Hi Guy's,
I wonder if any of our Valuable Members can give me some input on Mod inverters..
My dad has an 04' Monaco LaPalma and he has no inverter in the coach. He has 50A service
and all the high end goodies in it too but, he wants to install an inverter just to run the 1 curcuit
that carries his 2 flat screen tv's and his microwave. I tried to nudge him to buy a pure sine inverter
but, he just dosen't want to fork out the funds for one. Question? Do Modified sine inverters effect
the circuitry in flat screen tv's? And the Microwave for that matter too? I know in the past I heard alot
of stories about curcuitry that don't like modified waves..?>
Thanks in advance
Nick-
We have a freedom 458 thats a modified sine wave, our microwave and tv's seem to like it just fine, we are installing a Magnum 2800 pure sine wave but it's only to get the additional power ability.
Our sharp lcd tv works fine on our modified sine inverter (Trace) The microwave works fine but the timer goes twice as fast. If you want the micro to run for 1 minute set it for two.
I have an old Trace 2512 modified sine wave. Just installed a flat screen-it works fine on it. The Sharp microwave hums on inverter and cooks slower. Also the exhaust fan for the stove runs slower. I would suggest the Magnum 2800watt. Call Dick Wright at Wrico International-he'd be happy to talk to you about it. Good Luck, TomC
Nick,
I have talked to Knuts that bought Freedom 458 and others in that series. They had excellent results powering things that are not supposed to run on MSW. Others that tried MSW had dismal results. From what little I know all MSW units are not the same and produce widely variant square waves. The tighter the "chop" the more it looks like a sine wave. It takes really big capacitors and coils to make this work well. What you really need to know is "what works". The Freedom 458 is one that does especially well. The Freedom Marine is also top notch, I am told. I think PVCCESS has a few that work well driving electronics although I wonder what his use might be. There is a type of AC motor that is destroyed by the MSW and I thought it was the kind in a roof top AC unit but many seem to have that working also.
John
I also have the 458 and my microwave will not start most of the time. Tom Y
Nick, not all TVs like the MS it depends on the manufacture and the power supply, some brands of MW have problems also any induction type motor or cook top won't run off MS but if he wants to make coffee and watch a little TV they are fine. A PSW inverter would be a nice Christmas gift for him LOL
good luck
If you check the input specs on a lot of consumer electronic items these days, they actually accept a wide range of input voltage and frequency. Both my computers (laptops with power supply modules in the line cord) are good to go with either 120 VAC 60 Hz or 240 VAC 50 Hz European spec. inputs. That typically means that they take the input and power up an internal switching power supply that can make gold from garbage... They will work perfectly with a typical cheap MSW inverter, I run my TV from one that costs about $29. As everybody points out, the issues are with units that actually use the electricity and frequency directly for something - that's motors, clocks, transformer driven devices, resistive elements. So the TV will almost always be good to go, while the microwave will almost always not perform to spec and waste a lot of power.
For little things like radios and small TV's I'm starting to favor small inverters spotted at the point of use. Since I distribute 12 VDC with 10 gauge most places, I can just get little 150 watt inverters for almost nothing and produce my low current 120 VAC where i need it. As long as you locally fuse the thing, I don't see a drawback to that.
Brian
Nick,
we have the 458 2012 and works fine with most things, including TV's and MW. i did notice the APC UPS we have on the outlet for the printer doesn't care for it, and i burnt up my sears 19v battery charger. that thing was toast almost immediately.
our laptop computers have no complaints, but the coffee clock gets out of whack quick. i got up at 6:30 one morning to find out it was 4:30 :(.
we have 2 relatively new small flatscreens, newer directv receiver, and a bunch of computer stuff.
stop by at the rally, if you can get thru the snow to get here.
Nick I was talking to a friend of mine this morning, he's an electronics engineer and his thoughts on this are that it's the quality of the components that seem to dictate the compatability, he said he's fairly familier with the 458 series and the guts are of a fairly high level, much more so that some others that he's tinkered with, he said that like anything else the modified sine wave can be a low grade wave pattern or a close to high grade wave pattern, closer to the chops of a pure sine wave. That coupled with the forgiving nature of some of the electronics that are in tv's or microwaves will do more to determine how they will react, some microwaves require a very narrow range of frequency while others are more forgiving, he's a true nerd in every sence of the word, he got his degree from MIT, so that shows the level of nerd he is, I tryed to follow his thoughts to relay them and I think I missed it close, I think it all boiled down to getting what you pay for lol. Have you guys looked at RV Surplus or Bontragers for the inverters, they had some that were pretty good on quality and price, I got my Magnum 2800 for about 800 when it runs up around 2 grand normally and at Bontragers they had some 458's in the 450 range, that was last summer, not sure what they have now tho.
NIck,
Both TVs and the DVD work fine on MSW but the Dish reciever buzzes. It works, but I'm not sure I'm doing it any favors running it on the inverter. Microwave sounds like its on Prozac and the AC won't even come on, just humms. I will definitely go with Pure sine if and when I have to swap out. Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck, Will
Hi Guy's,
All of your input convinced my dad to go with the Pure Sine Inverter... Thanks!!
I called my buddy Chris at Tekris Power here in Jersey and he sold us a real nice Xantrax
at my dealer cost but, he has it on sale real cheep too... I will have it tomorrow..
Check it out!
http://www.tekrispower.com/inverters/product_info.php/cPath/22_54/products_id/828?osCsid=e8b22a1f0d5362d2f17efd86238b7a52 (http://www.tekrispower.com/inverters/product_info.php/cPath/22_54/products_id/828?osCsid=e8b22a1f0d5362d2f17efd86238b7a52)
Thanks Again and
Merry Christmas
Nick-
Merry Xmas to you and yours Nick, I think you really scored on that inverter. Thanks for sharing the link. It almost seems too good to be true. I put one on my Xmas wish list ;D Will & Wife
Is it the 3 stage chargers that run the price up in inverters? I've seen so many that don't have the charger that seem very reasonably priced but as soon as a person adds the charger to the equation the price triples or more.
Thanks Will, Same to you!!
The inverter just arrived at my shop and Dad & I are planning out a materials list now. I ordered the remote switch, & the 300a fuse block
but, I forgot to order a batt disconnect..*@%*@#.. Ok, no problem.. I will run to West Marine for that..
Hi Cody, yes... the chargers do add to the cost along with upscale remote panels.
Nick-
What is the standby draw on these inverters (which look really very good, btw)? I live in fear of forgetting to turn the inverter off and draining the batteries even if the inverter isn't supplying a load.
Brian
Quote from: bevans6 on December 23, 2009, 12:39:05 PM
What is the standby draw on these inverters (which look really very good, btw)? I live in fear of forgetting to turn the inverter off and draining the batteries even if the inverter isn't supplying a load.
Brian
Brian I can't answer yer question, but a good fear I must add as I have seen it happen back when I was driving trucks on a regular basis! (and don't ask me how I know this! ;), but I was one of the few truckers out there that had quick connect jumper cables made to jump my refer units from the tractors & vise versa! ;), )
Now on the other hand I think these days most of the inverters have a low voltage shut off built in. And even the high end units offer a setting that you determine what voltage they shut off at! (I think!)
;D BK ;D
Brian,
I recall seeing inverters that had a offline draw of .1 amps. They use that draw to power a circuit that checks the inverter load for a "need" to invert. There seems to be three modes that draw.....in use, relaxed after use and in some sort of deep slumber from which it will awaken automatically.
There are some uncommon features that are worth looking into as along as you are spending large. One is the ability to look at the current draw "from the pole" or generator and see an overload coming. The inverter syncs up with the ac and adds ac power from the bats to keep the pole breaker from tripping. That might come into play when you want to run two AC units from a 30 amp pole. While the pole can run them it needs help to start one with the other running or two simultaneously. Neat huh?
The other is that the inverter will cheat the bat charger as the input ac current demand for appliances fluctuates. It is set to "always" give the charger as mush as it possibly can without popping the pole breaker.
Then there is being able to sync an inverter to another source to allow making 220.....two inverters. If I needed 4 KW i think I would be tempted to get two 2 K units and run two 120 phases and be able to have 220 for whatever.
2 cents,
John
There are a very limited number of inverters that can be ganged for 220 volts or do load sharing. The Trace 4024 inverter did load sharing, but it is discontinued I believe.
It looks like the Xantrex RS3000 will do the load sharing, but it doesn't appear to be stackable Magnum Energy has an inverter that does 240 volt with one inverter or they have one model that can be stacked. They are both 24 volt 4000 watt inverters.
I have stacked inverters for 220V all the better inverters can be stacked that I know of
good luck
Quote from: luvrbus on December 23, 2009, 03:49:57 PM
I have stacked inverters for 220V all the better inverters can be stacked that I know of
It can certainly be done. The problem is most of the inverters targeted at the RV market don't do stacking. I've listed above the only two I could find on a quick search. I am pretty sure the Xantrex/Trace SW4024 does it, but it appears to be discontinued.
Outback makes some nice (not cheap!) inverters, but their mobile inverters make no mention of stacking.
There are three esses (sss) involved with these inverters and they are easily confused. Sharing, stacking and supplementing. Some dealers seem perfectly willing to sell an inverter whether the customer knows what he is buying or not.
To keep it simple, power sharing is only the ability to cut back charger draw when there are heavy loads. Many full inverter chargers have this feature. This feature is intended to prevent tripping of shore power breakers unnecessarily.
Power supplementing, also called generator supplementing, will use battery power when the generator cannot carry the full load and resume charging batteries when the load drops. This feature is intended to maintain voltage on the power line. I only know of one brand of inverter that does this. That is Trace. Not all models do this. The SW series and the PS series have this feature.
Power stacking is using more than one inverter to either increase voltage or current. The Trace line has this feature as an option. So does the Outback, at least in some models. This feature synchronizes and matches phases. I have seen ads by Outback saying that you could connect them for three phase power, as well. I'm sure there are more, but I don't know which ones.
I'm sure that some of this information is dated. It is only mentioned here to minimize confusion.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey
Tom,
And you did that nicely.
Thanks,
John
I have purchased one of these with the intention to buy more, I have not used it yet so I can't give any feedback but what is your opinion of these kind of inverters. I hope I will not be sorry to have asked this question but here is the ebay location of one of these inverters. They also sell those that have 240A output that can be ganged I believe.
http://cgi.ebay.com/STACKABLE-POWER-INVERTER-2500-5000-W-12V-DC-TO-120V-AC_W0QQitemZ390127064133QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad5629445 (http://cgi.ebay.com/STACKABLE-POWER-INVERTER-2500-5000-W-12V-DC-TO-120V-AC_W0QQitemZ390127064133QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad5629445)
Merry Christmas by the way.
Gary
Gary, I've never heard of 'semi-pure sine wave'.
Here is the only thing I found on Simi Sine Wave..?
http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2009/5/8/19954/26784 (http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2009/5/8/19954/26784)
It is not the standby draw or the efficiency that keeps me from changing to pure sine it is the power lost for the operation of the pure sine units even the RS Xantrex,Outback and Magnum uses over 10% for their own use when they get over that hump I'll buy pure sine.
good luck
Well that thing seems to cost what I think they should be worth including the shipping from China. Considering the drop in cost of the components it might even be a little high. The performance for the dollar is great and will be for a long time. I like the idea of stackability and I want to see the "other" inverters automatically come on line as needed....OOOHHHH! That low battery voltage alarm, adjustable, is the signal that your genney needs for auto start.
The reference link that Nick provided sited the failure of a unit after 2 years of use. That inverter had a cooling fan go out after a year. He DIDN"T replace the cooling fan but instead put a house fan on the thing and cracked open the case. It worked that way for another YEAR then crapped out, due to overheating, when it got full of dust and a wasps nest got built in it and he forgot to use the makeshift fan. The piece of Chinese "junk", I say. There would be many with sad tales to tell if these things were even a little unreliable. The cost puts them over the goal line.
So just where the heck is the BATTERY CHARGER? Where is the 150 amp charger? Those cost like the dickens if they are stand alone and multi stage/smart. That pushes me away.
I have such hugely mixed and conflicted about these imports. I should be able to buy American and I would have to do without a lot of things due to cost and others due to a lack of a domestic manufacturer and that is just not right. The American worker is once again the most efficient in the world. Our wages are, in fact, LOWER than Japan or Germany or even France and the cost of our goods isn't all that competitive. Our work force suffers and our wages continue to drop. We did a lot better when 50% of our work force was unionized. Boy, could this ever turn into a rant. :o :(
My Xantrex Freedom is tits up. :( :( :( :( >:( I called the only two shops that can repair them and was told it would probably cost 12 to 13 hundred to repair and possibly MORE. They had a "deal" for me: They would ship me a knew inverter to use while mine was in the shop and all I had to do was give them the cost of the new unit as a deposit. If the "repair" worked out to be more than the cost of the new unit, then they would just consider it a sale. $18,000 bucks plus shipping. Makes you wonder just who these people are accustomed to dealing with. Go XANTREX!!!....you go GIRL. Buy loc..... never mind.
Never a dull moment,
John
And a happy holiday season to all and may His/Her blessings be upon you.
My Magnum 2800 is pure sine wave and I paid about 850 for it, I still havn't figured out what semi-pure sine wave is, one guy that deals with electrnics says it's a quasi way to say modified sine wave and that in electronics semi pure sine wave doesn't exist, only in marketing.
AND JUST WHERE DID YOU GET THAT Magnum????????? Please? :) :) :)
Thanks,
John
John, I got it from trina at RV Surplus in elkhart.
Quote from: Gary LaBombard on December 25, 2009, 03:43:28 AM
I have purchased one of these with the intention to buy more, I have not used it yet so I can't give any feedback but what is your opinion of these kind of inverters. I hope I will not be sorry to have asked this question but here is the ebay location of one of these inverters. They also sell those that have 240A output that can be ganged I believe.
http://cgi.ebay.com/STACKABLE-POWER-INVERTER-2500-5000-W-12V-DC-TO-120V-AC_W0QQitemZ390127064133QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad5629445 (http://cgi.ebay.com/STACKABLE-POWER-INVERTER-2500-5000-W-12V-DC-TO-120V-AC_W0QQitemZ390127064133QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad5629445)
Careful. These units can not be safely (or legally) "stacked" as shown/advertised in this listing.
In order to "stack" inverter outputs, they MUST be hard-wire connections through a listed J-box. You can't use simple 5-15P plugs such as this unit is designed for.
Also, I don't see any listings or regulatory approvals on these.
It's not worth risking your life or the life of your loved ones for the few bucks you will save using something like this.
FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
p.s. Happy Boxing Day.
Now you guys got my butt real nervous. I only have one now and maybe perhaps should wait to order any more. I think I will try this one on a few appliances outside of the bus when the weather clears up just to give a test. I do not have the unit in front of me to see if it was UA approved either. Will check tomorrow.
I know it is real heavy if that means anything. I have to respect Sean's input as well as the rest of you guys, it is a cheap price to find out if it works or not to invest $200 before installing in our bus but I will not invest any more if it should fail during testing.
As far as battery charger, I did not plan to use 120v lights etc. all the time. I planned to be at campsites mostly with hookups and depend upon the battery for power source only occasionally and use the Generator to recharge the batteries on a daily use as the 120 appliances were used with battery power when we had to. Hope this made sense when you read. At this time I am not really sure just how much batter power I will really need for our use.
Thanks for the input and advise, I will let you know if I should find out on my end what also happens.
Gary
Gary,
The words were "I don't see any", not it isn't and none of the European stuff is UL approved unless they intend to sell stateside.
"Careful" isn't the same as DANGER. Be careful no matter what you are doing.
The drawing is only that: a representation of the electrical hook up. Instead of using a "J" box I would suggest running the output of each inverter to a breaker box and use the breakers to switch the inverters into the ganged position. Like in my 73 Winniebago. Better still, I would create different circuits for each inverter and not stack them.
Safety: Never install a inverter in the battery bay. Never snuggle anything that might possibly catch fire right up next to the wood floor....duh. Not that you wood(?). Inverters get connected to circuits carrying hundreds of amps. All of them do. No matter who makes it or what approval it might have, don't mount the thing under your bed and I don't have even the slightest hunch you needed my warning to not do that. By all means test it but don't get driven to paranoia.
I steal luv ya and otters do also. ;D
John
I read ever so often here never mount a inverter in the same location as batteries could someone explain to me why not.
good luck
Quote from: JohnEd on December 26, 2009, 05:48:05 PM
... none of the European stuff is UL approved unless they intend to sell stateside.
To use it in your bus, it must be "listed." UL is only one of many recognized listing agencies; some recognized agencies are, in fact, European (for example, TUV).
I see no listings at all on these.
Quote
"Careful" isn't the same as DANGER.
Well, OK. I meant "danger" -- just to be clear.
Quote
The drawing is only that: a representation of the electrical hook up. Instead of using a "J" box I would suggest running the output of each inverter to a breaker box and use the breakers to switch the inverters into the ganged position.
That's still unsafe (and illegal). You simply can't stack units that have only receptacles for outputs -- they MUST have a hard-wire provision. Period and end of story.
Quote
Better still, I would create different circuits for each inverter and not stack them.
Well, OK, that would be fine. But then what's the point of paying extra for the "stacking" capability, complete with stacking cables? You'd be limited to 15 amps max on either of two "circuits," and 2,500 watts total. Moreover, with this type of unit, you would have to install it at the point of use -- you can't hard-wire to a plug-and-cord connection -- and so to use more than two different appliances on the inverter, you'd constantly be switching plugs.
These type of temporary-use, integral-outlet inverters are not made for the type of permanent installation most of us contemplate in a conversion.
Personally, I distrust any eBay (or other) seller who would even suggest the connection method outlined on that listing -- it's incredibly dangerous.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Quote from: luvrbus on December 26, 2009, 06:04:20 PM
I read ever so often here never mount a inverter in the same location as batteries could someone explain to me why not.
Clifford, that proscription applies to conventional flooded and vented batteries. The main reason is that inverters can produce sparks, and batteries produce hydrogen gas, and the combination of the two can produce an explosion.
Battery gases are also corrosive and will ultimately damage the inverter.
FWIW, my inverter is right next to my batteries, which is just one reason why I have no option but to use valve-relieved batteries; in my case, I went with AGMs.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
Sean,
I am in fundamental agreement with everything you have said.....everything.
they MUST have a hardwire provision. Period and end of story I can't see anything that indicates that they cannot be hard wired and even if they don't have that feature, you could easily do it. I don't like it one thin damn that I am often left with little alternative to buying foreign made "junk". But there it is and I didn't do this.... I have argued with people till I am blue in the face about "what is going to happen and where all this will lead". I was way out front.....twenty years out front to be approximate.
I think Gary is going to be OK.
Clifford.....Regardless of what type bat you buy, it is critically bad design to install the inverter in the battery compartment. In Sean's case I know he had absolutely no alternative and was pushed into that configuration. He is that safety conscious that he must have deep and visible scars from the confrontation that led to the compromise. You can't tell who might put whatever bats in that space somewhere down the line. I have seen bats with the inverter mounted on top of them but the bats were installed in a box that vented under and behind the bay and up and out the side. Up for the hydrogen gas and down for the ox. That a man with your talent and wealth of experience would not know this proves my point. Take this the right way now.
John
John, I have no problem the only reason I ask was reading my Trace manuals and they say mount as close to the batteries as possible no mention of boxes also I have a place in Idaho with solar and the inverter and batteries are in the same small shed with flooded batteries.
I seen to many Marathons and other high end coaches with the inverters in the same area with flooded batteries doesn't make it right but they were there. I was just asking to be sure
good luck
Quote from: JohnEd on December 26, 2009, 06:47:41 PM
they MUST have a hardwire provision. Period and end of story I can't see anything that indicates that they cannot be hard wired and even if they don't have that feature, you could easily do it.
Well, I've looked at the photos (on the previously linked listing as well as other sites) and there is no hard-wire provision visible, nor are any icons or text that would so indicate. Nothing in any of the promotional text would indicate this either.
As far as forcing a hard-wire configuration where none was designed, there are two problems. First is that this will void any listing the device had to begin with, and the second is that it will also void any warranty. The first issue makes it illegal to use, and the second issue means, in practice, most folks would not do it.
Quote
Regardless of what type bat you buy, it is critically bad design to install the inverter in the battery compartment.
FWIW, I don't agree with this statement. One of the key and well-known and understood advantages of VRLA batteries is their ability to be installed immediately adjacent to equipment. I feel it is perfectly acceptable design to choose VRLA batteries explicitly to facilitate these sorts of issues.
As Clifford pointed out, the cable distance from the batteries to the inverter should be as short as possible, and using VRLA batteries can be a real boon here. It is often the case that the added expense of VRLA batteries over flooded can be justified solely on the savings from not having to separately box and vent the batteries and/or reduce cable expense.
In my case, the batteries are actually inside the living space (in the driver compartment downstairs) as well, so they had to be VRLA no matter where the inverter went.
Obviously, it is important that anyone who owns my coach after me understands not to replace the VRLA batteries with flooded ones; this will be in the documentation they receive.
Remember, AGM batteries were originally developed for and deployed in the telecommunications industry (where I have been using them for well over a decade), and they revolutionized the design of remote outside plant installations, completely eliminating external battery enclosures. Batteries are now designed directly into the equipment racks along with everything else.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com)
http://www.varleyredtop.com/history.htm (http://www.varleyredtop.com/history.htm)
Interesting (to some, I guess :D ) link on Varley batteries, which I know from racing cars. They were were among the first, if not the first, absorbed acid batteries developed for use in fighter aircraft in the 1950's. A unique characteristic of absorbed acid batteries is that they can retain their charge for very long periods of time, 80% charge after two years storage comes to mind, and they are very resistant to cold temperatures, which along with their ability to be installed in any orientation made them very useful in aircraft that tended to fly upside-down a lot, and race cars which tended to come to rest upside-down a lot...
They used "fullers earth" as the absorption media up till the 1980's, so I still have a battery or two on the shelf that would have the fuller's earth inside. No idea why I keep the old batteries, just a pack-rat. Now Odyssey batteries are very popular in small race cars.
Again with the trivia... ;D
Brian
I'm following these threads with great interest because I've got so much work yet to do on the anti-KOA before i can turn it over to the bus nut community, I also got another new catalog from northern tool that has some great wind generators in it, one that kicks out 2400 watts, super cool stuff, another thing I'm corn fused about are the different kinds of solar panels, they list 3 different kinds with different specs and prices, I want to keep the anti-KOA as far away from the grid as I can, even if it costs a little more at first, so I'm following these with interest.
FWIW, I use a cheap inverter from Sam's Club to run a flat screen and DVD player. At night, sometimes a couple of cheep fans. So far so good. I have read here where some use a larger modified unit to run most things, and a small pure to run the picky things. A good compromise to a large expensive pure sine wave machine I think.
Barnowl,
Does your inverter have a (hardwire) connections on the inverter? do you have a photo if not how you choose to hook it up for use? I thought of using a smaller full sine wave also for the fussy appliances, oh heck this can drive you nuts. It is just difficult to set up and be as efficient as Sean is even though you want to be.
Gary
Clifford,
Every inverter I have handled, 4 or 5 has had the installation recommendation to "mount as close to the bat as possible". As possible without being in the same space.....wet cells. You can engineer around almost anything and God knows I have cut some corners but having been present when a couple bats have exploded, I follow the rules there carefully.
Never ever put a bat inside the car. The consequences of that explosion boggle my mind. That being said, my Beetle had the bat, wet cell, mounted under the rear seat. My rear seat was NOT hermetically sealed....trust me. Krauts are known for their tech savvy so I gotta ponder. The violence of that explosion is endelled in my mind and influences my decision process. Can't really argue with Sean's logic, however.
respectfully,
John
Ever check the battery on a Saturn or some of the high end German made cars John they are inside the car with flooded cell batteries.
good luck
Clifford,
That was what I said in the second paragraph of my last post. I am sitting here with this experience of a VIOLENT explosion in my memory, having heard that "you can't do that" for many many years, and all of a sudden I remember that all of my VW's had the battery "inside" the car. Makes me wonder what to do with my convictions and deep reservations. I can't say that I like this particular feeling but it has always meant that I am missing some rather salient point.
For all this advice of "you have to vent the batteries" I can't recall ever hearing about a vehicle exploding from it. And in my personal experience, if an 8D went "OFF", well, we would all have heard about it. I give up. :P
Be well and happy Sir Clifford,
John
John, I assure you, the sky is not falling, the other shoe may be dangling but it's actually secured quite nicely by a common thread lol, (hey, I liked that one lol). Many of the things we do may not be recommended or may actually be condemned by the federal government or could in fact result in UN sanctions being applied against us but hey, what do we care, we're bus nuts, we do things our way and damn the torpedo's, right? I realize that some of our projects may not be quite as kosher as they could be but I'm really having a hard time picturing the results being equal to the end of civilization as we know it. I've even carried a fuel can in my bays from time to time and my LP tanks are in the same bays as my batteries and even my inverter, do I know it's wrong? probably but my bays are all wide open, no partitions so I guess I'll risk it, do I recommend it to others? I tell others to make up their own minds. I do take the time to listen to the others that know far more than I do, then I do it my own way anyway, yes, I admit it, I'm an individual with limited computing power and very few brain cells but I'm me and nobody else, sorry about that but thats who or what I am.
Sorry John if I hurt your feeling but I have a problem understanding what you talking about sometimes make it a one liner for me and I can understand it LOL but these long and detailed posts I read about 1/2 of the post and that is a mistake on my part but I am to damn old to change .
Fwiw John I been around the heavy stuff trucks, construction equip and buses all my life only saw one battery explode and that was my AGM Lifeline battery.
good luck my friend
QuoteBarnowl,
Does your inverter have a (hardwire) connections on the inverter? do you have a photo if not how you choose to hook it up for use? I thought of using a smaller full sine wave also for the fussy appliances, oh heck this can drive you nuts. It is just difficult to set up and be as efficient as Sean is even though you want to be.
Gary
Gary,
No hardwire, I Put a 12v power outlet in a overhead compartment where I was going to hide the inverter. My children piled so much stuff on it that it would overheat and shut down so I moved it (while on my trip) to behind the TV. It is a very inexpensive 400w inverter I purchased at Sam's Club many years ago before I bought my bus. It will run a VISO 19" flat screen and a DVD player just fine and maybe charge a cell phone or ipod at the same time, but it likes lots of cool air. It also runs a macbook laptop computer without any problems. I delayed posting in hopes of getting to the bus for a photo but never made it. Nothing to see really. I don't know if it is a modified sine or square wave, but at $30, I know it's not a true sine wave LOL! I see many fretting over what to do about these things but it is a non-issue for me, because I don't have the coin for the good stuff, and have found that I get by just fine with the "junk". When I need to run the microwave I just turn on the generator. I don't FT so I cannot justify the cost of a big inverter system. I can buy lots of gen fuel for that cost, and my genny needs a good run once in a while anyways.
I need to add that I use a power strip plugged into the inverter because the inverter only has two receptacle holes. It save me the hassle of plugging/unplugging everything.
Clifford,
Now that hurts
Sorry John if I hurt your feeling
make it a one liner for me and I can understand it
Brevity isn't my long suit but if com is at stake I will even translate it to Spanoish. Sorta.
I am to damn old to change .
Don't do that, Cliffy....Don't change.
that was my AGM Lifeline battery.
AND THAT MAKES MY POINT The AGM aren't supposed to vent.
good luck my friend
Count on that....even if you have a short attention span...errrr... I mean ahhhh aw crap! ;D ;D ;D :-*
I can't figure it out. That has always been such an inflexible rule "double vent and separate". Maybe it is because that "once" can kill or blind you. I am slightly exasperated.
Don't install a battery under the head of your bed.
John.....most probably.
John, all batteries present a risk if they store sufficient power. The different types just present different kinds and levels of risk. I wouldn't recommend putting any spark source in a battery compartment because if one does vent, the gases are explosive and corrosive. I think any of them would be dangerous if the charging system ran away.
Making sure the battery compartment is vented is probably the most common way of avoiding damage in most equipment. I also think that most of the electronics in these inverters is sealed, but they often use relays in their transfer systems.
On our boat, each of the alternators is equipped with an over voltage cutout that will prevent cooking of the batteries if the charging system runs away. Sometimes, these things just happen.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey
Tom,
Always serious value in your posts to me. Thanks for the info.
Admittedly my 453 Marine is not modern state of the art.....its guts are not sealed in any way and the circuit boards are not conformal coated. I can imagine anyones little heart going pitty pat if their inverter went on the fritz and they removed the case to find the thing is "growing" inside.
In thinking about this, batteries exploding, I seem to recall in the dim past comments about the internals of a bat coming loose and sparking. That was one scenario for them exploding. Another was lifting the positive post connection "first" though that never made sense to me I do it their way. Lastly it was a spark in the immediate environment/ proximity of the bat while charging or discharging. So from that it would seem that those VIOLENT and destructive explosions were the result of that small space on top of the cells filling with H and O and getting a spark. If that is true, and I am not certain, then a baggage compartment filled with that mix would blow the bus in half, I can easily imagine.
My bat enclosure in the elder Winnie has a rear wall that is open to the underside of the coach so this Little Feller ain't a'skert. I think this subject is very serious though and new Knuts need an emphatic warning. And that's coming from the guy that has the indelible rep for cutting corners.
Thank you very much, Tom.