, we will follow your advice, whenever possible ;).
Thanks again for the concern and advice. It is very appreciated!
God bless,
John
Quote from: John316 on January 23, 2010, 10:52:19 PM
Thanks, guys. I missed the "if possible" part. I doubt that it will be "possible."
Anyways, we are on a schedule. We have the wiggle room going over the pass, but we have to come back over on Tuesday.
If you are coming back, why take the coach? Have you ever BEEN over Donner? If you are only going to Reno, rent a car and get a motel room. You will be a lot happier and actually save money over buying chains and paying to have them installed.
My rule is that I only chain when someone will be seriously harmed if I don't. If there is any other alternative (including "just plain don't go") I will take that.
Having gone over Donner both ways on Friday, I can tell you that there is NO WAY that I would take my coach there this week. I had a 4WD and didn't have any trouble, but saw way too many accidents and injuries to risk it with 30,000 lbs on 8 tires. I saw one accident where a jerk in a pickup tried to make a lane change, slid out and hit the median, then took out a semi (putting the semi driver in the hospital).
Quote from: bevans6 on January 24, 2010, 07:18:17 AM
would one be best advised to look for chain chains or cable chains?
Chain chains provide a lot more traction and are more durable.
Cable chains are easier to put on and to carry.
If the objective is to meet the letter of the law, use cables. If the objective is to actually GET THERE, use chains.
Thanks, BG6. We really don't have any other option but to take the coach. And I do feel comfortable installing the chains.
We will see how it goes...
God bless,
John
Quote from: Nellie Wilson on January 24, 2010, 07:50:10 AM
Chains? Cables? Steak sauce? All great advice!
Just FYI, the steak sauce is a joke. Look up "Donner Party," for whom the pass and lake are named.
We are over Donner Pass, right now. We stopped for a second, so I thought I would update you all.
That pass wasn't a big deal. It was snowing, and somewhat icy, but overall we have been in much worse. So this direction was okay...Tuesday? That could be interesting, but I don't anticipate any issues.
Thanks again.
God bless,
John
did he ever say if he was going east or west?
We just went East...Tuesday we will be going West.
God bless,
John
Quote from: desi arnaz
did he ever say if he was going east or west?
Yes as a matter of fact he did! Quote from: John316
We are setting out for Donner pass, tomorrow at 8am. It looks like we will have to chain up. We just talked with our buddy at the CHP, and he said that they want to see chains on BOTH tires of the duels. He said buses too :(.
Where can we buy chains for the duels, in the northwest portion of Sacramento on Sunday? And any other tips?
Thanks.
God bless,
John
And then again! Quote from: John316
DaveG, yup, the 49'r was the one that I called, but they are quite a ways south. We will try to pick up a set in Reno.
John
And then YES in answer to you asking again.
Quote from: John316
We just went East...Tuesday we will be going West.
John
sorry i didint pick it up.....
Ya get a Busted Knuckle for that.....
FWIW, my first choice would be the coach in a snowstorm over any smaller vehicle.
Coach spells stable footing.
Pretty much impossible to disrupt your path of travel, snow drifts and rutting will disrupt a sport ute.
Everything stops relatively the same in the snow.
the ONLY condition that a coach is tricky is ice, time to park, but then , so will be the rest of them.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Removed
Yeh, right, trains can't even stay on their tracks on the feather river canyon.....
Ray D
John -
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
"Don't waste your hard-earned $$$ on chains to fit your duals"
CalTrans knows, as does the CHP, that it's extremely difficult to chain the duals on intercity buses. That's why the CalTrans website pointed out earlier the "if possible" for bus chain requirements.
I talked to a friend of mine yesterday who's a dispatcher for a charter outfit in the SF Bay area - he told me that they only chain the outside dual on their Prevosts, and haven't had any problems getting thru when chains are required.
While you're in Reno, why don't you call Amador Stages's and ask them? They're actually based in Sacramento, and run over the hill daily, year-round. 775-324-4444 is the local number for the Reno office, be sure to ask for dispatch when they answer.
As for the weather, the forecast is for heavy snow at Truckee on Monday, with snow showers on Tuesday, cloudy Wednesday. Translation - leave Reno about 1330 - 1400. That will be near the tail end of the weather front, so 80 should be open w/o restrictions. Departing in the early afternoon should put you into Sacratomato somewhere between 1700 - 1730, considering the reduced speeds you'll be traveling over Donner.
Dallas's suggestion to take 70 thru the Feather River Canyon is also a good one, altho it's roughly 90 miles and 2.5 hours longer. Often, it's the only way over the Sierras from Reno when I-80 closes - even if Ray's teasing Dallas about his suggestion. BTDTHTS!
Main thing, as you've found, is to take your time and don't rush in the adverse conditions. You're in one of the safest vehicles to travel in, you'll be fine - white knuckles and all!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
P.S. If you really are up for a ride, then take 395 south out of Reno all the way down the back side of the Sierras to Ridgecrest, then into Lancaster/Palmdale. Or out of Ridgecrest to Victorville, picking up I-15 home. Long day, and then some, going this route. Interesting drive for you, tho!
Sounds like the first leg of John's adventure is over, thankfully without resorting to steak sauce. I anxiously await the sequel... tentatively entitled "Look Ma, No Chains."
Quote from: BG6 on January 24, 2010, 10:48:35 AM
Just FYI, the steak sauce is a joke.
Gee, BG6, glad you cleared that up.
I was thinking it was a tribute to one of Santa's lesser known reindeer... you know, what with it being so high and the snow and all. :D
Hey , BK... were they going east or west? ???
Nellie
Hey , BK... were they going east or west? Huh
Nellie
Nellie, Just remember the old American saying " Go West Young Man" they were heading west but left late and paid for their mistake. I guess that's why I like to be early where ever I'm going, but I always carry a bottle of Sweet Baby Ray's just in case.
WVaNative
Donner? party of 87,86,85,84............
Removed
I had forgotten about him..... ;D
Thanks for the replies, guys. We will decide on the route tomorrow. We will see what happens ;). It could be feather canyon, or 395 to I-15. Hopefully I-80 is open, which I expect it to be. The question will be whether we have to chain up. We will see on that.
I think we are going to have to chain up the tag too. http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/ChainRequire.pdf (http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/ChainRequire.pdf) RJ, any thoughts on this? We will save the $$$ for the duals...
And, don't worry. We won't rush. Rushing takes too much time.
We are actually in Carson City. We could have taken highway 50 over, and saved about an hour. But we didn't, because 50 is a two lane. We can see 50 coming down from the mountains, where we are parked. There has been quite the stream of traffic coming down, but we have also seen emergency vehicles heading up (we can tell from the lights).
Anyways, thanks a lot for your help. We are really grateful.
God bless,
John
Quote from: John316 on January 25, 2010, 09:33:01 AM
Thanks
I think we are going to have to chain up the tag too. http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/ChainRequire.pdf (http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/ChainRequire.pdf) RJ, any thoughts on this? We will save the $$$ for the duals...
God bless,
John
Reread the pdf from dot. In the notes section at the bottom is says that tag axle chains are not required.
Look at the Bus/RV picture at the top Marked type 3. It shows a non powered tag axle with no chains required. (the picture shows a dual tag but the info is still clear no chains required on a tag axle)
Thanks, Wanna. I reread that, and I agree...thanks.
God bless,
John
What do you all think about taking highway 50 over the mountains? Up past lake Tahoe, and then over. We don't have a problem going over Donner, but somebody told us that we would have a better chance getting over on 50. They said that they shut down 80, whenever there is a wreck. However, they said that there is fewer wrecks on 50 because people drive slower on 50, hence less wrecks.
What do you think? Highway 50, or 80 over Donner?
We are thinking 80 over Donner, but I thought I would check.
God bless,
John
QuoteAlferd Packer was invited, but he had his own party and ordered ala carte.
On my first trip to Colorado, my top priority was to dine at the Alfred E. Packer Grill (my second being the Coors Brewery).
Gotta admire a guy who could stomach that many Democrats. :)
As you see, us Canucks stay abreast of the higher points of U.S. history.
Nellie Wilson
Removed
50 compared to 80
If 50 is closed for a wreck or avalanche it snarls traffic 10 times longer than 80 as it is 2 lanes, sometimes it is closed for days, very sharp corners and a huge sheer cliff, pretty though, so it depends on your'e snow and ice driving skills. Mileage wise it is probably less to go 50, but I would beat you going 80 any old time.
Any road but 80 and you are looking at less places to pull over, less help, fewer people, sharper curves, steeper grades & more ice (less traffice to keep it off), so adjust you're time to take in the tourist routes this time of the year.
Ray D
Thanks, Ray. You confirmed what I was thinking. We are going 80. You had sound advice. Thanks!
God bless,
John
NJD -
History repeats: You win the contest again! Actually, I only spelled it "Alfred" so nobody would think me a poor speller (and if you believe that, I have this great land in Florida... :))
Nellie
We are back over Donner pass. Thank you all for your suggestions, and tips.
We did have to chain up, but it wasn't a big deal (especially for being our first time to chain up). The roads weren't a big deal either. If they wouldn't have had chain control, we wouldn't have chained up, but what can you say ;D. We just chained up the out dual...
So thanks again, gents. I now know that chaining up isn't a problem. In the future? Places where chains are required, we will do it anyways. Probably no more routes around snow. Now that we know chains aren't a big deal to install...we will just slap them on in the future, no big deal.
God bless,
John
John -
Next time you come thru Fresno, I can teach you how to hang those chains and be rolling again in 10 minutes!
Then you can impress the charter drivers!
:D
Quote from: RJ on January 26, 2010, 04:45:56 PM
John -
Next time you come thru Fresno, I can teach you how to hang those chains and be rolling again in 10 minutes!
Then you can impress the charter drivers!
:D
Thanks, RJ. I figure next time we should be even faster. It took us 15 minutes this time. I have no doubt that next time we can be rolling a lot faster, because we now know how to do it. We hadn't had time to even do a practice run, before, so not to bad for the first time.
We do want to stop by and see you sometime. Mostly to see whether we can beg some coaching out of you. I know there is always ways we can improve.
God bless,
John