It has been a while since I have been on this board but has anyone ever used a fuel additive called FPPF Lubricity Plus Fuel Power? Does it work in our ol 2 cycle engines like my DD671? Or is this just another flim-flam product? I appreciate your input........T Chellis
I will get flamed for this...but...in my opinion any fuel additive is snake oil!
Jack
Just do the math, for all the fuel that gets sold by competing companies, all the fleets and commercial interests that run millions of dollars worth of equipment, if there was something that made it better, wouldn't it already be in there?
I'm with jackhjr, snake oil.
My only small exception for diesel additives is for the anti-gelling product of your choice in arctic conditions, which precious few busnuts experience. But if you purchase fuel locally to your arctic temps there's even less to worry about... IIRC, the fuel in Yellowknife NWT was blended good to -40 or so by itself, other arctic jurisdictions will be similar.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Due to the way snakes store their fat, a Proper Amount of a Properly Industrialy Squeezed Snake(PAPISS) will cause the fuel to slither through the pump and injectors with lubricity scales and has to be replaced due to molting. :D
That being said, I always add something because our diesel is pretty low on the cetane scale. They will only say it is better than 40 if they have heard of it. Just what I do, YMMV ;)
FPPF is an anti-gel. I don't know how good it is. I have used it and had no gelling. I also had no gelling when I didn't use it. It was the recommended additive for JB Hunt. I generally had good results using no additive. That said this new fuel (ultra low sulfur) seems to gel quicker than the old stuff. Here is a memo that explains it much better than I can.
The Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) that we started to receive in mid 2006 has shown some
dramatically different cold weather characteristics from the earlier High Sulfur Diesel.
The major challenge today is the increase in gelling, wax dropout, icing and the difficulty in
treating the new ULSD, due to the higher outside temperatures that ULSD and Bio- Diesel will
gel and the ineffectiveness of most market anti-gel products. There are an increase number of
trucks that are out of service because of gelling, resulting in plugged filters as a result of Paraffin
Wax. There are also an increased number of trucks with icing problems.
Paraffin Wax is a natural and important part of diesel fuel. It provides several benefits including
BTU's, lubricity, stability and viscosity. The main problems with Paraffin Wax revolves around
cold weather operation that includes gelling and something new that is referred to as wax drop
out. "Wax Drop Out" occurs when fuel is "Cold Saturated". This is when fuel reaches a given
temperature and stays at or below that temperature for 48 to 72 hours. When the fuel reaches this
point it will cause the wax to agglomerate and fall to the bottom, plugging filters and fuel lines.
This problem will remain until it is removed or the fuel temperature is raised until it is able to
reabsorb the wax (often 40 to 50 degrees). This can make the process of getting an engine with
gelled fuel to run properly far more challenging than we have ever seen before.
Water is more of a problem than ever before. Diesel and bio-diesel fuels hold water dissolved in
them. ULSD is able to hold more water than the HSD or the LSD diesel fuels. When the
temperature goes down the water is pushed out of the fuel and droplets can be seen floating in the
fuel. When temperatures reach or go below 32 degrees those droplets freeze and become ice
crystals. These are the crystals that plug the lines and filters.
As a result of these characteristics many cold weather problems are not with gelling but with fuel
icing problems. If you have operability issues in temperatures above 0 degrees you should check
to be sure that you aren't dealing with ice.
You can avoid this problem if you do a couple of things to help yourself. First, add fuel additive
before you get into temperatures that are below freezing. Second, mix your fuel with the fuel in
the area as soon as you can. Tennessee fuel is not mixed to function in Wisconsin.
To make this problem even worse many of the diesel fuel anti-gel additives products that have
been on the market for the last 5 to 30 years do not work. The change in the chemistry brought
about by low sulfur technology has made them ineffective.
From some of my trucking buddies, one of the best anti gelling additives is plain old kerosene. Getting fuel blended for the temps you are in is very important also. A lot of trucks run Artic Foxes that circulates engine coolant through the fuel tanks to keep them from gelling. Also remember these busses we have ran up and down the roads during winter conditions a lot.
We've been over this ground before, ad nauseam:
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11261.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11261.0)
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=7033.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=7033.0)
If you are experiencing gelling problems, this is one of the few reasons to add something, specifically an anti-gelling agent. Otherwise, stick with DD's recommendation against fuel additives.
FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Gelling is going to be a problem only with a DD if it sets in below 0 for long periods of time with summer grade fuel, the fuel when running is returned back to the tank at engine tempatures buy winter grade fuel for the area you are in and don't waste your money.
good luck
The only time I had gelling was with a brand new F350. It came from the factory with about half a tank of fuel. The dealer filled the tank to full. Either the factory or the dealer (or both) had apparently added summer blend fuel. You would think a dealer in December in Minnesota would have the right fuel so I suspect the factory.
A few days after I picked up the truck it was -9F one day. The truck started up okay, but it died about a mile from home just after I got on the interstate. I called for a tow to the dealer. Luckily, a state patrol officer stopped because I was freezing. He took me home since I was so close.
The truck started fine at the dealer, but it had sat in the sun for a number of hours waiting to go in the service bay. They ran all sorts of diagnostics and no further problems.
Busnuts will most likely get water in the fuel by way of condensation sitting around with part empty tanks, not by way of the fuel.
Same old drill, RUN and DRIVE the coach regularly, fill the fuel tanks before parking it, every time.
Same for commercial enterprise. If the truck is habitually parked before the weekend with the tanks empty, lots of opportunity for condensation to accumulate to hijack cool weather running.
Filling the fuel tanks at the end of the shift pays dividends.
Same as air systems, those with old time religion in their care and feeding habits, the fewer problems under adverse conditions.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: Chopper Scott on December 27, 2009, 06:53:38 AM
From some of my trucking buddies, one of the best anti gelling additives is plain old kerosene. Getting fuel blended for the temps you are in is very important also. A lot of trucks run Artic Foxes that circulates engine coolant through the fuel tanks to keep them from gelling. Also remember these busses we have ran up and down the roads during winter conditions a lot.
The only problem when you add "KEROSENE" to diesel fuel (it will work ) that you lower the BTU's of the fuel and your fuel mileage will be less!
Steve 5B.......
We always just 'cut' the fuel with 5% kerosine. i.e. 300 gallons capacity would only be 30 gallons of kero.
Jack
I'm not sure why one would add kerosene? Do they not sell winter blend fuel in your area? I suppose if you haul cross country from a warm area you might need fuel again before you need winter blend fuel.
Yes, fuel economy with diesel vehicles goes down in the winter due to blending of #1 and #2 diesel.
Actually we did it back in the early 80's when the temp in TX would get down around 5 degrees and they did not blend back then.
Jack
Quote from: jackhartjr on December 27, 2009, 07:12:29 PM
We always just 'cut' the fuel with 5% kerosine. i.e. 300 gallons capacity would only be 30 gallons of kero.
Jack
Jack in TN math 5% of 300 would be 15 gallons not 30.
In our math 30 is 10% ;D
;D BK ;D
I'm sorry I'll go hide now.
Bryce, I stand corrected, it is and was 15 gallons. Thanks for correcting that.
By the way, if you put too much kerosine in it you may screw up the whirrlybirds in there, kerosine have little lubricity.
Jack
Actually even blended fuel poses some problems with temps a ways below 0. I already talked to some buds that had gelling problems lately when the temps hit -5.
Hi Guys,
Sorry for the Delay in my reply, I have been away for the holidays.
I figured you guys would have the knowledge on this. In Ohio we are used to dealing with gelling . That is interesting about adding a little Kerosene....Never heard that one before.
Many thanks again to all of you for your input. Until the next time I'll be just another bus jockey in my ol 4104..........T. Chellis