Has anyone used the compact flourscent bulbs as replacements for conventional incandescent bulbs using a MSW inverter? Curious what the results are both initial and long term? John
I haven't done it as I see no reason to convert from DC to AC to run lighting.
Why not just use DC lighting up front if you have a battery to power an inverter?
I think that would make an interesting discussion. Would the energy savings from using compact fluorescent bulbs outweigh the losses of the inverter. Which would provide the most efficient light output per amp hour?
I poked around on Google using the terms "compact fluorescent" and "modified sine" combined into a single search. One of the MSW inverter manufacturers (Samlex) states: If you plan to use these inverters with reactive loads, such as motors and compact fluorescent lights or other ballasted lights, size the inverter for 4 times the continuous watts required. but does not say to avoid CFs.
Another site states that using CF bulbs with a modified sine wave will cause them to hum.
It is also important to note that CF bulbs come with either "core & coil" (magnetic) ballasts, or electronic ballasts. The electronic ballasts make the light "instant on", whereas the other ballasts can take a second or two to come on. The electronic ballast lamps are more expensive, but supposedly these ballasts are better suited to MSW use.
Oh, and it should be noted that CFLs that run off direct current are also available, though harder to find.
I happen to have 8 CFLs connected to 12VDC in my coach. I am still looking for a less expensive way to replace one that gave up the ghost about a year ago. I've temporarily wired in 2 12V trailer lights and have them laying loose in the housing. The CFLs in 12V are available, but very expensive, or so I've found. Hope this helps, Will
Will are the bulbs you looking for about 5inches long and loop back to the base? If so I have a bunch of them..Bob
The ones that run off of 12v dc fail with the entire fixture going out. No very wallet friendly. I installed the regular house units that are 18 inches long. Nice choice of temperature and they last a long long time. Cost $15 each. I run mine off of shore and off of a MSW cheapo 400 watt inverter. My total flo load is 80 watts with everything on. No hum, no whistle and definately NO ECHO. Best lighting move I made. Mine point at the blinds in the window so at night (when you use lights :o ) the light is diffused off of the ven blinds.
Go for it....the watts are very cheap and not attainable in incandesant cause it heats up the bus in the summer.
John
Bob, JohnEd answered for me. The bulbs aren't the problem. When the fixture goes, it goes.... I hadn't thought about swapping it out with a 120V unit and putting a little inverter in line. They have gotten really inexpensive and I know they work good because I use one on my laptop all the time to keep the battery charged when I'm out hunting for a Wifi spot in the toad. ;D Great suggestion, thanks
The reason I asked the initial question is because I have two separate systems. I have 12vdc ceiling flourscent lights and I have normal ac outlets that switch from shore power to inverter automatically when shore power is removed. My desk lamps and end table lamps operate from these outlets as in a normal home. As I already use the inverter for the lamp lights I thought that I could save a little energy by using the cf bulbs in the reading lamps etc. i guess I will try and See what happens. Thanks for all the input. John
What about something like this
http://www.theledlight.com/12volt-led-bulb.html (http://www.theledlight.com/12volt-led-bulb.html)
wont need inverter
Newbee,
I think it is all going to leds....eventually. Their power consumption makes flo look pigish. It is the price that is the problem. Pay a lot of attention to the color temp.
Good luck,
John
I guess I'm having difficulty understanding the comments that state when the bulb goes you have to replace the fixture. That might be the case for some form-factors, but not all. I'm picturing the CFLs with the standard E27 base. Top replace a bulb, you just screw in another CFL. Such as:
http://www.altestore.com/store/Lighting-Fans/Compact-Fluorescent/Compact-Fluorescent-Dc/Compact-Fluorescent-12V-11W-Lamp-Bulb/p1005/ (http://www.altestore.com/store/Lighting-Fans/Compact-Fluorescent/Compact-Fluorescent-Dc/Compact-Fluorescent-12V-11W-Lamp-Bulb/p1005/)
At $15/ bulb, they aren't cheap. But no need to replace the entire fixture.
Newbee: The LEDs are very efficient, but if you want a significant amount of light, you need $everal of them. It is not tough to get 600-700 lumens out of a $15 CFL. To get an equal output from the units shown on the referenced LED website, you are probably going to need five units at a cost over $100.
Quote from: WEC4104 on November 18, 2009, 06:36:45 PM
I guess I'm having difficulty understanding the comments that state when the bulb goes you have to replace the fixture. That might be the case for some form-factors, but not all. I'm picturing the CFLs with the standard E27 base. Top replace a bulb, you just screw in another CFL. Such as:
http://www.altestore.com/store/Lighting-Fans/Compact-Fluorescent/Compact-Fluorescent-Dc/Compact-Fluorescent-12V-11W-Lamp-Bulb/p1005/ (http://www.altestore.com/store/Lighting-Fans/Compact-Fluorescent/Compact-Fluorescent-Dc/Compact-Fluorescent-12V-11W-Lamp-Bulb/p1005/)
At $15/ bulb, they aren't cheap. But no need to replace the entire fixture.
Newbee: The LEDs are very efficient, but if you want a significant amount of light, you need $everal of them. It is not tough to get 600-700 lumens out of a $15 CFL. To get an equal output from the units shown on the referenced LED website, you are probably going to need five units at a cost over $100.
I agree, and I have fluoresnt fixtures in my bus with CFL's in the other fixtures for that very reason. I bought mine converted. I also have more power usage if on the inverter due to the really inefficient part of the inverter at the low watt use.
If I was building a system i would consider the DC lighting with the LED for off gridding. I just googled "LED lights for house" to find that web site. They are pricey, but there is the trade off of batteries and inverter and they come in 24vdc. You could get closer to using solar etc using dc lighting.
I have a few of the small LED's in the house that i found at costco. They are brighter than the CFL's in the same fixture and come on quicker. I try to put them in the light's that get left on too much ;)
Quote from: WEC4104 on November 18, 2009, 06:36:45 PM
I guess I'm having difficulty understanding the comments that state when the bulb goes you have to replace the fixture. That might be the case for some form-factors, but not all. I'm picturing the CFLs with the standard E27 base. Top replace a bulb, you just screw in another CFL. Such as:
My CFls don't use a standard E27 Base. The bulbs are easy to replace, but when the base quits, the entire unit is junk. I'll try and post a picture later to clarify. You have to remember, this unit was built 25 years ago and what was cutting edge then is discontinued for the most part today LOL, Will
PP: It sounds like the style of CFL you might have is the "non-integrated" type which have the ballast separate from the bulb. I guess I have been zeroing in on the integrated types which have the ballast built right into the bulb. The integrated types are desgined to screw into most light fixtures as a replacement for conventional incandescent bulbs. In that case, the cost of the fixture is no different than any regular fixure, and has little chance of "going bad" anyway. Of course the CFLs typically do not work in the dimmable or three-way light fixtures.
My comment about the fixture going out with the bulb pertains ONLY to the 12 volt flo fixtures. I must have thrown away 4 or 5 of those fixtures. Three of the failed bulbs were blackened and didn't work well in a good fixture. I threw those away as I thought that the bulb might have taken out the fixture. The rest had old but good bulbs in them when the fixture failed. None of these were the $30-40 items sold at Camping world. They were smaller and half the price of the spendy ones or less. "I guess I am having difficulty understanding" all of it, as well as you". I have no facts, figures, theories or even a vague hunch. The ones I have bought have had a short life and given that most of the bulbs taken from those fixtures worked, albeit badly in most cases, I have concluded that the fixture was taken out by the bulb failing or aging. Those 12 V items didn't work out well anyway as they have low lumen output. I don't take issue with anything you said....only offering clarification of my prior comments.
Of the 120V fixtures, I have had 2 fail after a few years use. No long as flo goes. I replaced them with fixtures that appear identical. The insides are different. The old ones that failed had transformers inside but the new ones have solid state circuit boards. These fixtures have a bulb that has the same diameter as the common 4 foot bulbs but are shorter. Cheap bulbs....none have failed....cheap fixture, two out of 6 have failed in a few years. Easy fix.
In my house o have replaced everything incondes with CFL's where they will fit. Under cabnets, where CFL's are subject to being bumped....tubes.
You can purchase LED's in any temp you wish and gang them up to get whatever lumen count you like. The common LED's are getting cheap and they have some new generation items that put out huge lumens but they are very spendy and don't last more the 10 or 20,000 hrs. ??? :o ::) ;D ;D ;D
HTH,
John
Removed
Guys with diesel in their veins and 90 wt in their joints, are not going to be affected by a little mercury :D
Sounds like John is also referencing the non-integrated type fixtures where the ballast is part of the fixture (not part of the bulb). Be aware that there are also 12VDC CFLs of the integrated type, with the ballast in the bulb. Some of the have E27 screw in base that every one pictures when they think of a typical incandecent bulb. In this instance there is nothing special about the fixture.
Picture:
http://www.solarpower.org/art17.html (http://www.solarpower.org/art17.html)
YEP!
Interesting that a news story broke today regarding CFLs. The story's main point is that the efficiency of CFLs is overstated because they lose their efficiency at a faster rate during their lifetime. Instead of losing 7% of their light output rating near the end of their life like incandescent bulbs, the CFLs drop of by 22%
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575858,00.html?test=latestnews (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575858,00.html?test=latestnews)