My bus project is so far behind schedule that I'm finding no motivation to go out and work on it. I get depressed seeing how far behind I am.
The project has ballooned way beyond the original scope of a simple conversion. My biggest mistake was deciding to panel over the sides. I expected it to take maybe two weekends and now it looks like a month might be more like it. It takes two people and I can rarely line up a second person to help. I do have a college student lined up to help on Saturday plus my brother.
I should have been outside in the bus almost an hour ago, but like I said, no motivation. Every time I go out, I can't decide what to work on as so many things need to get done.
Also, I don't have a truck, van, or SUV to haul materials so that makes things hard. I suppose I'll have to pay $20 to a rent a truck at HD or Menards, but that just eats into my budget. I can't drive the bus over there until the sides are done.
Brian Elfert
Brian - I have been there many times in my life on big projects. I called this state "overwhelmed and underfunded". The only way to succeed is to take the project one step at a time. VERY easy to say. I thrashed around for a couple of weeks before I could drag myself out to work on the bus. I cleverly waited until the weekend temps were in the 95 range to start pulling the windows and skinning my bus. Well, last weekend I got one side done.
You are right, it takes a lot of time to skin the windows. For me, I did a lot of research, called Fred Hobe and talked with him, and read everything I could here. Even after that, on the first side of the bus, I would say the duty cycle was 60% head scratching and parts chasing, and 40% doing. I expect the other side to go faster in actual work hours (who knows in calendar hours) because I have solved some little delimmas and have the experience of the one side under my belt.
So to summarize, compatmentalize the project and focus hard on just that part. Looking at the big picture all the time can overwhelm you. Then spend the rest of the time kicking yourself to go out there and work on it. That's what I have to do.
Craig - MC7 Oregon
Brian, When I'm stuck, I go out and clean up the project for a set time, like 10 minutes and then come back in. Sometimes it is tough, like everyone here can attest. August coming is 4 years I've been working on my bus. Its still as fun as the day I got it.....but it hasnt been that way everyday. Some parts of the project move quickly and other drag terribly, with awful hard work and little progress.
What helped my the first year is during that summer, I became discouraged. It was stifiling hot in the bus and I wasnt close to putting on the roof airs. I bought a $100 air conditioner at home depot, removed a window and using a peice f Celotex, made me a new window with an air conditioner hole in it. I had to make up a bracket to hold it up, but it cooled the bus fine. Then, I put in my boom box with some tunes, swept out the bus and put in a decent folding captains chair.
Then I started using the bus. It was just sitting in the yard, but it was cool and clean, And I could sit there with my feet on a box and it was fine. Now, my bus is finished inside, I have a better chair and better tunes, but it no cooolllerr than it was then. When we busnuts look at the bus, we all see it as finished, anyway. Theres just a few things in between.
If you have a trailer hitch on a vehicle, spend a couple hunderd bucks and buy yourself a cheap trailer to haul material on. It works as well as a truck.
I hope this helps, because I BTDT........Chuck
Look at one task at a time not the entire conversion. Trying to do many task at the same time can easily become overwhelming. Concentrate on the paneling until it is done then go to the next step.
As soon as possible use your bus, a Coleman stove, an ice chest and a sleeping bag on an air mattress and go camping. We set a goal to go somewhere at least one weekend a month when we purchased our bus. with the exceptions of June, July, and August, when it is just too hot in Florida, we have met our goal and we will have owned our bus 7 years come October. We we got back from a trip, I was always anxious to add something else before we went out again. Sometimes something major like building a shower from scratch or something simple like building a temporary kitchen counter.
We have a friend that literally built his conversion at Home Depot. He got to know the manager, who let him park behind the store and even let him plug in an extension cord. He would go insdie, buy material and hardware, install it and go back in for more. Hope this helps, Jack
Brian,
I think this un=godly heat that is nation wide is getting to lots of us on these bus conversion projects and oh yea, you can get overwhelmed for sure at times. If anyone does it is me at times so I just take a few days off and then before you know it I get anxious to get something done again.
Thinking of what is way ahead of you will hold you back, I suggest like I have to do myself nearly every day, to set a goal of what to accomplish and stick with it either for the day or the week. I no longer think too far ahead and keep a pictorial record of your accomplishments like I do on my web site and share with others for encouragement from them and also perhaps assist others or newbies with your ideas of your accomplishment that they might want to do with their rigs.
The cost of the fuel dwells on my mind all the time, when I finally can get my rig going, just how far will I be able to afford to go, then I say well, I been pouring money into the Rustless Money Pit all this time, now I have all that to use for fuel, maybe still cannot go very far but working on my bus or my S&S now also keeps my mind active for things that give me pleasure looking at that belong to me.
Don't set your goals so far ahead in your conversion that you cannot keep on track, as far as needing help, man I know all about that one. But now I have been working on my bus 4 years now and maybe had help, 3 hours all together in that total time. I think of ways of supporting metal till I weld it etc. and have purchased engine hoist to assist in lifting heavy stuff, (wheel assemblies, Torsilastic tubes etc) and that is what I contend with all day long when I do work on my bus. I would not know how to ack with help now, I work slow, think all the time of safety in preventing myself from getting hurt, photograph everything from before starting to finishing and share all I can with newbies to keep them motivated no matter how bad their bus may be. I doubt that many are as bad as mine "Was" when I first started, but here I am now trying to tell you not to give up, go to a bus rally ASAP, look at what you can do and everyone else has done. Think how nice it will be to be on the road and meeting new people with the same interest as you every day for the rest of your life.
Don't give up, take a break, go to bus rally's if possible, and wait for cooler weather to dive back in. Choose "ONE" project to work on, complete it to the end and then go on to #2 etc. Never mind adding them up in your mind, this is my 4th full year on my bus and it has not been started in over 3 years. What kind of bus nut am I?? Really nuts but so what.
I am sure you will get more encouragement from more experienced converters tonight on the bb'd, and we all wish you well on our project, just keep that goal in the right place like you did the first day you bought your bus.
Gary
Stop working for a few hours, rent the movie Rocky, consume a few adult beverages of your choice and sing "EYE of the Tiger" at the top of your lungs several times. Turn the movie off and walk straight out to the bus and kick a tire. Let the bus know who is in charge and get ready for tomorrow.
Dude, we have all suffered the bus conversion blues. As they say "this too shall pass!!!" :o
Good luck!
Grant
Quote from: ChuckMC8 on July 25, 2006, 04:51:26 PM
What helped my the first year is during that summer, I became discouraged. It was stifiling hot in the bus and I wasnt close to putting on the roof airs. I bought a $100 air conditioner at home depot, removed a window and using a peice f Celotex, made me a new window with an air conditioner hole in it. I had to make up a bracket to hold it up, but it cooled the bus fine.
I have the same problem tonight. It is stifling hot in the bus, but reasonably cool outside. I came back inside to cool off and find a fan. Maybe I will go the window A/C route, but a big blue tarp over empty windows doesn't provide much insulation.
Quote If you have a trailer hitch on a vehicle, spend a couple hunderd bucks and buy yourself a cheap trailer to haul material on. It works as well as a truck.
I have a real nice trailer, but nothing to pull it with.
Brian Elfert
One huge issue is the need to head off on a 7 day adventure on September 26th or 27th. The three things that MUST be done are toilet, A/C, and generator. We can cook on a Coleman stove outside if need be. Bus seats can be reinstalled for the trip.
I have 6 to 8 guys planning on this trip. I have no way myself to get there without the bus. I don't really want to camp in the desert in a tent, nor drive a VW Golf 4,000 miles round trip. There are at least three others on the trip that I trust to drive the bus. They all did fine with a truck and travel trailer that were over 50 feet long.
Brian Elfert
Dude...You just bought your bus. You should be 2 years away for the the "bus is STILL not done" depression stage. :) I bought mine 4 years ago thinking it was a one year project, which it might have been had life not got in the way and I had a shop to put it in. A lot of work can not be done in the rain, and when it rains 75% of the time, things progress slowly. All I can say is just plug away and it will get done. I'm notorious for starting projects, losing interest and selling. My friends and family are amazed that I've stuck with this bus project right to the end.
I find that if you set a goal to get something done everyday, the project won't go stale. Some days my goal is to just order parts. Today's goal was to run my 12V alternator cable and cut in my genset vents. I got the cable run, but ran out of cutting blades so the vent didn't get done. I also find that if you think about the projst as a whole it's easy to get overwhelmed. You have to break the project into smaller sub-projects. Finish a sub-project, celebrate and move to the next. Don't think about everything that needs to be done, just think about the sub-project at hand.
Just keep in mind that it's a huge project that takes some talent to get done. Be proud of your work and when you finish a job, step back and say "Ya baby!". Before you know it you'll be looking at a finished bus hardly believing that you own such a beautiful rig. I'll tell ya, after doing one of these start to finish, my hats off to all of you guys.
Ross
Quote from: belfert on July 25, 2006, 05:27:01 PM
One huge issue is the need to head off on a 7 day adventure on September 26th or 27th. The three things that MUST be done are toilet, A/C, and generator. We can cook on a Coleman stove outside if need be. Bus seats can be reinstalled for the trip.
I have 6 to 8 guys planning on this trip. I have no way myself to get there without the bus. I don't really want to camp in the desert in a tent, nor drive a VW Golf 4,000 miles round trip. There are at least three others on the trip that I trust to drive the bus. They all did fine with a truck and travel trailer that were over 50 feet long.
Brian Elfert
Brian,
Believe me, I know what "Converters Block" can do to ya.
You need a toilet, A/C and Genny?
Consider doing it this way:
Go down to Walmart and buy a Thetford 155 portable toilet. I think they are about $60. put it in a corner and build a plywood wall in front of it, (you wouldn't want THAT coming at you from 65mph). On the other sides, hang a shower curtain for privacy. I think the 155 holds about 5 gallons of stuff, so it would have to be emptied everyday.
Get your Genny hooked up next. Even if you have to go down to Menards and buy one of the contractors models, toss it in a bay and pull it out when you need it.
Run some wire for a few lights and the A/C and then cut the hole for your roof A/C. Mount the A/C and POOF! you have a steel tent, ready for the roughest service that 8 guys can give it.
For now, like everyone else says, pick one job and get it finished then move on to the next one and the next and so on. I have a list of things to do on our bus that hasn't gotten any shorter in the last 3 years. There is always something else to do.
Do I get discouraged? constantly. I'm discouraged because my knees hurt bad enough I could cry when I have to bend them, I'm discouraged because some of the meds the doctors have me on won't let me get out in the sun. I'm discouraged because the money I thought I was going to have to fix some of these things hasn't come forth.
Am I gonna quit? Not on your Bloody Life! I'll plug along doing something, even if it's one of those days when al I can do is sit here at the computer and watch the progress all you other guys are making.
Good Luck and don't give up, it will get better!
Dallas
Alot of good advice already given.
All I have to add is do the little pain in the butt projects during the week after work.
It is amazing how you can eat up 2 or 3 hours on a minor job.
The nice thing about this is if you need some additional material you can pick it up on the way home the next day.
And if you have to stop work for more parts, your probaly ready to give it a rest anyway.
Save the weekend for the big jobs and get everything you need during the week. I hate wasting weekend time hunting parts.
At my first Bussin 2005 rally a guy asked me how long I thought it would take to complete my bus(I had owned it for 34 days)
I said "about a year" he smiled(little did i know it was the smile of experience)
Set small goals and do some of the easier fun stuff.
And last as soon as its movable again use it. We took ours on a 1600 mile trip to family with a portapotty, mattress and couch.
And i had a perfect Class C at home, I need help! :o
You will get there, Hang in there Brian.
Cliff
You are in the early stages of your conversion, you still do not have a lot of time or money in it. Is it really worth it? How much time and money do you want to put in this thing? Cut your losses and run, sell off what you can and write the rest off as a learning experience.
Or quit your whinning get off your butt and do something, even if it is wrong!
HTH Jim
When you are at your wits end, and really need motivation to continue on, just find the biggest camper show in your area.
Go there thinking I'll trade my stuff for something new.
Then take a good look at the crap that they are selling, and that's all you need.
You will leave the show wanting to go work on your own conversion doing it your own way, which is better than anything you just saw guaranteed.
;D
Quote from: jjrbus on July 25, 2006, 06:27:38 PM
You are in the early stages of your conversion, you still do not have a lot of time or money in it. Is it really worth it? How much time and money do you want to put in this thing? Cut your losses and run, sell off what you can and write the rest off as a learning experience.
Or quit your whinning get off your butt and do something, even if it is wrong!
HTH Jim
I've spent well over $50k to date. It took a fair amount of money to buy the shell and get it totally road worthy. I also have lots of parts in the garage bought off Ebay and such, plus windows on order. I figure I can do most of the rest for just over $6k unless something major comes up.
I'm not giving up, just discouraged right now. I just spent an hour or so ripping up flooring and such in the bus.
Brian Elfert
Brian,
It took me 9 months from the day I baught the bus to the first weekend trip, Now that is with the budget well planned ahead of time and the help lined up....
And you can't do it yourself thats for sure.. I know what you feel being in that position. And now I'm still finishing it....
I set a realistic goal, [maybe too much in too little time] and that goal was to make reservations at a campground on a date that was in my mind.
I put alot of preassure on myself but, it worked out. Without that goal, I would of had time to dwell on the negitive. LOL I made the 1st trip on time!
Good Luck!
Nick-
Quote from: belfert on July 25, 2006, 04:38:57 PM
My bus project is so far behind schedule that I'm finding no motivation to go out and work on it. I get depressed seeing how far behind I am.
Brian, I see your problem....using the word "Schedule" is a big mistake. You're not "behind"...you only think you're behind. You may not realize it, but you might be ahead?? You got a lot done already...especially with the engine/heating/bus work that's been done.
Make a small, easily modified list of things that are absolutely necessary to get the coach completed enough to safely drive and "steel tent" in. And stick with those. Starting all sorts of major modifications such as the flooring and skinning the sides at once is overwhelming. Most converters that do those sorts of things have helpers (often employees??), or farm it. And then there are those fortunate few that are retired and can work full-time on their buses. I farmed my caps, AC frames, and skinning sides.
I spent 3 years working on an easy conversion before spending the first night in it. I wasn't even sure it'd still get around the block without something failing...but, it did...and has been a pleasure to use the last two years. I've been converting away for five years, still isn't finished, but totally useable. I'll get too it one day!
As for hauling items, get one of the small 6X10' cheapo mesh floored trailers that every one sells for $400 bucks...Tractor Supply, Northern Tools, etc. Any car or whatever will pull one...then all you need is rain free weather to move all the material you wish...by yourself. Don't buy a 4X8' trailer...plywood will be damaged on the ends when transporting.
Gotta view these bus things as more a "habit"...a bad habit, but a habit. The only rule is to move as far as you can on whatever you're working on, make a list of what additional materials are needed, and get'em, or keep the list and work on something else. Then smaller projects will get completed in an efficient manner. More "planning," no "scheduling"...cannot schedule a bus conversion anyway. After you've done a couple maybe, but not the first conversion effort.
Just don't want to get too many major items going at once. Another thing, be sure that whatever major mods you make are needed...lots of things will work just fine as they are. If you're a perfectionist...well, hope you're not.
Planning is good...scheduling is BAD....plan, but don't put a time-line on the project. Unmet time lines cause great depression.
As the bite-sized projects get completed, you'll find your enthusiasm will increase. I garuntee!
You got a much nicer shell than most of us...big ol motor...man, I got bus envy again! I remember when you bought the coach...interesting ride back home!
Good Luck, JR
Now get back to work! ;)
Brian, I too have had some down time lately due to un-forseen circumstances in my life and it has kept my mind a little fuzzy most of the time. I'm not discouraged about my bus. I just can't seem to get motivated anymore. It's a long sad story!
Anyway, if your anywhere near Central Florida maybe I could lend you a hand to get going on some small projects and that would help me to get motivated once again. Kind of like helping each other, you might say!
Sometimes when I visit an RV dealer and look at the new coaches, I get jealous and hurry right back home and start working on mine again. Maybe I need to practice what I preach pretty soon but my offer still stands. I would be willing to help you on some stuff if your near by. Not looking for anything in return. Just looking for a change of pace, I guess!
Ace
Ants. The 'lil peckers move mountains, one grain of sand at a time. Though I hate them in my kitchen, I marvel at how they work.
And I model my bus work after them. One grain of sand at a time...
So I made a promise with myself that every day I take a walk to the bus and do at least ONE thing. It doesn't matter if it's big or little... some days I only pick up a piece of junk off the floor and toss it in the trash... other days I get into it seriously and hours later find that a BIG project is now done. But the key, at least with me, is at least one thing every day.
Most of the time my intention is to only do one little thing, and I find myself getting in to it, and by the end of the day a lot's been done. That's the beauty of it, just start and the rest will take care of itself.
ANTS, yup they definitely got something right....
:)
See what I told you in my previous post Brian, there is many of the regulars on this bb'd that are concerned about raising your moral to continue and that they too have been where you are. Do one project complete at at time, remember also, I have sat in my bus maybe 20 times in 4 years, just to sit in the driver seat and I found stuff I want to change, so I don't do that anymore. But I have no intention to give up unless my health slips away.
Hang in there buddy, you brought a lot of memeories back to us also but now lets continue on and make what you are going through just that, a memory to pass on to another newbie like 17 of us that posted so far to help you out.
Good luck, send me your address, I will send you proof of what I have done in 4 years, FREE, just to help you see what a bad situation can really make you feel like, but now my buses name, (Rustless Money Pit) just rings a bell to all when I post here and not many really know my name but they do my bus. The CD I will send will have 4 years of just being on your hands and knees most of that time replacing framing. Talk about overwhelmed!!! Been there buddy. Send address to (busconverter101@aol.com).
Good Luck Brian,
Gary
If you haven't already done it, make a list of things you want to do and put it in the order you want it done it. Then look only at one thing at a time, and cross it off. I thought I could be camping in 9 months and it took 3.25 years. Things like wives, kids, and a full time job get in the way of doing all that work. Plus the time it takes to figure everything out, get the materials, and clean up take up more than 50% of your time. You're not a factory where all the parts are sitting there and they all fit the first time.
While doing stuff here in Florida where it never cools down it seems I found the best way
to work. Cheesy at best and looks like crap but it works.
Stick the roof airs on, run some romex and hold it up with bungee cords.
Tape or drape some plastic over the open sides. Plug in a 20 inch window fan
to move the air around.
The best Tarps that I have found that hold up and work to reflect heat away are the silver
ones. They are silver on one side and black on the other. Just put the silver side out.
If you already have some sheet foam like R-Max you can sacrifice a sheet or two to make
plugs to keep the heat out and the cool in.
I noticed that you have no trailer, truck or utility vehicle.... Baaaad Boy....
I found a trailer frame and made it usable on my first conversion. Small trailer hitch and
a dodge caravan to tow it. A trailer is an essential tool. Find a cheap one at least 4X8 or so
no matter whether it's a flatbed or whatever. You will need it and it will come in very handy.
I even bought a 35 foot FLX metro transit bus that ran and used it as a mobile workshop, parts hauler
,trailer puller, truck, storage and all that stuff. Just ripped the seats out and loaded it up. The neat part
was that the 35 foot takes up two parking spaces. I went lots of places for parts and supplies. The nice
part is that you don't have to unload it until you are using the materials on the other bus project.
It was great for going and picking up those 24 foot lengths of steel tube and plywood
and when I was done with it I sold it at a profit after using it for 2 years. I even attended
a couple of rallies in it by adding a porta-pottie, portable stove, fridge and some furniture.
Don't be discouraged... Slap some stuff on the sides and get on the road. The only person that matters
is you. My MC9 still looks like junk both inside and outside, But its functional junk. The pretty stuff I figure
will happen someday and I am not going to kill myself worrying over it. ( Too HOT for that !! )
Dave.....
Quote from: DrDave-Reloaded on July 26, 2006, 08:19:53 AM
I noticed that you have no trailer, truck or utility vehicle.... Baaaad Boy....
I have a real nice trailer, just nothing to tow it with until the bus is driveable again. A VW Golf can only tow 1,500 lbs max and I'm not going to put a hitch on it anyhow.
Once the bus is enclosed and driveable again, I can either take it to the store or use it to tow the trailer to the store.
Brian Elfert
Brian,
I don't mean to sound harsh, but it sounds like you're making things hard on yourself. You're going to pretty much HAVE to have a way to transport materials. Using the bus isn't all that practical, as you'll often have it in a situation where you'd prefer to not have to drive it. Having to secure everything inside so you can get materials will take lots of extra time. Maybe you can pick up a cheap van or larger car (or an old gas hog station wagon) to carry stuff and/or tow the trailer. Another option is to find a friend with a truck or a hitch on a car. ;)
I know what you mean about motivation though. I had to install an A/C last year so I could work on my MC-8. It wore me out just getting the tools ready to work on it. It was SO hot inside... at least once it was 106. I opened windows, put in big fans, put a fan on the roof over the hatch to suck out heat, etc which cooled it down to about 95. That one Carrier 15k HP works hard to cool it down when it's that hot, but it will in a couple of hours. That made it a lot more enjoyable to work on. Going along with what the others have said, use it. I haven't driven mine since I bought it, but we do hang out in it a lot. I have a satellite radio receiver in it, my wi-fi signal is ok in there so I can use my notebook, and the small 'fridge is full of water, soft drinks, and beer. A few folding chairs provide seating. The point is, it is enjoyable now. Friends will often come over to visit. Many times, they'll get interested in some aspect of it and want to help out a bit, which is great.
When I get overwhelmed with the bus, I'll go out and clean and organize it. I used to stress a lot about how long it's taking and that I missed a 'deadline' of Memorial Day. That's the wrong way to think about it. I bought it to enjoy. I'd rather be enjoying it on the road, but that's not an option quite yet. If it gets to the point of making one stressed, that's sort of defeating the purpose! Good luck with it.
David
Brian,
Remember this is supposed to be a hobby, something you enjoy doing in your spare time. I've personally burnt myself out on my project in the past and had to take a couple of months off. I allow myself to take time off from the project because I eventually end up with the desire to work on it. Once that happens it is enjoyable again. Sometimes you have to force yourself to complete a project so you can use the bus, but don't forget to keep in mind the point that the experience is supposed to be fun. As others have said, take a few moments to figure out what *MUST* be done and then get it done. Once that is done take a break and you will find in time you will want to get back on the project and it will be fun again.
Quote from: belfert on July 25, 2006, 05:27:01 PM
I have 6 to 8 guys planning on this trip. Brian Elfert
Brian get these guys to pitch in and help! Why should you be out $ 60,000 and all the labor if these guys are going to enjoy the use of it too! The least they can do is pitch in and just be holders and gofers, if nothing else after all yer the one who's dumping a fortune of cash into a BUS for the convience of all ! I say if they aren't willing to help get some basic stuff that's needed done screw 'em rent ya a van and go it alone on this special trip and then get back to work on her when you get home! If they want to reap the rewards they need to at least be willing to sacarfice some blod sweat and beers for the project as you've already took up the task of providing everything else! I don't mean to sound harsh but stop and look back from the day you started researching this project til today how much support, help, $, or any other contributions have any of the others made toward this goal of making this a reality for all to enjoy? Why should you be the only one who does it all ? If these guys are really friends, and care at all they'll find a way to work it into their schedule to help out someway or another, even if it's only to be there and hand you tools, materials or just a cold beer at the right moment! Just my 2 cents worth! BK ;D
Quote from: Brian Diehl on July 26, 2006, 10:10:54 AM
Brian,
Remember this is supposed to be a hobby, something you enjoy doing in your spare time. I've personally burnt myself out on my project in the past and had to take a couple of months off. I allow myself to take time off from the project because I eventually end up with the desire to work on it.
I never intended this to be a hobby. I needed a replacement RV that met my needs. No off the lot class A has enough bunks and is built the way I want it. I should have bought the Class C on a truck chassis that I saw this winter instead of the bus, but I thought the bus would be less money. The class C was a 2004 with a 450 HP motorhome and an auto tranny, plus it had bunks instead of a bedroom.
I just way underestimated how long things would take. The mechanical stuff took an extra month because parts are hard to get for a Dina.
I only have two months to get the sides paneled, windows installed, A/C and generator installed, plus a working toilet. I figure paneling the sides will take a month at the rate things are going.
Brian Elfert
Quote from: Busted Knuckle on July 26, 2006, 10:19:48 AM
Quote from: belfert on July 25, 2006, 05:27:01 PM
I have 6 to 8 guys planning on this trip. Brian Elfert
Brian get these guys to pitch in and help! Why should you be out $ 60,000 and all the labor if these guys are going to enjoy the use of it too! The least they can do is pitch in and just be holders and gofers, if nothing else after all yer the one who's dumping a fortune of cash into a BUS for the
One guy has helped me a great deal, but now he has a new job and works weekends. Most of the rest of my friends live 250 miles away so they can't help with today's fuel prices and such. (On trips, they get picked up along the way.)
My one friend initially wanted to do a old junker school bus, but it turned out that he couldn't afford even that. I didn't want to put time and money into an old junker that might not make it 4,000 miles.
Brian Elfert
This forum should be manadatory reading for anyone contemplating doing a conversion.
I've been itching to do one for years, and thought I was ready. I have the room, I have most of the abilities and I have a shop on my premesis (wood and metal woorking).
After reading the posts here however, I am rethinking the whole thing. I see that the "motivation" is a recurring threme. I already work two jobs and am remodelling my house.
I am now going to shift gears, so to speak, and look for a finished conversion, extra money no doubt, but more realistic in my case.
A thought for you guys as to the "service vehicle". I bought a military surplus 6X6, they have a telve foot bed, will haul a ton (actually 5 tons over the road), use it to jump 24V systems, even move/tow a bus short distances, and the best part was I got it for just over 400 bucks and drove it home.
an example perhaps...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1982-MCI-9-Bus-Conversion_W0QQitemZ190010800723QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6728QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I really wonder how many more of you there are out there.
I have been following the boards for several years and a lot of members have just dropped out of sight. We know they were not finished with their conversion but they just quit posting. I strongly suspect that they just gave up but were unable to come on the board and admit that they were quitting or were just burnt out on the project or it was too big or whatever the reason. It would be extremely difficult to do.
Richard
Quote from: belfert on July 26, 2006, 10:32:29 AM
Quote from: Brian Diehl on July 26, 2006, 10:10:54 AM
Brian,
Remember this is supposed to be a hobby, something you enjoy doing in your spare time. I've personally burnt myself out on my project in the past and had to take a couple of months off. I allow myself to take time off from the project because I eventually end up with the desire to work on it.
I never intended this to be a hobby. I needed a replacement RV that met my needs. No off the lot class A has enough bunks and is built the way I want it. I should have bought the Class C on a truck chassis that I saw this winter instead of the bus, but I thought the bus would be less money. The class C was a 2004 with a 450 HP motorhome and an auto tranny, plus it had bunks instead of a bedroom.
I just way underestimated how long things would take. The mechanical stuff took an extra month because parts are hard to get for a Dina.
I only have two months to get the sides paneled, windows installed, A/C and generator installed, plus a working toilet. I figure paneling the sides will take a month at the rate things are going.
Brian Elfert
When I bought my GM 4106, I thought I would have it done, and ready to go in a matter of months. The Wife and I planned to complete the project in 5 years, to have it TOTALY finished. There have been many setbacks, and now I have had the bus for 10 years, and we are still working on it.
When we bought it, we thought we could start on the conversion, and that would be the end. HA !!!
We worked on it for 2 years, and than I just stoped. Lost interest, I guess. Than I changed jobs, and concentrating on the job, I didn't have time to give to the bus. By now, I had found a rod was bent, in the engine, so I felt it was time to do an in frame overhaul. After getting the engine torn down, I never touched it for 5 years. I never gave up. Now 10 years later, the bus is about 3/4 done, and now we have another set back. I got run over by a farm tractor, and now have a hard time walking, so we had to move from our home, in Florida, to Mizzery, I mean Missouri. ( Please don't ask why).
I can still drive it, so we are in the process of finishing. It will never be finished, But, I will use it. and we WILL have fun. I will not give up. It is kind of a joke in our family.
Don't give up, just put it on the back burner for a while, than go back stronger than you were.
This is not a job for a wimp !!!!!!
My 2 cents
Steve ;D
Quote from: DrivingMissLazy on July 26, 2006, 12:06:18 PM
I really wonder how many more of you there are out there.
I have been following the boards for several years and a lot of members have just dropped out of sight. We know they were not finished with their conversion but they just quit posting. I strongly suspect that they just gave up but were unable to come on the board and admit that they were quitting or were just burnt out on the project or it was too big or whatever the reason. It would be extremely difficult to do.
Richard
I'm one of them! We just bought a Vogue Motor home because I just didn't have it in me to get back out there. In my case, the bus has languished for almost five years with little done to it. I'm still trying to figure if I'll ever get back to it. It's just taking up space in the shop but not really costing me anything so, we'll see.
In my case, I'm pretty much working alone, kind of isolated out in the country and my wife would love to go camping in it but has no interest in working on it.
A few months ago I looked at a conversion for sale in Orlando and there were four or five buddies all working on each other's busses and keeping the juices flowing. That seems like it would be a great motivator if your lucky enough to have real (not virtual) bussing buddies.
Don't get me wrong, all of you "virtual buddies" are a great help.
Len
Hang in there Brian.... I had to force myself to "get-'er-done"... as Nick would say!!! I had no realistic idea as to how big of a project that converting a bus would be and how expensive....dam!! I had the money but I am self employed and not retired. I started working from 6 am to 3 pm on my business and from 4pm to 10pm every weekday and from 8 am to 6pm on the weekends ...I did this for 2 yrs without a break. The first year I got the bus stripped, raised the roof 8", new floor, rewired for 12V system, new dash, tilt telescopic steering, skin sides, RV windows and caps...as well as a new silver 8V92TA and go through the mech. At the end of the first year I had a steel tent. The second year I did the interior and house systems .. and I was 90% done in 2 yrs to the week of when I bought the bus.
I was the same as you Brian...this was not a hobby I wanted to get it done as fast as I could and as nice as I could (if I didn't, I might be looking for a new wife) I found a local body guy that was willing to work for cash 2 nights during the week (from 7pm to 10 pm) and work all day Saturday (8am to 6pm), this speeded the process up considerable. On the interior I hired a cabinetmaker to make the cabinets and install them. I did all the work on the walls, dropped ceiling, wiring etc.
I guess what I am saying is, I had to force myself to work these kind of hours to get the job done. It was rewarding, frustrating, depressing, exhilarating and a joy now that it's 90% done and it will remain 90% done for a couple of years ...I need the time away from the conversion work and just get and enjoy it for awhile.
So hang in there Brian ... and keep your schedules flexible and if you really want to "get-er-done" you will find a way.
My pride and joy if you haven't seen it
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=73.90
Ron
My dad did come over this evening and we got one more panel installed today. Only 11 more to go. My goal is to do three more on Saturday if we can stand the heat that long. I don't know if I can get help Sunday or not yet.
Brian Elfert
Please feel free to delete this post - but IMHO this thread needs to be part of the "get started" info - it's probably the most cathartic thread I've ever read - it's kinda definitive of a whole group of people - I'm utterly impressed - Thanks for sharing guys/gals -
Ron, I suspect that if you had put the time in working at your business, instead of working on the bus, you could have purchased a conversion already completed and been money ahead. Also you could have been using it for the two or three years time it took to get yours ready to use.
The reason I say this is that is exactly the route I took. I looked for a couple of years until I found a conversion that was already done and close to what my wife and I wanted. I then purchased it using my home as collateral for the loan. I then put in more hours at work to pay the payments and still had time to travel a lot.
Just another way to get er done!
Richard
Quote from: prevost82 on July 26, 2006, 07:46:18 PM
Hang in there Brian.... I had to force myself to "get-'er-done"... as Nick would say!!! I had no realistic idea as to how big of a project that converting a bus would be and how expensive....dam!! I had the money but I am self employed and not retired. I started working from 6 am to 3 pm on my business and from 4pm to 10pm every weekday and from 8 am to 6pm on the weekends ...I did this for 2 yrs without a break. The first year I got the bus stripped, raised the roof 8", new floor, rewired for 12V system, new dash, tilt telescopic steering, skin sides, RV windows and caps...as well as a new silver 8V92TA and go through the mech. At the end of the first year I had a steel tent. The second year I did the interior and house systems .. and I was 90% done in 2 yrs to the week of when I bought the bus.
I was the same as you Brian...this was not a hobby I wanted to get it done as fast as I could and as nice as I could (if I didn't, I might be looking for a new wife) I found a local body guy that was willing to work for cash 2 nights during the week (from 7pm to 10 pm) and work all day Saturday (8am to 6pm), this speeded the process up considerable. On the interior I hired a cabinetmaker to make the cabinets and install them. I did all the work on the walls, dropped ceiling, wiring etc.
I guess what I am saying is, I had to force myself to work these kind of hours to get the job done. It was rewarding, frustrating, depressing, exhilarating and a joy now that it's 90% done and it will remain 90% done for a couple of years ...I need the time away from the conversion work and just get and enjoy it for awhile.
So hang in there Brian ... and keep your schedules flexible and if you really want to "get-er-done" you will find a way.
My pride and joy if you haven't seen it
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=73.90
Ron
Don't know about you guys, but I'm motivated once again !!! Reading all the suggestions and personal stories has me back "up" for another swing at it.
Apparently we all get down at times over this bus conversion fetish. Knowing that I'm not alone in this soup, is in itself, rather uplifting. Misery loves company? Whatever ... ;D
We all have slightly different stories of how we got to this point, but in composite, I see we are all soooo ... much alike. I suppose in a perfect world we would all live on the same city block, thus be able to help each other out in times of stress. This board is the next best thing.
Out I go to do something on the bus ... anything ... just so I can stand back and marvel at how insanely talented I am. ::)
Nah.. I think that IF we all lived too close to each other there would be running gun battles, turf wars
and lots of fighting going on all the time over who did it their way and who did it better.....
It's nice to visit and move on. Everyone would be upset for some silly reason over some silliness....
Bus Nuts are a very wierd and independent lot. Too much testosterone in one place for very long is
not a good thing... Usually.... ;D
Richard ...you are probably right. But the thing is, we as humans like to fool ourselves into thinking that it won't cost as much or take as long ...we probably all do it and that's the trap. By the time we realize that it's going take way more of time & money than we thought, we have way to much into it to back out and quit. I for one am not a quitter.
Ron
Motivation is not always the problem. Sometimes the desire to get it done doesn't line up with time constraints and financial concerns. I found myself with more desire and motivation than time and money. When the money ran short, I would just go out and sit on the bus, and plan what I would do with the next 2 or three thousand dollars my wife would alot me!
I'm with Richard. My next one will be complete, and will only need me to update the interior or slap a little paint. No more bare bones, start from scratch with nothing but a shell for me. I'm not that good of a mechanic/engineer/carpenter like most folks on this board. But I can sling the hell out of a paint brush!
Jimmy ::)
Quote from: prevost82 on July 27, 2006, 09:59:22 AM
Richard ...you are probably right. But the thing is, we as humans like to fool ourselves into thinking that it won't cost as much or take as long ...we probably all do it and that's the trap. By the time we realize that it's going take way more of time & money than we thought, we have way to much into it to back out and quit. I for one am not a quitter.
Ron
Also, it's easier to come up with a little money now and then than a boat load all at once. If a conversion takes 50K over 5 years, that's easier than 50K all at once, unless you finance. Personally, I don't finance depreaciating assets. That means cars, buses, trucks, boats...Pretty much everything but real estate. If I can't pay cash then I can't afford it. Apply that to a bus conversion....I can't afford a finished bus because I can't lay my hands on that much cash, but I can lay my hands a few grand every now and then to put into the conversion. I use 50K as a nice round figure, but when I was looking I didn't see anything under 100K that didn't need to be completely redone, and if I'm going that far, I'll buy a shell and start from scratch.
Ross
"Ron, I suspect that if you had put the time in working at your business, instead of working on the bus, you could have purchased a conversion already completed and been money ahead. Also you could have been using it for the two or three years time it took to get yours ready to use."
My Dad always says stuff like that, and it's almost certainly true, but to my mind at least it completely misses the point.
These projects are about the journey as well as the destination - buying a completed project from someone else may be financially more sensible, but when it come to the important things in life (inner-satisfaction, self-belief, personal achievement etc) it simply cannot compare with the option of taking on a big task, doing all the work yourself and finally being able to stand back from the end result and say 'that's mine!'
These are BIG projects though - probably second only to building you own house. 98% of people simply don't have the vision or application (or time, space, skills), to see a project like this to fruition. I would bet every person on this forum that has successfully completed such a project had previously done similar but smaller projects (restoring cars etc), and so had an inkling at least of what was likely to be involved. Aside from things like health or family proplems, projects usually fail either because their owners were wearing the rose-tinted spectacles of inexperience, or because they rushed into the project on a whim (a whim in this case being anything less than two years of research and planning).
For people who work for themselves (like me - www.magazineexchange.co.uk), they opportunity-cost of your time can make the project VERY expensive - you just have to work out how much time / money you can justify spending. Personally I don't use the highly structured, time-managed approach mentined above as, to me, it removes the fun and makes your hobby seem too much like work.
The various motivational tips and techniques mentioned above are all good - the only thing I would add is to keep a photo-albumn of snaps taken during the project (you're probably doing that anyway). When depression begins to set in, get the albumn off the shelf one evening and look through it. I guarentee you will be amazed when you realise how much you have already acheived and how far you have come, and that will motivate you to take the next step on the journey
Jeremy
Brian - your first mistake is having a "schedule". Life intervenes - there's always something that happens that delays schedules. Eddie and I bought the bus 4 years ago - we were going to have it completed in 1 year - and I won't tell you how much he said the conversion would cost - but trust me we are double that right now and not finished. Unfortunately, family health issues, and my own health issues prohibited us from completing it in one year. We also own a home and there always seems to be something breaking or needing updating which takes time away from working on the bus. When he originally brought it home there was a lot of work to be done before we could even begin the build. We took out the windows, he had welding to do because of structural problems, then he ripped out the floor and insulated and plywooded the whole thing. When the actual room building began, that's when I saw his vision. (We actually decided on a floor plan and have stuck with it.) It motivated me. I started helping installing flooring, staining and varnishing the wood, etc., etc. But I'm also a full-time student, and so when I have to study for a test, I have to study for a test, and the bus has to wait. Last week Eddie and our son (9 yrs. old) went to Maine to get some paint work done on the bus. (I had to go to school!) They stayed in the bus - now all he wants to do is use the bus - while all I want to do is finish the bus. Ironic, isn't it? By the way - for all of you guys who bought a sticks and staples to go camping in while working on your bus - I've been trying to sell mine so we can invest the money in our bus. Neither one of us has any desire to use the thing since partially done, we think our bus is so much nicer!! It drives nicer, doesn't sway around, is more comfortable to stay in, and feels safer overall. So from a chic who's cracking the whip on her husband to get our bus done - first off, don't set schedules, they don't work. Second off, it's supposed to be an enjoyable experience to make your bus - your bus - not what some big production company makes an RV - this is a reflection of you. Relax - life always throws you curves - nothing is ever done when you want, or costs what you want - that's life. So just try to enjoy it. :D ;) Sue-NJ
Brian,
Well, I guess I'll chime in with my $.02 worth... Just finished skinning my sides in last weekend and got my RV windows installed. It makes a BIG difference, feels & looks like a motorhome now - my wife and I just stand there in the drive and stare at our creation! ;D Get those sides finished and you will renew your motivation, I did and I've been at this for 10 mo and like all the other posters said probably years to go. I too can get overwhelmed but not 'blue tarping' the coach and having to close the windows when it rains is a joy and gives you some sense of completion in the big picture. Hang in there, it gets better. :)
Kurt
Quote from: Jeremy on July 27, 2006, 11:41:43 AM
<snip>
These projects are about the journey as well as the destination - buying a completed project from someone else may be financially more sensible, but when it come to the important things in life (inner-satisfaction, self-belief, personal achievement etc) it simply cannot compare with the option of taking on a big task, doing all the work yourself and finally being able to stand back from the end result and say 'that's mine!'
<snip>
Exactly right Jeremy. I find it relaxing and challenging at the same time. There are times when I don't want to tackle the next step or am impatient to get it done, but most of the time it is the journey, the chance to create, and the chance to learn new skills or resurrect old ones that makes it fun.
Craig - MC7 Oregon