Just wondering what are some common problems with these. Anything that i should check fix or replace?
Thanks-Josh
The main problems with an '04 are related to the age of the bus and
lack of maintenance. My suggestion would be to start at the front bumper
and work your way to the back bumper. Lube, tighten and adjust, then check
all electrical and air connection you can find. Takes time and effort but it
will be worth every minute you spend.
Blessings,
David
Overly stiff clutch, hard shifting or clashing of gears, this is often caused by work shift, clutch linkage or improper adjustment.
Air leaks, suspension not inflating evenly or too slow, rotted air bags. Corroded electrical wiring terminals.
Hard starting in cold weather, engine oil leaks, air compressor governor failure, rusted out mufflers, dragging bottom over rocks & etc, radiator shutters not working or missing, rubber baggage door hinges rotting off, engine compartment door too heavy (Needs air struts), hard or sloppy steering (Needs adjusting and greasing).
Since it is almost all Al structure body corrosion has not been a problem.
As you may have guessed, this is a list of the problems I've had with mine in four years!!
When it was built, the 4104 was pretty damn close to perfection. It would probably be a million dollar bus if they tried to build one today to the same standards.
I don't know much about the 4104 but a friend of mine has one with DDEC 330 hp in line 6-71 he did a complete from the wheels up on his with all new wiring one sweet bus and a hot rod with good fuel mileage.
Not to make the GM guys mad but I think it was the best looking bus GM ever made
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Dallas I rode in 4103 that Gaylon Rogers has do they all ride ruff almost like they have leaf springs and not air bags ?
good luck
Never mind Dallas he phoned and told me they do have leaf springs never to old to learn something new.
good luck
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PD-4104 There were 5065 PD-4104 made by GMC Truck and Coach from 1953 through 1960.
The biggest buyer was Greyhound and Trailways.
Lot's of smaller carriers had PD-4104's and the 04's were a very popular bus.
Easy maintenance and low up keep.
Lot's of parts are interchangeable with later model GMC and MCI coaches.
The 1st bus that I ever owned was a PD-4104 and I sure do miss it at times.
I now own a P8M4905A.
The front windshields are interchangeable left and right and are the same windshield for the rest of the later GMC intercity coaches.
The old Spicer Transmission is a easy transmission to learn how to shift compaired to the later style Spicer transmissions.
As for a starter bus you could not as for a better coach than a PD4104.
They were a good old bus and still are.
jlv
Biggest problem with the '04 is it's the Best Bus Ever and everyone else on this board without one refuses to admit it. ;D
Nice bus, but lacks power.
I do like the look but the damn wheel wells make it difficult to arrange the floor plan other than the standard fore and aft bed and sofa behind the driver. And as with all GM's the curvature of the body can drive you nuts trying to make things fit.
Still great looking.
Bill
The curved roof is what makes old GM buses classy and different, who wants a square bus body?
As much as I love my 4104 I will never get over not getting a 3751/4151, no other bus is that classy. It even has a column shift lever!! And the rear end is a piece of art all by itself.
I do like the 4103 a lot , it is very classy, but the 3751/4151 has them all beat.
After owning my 4104 four years I can't say I wouldn't welcome leaf springs!!!
One bad problem they have is the fan hub that is attached to both the crankshaft and the rad fan, it has a vulcanised rubber spacer. that stops any vibration from the fan being transferd to the crankshaft. The only problem is if the vulcanised part comes loose it allows the fan to spin right into the radiator. I know though experience.
I have would re comend a regular check of this part and buying a spare before you need it,
John
Ya i think i read somewhere about the fan hub falling apart. Now is this just a problem in these coaches or on others as well? Im thinking of building my own version using polyurethane.
Why do guys use that setup my buddy that has a DDEC 6-71 runs his fan from 4 belts, the fan is mounted on pillar block bearing with a fan clutch the belt drive from the engine goes to a shaft and 2 pillar blocks with another pulley and belts then back to the fan.
He saw the hook up on another 4104 and liked it
Looks pretty easy to me.
good luck
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Only Dallas would call a 4104 "new-fangled" ;D
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sorry luvrbus its hard to understand your post. I think i understand what you mean but could you post some pics? That would be great, Thanks-Josh
The '04 doesn't really lack power, it does fine with 235 hp. It was never designed to
run down the road at high speed. With injectors we have and the rear end gearing, we
roll at 65 mph, which in California is 10 mph over the speed limit while towing. We rather
enjoy the view while climbing a mountain grade at 25 mph, you can see details you don't
even notice at 55 or 60. No a problem, though I imagine it is uncommon, there is a battery
cable that runs from the start batteries to the front bulk head of the compartment that housed
the pony engine for the air conditioning when they were so equipped. On our coach some one had
covered the cable stud and it was not identifiable as to its purpose. I stored the tripod for our
satellite antenna on top of our generator. The vibration of travel moved the tripod over against
the stud, wore through the covering and shorted the start batteries and shut the bus down while
were were some distance from home. I disconnected the batteries and checked inside for the
possibility of fire, there was some inside the wall. Fortunately, I opened bathroom cabinet, saw where
the smoke was coming from [there is an opening above where the cable entered the wall]. I used a
Pepsi to put out the fire. A friend brought us cable and terminals and we made repairs and 2977 is
hale and hearty one again. The moral is: Check everything and be very careful when storing things
in somewhat unfamiliar territory.
Blessing,
David
Nobody mentioned this? I must be mistaken but I will say it anyway: The 4104 has a muffler "behind" the engine and up close to the floor. It is stood on end and the top surface collects water and dirt. That muffler rusts through and lets exhaust gasses vent straight up. the interior wood floor is above the muffler. 4104 often die in flames started by a bad muffler. So there, I displayed my ignorance again....I dunno. If I am not mistaken and he didn't check and it burned down I would feel a lot worse than "stupid".
Good luck,
John
The biggest problem I have with m 04 is it wants to go. It sits up behind the house calling. Lets go lets go all day long, Just have trouble with the boss lately, after the last trip.
uncle ned
Quote from: uncle ned on November 25, 2009, 08:16:36 AM
The biggest problem I have with m 04 is it wants to go. It sits up behind the house calling. Lets go lets go all day long, Just have trouble with the boss lately, after the last trip.
uncle ned
Uncle Ned speaking of last trip. How are you doing? I been meaning to call and check on you, but I know I-40 is closed thru the gorge, (something abouta souped up 4104 vibrating the moutains as it went thru! LOL! ;D)
so I didn't know if the phone would still work thru there! :D
;D BK ;D
Hey thanks guys. There is alot of good information and i will check it all. Thank you for the replies.
The original 4104 muffler doe have a raised flange on the end which traps junk and makes it rust out.
I solved this problem by getting smaller smooth end mufflers from JCW and welding on the necessary fittings.
Being smaller makes them much easier to install and the cost was less than half the original poorly designed ones.
John ed.
I have three 4104,s and have owned one of them for over 25 years. I have met 50 plus 04 owners never ever have I heard of any rear fires? Please fill me in on what you know?
John
Just a personal observation, but the biggest issue I have seen that 4104's all have is the steering wheel nut. Not the one that holds it on but the one that holds on to it. ;D :D
Come to think of it, I've observed this issue on MCI's and Eagles too. Prevost's steering wheels I have seen were not being held on to but i observed sign language that I was #1. :D
Most of the steering wheel nuts came from hanging around with senic- cruiser nuts.
ned
Quote from: uncle ned on November 25, 2009, 05:40:41 PM
Most of the steering wheel nuts came from hanging around with senic- cruiser nuts.
ned
Uncle Ned,
you still haven't answered my question! Don't make me call Wilma, and you know I got the #! ;D
;D BK ;D
BJ I believe your week was just about as bad as the last of my trip to Tenn.
I am doing great finally.
uncle ned
I WILL TRY AGAIN
John ed.
I have three 4104,s and have owned one of them for over 25 years. I have met 50 plus 04 owners never ever have I heard of any rear fires? Please fill me in on what you know?
John
"I do like the look but the damn wheel wells make it difficult to arrange the floor plan other than the standard fore and aft bed and sofa behind the driver"
How do the wheel wells on a 4104 differ from other buses. Are they deeper, wider etc?
Fred. Mc
I believe that some buses have the floor at a level such that there are no interior wheel wells, the floor is entirely flat.
Brian
Quote from: Fred Mc on November 27, 2009, 09:05:54 PM
"I do like the look but the damn wheel wells make it difficult to arrange the floor plan other than the standard fore and aft bed and sofa behind the driver"
How do the wheel wells on a 4104 differ from other buses. Are they deeper, wider etc?
Fred. Mc
On mine, I reduced the right front wheelwell to about 2" with no problem. Once the bus is resting on the bumpers, you shouldn't need more than an inch or so. I did that assuming that the tires may get a little bigger at speed, not sure if that is really the case.
Quote from: bevans6 on November 28, 2009, 06:09:42 AM
I believe that some buses have the floor at a level such that there are no interior wheel wells, the floor is entirely flat.
Is the MC5C not a flat floor. I thought it was pretty unusual to have a coach bus without a flat floor, but I could be wrong. I know the MCIs from at least the MC8 on forward have flat floors, or at least no wheel wells intruding.
MCI MC5C has a lower profile that the MC8 or MC9, and has the wheel wells protruding about 3" up from the floor. You typically build in a couch or a chair over them. And trip on them in the bedroom in the middle of the night.
Brian
Most of the early intercity coaches had wheel wells inside the coach (4104, 4106, MC-5). These buses had smaller baggage bays, but required less overhead clearance. The newer coaches (MC-8,9, 4107, 4905, etc.) had flat floors allowing taller baggage bays, but required greater overhead clearance. It's all trade-offs. Jack
John,
I have read posts on this problem many times over the years. I never bought a 4104 or 6 and I regret that. They are truly great machines in their own right.
I WILL TRY AGAIN
John ed.
I have three 4104,s and have owned one of them for over 25 years. I have met 50 plus 04 owners never ever have I heard of any rear fires? Please fill me in on what you know?
I wasn't ignoring you buddy. i was just up to other mischief and it kept me from reading the board. I am sorry about it but I have to assure you it will happen again. Use mt EMAIL or phone number for anything you feel is important or even just interesting. I interface with a lot6 of people from this board that way.
The way I read the board, Gus confirmed the problem and also fix. I guess the ones that burned up recently had had new mufflers of the OEM design installed somewhere along the line. Easy to see how that would happen given that the original must ave lasted many years and hundreds of thousands of miles.
I can easily see your interest with you having a personal "fleet" of 4104's. Lucky you! Really, I mean that. I wish I had the room needed to just park three buses....even 35 footers.
There is another problem with the 4104 that I recall. Seems that the OEM brake cans cost many hundreds of dollars because they are no longer common. The fix was to cut all the old brackets out and replace all the mounting so the new cans could be installed. Old cost $300+ as I recall and the new version that is common cost $80. It seemed that the cost differential justified the cost of welding. You heard about that? I could be mistaken.
I will search the forum for muffler threads for you and get back.
Nice to hear from you and learn about your 4104's.
John
John,
It was a short search. About 5 down after searching under "4104+muffler" you get this post from Florida Cliff:
Native Floridian An Endangered Species
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1802
Was This My Idea????
Fire, Brakes and a hell of a scare
« on: July 06, 2006, 10:13:50 PM »
Quote
Hey all,
What a couple of days.
Headed out on the first leg of our trip to Stone Mountain, stopped at a rest area and the parking brakes wouldn't release.
Found out the DD3 that I didn't replace started leaking past the diaphragm and it was enough to not let the pressure build to release the brakes. Luckily I had a decent portable compressor and with it on my shop air input I was on the road.
Another job too take care off when I get home. Don't let it spoil the trip, right.
Stone Mountain was great over the fourth, head out to Cherokee, NC.
A big accident with a two trucks sandwiching a lexus sent us on 76 with many 7-8.5% grades.
Put it in second a climbed fine, though slower than I was used too(my first time in the mountains in the bus)
Coming down a long grade my wife says the bedroom is filling with smoke, after several(long) minutes I am able to find a place to stop.
Find that the decking is on FIRE under the bus by the muffler. I had recently done an on-board fix near the top and the extra pressure from my repair caused a week area in the side to open.
I had just bought a hose hooked to my fresh tank for washing and boy did it come in handy.
We made it down the mountain and into the KOA at Cherokee with only a few minor issues, but at least I am stopped and will survey the repairs needed tomorrow.
I am going to try to temp it somehow to get home and then that &*^%$# muffler is going out of there forever.
Anyway, my blood pressure is almost down to 1000/800, wish me luck and I will be giving NCBob a call for some local parts and pieces procurement on Friday
Cliff
That's two reports of the problem and Cliff would have lost his bus if he hadn't coincidentally installed a connection to his coach water to allow hosing his exterior off. His floor was burning way underneath and under his bed where he couldn't even get at the fire after it burned thru to the bedroom. I hope you can appreciate why I would be concerned that a Newbee be alerted. Can't you? I am really pleased to think that I may have assisted someone as seasoned and experienced as yourself. Really, what an opportunity for me. And I never even came close to owning one and got all my info from those willing to take the time to share. Their motives must have been good as well as generous.
Check your mufflers! Time well spent. If you can jab the top really hard with a no 3 Phillips and it goes thru....then you.....well...you will know. Send Dallas a PM. He must have a ton of experience on these and he has undoubtedly heard it all and done it all.
Good luck and good to hear from you.
John
I believe cliff has a beautiful "tall" 4905
uncle ned
John,
Your 5 minutes google search was a little short, 4104,s never came with DD3 brake cans. You dont know very much about buses so If you need training on how to google search just give me a call i will be happy to help you.
Changing 4104 drive axle brake cans from ICC ( ICC brakes should be changed on a 4104, because if the air pressure drops the ICC brake realises and the bus on a hill rolls) easy fix,change to spring brakes. But if you call $35.00 for spring brake cans expensive then I guess they are. You do have to run an extra air line to the drivers seat but not to bad.
Over the years I have seen many bus fire causalties of all makes and models for all types of reasons.
John
If anyone wants to convert from original to modified mufflers I have numbers and drawings for mine.
Another poster came up with his own mod also but I don't remember exactly what he did. I'm sure it is in the archives.
John 4104s,
You dont know very much about buses so If you need training on how to google search just give me a call i will be happy to help you. I think that that statement is your entire point. You seem worried about whether I know that I am basically ignorant about buses. Your point is poorly made and redundant....I have already admitted that. Many times, in fact. Its my humility, John. That is my most outstanding virtue and the one of which I am most proud.
Instead of running around policing the board for those that know less than you why not add constructive data to what you seem to think is lacking. I don't mind being corrected, really I don't. I profit from that. As to muffs causing bus fires that is a true statement. How many bus Knuts have to chime in with their horror stories for you to get that? Your not wanting it to be true or your not having ever heard of it or your not having ever experienced it or your wanting desperately for me to be wrong changes nothing. Telling the guy that he should change over to spring brakes would have been a nice piece of info for you to share but you held that back.....why? That would have related to his question and been the perfect type of info that Newbee was looking for. Got anything else that even might be constructive? Throw it out there and somebody will help you with the facts even if you got'em all right. Plays well with others? :P
I never Googled a darn thing. I did a search on this board for MUFFLER+4104. I only read down 5 lines or so and I found two Knuts contradicting your "there is no fire hazard" piece of miss information. Can you reference a single Knut that will support your position that no fire hazard exists? But I can't say as I really know from any personal experience. Argue with Gus and the others that contradicted you and let us all profit from the exchange. Even you maybe.
My email and phone number are listed. Use them if you like but I have to caution you...i am a lot more apologetic in person or on a private line. ??? ;D
Be well my friend and I look forward to hearing from you. Hope you see this as constructive.
John
Guys,
I searched 4104+muffler+fire and got a post by Gus on Feb 25, 2009 in a simular post by a newbee asking basically the same questions that this guy did. In it Gus said:Signs of exhaust leaking into the rear of the bus, these mufflers are designed to rust out at the top out of sight. They start very nice fires in the bedroom! Now I am sure that I have heard that before and I think Gus was corect and timely in his advice. Can anybody else contribute info on this problem?....know about it?....know it an urban myth?....think a fire in the bedroom is a good thing?(joke there)
Thanks,
John
JohnEd,
Well said..
If the muffler does not allow fumes/hot gases into the rear of the bus, the exhaust piping connections can, if they dont the exhaust manifold might, all of these components on any bus is good to check.
John