Hello everyone! It's been a while. I've been busy searching for and looking at buses! And I think I the search may be over. I have made an offer on a PD-4905 Buffalo and should know something soon, maybe tomorrow. Mechanically, it is excellent and it has a great body, but it is stripped out. After all the advice here and from some friends who know buses, I have come to agree that most old outdated old conversions aren't worth the money the owners think they are worth. It's model number is 4905-256. I will let you know how it goes...
Marc
You can see here where some jerk stole the bumper. Pretty dirty as you can see, but nothing a little pressure wash won't fix!
Marc -
Here's a copy of my answer posted on the GMC Yahell busnut's bbs:
Well, it could be one of two, depending on the VIN.
First: PD4905-256 was delivered new in June of 1971 as fleet number 1104 to LER Transportation (H.A.M.L. Corp), based out of New Brunswick, NJ.
Second, with a slightly different VIN: P8M4905A-256 was delivered new in February of 1973 as fleet number 100 to Central Post Fund, based at Ft. Bragg, NC.
So, double-check the VIN with the seller to confirm which one it is.
Also, check the first one carefully for rust, especially around the upper deck vista windows, the two "D" windows, and around the rear window, since it was a coach operated primarily in the Rust Belt.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
PS: In addition to the dash plaque, the VIN is also stamped on the "frame rail" (actually the wall of the spare tire compartment) inside the exterior compartment located underneath the driver.
Thanks RJ,
I replied there as well... It is the second one. It hasn't gone far, still in North Carolina. Beautiful rust-free body! And it is a 1973, not a 1971. Actually I am a 1971 model, not the bus! LOL. Thanks for checking!
Marc
Lotsa potential there, hope it works out for ya, Did you find a mechanic to check it out?
Good job, Marc. We will look forward to hearing more, if you get it.
God bless,
John
Quote from: NewbeeMC9 on December 17, 2009, 03:28:06 AM
Lotsa potential there, hope it works out for ya, Did you find a mechanic to check it out?
One of our church members is a bus mechanic, and the guy who is selling this bus is also a diesel mechanic who also works on buses for local churches.
Quote from: thejumpsuitman on December 17, 2009, 04:25:08 AM
Quote from: NewbeeMC9 on December 17, 2009, 03:28:06 AM
Lotsa potential there, hope it works out for ya, Did you find a mechanic to check it out?
One of our church members is a bus mechanic, and the guy who is selling this bus is also a diesel mechanic who also works on buses for local churches.
Wow! jumpsuitman a double holy deal :) :)
Sorry couldn't resist glad you found the right one.
Quote from: Paso One on December 17, 2009, 05:54:27 AM
Quote from: thejumpsuitman on December 17, 2009, 04:25:08 AM
Quote from: NewbeeMC9 on December 17, 2009, 03:28:06 AM
Lotsa potential there, hope it works out for ya, Did you find a mechanic to check it out?
One of our church members is a bus mechanic, and the guy who is selling this bus is also a diesel mechanic who also works on buses for local churches.
Wow! jumpsuitman a double holy deal :) :)
I like it. In my experience only holy deals work out well.
;D
Marc
Sorry couldn't resist glad you found the right one.
Removed
Quote from: Now Just Dallas on December 17, 2009, 07:37:20 AM
Ummm, I'm not trying to be a naysayer here but,
Many times it has been found that the maintenance budget for the bus has been left up to a higher power when owned by a church.
Then there's the "and the guy who is selling this bus is also a diesel mechanic who also works on buses for local churches." Isn't that like having the fox inspect the hen house?
We just want you to be careful and aren't saying not to go for it. I wouldn't be afraid to take many buses that others turn down, but that's because I feel comfortable with my abilities to handle any problems that come up. (Just look at the junker that I drive now!)
This is going to be a huge learning experience for you and we all want you to have the best experience possible!
If you feel comfortable, and like the deal, go for it, nothing can happen to that bus that either hasn't already happened or can't be fixed with a small piece of plastic.
Quote from: thejumpsuitman on December 17, 2009, 04:25:08 AM
Quote from: NewbeeMC9 on December 17, 2009, 03:28:06 AM
Lotsa potential there, hope it works out for ya, Did you find a mechanic to check it out?
One of our church members is a bus mechanic, and the guy who is selling this bus is also a diesel mechanic who also works on buses for local churches.
I agree with the fox and the hen analogy. I don't even trust people as far as I can throw them. We'll see what happens. I expect to learn lots. ;)
Quote from: Now Just Dallas on December 17, 2009, 07:37:20 AM
Ummm, I'm not trying to be a naysayer here but,
Many times it has been found that the maintenance budget for the bus has been left up to a higher power when owned by a church.
If you feel comfortable, and like the deal, go for it, nothing can happen to that bus that either hasn't already
I avoided opening this can of worms earlier this morning but I'm glad to pile on once it has been opened. ;D
Over 30 years in business my experience was that the customers who most loudly protested their religiousity were also the ones who were quickest to take advantage of me on a deal. So my advice is to trust your inspection ahead of your Lord.
Quote from: bobofthenorth on December 17, 2009, 08:34:14 AM
Quote from: Now Just Dallas on December 17, 2009, 07:37:20 AM
Ummm, I'm not trying to be a naysayer here but,
Many times it has been found that the maintenance budget for the bus has been left up to a higher power when owned by a church.
If you feel comfortable, and like the deal, go for it, nothing can happen to that bus that either hasn't already
I avoided opening this can of worms earlier this morning but I'm glad to pile on once it has been opened. ;D
Over 30 years in business my experience was that the customers who most loudly protested their religiousity were also the ones who were quickest to take advantage of me on a deal. So my advice is to trust your inspection ahead of your Lord.
You didn't read the post correctly. The seller is the mechanic and MY FRIEND WHO IS A BUS MECHANIC goes to our church. Why open up a religous can of worms? Unwise.
Marc -
Just because the bus is in NC, doesn't mean that it didn't migrate there from the Rust Belt.
Open up that exterior compartment under the driver and confirm which VIN it is, that way you'll know for sure.
Here's a pic of what you're looking for and where you'll find it - it's actually of my own coach, but you get the idea:
Quote from: RJ on December 17, 2009, 09:05:36 AM
Marc -
Just because the bus is in NC, doesn't mean that it didn't migrate there from the Rust Belt.
Open up that exterior compartment under the driver and confirm which VIN it is, that way you'll know for sure.
Here's a pic of what you're looking for and where you'll find it - it's actually of my own coach, but you get the idea:
Thanks RJ, I'll double check, but the title is 1973, not 1971, and it is very clean, no rust. If it went to Ft. Bragg from new, it would make sense that this is the 1973 bus.
Marc
Long shot but the bus may have been at Ft. Bragg for 2 years before it was used on the road or sold. Up to that point it didn't need to be titled. As for all the things to be careful of & I understand & appreciate everyone's concern, why not just buy the thing at a price taking all that into account anyway. Works for me. Merry Xmas to you & congrats!
Quote from: john9861 on December 17, 2009, 09:58:13 AM
Long shot but the bus may have been at Ft. Bragg for 2 years before it was used on the road or sold. Up to that point it didn't need to be titled. As for all the things to be careful of & I understand & appreciate everyone's concern, why not just buy the thing at a price taking all that into account anyway. Works for me. Merry Xmas to you & congrats!
I think like you do... You can't guard against everything. You just make a reasonably well-informed decision and go forward.
Removed
Shoot man, that should be no problem for you, just a little smoke damage! ;D
Removed
What remains of that bus is beautiful. The stainless is in really good shape and it would have made us a really nice conversion. Someone is going to get a really good deal on that one. It is also sitting at a place where the interior could be converted for you by a man that does a super good job on the interiors.
Go ahead, jump in we need another "nut" in NC. Then JR and I won't be alone as true nuts.
Could include tom and gene in this class also and a few more.
ned
Quote from: uncle ned on December 17, 2009, 11:56:50 AM
Go ahead, jump in we need another "nut" in NC. Then JR and I won't be alone as true nuts.
Could include tom and gene in this class also and a few more.
ned
I've already been told I'm nuts, so I may as well have the bus too! ;D
To me it's like anything else in life, if you like it and feel comfortable, go for it, lol, none of the buses are perfect or they would all be iggles lol.
I don't know about military buses in general, but I have seen some Air Force Eagles that looked like brand new after ten or twelve years of service. Couldn't ask for more meticulous maintenance. I guess it's easy when you can treat the motor pool like an airplane.
Quote from: Len Silva on December 17, 2009, 12:32:24 PM
I don't know about military buses in general, but I have seen some Air Force Eagles that looked like brand new after ten or twelve years of service. Couldn't ask for more meticulous maintenance. I guess it's easy when you can treat the motor pool like an airplane.
Len, the same thought occurred to me. At least during it's "first life", I would tend to believe it was very well maintained at the base.
Jump, did you find a place to get bumpers?
Alex
That logic about the Army being thorough in it" maint program applies to more outfits that the US Army. As was mentioned, it also applies to the Air Force or the FED or a local or state Gummint or a "SCHOOL DISTRICT". And this might surprise you... anything in Canada that has passed it's safety inspection cause those socialists up there have gun shy Polits that actually "fear" the voters a little and tend to cross the "T's" and dot the "I's". If your loved ones die in a flaming wreck in a vehicle that was maintained by any public agency then a Gov or Senator or Rep will soon be getting involved and he/she won't be making excuses for the agency and if there is any dereliction of duty, then, heads do roll. If not Gummint owned then it will be resolved by your favorite Personal Injury Attorney and he will work his "little" heart out to make sure a proper example is set to discourage opportunistic and predatory behavior by that party in the future. The system works.
Now there is an owner group that is notorious for "deferred maint" and it is the small time operators like Churches and Bands and you understand. Single owners can be as bad as any or they can be as good as the Army. This IS NOT a religious or a political post but rather advice on what seller you should inspect more carefully in your own best interest. You can trace the registered owners and in many states the mileage is listed at each sale. If he last owner was a private and few miles since Ft Bragg was driving....well then all is probably well. Small group that probably does not have a experienced driver and will defer maint and inspections I would look it over carefully. The engine can be lugged and ruin the engine in a few hundred miles and the drums and shoes can be destroyed on a single long downhill grade. And other stuff of which I have no idea. Any and all words of caution are to benefit you in this journey. And all others that might have need for the info, now or in the future doing subject searches.
You have indicated that you are getting a righteous deal and that infers, to me at least, that you can't get hurt in this. Good for you Jumpsuit...really. And welcome to the board. You seem exactly the kind of Knut that will benefit the board and yourself. And BOTN is not any sort of anti religious hack or anti anything as far as I have seen in 3 years. Except being anti TAX and anti COLD, for sure. Great guy that is well respected and liked over a significant stretch of this country.( as you will be, I am sure) Maybe some slips of the tongues and miss interpretations here but no bad intentsions by either.
Welcome and Good Luck with the Adventure, I'll bet there are posts be drafted as we speak about where you can get those bumpers.
John
Quote from: 4905 doc on December 17, 2009, 02:23:39 PM
Jump, did you find a place to get bumpers?
Alex
Hi Alex,
I got your PM. Thanks. I have a couple places people have sent me to now. I'll compare $ once the deal is done, but first place guessed around $200 each, front and back. Does that sound about right?
Quote from: JohnEd on December 17, 2009, 02:42:05 PM
That logic about the Army being thorough in it" maint program applies to more outfits that the US Army. As was mentioned, it also applies to the Air Force or the FED or a local or state Gummint or a "SCHOOL DISTRICT". And this might surprise you... anything in Canada that has passed it's safety inspection cause those socialists up there have gun shy Polits that actually "fear" the voters a little and tend to cross the "T's" and dot the "I's". If your loved ones die in a flaming wreck in a vehicle that was maintained by any public agency then a Gov or Senator or Rep will soon be getting involved and he/she won't be making excuses for the agency and if there is any dereliction of duty, then, heads do roll. If not Gummint owned then it will be resolved by your favorite Personal Injury Attorney and he will work his "little" heart out to make sure a proper example is set to discourage opportunistic and predatory behavior by that party in the future. The system works.
Now there is an owner group that is notorious for "deferred maint" and it is the small time operators like Churches and Bands and you understand. Single owners can be as bad as any or they can be as good as the Army. This IS NOT a religious or a political post but rather advice on what seller you should inspect more carefully in your own best interest. You can trace the registered owners and in many states the mileage is listed at each sale. If he last owner was a private and few miles since Ft Bragg was driving....well then all is probably well. Small group that probably does not have a experienced driver and will defer maint and inspections I would look it over carefully. The engine can be lugged and ruin the engine in a few hundred miles and the drums and shoes can be destroyed on a single long downhill grade. And other stuff of which I have no idea. Any and all words of caution are to benefit you in this journey. And all others that might have need for the info, now or in the future doing subject searches.
You have indicated that you are getting a righteous deal and that infers, to me at least, that you can't get hurt in this. Good for you Jumpsuit...really. And welcome to the board. You seem exactly the kind of Knut that will benefit the board and yourself. And BOTN is not any sort of anti religious hack or anti anything as far as I have seen in 3 years. Except being anti TAX and anti COLD, for sure. Great guy that is well respected and liked over a significant stretch of this country.( as you will be, I am sure) Maybe some slips of the tongues and miss interpretations here but no bad intentsions by either.
Welcome and Good Luck with the Adventure, I'll bet there are posts be drafted as we speak about where you can get those bumpers.
John
Thanks John,
I believe the last actual legitimate owner/operator was the church, fairly large one about an hour north of here. As for the Ft. Bragg ownership, well... we're talking 36 years ago, right? ;D It's fun to search out history, but mechanically speaking, I figure the only history that really matters is recent history, so it is what it is. It is the right kind of deal for me if it works out, so I am more or less free of the worry of paying too much for a solid, non-smoking, running/driving 4905 that holds air with good glass, new brakes,new power steering pump, good tires and already gutted for me. ;)
I probably come across a little cavalier in general, which might irk some people, but I have literally owned over 100 classic cars in my young life and have owned a used car dealership with mechanics on payroll, so I just don't get too worked up over the "what if's". ;D
Where do you get this history for an MCI? ???
Front and rear Bumper for a P8M4905A
The front and rear bumper for a 4905A you can use a 4107-4108 or a PD4903 or a H8H649.
Front bumper from a 4104,4106 and the PD4501 Scenicruiser will NOT work.I have been there and tried to do that!
The side bumper extensions you can use any thing from 4104 through H8H649.
The side bumper extensions are different between left and right the left extension has a cut out in the top rear corner
for the tool compartment door latch handle.
The brackets and rubber isolator's that let you mount the bumper extensions might be sort of hard to locate but call around some one might have some NOS one's in there stock.
Good luck with your new GMC Buffalo.
jlv
Quote from: roadrunnertex on December 17, 2009, 03:48:16 PM
The side bumper extensions are different between left and right: the left extension has a cut out in the top rear corner for the tool compartment door latch handle.
Marc -JLV's been working on too many airplanes, got his top & bottom mixed up! ;D (JK, JLV, all in good fun!!)
The left side bumper extension has the cut-out for the tool compartment door latch handle on the
bottom rear corner (lower right as you're standing looking at the bus). I was out at my coach (4106) earlier today, and had to open the compartment to take that pic for you of the VIN location.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
RJ Thanks for the correction. ;D
Seems like as I get older it's easy to get confused more often. ???
jlv :D
If you listen to to everyone here you will never get a bus. Just do a kamakasie screame and buy it. There will be things that you did not expect that are good and bad. You will never go swimming if you do not get in the water. My .02 worth
I believe the last actual legitimate owner/operator was the church, fairly large one about an hour north of here. As for the Ft. Bragg ownership, well... we're talking 36 years ago, right?
No i didn't get that. I thought the Ft Bragg was more recent in terms of mileage if not years. seemed odd that they would be keeping a bus that vintage but then I thought that this is the Army we are talking about. There were also references about how well Iggles were maintained by the USAF.
You seem to have verified much of the condition that I didn't think you had. Air suspension, rust, engine condition, etc. Good for you...really. If it isn't smoking even at start-up then it seems it is in excellent condition. Wrong oil or too long an interval between changes OR lugging the thing would all ruin it so they must have had their act together. You have heard from group members that have hundreds of years of specific experience with 2 strokes and buses and GM buses....excluding me. Don't interpret their words of caution as talking down or denigrating your own experience, which seems to be considerable, in any way. It is all intended as constructive, all of it.
I would verify the type of oil that is in it and I for sure would have the coolant analyzed along with the oil to set a base line for detecting problems.
I have met Knuts with 4905 automatics that have a tach on the dash and NEVER let the 740 decide when to shift. They do it manually in accord with the load and rpm.
Glad to hear that all is going well with you.
John
Quote from: JohnEd on December 18, 2009, 09:22:43 AM
I have met Knuts with 4905 automatics that have a tach on the dash and NEVER let the 740 decide when to shift. They do it manually in accord with the load and rpm.
John -740s are T-drive slushboxes, a 4905 would have a V-drive 730.
Just helping you with your GMC education! ;D
But you're right about shifting the Allison manually, regardless of which model!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
RJ,
I'll stand corrected on the trans. They were running the V730 and they shifted it manually. Nice catch there RJ... ::) ;D ;D ;D :-*
How about you start the Jumper off with a Jake brake intro and a descript of the trans mod that keeps the torque converter locked up in 1st for steep and slow decent.
John
John -
Can't help with that one, mine's a stick!
But TomC has posted how it's done, maybe he'll chime in here and follow-up.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Tom C's shifting method is in this thread:
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=1458.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=1458.0)
Bob
TJSM,
The info that Tom provides seems valuable to me. But it is not what I was referring to. Note the lack of mention of the jake and going DOWNHILL. Still, all of what they say is gold if I were siting down in the pilots chair of a 4905.
Now, what I was referring to is a trans mod that allows you to force the Allison to stay in torque converter lockup. If you are descending a long and tightly winding grade the Jake is usually worthless. When the trans shifts into TC mode there is no real braking force as the TC spins. The mod is a tube/pipe connection between two ports on the trans with a elect cont hyd valve in the line. Actuate the valve and the TC stays locked up. Remember to switch off before coming to a stop. I thought that was one superb cost to benefit ratio upgrade. The savings in brake lining only once would pay for it 10 or 20 times over depending on how badly the shop was raping you.
Good luck,
John
Did you get the bus?
There is something about the engine falling out if you have issues where it mounts. Check that and I'm sure more can tell you what the issue is. :)
Quote from: RJ on December 18, 2009, 10:06:44 PM
John -
Can't help with that one, mine's a stick!
But TomC has posted how it's done, maybe he'll chime in here and follow-up.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
This Buffalo is a 4-spd. Which I am happy about, actually. I prefer that to a slushbox. RJ, any advice on handling that wet clutch would be appreciated.
NewbeeMC9,
I haven't got it yet, but I think we are close on the negotiations.
Marc
Quote from: thejumpsuitman on December 19, 2009, 06:08:06 AM
This Buffalo is a 4-spd. Which I am happy about, actually. I prefer that to a slushbox. RJ, any advice on handling that wet clutch would be appreciated.
Marc -Reading this will help:
http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/12262/16204.html?1167073154 (http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/12262/16204.html?1167073154)
After reading, drop me a pm and I'll fill you in on other details. Have spent a LOT of wheel time in wet clutch 4905s, so am very familiar with their quirks.
Did you confirm the VIN yet?
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)